.38-55 Chambering Problem

[FromTheWoods]

(It has been discussed before, but I can't find it.)

My "new" 1898 Winchester '94 .38-55 doesn't like the cartridge I've built for it--seems the first 3/8ths inch of the case is rubbing against the wall of the chamber.

Bore is .381.
Starline long brass.
240 grain, .382 Cast, by Rim Rock Bullets.

I've read that sometimes a bullet that is this large will expand the neck of the case sufficiently to cause it to stick in the chamber.

Should I back off to a .381 or .380 bullet?
Would a Lee Factory Crimp die take care of the problem?

I'm planning on using H4895, so if you have suggestions regarding grains of powder, I'm open to them.

[oneokie]

Welcome to the world of 38-55 itis. Suggest you try a .381" boolit and see if the problem persists. Accuracy will probably suffer if you can chamber a round with the .381" boolit.

The Lee Factory Crimp die will not cure the problem.

Something to try; measure the OD of one of the rounds with the .382" boolit. By removing the decapping assembly from the sizing die, you can lube the case and run the assembled round back in the sizing die to reduce the size. Do a little at a time, checking for ease of chambering. When you are able to chamber the round, measure the OD at the case mouth again. This will give you a estimate of the chamber diameter and by subtracting the smaller diameter you will have an idea of how large a boolit you will be able to use without modifiying the chamber.

More than likely, the only way you will be able to get good accuracy from your 94 will be to have the chamber opened up so as to accept a cartridge with the large boolit.

[KirkD]

I have an original Winchester 1894 38-55 with an oversize groove diameter of .381. I did three things that improved the accuracy to the point where I get 5-shot groups at 100 yards of around 2".

1. I used soft cast bullets sized to .379 that seem to bump right up to fill the bore (8 BHN).
2. I started using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That did help in my case, allowing me to chamber bullets up to .381 without any problems. Without the Lee FCD, I was limited to .379.
3. I use toilet paper filler, which acts like a poor man's gas check
4. I use medium speed powders like 5744 and SR4759 to help bump up the undersize bullet.

[hyoder]

Bought a '94 in 38-55 just before they stopped building them. Had a .3815 groove diameter and a minimum sized chamber. No way to chamber a .382-.383 boolit, actually nothing over .378. Wouldn't shoot anything that would chamber. I finally borrowed a chamber reamer that a friend had to work on a Marlin and a Winchaster that both had the same problem. Tried everything I could think or and still was unable to get it to shoot. I got mad and had the barrel lined with a .375 liner and chambered chamberd to handle up to .377 boolits and now it shoots just fine.

[boommer]

I also have a old winnie 38-55 1901 vintage and .379 slug soft at 9-10 BHN bumps up fine with 18 grs 5744 at 1375 fps out of a 24 inch barrel.The rifle prints great groups a little over a inch at 50 and at 100 right at 2inch on my good days! SHE is a shooter cant get that out of my other winnies new or old. The lee factory crimp die is nice to have but you can cheat by crimping your cartridge then pulling your pin on the sizing die and running it up in that die just to take the bump out of the roll crimp. I use this method on other 38-55 rifles that 38-55 bores and 375 win chambers because newer rifles have been bastartsized because some moron in the wood pile decided to try re-event the wheel !

[KirkD]

Boomer has the right idea with the soft cast. Stay away from hard cast. I can only chamber bullets about 1 or 2 thou undersize for the groove diameter, yet get 2" groups at 100 yards by using soft cast and 18 grains of 5744.

[charger 1]

Boomer has the right idea with the soft cast. Stay away from hard cast. I can only chamber bullets about 1 or 2 thou undersize for the groove diameter, yet get 2" groups at 100 yards by using soft cast and 18 grains of 5744.

I also agree with the above and secondly would wonder if your brass isnt causing part of the problem. In my experience starline is on the thick side. I got some win tin brass, which although I hate win brass its good for this purpose cause of its thinness,379 air cooled wheel weights, the lee bevel base(which is what I gragged cheap until Ranch Dog has his ready) sits on 28.5 grs of H335 and 6.2 grs of PSB to give fairly heavy compression and 1700 FPS and one hole. Hard bullets were a waste

[JudgeBAC]

Had the same problem with a Marlin cowboy .38-55. After much consternation and trying everything including taking the decapping rod out of the die and running loaded rounds through it, I simply reduced the bullet diameter to .378. Even though this is under groove diameter it shoots really well with four different bullets. I use 3031 powder which has been excellent in this and other cast applications. Shooting undersize bullets seems to defy current logic but it works for me and I dont have to cast the bullets that soft either. Mine are running BHN 13-15. Except for a 300 gr. Saeco, all of the other bullets I shoot are gas check designs. The gas checks are not a problem as I found a dealer who had bought out an old gun shop and I bought about 12 thousand .375 gas checks for $5.00 a box.

[FromTheWoods]

Thanks for the suggestions and your experiences.

I'll try the sizing-die trick first.

I need to order .25-35 cases, so I guess I'll just add a FCD to that order just in case it will help to remedy the problem.

Down the road, I plan to cast my own bullets--BOOLETS. I'm going to try to find someone around here, Redmond OR, who does it. So much easier to learn when you can see the process. Maybe save myself from purchasing unnecessary/poor equipment.

[45nut]

I am just East of you outside of Prineville and would be happy to show you the ropes. Send me a PM with a phone number to discuss.

[FromTheWoods]

Whoa! That is too GOOD!

Thank you!

[McLintock]

When a Winchester '94 in 38-55 jams like you're talking about, it's usually because the rim of the cartridge can't come up through the cartridge guides in time for the round to line up and slip into the chamber; it jams between the top of the chamber and the guides. On early ones like yours, that are made for the original lenght brass like the Starline you're using, it isn't a problem like in the shorter chambered later versions. However, when you stack a .382 bullet and thicker brass, like has been mentioned, it can cause the problem. Either opening up the guides a small amount, like has to be done on many later versions, so the rim can come up earlier, or reducing the overall loaded diameter with a smaller bullet or thinner brass will cure it. If the bore measures .381, then the .382 bullet size you're using is good and maybe it would still shoot good with a .381, if that would reduce diameter enough to make the difference. Also, thinner brass would help, either by neck turning the Starline or finding some Winchester Brass like Buffalo Arms sells. You could also go to slightly shorter brass and probably solve the problem. Ya pays your money and takes your pick of the solutions, but if it was me I'd open up the guides a little and shoot the load you're using now, or shorten the brass a little. I had a '94 made in '97 that had a .381 bore like yours, and using a .381 bullet and Winchester original length brass it fed good.
McLintock

[KCSO]

Had the same problem with an old 94 if you put in a cast slug big enough to shoot well it wouldn't chamber. If you dropped bullet size the accuracy suffered. I finally went with a soft lead bullet sized to 379 and pushed it either with B/P or with Unique. The bullet would then slug up and the gun would shoot reasonably well (4" at 100) I finaly sold the rifle to a collector and he is happy with his wall hanger.

[Skipper]

4-D rents a .400 mouth reamer that fixes this problem for good. $28.00 rental:


http://4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers&PHPSESSID=e7e7d77ed2e8dde322a8b19fc95d9e38

[MtGun44]

If you are crimping, make certain you aren't slightly OVER crimping.
I had the same problem with my 1898 vintage Win94 in 38-55 and it
turned out to be a bit excessive crimping actually bulging out the case
JUST below the crimp and that was what was keeping it from chambering.
A bit less crimp and suddenly I could chamber a .002" bigger boolit, which
I desperately needed ! This was very subtle and took me a while to
figure out. Careful examination of the 'won't go' cartridges showed a
slight rub mark on the brass just below the crimp . . . . . Dismissed it
after I first saw it, then finally did some measuring and backed off the
crimp. Bingo.

Good luck.

Bill

[charger 1]

MTGun44 is also correct. I think you'll find your problem is a combination of a few small things. Go very light on crimp, try to get some win brass and stay under the .380. I did all of these and things is fine and a one holer. I wouldnt be to quick to brake out reamers

[FromTheWoods]

McLintock--It's not a "jam." The case just behind the crimping groove is rubbing the forwardmost area of the chamber wall.

I did play with the crimp, and still the brass showed the slight rub marks. Knowing how the reloading Gods mess with us, I'll try it again to be certain--start with no crimp and move a bit tighter.

Thank you ALL for your ideas and opinions.

[McLintock]

But it's still the same problem, the rim isn't coming through the guides early enough for the back of the cartridge to come up, level out and go into the chamber without the rub. The "stacked" dimemsions at the front is causing a simultaneous "catch" while the rim is still contacting the guides and the case contacting the top of the chamber after the elevator raises the cartridge at the proper angle for feeding. Reduce the dimensions by using a smaller bullet, thinner brass, shortening the brass, and the rim can come through before the contact; it only takes a thousanth or so of clearance for it to feed smoothly. Messing with the crimp isn't going to do any good unless you're actually bulging the case during reloading and you should be able to measure that with calipers. Load a few with your bullet and measure before crimping and then after and see if the diameter's increased or not where the rub is. If you're only getting a rub, then probably just going to a .381 bullet will do the trick; a thousanth may be all you need. That ".400 Mouth Reamer" is accomplishing the same thing by making the front diameter of the chamber bigger, but it's still not addressing the right cause of the problem; I'm with Charger1 on not using it yet. Lengthening the guide rail openings is the right way to fix it, if you want to continue using the .382 bullet. Actually, a 240 gr bullet is pretty short, if you ever want to start using something like the Lyman 375449 270 gr'er or similar, you'll probably really have problems at that diameter. But, whatever floats your boat, it's your rifle. My current '94 38-55 has no problems, but I opened the guides, but it sure did before I did so. It would actually jam up and lock tight, no feed at all, and with 2.08" cases and a .376 barrel; now it feeds anything I put in it. Good luck.
McLintock

[McLintock]

Here's a picture of a guide rail out of a very early (pre 1900) '94 in 38-55. The round, as it comes out of the mag tube, goes back between the two curved sides on the left; these fit the rim pretty close. When the action reaches it's rearward most position, the elevator pops up and places the round at an angle. As the bolt moves forward, the rim rides along the curved portion till it hits the slanted opening and can move upward, thereby aligning with the chamber. If, for any reason, the front of the cartridge hits the chamber while still at the angle, it will jam or cause the rub you're experiencing. Merely polishing the guide rail can help a lot and moving the rear of that slant back so the rim comes up earlier solves the problem. Or you can work on the front as has been discussed here by attempting to get a combination that will feed with the guides as they are.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/2477311/321213699.jpg

The late model '94 commemeratives can be especially bad as they use 30-30 guides and Winchester uses jacketed ammo to test them with (or probably just figured they'd never be shot) and they feed alright at the factory. But when people start using cast bullets and such they have problems.
McLintock

[Oneshot]

I too have one of the last 94's and have the same problem. The bullet hits on ehte top of the chamber and the brass hits on the square shoulder on the bott or the barrel.
I took it to a gunsmith (good one and also an authorized Winchester repair center) we both areed that what it needed was a feed ramp at the bottom of the barrel like on an automatic pistol.
Some 94's came that way. I must be at the proper angle so it will feed and clear the guides. This is currently bing done.

[405]

While the oversized bullets may bulge the case enough to cause the feed problem. This does not sound like that. I imagine many of the old originals simply had minimum chambers in relation to groove diameter.... or over-sized bores in relation to the chamber.... whichever way you want to look at it. The shooters may not have had the chambering problem simply because they likely would have been firing thin-walled brass and slightly undersized bullets. If the gun shot minute-of-deer at 75 yards and went bang a hundred years ago.... it was a shooter! Today since we are all anal about accuracy... we reload, use newer and likely thicker walled brass, bullets sized to groove diameter or a little over and end up with not enough chamber neck clearance.

(I have a pretty good idea/guess about what is going on. I have two very early Win 94s in 38-55) :mrgreen:

A very good, easy! way to check for or isolate the chamber/neck clearance problem. First make sure you are loading the correct LENGTH brass for your chamber. There are TWO lengths out there.

Very minimally bell the case mouth to start bullet. Seat bullet. JUST touch the bell with the sizer die (minus the decapping pin) without resizing the bullet. That should bring the case mouth walls back to parallel without distorting the case. Mark the front half of the loaded cartridge with a felt tip. Single load the round by hand into the chamber and see if it drops to full headspace depth. If it doesn't push it in with a little finger pressure. Pull it back out and look to see where the constriction is. Chances are the constriction will be from just behind the bullet base to somewhere along the shank of the bullet.

The various cures have been posted. :)

[oneokie]

+10 to what 405 posted.

My findings about brass; Old WRA head stamp brass is thin enough to use .380" boolits. Rem-Umc brass-.379", new Win at 2.080" .378". Starline 2.125" .381", Jamison brass, .380".

[FromTheWoods]

McLintock--
I believe you know what you are talking about--believe you know much more about these rifles than I do. In order to be certain I'm learning it all and not messing up, what if I told you the cartridge was loaded through the top of the rifle, not through the loading gate. It would not have to pass by the guide rails. When the cartridge is dropped down into the rifle and pushing it in with the bolt, the crimp area of the case still gets rub marks from the chamber wall. Sometimes I can be a bit dense, but this time, it appears we are not talking about the same problem/mechanics.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I'm going to go out to the shop this evening and change out my .25-35 dies to the .38-55. after preparing a few cartridges, then I'll remove the depriming pin and test that method.

I'd read that the Starline 2.125 was the brass to use in these old Winchesters.

I've received an offer from a fellow to purchase brass, dies, and a mold for this rifle. I'm not sure the brass is long enough--could always use more dies--but don't know about the size of the mold yet. I'd rather not purchase supplies until I know that they will work for this rifle. Your Ideas?

[405]

McLintock--
I believe you know what you are talking about--believe you know much more about these rifles than I do. In order to be certain I'm learning it all and not messing up, what if I told you the cartridge was loaded through the top of the rifle, not through the loading gate. It would not have to pass by the guide rails. When the cartridge is dropped down into the rifle and pushing it in with the bolt, the crimp area of the case still gets rub marks from the chamber wall. Sometimes I can be a bit dense, but this time, it appears we are not talking about the same problem/mechanics.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I'm going to go out to the shop this evening and change out my .25-35 dies to the .38-55. after preparing a few cartridges, then I'll remove the depriming pin and test that method.

I'd read that the Starline 2.125 was the brass to use in these old Winchesters.

I've received an offer from a fellow to purchase brass, dies, and a mold for this rifle. I'm not sure the brass is long enough--could always use more dies--but don't know about the size of the mold yet. I'd rather not purchase supplies until I know that they will work for this rifle. Your Ideas?

Oops!!!!! Chances are pretty good that the 2.125 brass is too long for your chamber. If that is all it is.... that is the good news- it is very easy to trim the brass back to the 2.075-2.085 length. The bad news is that if you are forcing the overlength case into the throat and shooting you may be running chamber pressures way too high as the case mouth is being crimped into the bullet by the end of the chamber.

Re-check your chamber length. You can do that by taking a fairly stiff wire and bending a very short 90 degree spur into the end. Then carefully push that wire along the inside of the chamber until you feel it contact the end of the chamber. You may be able to verify that by using a small flashlight and looking to see that what you are feeling IS the chamber end. From that contact point mark the shaft of the wire with a fine felt tip where it meets the outside edge of the breech face. That length is the length of your chamber. Trim brass to about .020 shorter than that measurement. It is not as precise as a chamber casting but it will for sure tell you if you have the short or long chamber. Most, maybe all, of the early Win 94s have the short chamber. Don't know where you got the other info????

[FromTheWoods]

That makes sense. I was wondering about the coincidence that the marks on the cases measured about the difference in the lengths of the brass choices.

I read that about Starline's longer brass in a few places. Didn't document it since it appeared to be common knowledge.

My rifle's DOM is 1898--Definitey going to measure the chamber. It's a takedown, so measuring and using a light to see will be easy.

Guess this might become a lesson in not jumping to conclusions. Seems a bit obvious that a few minutes of noting the true chamber length could save hours of tinkering and searching for answers.

I had thought about trying the shorter brass, but didn't because I was concerned about the increase in distance from the rifling. Is that called bullet jump?

I'd bet some people are thinking I should just make a chamber cast and get it over with!

I haven't shot these "tight" loads. Didn't want to play with increased pressures.

[Jon K]

Yep, you're thinking right now, do a chamber cast and know exactly what you have.
Do you know anyone nearby with some 2.080 brass? borrow one, load it, and see how it chambers. It will tell you if you're on the right road, til you get some cerrosafe to do the chamber cast.

My 94 is a later model 1980, it is chambered for the 2.080 brass. I use 2.130 brass for the Single Shot w/BP, I use 2.080 w/smokeless also in the Single Shot.

Jon

[405]

That's good most of the kinks got straightened out first.
The 94 action with cast bullets would probably handle the pressure if the load wasn't too hot to begin with but no need to push it. Handy it's a take down- measuring should be easier. It isn't the only cartridge that has these pesky little gnats but it is fairly common to see it in the 38-55. Once you get a close approx. of the chamber length and get the cases to proper length then the next hurdle will be the groove diameter vs chamber neck diameter bugger. The 38-55itis as oneokie correctly named it :) has two parts.... case length and neck diameter vs groove diameter. If the bore is decent in your rifle you should be able to make it shoot pretty well- but they are touchy and can require some load tuning and experimenting!

I found two different bullet/load solutions for my 38-55 levers without having to open up the chambers. DsOM 1894, 1900.

Normal loads and sizes led to poor accuracy and unstable bullets. After finding the best combos both guns are now very, very good shooters.

.378 or.379 diameter 20:1 or 30:1 soft cast, plain base bumped up with black powder
Or about a #2 alloy gas checked over smokeless and as large as can be safely chambered.

good luck with yours

[FromTheWoods]

Well, trimming a case to the shorter length did not solve the problem. It too rubs the wall at the crimp area.

I did remove the crimp and from there, worked to light crimping. It helped a little with the rubbing, but is just shy of solving the problem. I can close the bolt, but I know doing so puts a bit of pressure on the forward case wall.

Took the decapping pin out, ran a couple cartridges up into the sizing die--yes, it allowed them to chamber properly in my rifle. I measured the forward end of the cases, and there is only .001 difference between the "normal" reloads and the "re-resized" cartridges.

I plan to contact that bullet maker tomorrow and see if he will send me a sample of skinnier bullets.

Playing around tonight didn't give me an accurate measurement of the chamber. Tomorrow I'll get a bit more creative so no error is involved.

Regarding the use of 240 grain slugs--These are the only ones I found to purchase in the .382 diameter. Plenty of larger slugs available in the smaller diameters.

[405]

For what it's worth I checked my log book this morning for the 1894 and 1900 94s I have. Both have chamber lengths within a couple thou. of 2.095. Both are un-messed-with and have original barrels/chambers.

Yes, the .282 bullets you're working with are most assuredly fat. I couldn't come close to that large in either of my guns no matter the brass I tried. Wish I could but no way without turning the necks down. Once you get comfortable with the length issue you might try smaller diameter bullets. Too bad Lee bullet sizer die diameters skip right over the entire .375 range. You could salvage your .282 bullets if you have to go a little skinnier by ordering about a .379 Lee sizer from them. Then you could always open it up in small increments to custom fit to your gun's dimensions. The Lee bullet sizer dies are excellent, inexpensive and handy little things!

One complication with shortening brass is that the walls tend to get thicker the farther down the case wall you go. That makes the 38-55itis worse :( May have to spring for some 2.085 stuff with the thinnest walls you can find.

It's not the destination... it's the journey- someone said that? :mrgreen:

[McLintock]

That info about hand loading from the top would have put an entirely different light on the whole issue and I think you've solved it with your statement about running a round back into the sizing die and reducing overall diameter by .001". If the action closed on it normally, with only a slight resistence due to the rubbing, then I think your chamber length is the normal 2.130" that it should be. If it was a 2.10" chamber that last closing of the bolt would be a bear. I was shooting some 2.130" cases in a C. Sharps Hi Wall with 2.10" chamber and thinking it was the longer chamber (custom gun=right chamber), and they were a bear to get the action to close. Finally had a case separation and started checking things and figured it out real quick. Get some 381" bullets and your problems should be solved and the gun should shoot good also. The thinner brass may or may not be needed, you'll have to try it and see.
So far as shortened brass in a long chamber, it can be done. When I first started shooting a 38-55 lever gun it was an Oliver F. Winchester commemerative with a 24" barrel. I needed to get 9 rounds into the mag, for Cowboy Action matches, so I shortened cases until I could, and they came out at 1.95"; shorter than a 375 Winchester. Never did get that gun to shoot good but I started using those short cases in a Browning 1885 38-55 and it has shot great for almost 10 years now. Two different loads, one at about 1450 fps and the other at over 1700, both in the short cases and it's the most consistant, accurate 38-55 I've had; and the Brownings have the 2.130 chamber. I shoot my other one with original WRA cases, Swiss BP and a Paul Jones or Hoch 300-315 gr bullet in Cowboy Action matches (Buffalo Rifle Category) on a monthly basis and it's very accurate. I've since converted that C. Sharps to a 38-50 Remington, so it's not a worry now, and all I've got left of the Oliver F. is the wood on a pre-64 action with a custom barrel, and that combo shoots 42 grs of Swiss 1.5 with a Lyman 375449 really good. Again, good luck with your 38-55, it's a great caliber to shoot.
McLintock

[FromTheWoods]

You are good fellows to guide me through this. Thank you.

I'll not let those .382's rot. I plan on getting set up to cast bullets for my Winchesters before winter comes again. When I get the equipment, my purchasing errors and other bullet buggeries will get resized or melted down. Also, will keep my ears open for someone who can use that bullet.

Didn't make it to the reloading room today--needed to clean the coop to get prepared for my pheasant chicks. Takes a while and a bit of energy.

[405]

While we're talking about and trying to look into the chamber and rear bore area of levers thought I'd add this. Also, very handy when purchasing or inspecting used guns- especially the old ones from BP era where the throat and rear bore was prone to pitting. This also really helps even when looking into the chamber area of bolt guns. Adds clarity to the view.

Any small light works. Epoxy a rectangular piece of mirror the same width as a popsicle stick to a popsicle stick.

Shine light into muzzle. Hold mirror in action near breech to view chamber and rear bore. Can also be used in reverse for getting a better view of forward bore near muzzle.

First photo shows light and small thin mirror.
Second photo shows setup for viewing chamber of a lever gun.

[FromTheWoods]

One of you generous fellows sold me a set of dies which included the Lee FCD. Hooray! Thank you.

After experimenting:
--keeping the belling of the case mouth to a minimum
--using the longer Starline cases.

The FCD did not solve the problem. The case beyond the reach of the Crimp Die still rubs against the chamber wall. (If I were to use the shorter cases, I think the FCD would solve the problem.) But I have a gazzillion long cases.

Using the method of running a loaded cartridge up into the sizing die (no deprimer pin) works.

And that leads to the next questions:
Because this method presses a larger area of the case against the bullet than occurs in a normal crimp, are pressures going to be increasing? Are pressures a concern when using this method?

When cycling the cartridges through the rifle, they do snag a bit on the guides. I'll polish them and see if that helps.

[405]

Using the method of running a loaded cartridge up into the sizing die (no deprimer pin) works.
And that leads to the next questions:
Because this method presses a larger area of the case against the bullet than occurs in a normal crimp, are pressures going to be increasing? Are pressures a concern when using this method?

That method will allow for easier, full chambering no doubt.

Actually compared to forcing the round into the chamber with the oversized bullet.... it should decrease the pressure. In effect, by running the loaded round back up into the sizing die, you are squeezing down both the case and bullet. When fired... the case neck will have enough room to expand to the chamber walls and release the bullet as per normal. It's best to use the minimal amount of resizing to allow for full chambering. The downside of that method is that the now smaller diameter bullet may be under groove size and MAY decrease accuracy and or lead to more bore leading/fouling. Having said that it would still be much better than heavy crimping just for full chambering- especially if there is also a chamber length/case length issue. Also, the best crimp is always a minimum crimp.... just enough to hold the bullet in place against recoil while in the magazine or in any postion in the magazine with other loaded rounds.

[FromTheWoods]

That all makes sense.

I did get the slightest run-up into the die to allow free chambering.

Since it doesn't size the entire slug, I figured the back half of the bullet would still engage the riflings for helping accuracy. I'll find out when I shoot those test-rounds.

[missionary5155]

I have an original Winchester 1894 38-55 with an oversize groove diameter of .381. I did three things that improved the accuracy to the point where I get 5-shot groups at 100 yards of around 2".

1. I used soft cast bullets sized to .379 that seem to bump right up to fill the bore (8 BHN).
2. I started using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That did help in my case, allowing me to chamber bullets up to .381 without any problems. Without the Lee FCD, I was limited to .379.
3. I use toilet paper filler, which acts like a poor man's gas check
4. I use medium speed powders like 5744 and SR4759 to help bump up the undersize bullet.

My 1917 Winny 38-55 was also picky until I started filling the air gap with Cream of wheat... Very soft bullets now go where I am aiming very consistantly.:Fire:

[KirkD]

My 1917 Winny 38-55 was also picky until I started filling the air gap with Cream of wheat... Very soft bullets now go where I am aiming very consistantly.:Fire:
I have a couple articles written by Mike Venturino where he experiments with corn meal filler. He got excellent results. He also compared corn meal filler with toilet paper filler and found that corn meal filler beats toilet paper hands down, for accuracy. I'm gearing up for corn meal filler and will try it first in my low pressure loads for the 45-70. I also plan to try it in my 38-55's.

[Nrut]

I have a couple articles written by Mike Venturino where he experiments with corn meal filler. He got excellent results. He also compared corn meal filler with toilet paper filler and found that corn meal filler beats toilet paper hands down, for accuracy. I'm gearing up for corn meal filler and will try it first in my low pressure loads for the 45-70. I also plan to try it in my 38-55's.
Hi Kirk...I have tried corn meal filler myself but found out that the smell of burning corn meal gives your postion away when lying down suppressive fire while hunting :Fire::Fire::Fire:
Mic :mrgreen:

[KirkD]

Mic, I thought the deer would like that smell! I figured I'd fire off a few rounds from time to time, just to bring them all running toward the smell.

[FromTheWoods]

Maybe you fellows should try "wet cob." It is rolled/smashed grains covered in molasseses. Deer love it. Toasted wet cob would surely drive them wild.

I use BPI Shot Buffer Original in my .32-40. Works perfectly.

[Nrut]

You know Kirk corn meal filler might just work for your eastern deers as they are corn fed and used to the smell of corn...Out west here corn meal filler just plain didn't work so we went to using alfalfa pellets....:mrgreen:

FromTheWoods...that "wet cob" mix sounds like the stuff we used to mix for dairy ration in my dads feed mill when we where kids in California...You are right about the molasses...cows go nuts over it to...One customer would order up to 18% molasses in his ration....You just gave me an idea...How about we tumble lube our boolits in molasses....Molasses looks just like LEE frog snot anyway...:-D

[FromTheWoods]

Somehow, somewhere, it seems to me there is a screw or two loose around this yummy filler idea! (Smiley Face)

[Nrut]

Somehow, somewhere, it seems to me there is a screw or two loose around this yummy filler idea! (Smiley Face)
FromTheWoods....I am getting old and from what I hear (I can barely do that) the older you get the looser your screws get!...[smilie=1: