M1 Carbine Tapered Case Sizing?

[daboone]

I've been using RCBS carbide sizing die. I've read that the steel die doesn't size as far down on the case as do the carbide die. For this tapered case the steel sizer sound like it would work/stress the case less. As the price of M1 Carbine brass is no longer inexpensive this steel sizing might prolong case life and thus reduce cost. It makes little difference to me about case lubing as it necessary either way.


So does anybody have an opinion about using steel vs carbide sizing and case life and function for the M1 Carbine?

[ulav8r]

Steel dies work quite well when used with lube. Have never loaded 30 carbine, but unless you are shooting hundreds of rounds per week lubing cases should not be too much extra work.

[Bayou52]

I've loaded 30 carbine using a steel sizing die with lube. It works well. No particular issues. I've never sized 30 carbine with a carbide sizing die but I've read where others have said that lube is still needed even with a carbide sizing die. This is because the 30 carbine case has a tapered rather than a straight wall.

Bayou52

[rtracy2001]

I have never heard of any difference between how the carbide and steel dies size the carbine case, but I cannot state categorically state that there is no difference. That being said, I currently use steel dies for 30 carbine, but I do want to get a carbide sizer. My research seems to indicate that while they still require some lube, the carbide dies don't require as much. I have heard of folks claiming success while only lubing every 10th case with a carbide die. I missed lubing one case in my Loadmaster and it stuck and tore the rim off. (I have since started using Hornady One shot and am looking into modifying an RCBS lube die to fit the carbine.)

I seem to loose more cases than wear them out, even with full power loads. The old girl throws them everywhere!

[EDG]

I have a steel FL sizer for the .30 Carbine. This die sizes all the way down to the shell holed like any other die. The corner radius at the mouth of the die is a little smaller than most loading dies so it sizes a few thousandths more than most dies. This die is no different than using a steel pistol die other than .30 Carbine cases are a bit thicker and require more sizing force.

If you want to work your brass less you can buy a steel sizer and polish or lap (using barrel laps) the interior until it sizes the case a minimum amount.


I've been using RCBS carbide sizing die. I've read that the steel die doesn't size as far down on the case as do the carbide die. For this tapered case the steel sizer sound like it would work/stress the case less. As the price of M1 Carbine brass is no longer inexpensive this steel sizing might prolong case life and thus reduce cost. It makes little difference to me about case lubing as it necessary either way.


So does anybody have an opinion about using steel vs carbide sizing and case life and function for the M1 Carbine?

[Bmi48219]

After loading several thousand .30 carbine rounds with a Lee Classic loading kit, I purchased a Lee Carbide die set to make the wife happy (she's adverse to all the pounding noise). I tried sizing brass in the carbide die without lube. Takes a lot more effort and the brass has vertical scratches all the way around the case. No scratches & a lot less effort when lubed.
I did notice the carbide die sizes the brass a lot smaller than the Lee -pound them in - sleeve. I had to back the die out or the seated bullet would bulge the case. I guess excess sizing would be detrimental to case life regardless of whether you use steel or carbide sizing dies. Same for sizing without lube.
Between my carbine and AMT I shoot 150 - 200 rounds a week, in the past 6 months I've found two failed cases, but I lose three times that many every week.

[daboone]

If you want to work your brass less you can buy a steel sizer and polish or lap (using barrel laps) the interior until it sizes the case a minimum amount.

This sounds like what I want to do. I think you said your steel die actually sizes the cases more than a carbide? What brand is that die? I wonder if some of the older steel dies like Herters or CH4D die aren't as tight in sizing? I ask because I'm going to be buying a steel die to some experimenting. I know my RCBS carbide die is almost a small base die for both of my M1 Carbines.

[EDG]

Sorry I left out the brand. It is an RCBS die steel die made in 1983.

My experience with the other brands of dies is for the most part they are even tighter than RCBS.
Pacific and Bair might be a few thousandths larger but not by much. The Herter's and Lyman dies are likely to be .002 to .005 tighter.

I am guessing that the carbide dies will be tight because it is so hard to grind the carbide that they stop grinding at the smallest size that meets their internal drawings.




This sounds like what I want to do. I think you said your steel die actually sizes the cases more than a carbide? What brand is that die? I wonder if some of the older steel dies like Herters or CH4D die aren't as tight in sizing? I ask because I'm going to be buying a steel die to some experimenting. I know my RCBS carbide die is almost a small base die for both of my M1 Carbines.

[mold maker]

I've used only an RCBS carbide sizing die for over 30 years, with no ill effects. Your chamber size determines the amount you work the brass. I have up to 20 loadings on brass that's the same age as the dies. They simply wear out (stretch marks) before splitting with moderate loads and cast boolits.

[daboone]

I finally figured out how to ask my question.;-)
Who makes a tapered steel sizing die for the M1 Carbine?

[abunaitoo]

I always lube 30 carbine when sizing.
Lubing takes less time than removing a stuck case.

[daboone]

Lubeing is almost mandatory to size the M1 Carbine whether is a carbide die or steel. So that's not an issue for me. It's trying to maintain the case's taper, especially near the base. I've never shot anything but reloads in my M1s. So I don't know if maintaining the correct tapered shape will make a difference in either case life or accuracy. But I certainly want to find out.

[rtracy2001]

I finally figured out how to ask my question.;-)
Who makes a tapered steel sizing die for the M1 Carbine?

My RCBS steel sizer die is tapered, as is my L.E.C. die. I thought I read somewhere that the Lee carbide sizer was also tapered and thus why it is so much more expensive than other carbide dies (can't just use a ring like straight wall calibers). I can't seem to find the article at the moment, so I could be dreaming.

[daboone]

Thanks Rtracy! I just ordered that RCBS die. I also called Lee Precision and talked to Jim. He stated that your statement is a about their M1 Carbine sizing die and that is why it is more expensive. I went with the RCBS because of the cost. Either way both require lubing the case.
Again Thank You for your response.

[EDG]

The SAAMI drawing of the .30 Carbine shows it is a tapered round from the case head to the end of the .9824 dimension near the base of the bullet.


http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/30%20Carbine.pdf

[dale2242]

I love carbide sizing dies because you don`t have to deal with removing lube after sizing.
Using a carbide die that you need lube just doesn`t make sense to me.
Why spend the extra money?
I use steel dies for the M1 Carbine because of the taper....dale

[Firebricker]

I have a Lee carbide .30 Carbine and an older Redding steel die. With the carbide dies in .30C IMO it is just too much of a compromise in diameter with a tapered case. If you resize a case with each die you can see the difference in the neck area. I was mainly using them in a Ruger and it did much better with the steel die. The rifle I had was a post war carbine with a generous chamber and either worked fine. As far as case life I did not have either long enough to notice a difference. FB

[daboone]

I finally did a comparison study of M1 Carbine sizing dies. Because the M1 Carbine has a significant taper, even more than the 9mmL. This make it rather unusual. I have an old Lee, a brand new Lee, a brand new RCBS steel die and a borrowed Hornady sizing dies. I set them up for single stage and ran a comparison test.


SAAMI specifications for the M1 Carbine case:
Case measurement just above the web:.3548
Mouth Measurement:.336


After sorting several LC 67 cases here are the results I got from measuring 3 cases for each different die.
Note that I am use a dial caliper and not going for micrometer accuracy. The measurements listed below are the average after sizing 3 cases for each different die. It's probably obvious I'm not knowledgeable in how to set up or present this kind of information.


Old Lee: .352 and 336
New Lee: .355 and .336
New RCBS: .352 and .336
Hornady: .356 and .3365


My conclusions:
The brand new RCBS steel sizing die is now being returned.
My old lee die was definitely sizing the cases too much. However the new Lee die looks the closest to SAAMI.
The Hornady die work the brass less. I load for 2 WWII M1 Carbines, an Inland and a Rockola. I will have to see if the Hornady rounds chamber in both rifles before making the final decision.