Throating a Browning 1886

[osteodoc08]

I have a Browning 1886 that has absolutely no throat and have issues with OAL with some of my boolits. Where is a good place to send it for throating and possibly CCH. I've used Turnbull in the past but was wondering if there were any other good options.

[NSB]

Every Miroku ever made in 45-70 has no throat. I've had Turnbull do two guns for me in this caliber for CCH and throating. When I asked them how many thou they took out, they replied "it would be easier to state in inches". It was 250/thou to get it to their specs for this caliber. After they worked on it, it shot fantastic and would accept any weight/ogive bullet being loaded. There may be others who do as good a work as Turnbull, I just don't know who they are. I'd stick with what works. NOTE: original specs on this caliber has no call out for a throat worth mentioning. Miroku is making the guns to original specs. Anyone with a reamer and some experience can do this for about a hundred bucks or so. Now the CCH.....no one does it better than Turnbull.

[bigbear]

Please explain to this novice why I would want to alter my Browning 1886 Carbine? If it is made to original spec, why shouldn't I just reload my ammo to fit my rifle instead of altering my rifle. Please be gentle as I am not an experienced cast boo lit user. I just load my ammo so it fits my rifle. Thanks!

[runfiverun]

because the majority of the bullets and boolit molds made won't chamber in your gun.
I have a no longer made 435gr mold that barely squeaks into my 86 or I would have reamed mine long ago.
but it won't chamber the Hornady 300gr rn without some serious case chopping.

you can do the reaming at home.
[iirc] it was RL-69 that done a very good write-up about doing a throating at home with a rented reamer for like 40 bucks.
it was posted here so a search should turn it up.

[NSB]

Yep, what runfiverun said. You simply can't get a LOT of bullets to fit in the gun due to ogive or length (or both). There's absolutely no harm done to ream it and it will then accept just about anything bullet wise you want to shoot out of it. FWIW, they almost all shoot better with heavier bullets. However, if you choose to leave it alone then you can just shoot what fits. Hornady makes LeveRevolutin ammo that will fit, but the brass is made short and is a PITA to use for reloading. As you learn more about this, you'll want to ream the throat....I'm sure of that.

[bigbear]

Well great excuse to go load some ammo for the carbine and see how it goes. If rifle is made to original dimensions as OP said, what bullets were used way back then?

[NSB]

Well great excuse to go load some ammo for the carbine and see how it goes. If rifle is made to original dimensions as OP said, what bullets were used way back then?
It is a great excuse. I've owned two Win/Miroku and three Pedersoli 45-70s and both the Miroku guns wouldn't chamber the shells I loaded for it using most bullets. The Pedersoli would chamber them. The difference? The throat in each gun. It's easy enough to find out what works and what doesn't, just load them and see if they will chamber. If they do...shoot them. The OP is finding out the same thing all other Win/Miroku owners already found out.....the throat is too short. Yes, some bullets will work. No, you can't use what ever you want. Some won't work. Even Hornady's 350g Jacketed won't chamber and they aren't heavy bullets. After throating, they all work.

[bigbear]

I just loaded up some 325gr GC bolts, RCBS 45-300 FNGC old and it cycles through my Browning carbine quite nicely. Bolts seated to cramping cannelure. If it stops raining tomorrow, I try them out.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

MP did a group buy for a hollow base 460-420 designed specifically for tight throated lever actions. The hollow base also helps with tight chambers and large bores.

Not sure where you are located, but if a local guy cannot be found I can only recommend Turnbull based off his reputation.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[telebasher]

Ask Doug Guy, he knows how to throat for auto pistols for sure!

[Chill Wills]

Every Miroku ever made in 45-70 has no throat. I've had Turnbull do two guns for me in this caliber for CCH and throating. When I asked them how many thou they took out, they replied "it would be easier to state in inches". It was 250/thou to get it to their specs for this caliber. After they worked on it, it shot fantastic and would accept any weight/ogive bullet being loaded.

There were a number of Japanese Miroku made Winchester 1886 rifles around our part of the state before the turn of the century. Era 1997 - 1998. :mrgreen: Some were take-down and others the solid frame. All worked well and there wasn't a problem. I was just loading rounds for mine today, ammo intended for the Lever Action Silhouette Match this weekend. For my unaltered chamber I can seat the full diameter first driving band ahead of the 2.100" case mouth like normal; 0.060" is easy. The measured jump to full band engagement and still be able close the action with the lever is 0.100"+. The bullet I seated today shows almost a no GG contact, .... almost.

It would be educational to see chamber casts of my chamber and the ones that are clearly less than SAMMI length. In my opinion, something less than the old Springfield spec chamber is the cause of the problem because a standard chamber should except cast bullet designs made for lever rifle chambers - the Lyman 457 193 comes to mind.

I have had a number of Miroku Browning 1885 BPCR 45-70 rifles. They seem to be the same chamber I have in the Japanese Winchester 1886. These rifles have a well earned reputation for accuracy. Even my lever rifle 1886 shoots very well.

I think the chamber problem may be limited to 1886 rifles and at that, not all of them.

[Chill Wills]

As an after thought, I am not sure that the Hornady 350g was intended for lever rifles and that in part maybe why it is set up with more in front of the canulure.

[samari46]

I have to seat RP 300 jacketed hollow points somewhat deep cause my Ruger #1 in 45/70 has no throat. Would like a reamer to do 1 degree per side also and my bore measurements at the throat is .459. And open up the throat to ..460 then will need a boolit .462-464. Frank

[NSB]

I was under the impression the BPCR were made with Badger barrels, not Miroku made barrels.
As far as SAAMI specs on throat, check this out. No mystery here, it's easy to see what the problem is: http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/45-70%20Government.pdf

[Chill Wills]

I was under the impression the BPCR were made with Badger barrels, not Miroku made barrels.
As far as SAAMI specs on throat, check this out. No mystery here, it's easy to see what the problem is: http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/45-70%20Government.pdf

NSB - I think we agree more than you know.

The 1885's;
Yes - they are made with Badger barrels. The whole batch of barrels was shipped to Japan to build the production run. Then chambered in Japan with SAAMI reamers. As is my Japan made Winchester 1886 rifle also chambered with a SAAMI reamer.

Back to the 1886's
I have not had in hand one the 1886's that do not chamber rounds or are having trouble chambering rounds, so I can not check and make comments. I can only comment on mine, and it works well.

Clearly not all the production of Browning/Winchester Miroku 1886 rifles have the same chamber design in them.
I have reviewed the 45 GOV SAAMI chamber often. The chamber you called out in the link above has been working in rifles with factory ammo for parts of three centuries, right? And cast bullet molds have been designed to work in them. Again, if yours is not working/chambering fully and your cast bullet - handloaded ammo meets spec (which I have no reason to doubt), the likelihood that your rifle is not a SAAMI chamber could be the problem. I can only think yours and bunch others might be small in some way. In other words, Not SAAMI spec.
The only area we might not agree is how that SAAMI chamber throat will greet and slightly engrave the front band on that cast bullet.

If it were my rifle and it did not chamber my loaded rounds to my needs, I would take steps to change it too.

With great respect, Michael Rix

[bigbear]

My 330gr GC bolts cycle nicely and shoot well in my Browning 1886 replica carbine. No Leading with near max loads. I shot a few (2):), Winchester factory 300gr JHP. Wow, they were like shooting a 22 compared to my reloads. Guys I can cut the loads down a lot and still have adequate umph for black bears.