lubing and loading .38 wadcutters-what a pain

[Bula]

Am I alone here? I just lubed and loaded some Lyman 358495 143 gr WC's. Lubing all 3 grooves and sitting them on a well belled case proved to be a true pain in the ****. Picking the WC out of the luber(450), i'd lose half of the 50/50 lube onto my fingertips. Setting them into the case lost the other half! Not to mention dropping half of them due to the lube mess. I have zero trouble with any other mold. I'm ready to give up on these. Any advice?

[Ricochet]

Tumble 'em in Alox till there's a good light coating all over, dump 'em on a sheet of plastic and let dry overnight. Repeat. Load. Shoot. Don't even need to size 'em. I despise using a lubrisizer.

[R.M.]

Not sure I can be much help, but I do load a lot of these. I only apply lube to the first 2 grooves. I honestly believe that one groove would work OK. I use a Star press, so there's another difference. It sounds like your lube is pretty soft. I've never used 50/50. Are you using a heater? These bullets should load no different than any other.
I don't know what else to suggest.

[Bula]

RM,
I considered that but figured I'd not risk it. No trouble with leading? If I could get just a little more room on top of the boolit, that would make sense. No heater but I'm in furnace-like Phoenix, that lube is pretty soft. I'm loading over 3g of Bullseye for use in a GP100 and a lever carbine. thanks.

[runfiverun]

one groove full should be plenty that is all that any of my 38's have, and i run them up near 1000 in my 92 carbine..

[DLCTEX]

I think I would just dip them in LLA to the second groove and sit them on their bases to dry. I don't like the buildup in my seating die if the whole boolit is coated. I may be getting it too thick as I haven't tried diluting it, but no problems with leading. DALE

[garandsrus]

Bula,

LLA will work fine... A harder lube will also work well and stay in the grooves. I used Lars BAC and liked it very much. I am now using his 2500 but haven't shot any WC lubed with it yet.

John

[fecmech]

I have been lubing the 358495 and the H&G #50 in just the bottom lube groove for over 20 years now. One lube groove is plenty!

[GabbyM]

I'll second the Lars BAC.
It's soft enough to work with low pressure loads. Doesn't smoke. plus it's not messy if you've been used to 50/50.
Haven't tried their 2500 lube so can' t comment.

If you've a sack full of 50/50 buy some Carnauba Red then melt them together and you'll have something close to BAC.

Of course as soon as you can. Buy a Star. They are made in Queen Creek, AZ. Just a hop South of you.
They pump lube into the groves under such high pressure that air is displaced to the point where the lube actually stays put after the bullet drops out. They are an amazing old design that will spoil you in a minute. Sell your RCBS and Lyman stuff on ebay. btw, anyone want an RCBS sizer?$

[94Doug]

Yes, send it right over.

Doug

[GabbyM]

Yes, send it right over.

Doug

Note the $ after the ?.

[azrednek]

Bula I live in Phoenix and wont fool with the soft lubes. Learned my lesson the hard way. On my way to Avery I stopped to pick up some ammo and through a junk food drive-in. By the time I arrived at the range the lube was melting. The ammo was sitting in my trunk. On a previous occasion the lube melted in a box I placed on the dashboard of my pick-up. You might get by if you carry the ammo up front with you but don't leave it anywhere the sunlight will get to it or warm up like a car's trunk.

After my second mis-hap I've been using Lee's Liquid Alox since for my 38 wad cutters and hard lube for anything hotter like 357, 44's etc. I've tried various lubing and sizing methods for different 38 wad cutters but I get the best accuracy when I shoot them as cast using Lee's tumble lube.

You will see different suggestions here and other groups on how to thin the tumble lube. During the warm months I just put the bottle in direct sunlight and let nature and the sunlight thin it out. Usually takes about 10-35 minutes depending on the temperature. Just shake the bottle like crazy after it thins out and let it sit a few more minutes. Just a few drops in a bowl goes a long way.

[miestro_jerry]

I use a fairly hard lube and my Star sizer, but the first two grooves work plenty well. If you use pure carnuba wax, it maybe too hard and break out of grooves while in storage. I really don't use that many WC bullets, because I shoot mostly semi autos pistol, rifles and Contenders, but do have two 357 Mag revolvers that I shoot 357 mags and 38 Spls in, but generally SWC.

I am experimenting with the Lee Sizers and their liquid Alox, this is in conjunction with Ranch Dog bullets.

Jerry

[quack1]

When I got my 358495 I lubed 2 grooves. Noticed a pretty heavy lube star on the crown so I tried only lubing one groove. Cut down on the lube star, didn't lead and as a pleasant bonus, they tightened up my groups a little. I used 50/50 NRA formula for a lot of years, then for the last few years have been using Felix lube. Both worked well with only one groove. My mold drops bullets on the fat side so I have to size, if it dropped them small enough to shoot as cast I believe I would try lubing with Johnson paste wax. Lubing with LLA makes too much of a mess on the seating stem, a wax coating doesn't leave anything on the stem.

[MT Gianni]

I get plenty of accuracy with only 1 lube groove filled in wadcutters. I started out lubing all 3 and have followed the accuracy to 1. Gianni

[jonk]

I've gone both the LLA routine and the lubesizer routine. Never had any issue- I too just lube 2 grooves. I'm curious though, why you're having trouble removing the bullet from the sizer; on the upstroke on my RCBS lubrisizer, and I presume Lyman too, the bullet is driven back out of the sizer and is just sitting there on top. Just grab it and seat. Use of an M die or Lee universal expander is generally a must.

[Bula]

Jonk, I can get to the boolit just fine. But lubed all the way up to the 3rd groove leaves less than a 1/4 of "unlubed lead" to get my meat hooks to pinch onto.

To the rest of you...You guys are great, thanks. I've had real good results with that 50/50 except until now. I typically lube, and load in batches of 50-100, so i don't (can't) keep lubed pills around waiting to get loaded in this heat. I really don't want to hassle with a heater. I'm going to try Lars BAC and experiment with some others.

Thanks again everyone and keep the pointers coming.

[oso]

Another bottom groove WC luber here. Also wipe any lube off your fingers if they begin to get sticky. Sometimes I'll dip my fingertips in some motor mica.

[azrednek]

Bula can't speak from personal experience but a friend of mine that lives here claims to use the pricey RCBS lube installed without any heat and it wont melt away in the Phoenix heat. Maybe somebody else will chime in here that has used the RCBS lube. I was going to give it a try but the price at Sportsman's Warehouse scared me away. I think it was around 5 bux a tube.

I previously used the 50/50 stuff for years, back in the pan lubing days and never had any problems with long term storage of the loaded ammo. The problems were always on the ride to the range. Keep the lubed ammo up front with you in the passenger compartment of your car and off the dash and you wont likely have any problems. The other poster that suggested motor mica is a good idea. I've used talcum powder on my hands when handling sticky boolits and it works well.

If you get a chance try the tumble lube for you 38's. If your results are like mine you will see an improvment in accuracy and a clean barrel. I currently load and shoot the Lee TL 148's from straight wheel weights. I don't size the slugs but do use the Lee Factory Crimp Die that gives them a little nudge. I'm using 2.7- 2.9 grs of Bullseye with Winchester primers. It is the most accurate 38 load I've put together. I've used various Lee and Lyman full wadcutter molds, including the Lyman hollow based. I've tried them all with different lubes, sized .358, .359 and unsized as cast but the Lee TL 148 from a 6-banger mold with a liquid lube has really shined. Using the same load in 357 brass works equally as well. I also got great accuracy using the Lyman HBWC using pure lead but now I'm saving my pure lead for muzzle loaders.

[TexasJeff]

If you get a chance try the tumble lube for you 38's. If your results are like mine you will see an improvment in accuracy and a clean barrel. I currently load and shoot the Lee TL 148's from straight wheel weights.

I use this mould as well, but I use a mix of LLA and JPW spritzed with just a small dash of odorless mineral spirits. I "cook" the paste wax in a cheap aluminum pan on top of a hot plate to get rid of most of the solvent, leaving mainly the carnuba. While still toasty, I mix it with the Lee Liquid Alox and then add maybe 10% mineral spirits, and shake like crazy--then let cool.

Shake well before use, too.

After the first tumble lubing, I let dry then size through the push-thru .358, then tumble lube again. After the boolits have dried, I put them in a ziploc and add just a small pinch of mica powder, then shake the bag. Just that light coating finishes taking all the "tacky or sticky" out of them, and I get no buildup on my seating dies or my fingers.

Accuracy is superb, leading is non-existent, and barrel is nice and shiny.

My kinda shooting.

Jeff

[Echo]

Yo, Bula;

If you are casting outside, or in an un-heated workroom/garage/whatever, use a drop light next to the lube/sizer. Works like a champ.
And the coldest I have seen here south of you is 19 degrees - but I didn't go out and do any casting or loading...

EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA PAtron
O&U