New Cast Bullet reloading questions

[aaholland]

Ok I just started casting for my 300 blackout and I am new to reloading also.

I am using a 230 grain .311 NOE mold.http://i67.tinypic.com/k1t5cm.jpg


I powder coated and sized back to .311 using a lee push through sizer.

I made some testing rounds with just the bullet and case. I used a 30 carbine lyman m die and seated to 2 inchs total legnth. I have a coal tool but not sure how to use it yet.

When first trying to put the sample round in my AAC handi rifle the round was very hard to put in. I could not even get it all the way in. I tried it in my ar15 with same results. I had to slam down the stock of the gun to get the round out. The bullet actually was stuck in the barrel and the brass came out. I used a cleaning rod and knocked the bullet back out.

So next i tried to size to .309 and only added some flare to the case using the lee powder through expanding die with same length and these both go in the handi rifle and AR15. But in the AR it was still a bit hard to extract but it came out and I didnt see any marks on the bullet.

What should I do? Load up somecat .309? Change the length? What else?

[Yodogsandman]

Powder coating increased the size of your boolit nose, probably making it too large to enter the chamber and bore without seating it deeply. This will impose on your powder space and maybe cause higher pressures.

I'd tumble lube the bare boolits with Bens Liquid Lube and try it again.

[OS OK]

What powder coat process did you use, what powder brand also. I use a high quality clear gloss and tap the boolit on the tray before standing on the cook sheet, this way I don't have thick coating interfering at the nose profile.
I looked at the NOE chart but can't tell which profile/weight you have...need more specifics and pictures help too.

*I hesitate to answer these threads where you fellas don't list any details about yourself, ie. State you live in...sometimes when you need help someone who lives nearby will offer to meet up and help, as in teaching you how to use the COAL tool.

[aaholland]

What powder coat process did you use, what powder brand also. I use a high quality clear gloss and tap the boolit on the tray before standing on the cook sheet, this way I don't have thick coating interfering at the nose profile.
I looked at the NOE chart but can't tell which profile/weight you have...need more specifics and pictures help too.

*I hesitate to answer these threads where you fellas don't list any details about yourself, ie. State you live in...sometimes when you need help someone who lives nearby will offer to meet up and help, as in teaching you how to use the COAL tool.
4 cavity NOE 311-230-FN GC. I am using shake and bake method of powder coating.

I am north of Atlanta in Marietta GA. (I edited my profile too)

[OS OK]

177057 Looks like a bore rider...the radiused nose extends into the lands and grooves a little bit when in battery and where it does it's too thick/wide, so, you have to seat it deeper to back it up a bit. Consult your load book for the proper COAL, if what you have to do to make it fit shortens it only a little say...20 to 40/1000" then you can start on the low end of the load calc's and work up from there so you don't run into high pressure from deep seating. Watch the fired primer conditions for sharp edges indicating over pressure.
I don't know exactly how sensitive this cartridge is to deeper seating and you can get into trouble with the gas check going in too deep allso, I work with the .30-06 and .308W and 8MM mostly, huge cases compared to this so I have lots of leeway there. There's a bunch of your type shooters here and they can best advise you about seat depth...sorry I'm of no value there.
Put your State on your Avatar area, be proud of that...My daughter is moving into Atlanta when her escrow closes next month...we are going to miss her being all the way across the U.S. from us!

charlie

Ps...make sure your nose is not coated too thick forcing you into this fix...some of the fellas coat only the drive bands and leave the nose bare...let's see what they chime in with.

[runfiverun]

powder coat is fine on undersized lyman molds.
but ones that someone took the time to measure the rifles throat and make something that is a close fit too, don't benefit from having more diameter added to it.
try powder coating just the driving bands and leaving the nose alone.

[mdi]

OP stated he re-sized after coating. If you mean a caliper for "coal tool", it's best you learn how to measure with calipers to get good measurements. Find out where the cartridge hits the chamber. Mark the bullet and cas with a magic marker and insert into the chamber. Look for the marker rubbed off. If the bullet is hitting first, you'll have to shorten the OAL to make the cartridge fit...

[aaholland]

OP stated he re-sized after coating. If you mean a caliper for "coal tool", it's best you learn how to measure with calipers to get good measurements. Find out where the cartridge hits the chamber. Mark the bullet and cas with a magic marker and insert into the chamber. Look for the marker rubbed off. If the bullet is hitting first, you'll have to shorten the OAL to make the cartridge fit...

Ill try using the marker tomorrow.

I have the coal tool that attaches to my calipers. Just not sure what legnth to look for. So the round should be able to slide into thr chamber easily right? So just keep adjusting the coal till that is just barely achieved?

[aaholland]

Ok i couldn't wait till tomorrow.

I seated the bullet slightly more at 1.600 measuring with the comparator. I zeroed out the calipers with the base of the comparator installed. With it at 1.600 it will feed and extract with minimal effort in my ar15. Should i seat any deeper?

This compares the cast boolit depth to a gemtech 187 gr subsonic factory round.
http://i64.tinypic.com/21mi7h2.jpg


http://i64.tinypic.com/332xwco.jpg

[popper]

Your crimp is too much. Just remove any flare at the mouth. You'll probably need to start with Rx7 or 1680, NOT H110 - it doesn't like lite loads. Check the PC section for OPs that TL and keep the nose bare or just use an alox type TL. Problem with the bore-riders PCd is variance in the nose dia. Check my thread in PC section as a way to verify nose is not too big. Kind of a cheap version of a Sheridan gauge for bore riders.

[Wayne Smith]

My advice - with no experience with the cartridge - is with a boolit loaded that deep - load to keep it subsonic - the original purpose of the cartridge, after all.

[Hamish]

Cleaning rods are handy-dandy for tapping Boolits out of the barrel so you don't have to mistreat your rifle,,,,,,,,,.

[runfiverun]

I think he needs to crimp like that to keep the boolit in place.
he is clear down on the minor diameter at this point.

the sizing to 309 is probably a help here.
in my AAC rifle 310, and any brass that is over a certain thickness will not chamber because there is not enough clearance in the neck area of the chamber.
I cannot use LC type brass and some of the brass on the market is also suspect in this area.
others are fine.
LC brass and 308 jacketed bullets leave me about .0015 clearance for letting the bullet go, that's cutting it close.

one other thing I have found out is that different company's have different ideas on what a 300's throat looks like.
stuff my ruger will shoot chokes my AAC, stuff my AAC likes, my bud's AR may or may not chamber.

[aaholland]

Thats the plan. Loading with 1680 for subsonic.


My advice - with no experience with the cartridge - is with a boolit loaded that deep - load to keep it subsonic - the original purpose of the cartridge, after all.

[aaholland]

Your crimp is too much. Just remove any flare at the mouth. You'll probably need to start with Rx7 or 1680, NOT H110 - it doesn't like lite loads. Check the PC section for OPs that TL and keep the nose bare or just use an alox type TL. Problem with the bore-riders PCd is variance in the nose dia. Check my thread in PC section as a way to verify nose is not too big. Kind of a cheap version of a Sheridan gauge for bore riders.

I loaded the up with less crimp.

[aaholland]

I am kind of scared to shoot these. They seem to go in and extract fine manually from my ar15.

Why when I seat not so deep the bullet does not like to extract. What happens when i fire the bullet if it got stuck with just charging the round?

[Wayne Smith]

When the lightbulb goes off things tend to move! I load my 30-30 with a boolit (old Lee group buy) that engraves the nose into the rifling. Since I have to crimp for the lever action it does extract, but in a bolt gun without a crimp it would leave the boolit behind if I tried to extract. Remember that lead squishes much more easily than gliding metal (bullet jackets). This allows us to do such things as force a boolet nose into the rifling and get away with it.

Since you are shooting subsonic your greatest danger is loading so low that the boolit gets stuck two thirds of the way down the barrel! Always make sure you have a hole in the target before you fire the next one when loading light.

[mdi]

Just a thought or two; You are trying to learn 3, brand new to you processes; casting, PCing, and reloading. Perhaps if you started with some jacketed bullets you could get the reloading part figgered out, them mebbe casting, and after you have your casting down pat, you could try PCing. Not that it's impossible to do all three at once, but I believe in K.i.S.S. and learning one thing at a time is waaaay easier than 3 processes (is the problem with the PC? or the cast bullet? or new to 300 BO reloading, or just reloading in general?)...

[DougGuy]

I think he needs to crimp like that to keep the boolit in place.
he is clear down on the minor diameter at this point.



+1 on the crimp. Looks like a collet style crimp which are usually good. DO the push test anytime you change crimp or neck tension, if you can push the boolit deeper by pushing it against the bench it's not safe in an autoloader, and not safe in a bolt gun if the boolit moves while closing the bolt. Consequences of firing a round that has suffered boolit setback can be disastrous.

It may also be hard to detect because if a boolit hangs in the throat and is pushed deeper into the case when the bolt is closed, and then when the bolt is opened and the extractor pulls the case back, if the boolit is still hanging up in the throat it may pull the case back to where it was when you crimped it and you would never know it!

If you have a 1/4" brass or aluminum rod and a locking collar the kind you get at ACE hardware, you can make a real simple tool that will serve as a depth gage and it will find and measure boolit setback. Close the bolt on an empty chamber, slide the rod into the bore until it rests on the bolt face. Slide the collar down until it rests on the muzzle or the flash hider, and snug it up. When you load a live round, it will push the collar the EXACT distance from the point of rest where you locked it down, as the cartridge COA. You can measure between the collar and the muzzle or flash hider with calipers, and you *should* be measuring your exact COA of the cartridge you loaded. If the measurements are different, THERE, is the amount of boolit setback.

You cannot measure or check for boolit setback by chambering the round then pulling it back out with the extractor as it may change. This takes any error out of it. This is a tool to use while you are working out your final size diameter and your COA and you run into resistance closing the bolt, this will tell you if it is the boolit in the throat causing it, or if it is a problem in the neck area as runfive explained.

Could use your cleaning rod for this too, if you had a collar to fit it. A drill stop of the right size would work.

[Loudy13]

I size that round to .309 and seat it to the top of the driving band...its in there a ways. When I checked the AR with the OAL gauge there wasn't much room with that profile. It did load well after that no forcing needed.

[OS OK]

An over all length gage might help here...
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-Overall-Length-Gauge-straight/dp/B000PD01SI

Or make your own...Making your own overall length gauge - YouTube (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVr5G7vKPPAhVESyYKHdtKBPQQtwIIUDAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dvo BUw9BCo88&usg=AFQjCNEXxeDqZ-mHMZqFH2phvWc-vJ2v9g&sig2=mGo4haRY3lWIw_rqnd7IoA)

Or try a different approach...Reloading Measuring Cartridge Overall Length Without a Gauge ... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVr5G7vKPPAhVESyYKHdtKBPQQtwIISjAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTE _Cn22qJ3c&usg=AFQjCNGCz9QYkBWZW_uiDaX80YgTKLdTqg&sig2=Eg_NMYUTpMrJit5xutPe4A)

Theres lots of ways to skin this cat.

[aaholland]

Just a thought or two; You are trying to learn 3, brand new to you processes; casting, PCing, and reloading. Perhaps if you started with some jacketed bullets you could get the reloading part figgered out, them mebbe casting, and after you have your casting down pat, you could try PCing. Not that it's impossible to do all three at once, but I believe in K.i.S.S. and learning one thing at a time is waaaay easier than 3 processes (is the problem with the PC? or the cast bullet? or new to 300 BO reloading, or just reloading in general?)...

I have loaded some jacked 300 blackout before. But thats it.

Coal is 1.600 currently and they do not set back when tapped on my bench. They manually extract in my AR15 at this COAL. I loaded up 4 of each 10.1, 10.3, 10.5, 10.7 and 10.9 grain using 1680.

[aaholland]

Well i fired all my worked up rounds. 4 of each 10.1 grain and up in incroments of .2 grains.

All fired well with no signs of over presure. The 10.3 were the most accurate but i will have to get the data from the crono when i get home on how fast those were going.


I did realize after shooting a few that I didnt resize the bullets to .309 they were at .311. I had only resized two dummy rounds to .309 but neglected to resize the rest. But they all shot fine in both my ar15 and AAC handi rifle.