Silver: Adding silver to bullet alloy.

[nitro-express]

I'm a relative newcomer to the bullet casting hobby. I have some scrap silver and am thinking about adding some to my alloy to get a harder alloy.

First, are there advantages to having a small amount of silver in bullet alloy, beyond the added hardness?

Next, is there a proper way to alloy it with common bullet alloy (Lead, antimony and tin) ?

Or should I just sell the silver? I have about 5 pounds of garage sale silver trays and spoons hoarded.

[DerekP Houston]

personally unless it is just for "kicks" I'd sell the silver when the spot price goes up a bit. Around election time it'll probably go up a tad.

[OS OK]

I'd be eating off those silver spoons, they put tiny amounts of silver in your system and fights against viruses. Looots of viruses!

Check out 'Colloid Silver' and it's history. http://naturalsociety.com/colloidal-silver-health-benefits-truth/

[runfiverun]

silver has some benefits in a lead alloy.
if I need those benefits i'll buy some lazer cast boolits.

sell your silver when the spot price goes up again.

[Lead Fred]

werewolf hunting?

176986

[farmerjim]

I have read that in small amounts it helps with mold fill out more than tin.
It was on the internet, so it must be true.

[Pipefitter]

Sell a bit of that silver and stop at the local plumbing supply house, get a pound or two of "lead free, silver bearing solder". 96-98% tin, 2-4% silver. Should run you about $25/lb.

[DocSavage]

Are you expecting a visit from Laurence Talbot? Does adding silver to your alloy going to make the bullets significantly harder or fill the mold that much better that's the more inporant question and is it worth the extra cost of the silver. Silver is around what $40 -$50 an oz. .As someone advised earlier buy Lazrecast bullets and sell the silver or sell the silver use the funds to buy the Lazercast and put them in stash for a later date

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Sell a bit of that silver and stop at the local plumbing supply house, get a pound or two of "lead free, silver bearing solder". 96-98% tin, 2-4% silver. Should run you about $25/lb.

You could use this solder neat, or diluted with lead in pretty much the same proportion as ordinary tin - which it very nearly is. I cant imagine that either will cast bullets worse than lead alloy, but I doubt if they will be better, and they would certainly be more expensive and of lower specific gravity.

Tin is said to dissolve silver quite well, at what temperature I don't know. But lead may give off dangerous oxides before silver melts.

[376Steyr]

IIRC, the silver in the Laser-cast brand bullets is actually a contaminant in their lead supply, which is a by-product of a silver refinery. I may be totally wrong about this and would welcome being corrected.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

silver has some benefits in a lead alloy.
if I need those benefits i'll buy some lazer cast boolits.

sell your silver when the spot price goes up again.
I have never heard of any benefits (that were cost effective) to add silver into a boolit alloy.
But, I bet you got a tale to tell, with a benefit or two...eh?

[NoAngel]

It comes up from time to time. I find it laughable that hollywood has depicted people cast silver in a traditional mold. While certainly possible, only a fool of a caster would try. With a melting point of 1700+ degrees, it would destroy a good mold.

On a whim I decided I needed a few silver bullets loaded and ready. I used a torch to forge weld a small pile of necklaces and rings into a rough round stock, then lathe turned some silver bullets. After doing just a very few, I quickly lost interest.

[M-Tecs]

Silver definitely helps with mold fill out. In the 60's and 70's it was very common to add a silver dime to the lead pot. I am lucky that bought out Grainer's lead/tin/silver solder at $2.49 a roll. They had 89 pounds left.

While I really like silver in the alloy I would not add saleable silver to lead at the current prices for silver.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

IIRC, the silver in the Laser-cast brand bullets is actually a contaminant in their lead supply, which is a by-product of a silver refinery. I may be totally wrong about this and would welcome being corrected.7

I don't know, but it is possible. Lead and silver are often found in association. But they separate them as much as is practicable. I think we can be pretty sure they don't leave you a big contaminant.

[fiberoptik]

Surely the Lone Ranger really did cast his silver bullets on a campfire with buffalo chip fire! I saw it in black and white on TV! Must be true!! Hehehehe!


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[runfiverun]

Lazercast is using lead with silver traces in it from a mine tailing.

silver does what Tin does in the alloy only it does it properly, Tin is okay in lead but it doesn't really love it in there and would rather be somewhere else.
silver wet's the surface and flows along with the lead instead of just wetting the surface allowing the lead to flow through to the surface for better fill-out.
it also adds an internal hardness without the break down of the structure like tin does [no creak or pop of the crystals pulling apart]

[country gent]

What does the small amount of lead do to the casting melting temp of the alloy?

[too many things]

why not cast some silver boolits? problem is you need a steel mold and High heat . I made 25 for a gun belt in 357 . and they were good for show until the AH at a range removed them he was later found . they do cast as pure but you have to have HIGH heat with a hot fire and mold has to be red, its fun but the mold is history

[BNE]

Lazercast is using lead with silver traces in it from a mine tailing.

silver does what Tin does in the alloy only it does it properly, Tin is okay in lead but it doesn't really love it in there and would rather be somewhere else.
silver wet's the surface and flows along with the lead instead of just wetting the surface allowing the lead to flow through to the surface for better fill-out.
it also adds an internal hardness without the break down of the structure like tin does [no creak or pop of the crystals pulling apart]

+1 on Run5s comments.
Silver will alloy with lead easily. We use an alloy of 97.5%Pb, 2.5%Ag as a braze alloy for some older military designs at work. I collect the scrap when we run these parts. It's not much, but who passes by a wheel weight in the parking lot? I have cast bullets from this and sent to a member here to test hardness. At 2.5%, the hardness was similar to a COWW. (~3%Sb,1%Sn)

So technically it would help, but I don't have a ton of experience beyond what I stated above.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

R5R and BNE,
thanks, I knew there was sumtin to learn today.

[shunka]

I have about 5 pounds of garage sale silver trays and spoons hoarded.

Most silverware, trays, spoons, etc are silverplate rather than solid silver.
Sterling silver will be marked as such.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

why not cast some silver boolits? problem is you need a steel mold and High heat . I made 25 for a gun belt in 357 . and they were good for show until the AH at a range removed them he was later found . they do cast as pure but you have to have HIGH heat with a hot fire and mold has to be red, its fun but the mold is history

You want more answers to that question? Well, there's shrinkage, unless you turn them to that size and shape, and the possible pressure surge as they hit the rifling in a revolver... if you plan for them ever to hit the rifling. The French M1873 has broken topstraps when converted to .45ACP, and it seems to be not from .45ACP pressure in itself, but from the forcement strain of GI hardball. That is just one fairly robust but old-fashioned mild steel revolver, but solid silver is worse than hardball.

It would, however, make an excellent swaged high-power rifle bullet, better even than copper at conducting heat away from the bullet to bore interface, and therefore staying cooler. Corbin say you can swage metals like bronze if you really want to, and silver should be at least as easy. There must be some other reason why people don't really want to.

[quail4jake]

Can anyone comment on the metallurgy, BNH increase, liquidus phase etc? I wonder if silver can shift the eutectic point of a trinary alloy...

[runfiverun]

I think you'd have to look at the proportions in the alloy to answer all those.
some is good more changes things.
silver adds a bhn amount to the alloy closer to Bismuth or antimony.
it also changes the internal structure of the alloy similar to arsenic or Sulpher making everything pack together tighter.
and of course now I forget the word I'm looking for to describe that.

[mold maker]

Are you expecting a visit from Laurence Talbot? Does adding silver to your alloy going to make the bullets significantly harder or fill the mold that much better that's the more inporant question and is it worth the extra cost of the silver. Silver is around what $40 -$50 an oz. .As someone advised earlier buy Lazrecast bullets and sell the silver or sell the silver use the funds to buy the Lazercast and put them in stash for a later date

You're obviously not watching the price of silver. It has recently been as low as $11.80/oz A, and is currently $19.635/oz A. It is on the rise, though slowly.

[iomskp]

Many years ago I read a article in Guns and Ammo I think, about a fellow trying the check the lone ranger myth about purer silver bullets, from memory the silver bullets stripped the rifling out of the old peacemaker in about a dozen shots, based on that article if it was true I would not do the silver bullets.

[BNE]

Can anyone comment on the metallurgy, BNH increase, liquidus phase etc? I wonder if silver can shift the eutectic point of a trinary alloy...

177178

Here is the phase diagram.

[popper]

Near/semi eutectic is to the right, very low % of Pb (something like VH=800). The very low % Ag is left, as a grain refiner, like S, As.

[runfiverun]

grain refiner,,,, that's it.
I knew popper would remind me.

[BNE]

Eutectic is to the right, but Popper got it backwards. Eutectic is 97.5% Pb,2.5% Ag.