New Dude With Question (Many More To Follow)

[semperfi71]

Perhaps many before I am done.

Hello, I have been reloading cast/jacketed pistol ammunition and jacketed rifle ammunition since 1972.

As well I have been reloading cast bullets and black powder in .45-70 and .45-75 since about 2000.

Now, I wish to load cast bullets and smokeless powders in my M1903 Springfield.

I have 60 reloading manuals. I have Lyman reloading manuals 45, 46, and 49. I also have Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook dating from 1973?

I have Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #3 and #4 in the mail to me.

I have searched the internet and this Forum specifically.

Here's my first question.

Fillers.....I am very confused.

Some folks say, "Do not use." Other folks say, "Use them."

Some folks say, "Never use solid types like Cream of Wheat." Other folks say, "COW is okay."

I am seeing posts which lead me to believe they are using pistol and shotgun powders in .30-06 without fillers. Which means a LOT of dead air space I'm assuming.

I am seeing posts that lead me to believe that they are suggesting fillers only in the medium burning rifle powders, such as 4895, but NOT in the pistol/shotgun powder loads.

It appears my three Lyman reloading manuals DO NOT USE fillers? I have seen posts that indicate "most" reloading manuals DO NOT recommend fillers.

I am definitely confused and am actually thinking of taking my newly purchased M1903 back to the gunshop and trading it in on a couple of BB guns.

Please educate me on fillers. Thanks.

[OS OK]

The proper use of fillers - Cast Boolits - Gunloads.com (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiO5fiajJ_PAhUBymMKHd9vDm4QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowth read.php%3F109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers&usg=AFQjCNHCkN_tu7sC7zxKjJgC4NQedwP_qg&sig2=Lxe3A3gIzS_-SLhCYsV7IQ)

Here's a good place to start reading...you 'Jarhead'!

Semper Fi...charlie & welcome to the nuthouse! Casting and handloading nuts that is...

http://www.lasc.us < another indispensable reference in this game...this too especially> http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[flyingmonkey35]

The use of the filler is to keep all the powder back towards the primer for a even burn,. As the case lays flat the powder can be uneven. And may decrease accuracy.

Now I have used Dacron and poly ester fill (poly batting ) in mine to no ill effects.

I say try with out and with out see if you can tell a difference.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

the filler positions the powder for better ignition and better [lower] velocity deviation from shot to shot.
you'll know when you need it by looking at the 3" vertical stringing on the target.
if you tip the barrel up before each shot and it gets better but not good you might still do better by adding a filler, or changing to a colder primer and adding more powder.
most of the faster powders don't need it until you get them below a certain point [which again shows up as vertical stringing]
they are both generally easy enough to fix by adding another grain of powder or two.
which unfortunately has a tendency to blow your groups again, just not up and down this time.
you have to find the balance point with each powder [where it's happiest] and decide if it's working in your rifle or not.

[Yodogsandman]

I'd heard that Cream of Wheat will absorb moisture and turn the granules to a solid. That tissue paper and cotton balls will cause wild fires.

I have shot many thousands of rounds with Dacron filler but, I'm just too lazy to do it anymore with so many powders that will work without it. It adds another step to your reloads. I'll only do it now if I feel it's needed. Be sure to fluff up the Dacron you use and not just stuff the case full.

I like to use slower powders that more fully fill the cases now. This provides a slow start with less boolit deformation as it enters the bore. They generally give more velocity, too.

With pistol or shotgun powders, if you tip the barrel up and shoot a group, then tip it down and shoot a group, it should not show any great differences. Some powders are better at this than others and it will depend on the case size and caliber.

[GhostHawk]

Good answers above.

I have used dacron filler in 7.62x54 when I was playing with very much reduced loads.

I have found for the most part it is easier to use a faster burning powder like Red Dot for reduced loads.
Some powders are more tolerant than others. Stick with the manuals when in doubt. If you really are considering fillers read everything ever written on the subject and end up making your own mind as to what is safe, and right and what is not.

When in doubt, a case full of powder avoids the question. Or a modest amount of a fast shotgun powder like Red Dot.

[Lead Fred]

Ive used Dacron filler in near every 45/70 round Ive ever made.

[semperfi71]

Thanks for the info and input. I do intend to load with rifle powders and bullets of 170 to 200 grains. As such I was hoping that combo would not require fillers. I want the higher velocities available and intend to use gas check bullets.

[Mr Humble]

It is harder to get any bottleneck small bore cartridge to shoot well than their older straight case cousins. Try to go fast makes it even harder. Trail Boss and plain base bullets is a good place to start, no filler needed.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks for the info and input. I do intend to load with rifle powders and bullets of 170 to 200 grains. As such I was hoping that combo would not require fillers. I want the higher velocities available and intend to use gas check bullets.
semperfi71,
Welcome to the forum.

High Velocity is a great endeavor, we've discussed it a lot and there have been experiments posted and such. This thread is a good read.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?255753-high-velocity-with-cast

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have an O3A4 Springfield rifle with a 4 groove barrel that has never seen jacketed. I shot over 50 ten shot groups to get just 2 that were under that magical MOA. I use a Lyman 311284 boolit sized to 0.310" and gas checked, 31.5gns 3031 powder set off with a Federal large pistol primer, and no filler!

Next set of testing other calibres on 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57 will be undertaken over the next few months.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/3006moa2_zpseb7e0a10.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/3006moa2_zpseb7e0a10.jpg.html)

My rifle is not fancy by any means but it does shoot cast boolits well!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Springfield_cast.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Springfield_cast.jpg.html)

[Wayne Smith]

When reading about fillers pay close attention to the cartridges they are talking about. In most (not all) cases you will realize that success is found in straight or tapered cases, problems in bottle neck cases.

[OS OK]

Spend time looking for a 'barrel node' instead of lightning fast and flat rounds. Remember what they taught you at the rifle range @ ITR...hit the bulls eye...do it every time, make those groups very small!

One Shot One Kill

[semperfi71]

Appreciate and understand the importance of accuracy over speed. In my case I hope to find the most accurate and the most fastest for the most "flattest" in trajectory. I hope to be shooting semi-long range matches to about 200 yards or so.

I also am suspecting, unless I get lucky I may have a lot of experimenting to do. I will only be using commercial cast bullets so that my be a challenge. I am currently looking at Montana, Beartooth, and Oregon Trail True Shot bullets.

[OS OK]

If you can buyem bare and PC them...I think that would be the start to the best answer.

[semperfi71]

JonB in Glencoe thanks for the info, I am reading it currently.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...city-with-cast