32 ACP heavies

[Boolseye]

Anyone shoot 75-85 grain boolits in this caliber?
general load suggestions? Very little data and the search turned up zilch. Thanks guys.

[LIMPINGJ]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?291374-32-ACP-quot-Balls-Up-quot-Serious-Loads-with-Accurate-31-087T

[NoZombies]

What guns are you shooting the loads in?

I normally run 90+ grain bullets in the ACP, but it's all fired through a Walther PP or a single shot rifle.

[Boolseye]

Considering a CZ 70. Currently borrowing. A NAA Guardian that has some troubles. Great link, thanks LimpingJ

[Outpost75]

In my M1903 Colts I replaced the original recoil springs with Wolff replacements intended for the M1908 .380 ACP.

Alliant #2400 is one of the safer powders to experiment with bullets over 80 grains in the .32 ACP because you can't get enough into a .32 ACP case to get into trouble. As bullet weight and seating depth increase, powder capacity is reduced, which is self-limiting. Accurate 31-087T with 5.6 grains of #2400, as metered from RCBS Little Dandy Measure Rotor #7 - is compressed, giving a bit over 900 fps from a 3.4” barrel.

I then came across Winchester Auto Comp, which replaced the discontinued Winchester Action Pistol and falls in burning rate along with HS6, HS7 and older WC630 powders. Auto Comp is 1.3 times as dense as Bullseye. It works out that if your powder measure is set to meter a tested, safe charge of Bullseye, you can dump the Bullseye out of the measure; refill it with Auto Comp and happily proceed with safety!

The RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #0 drops 2.2 grains of Bullseye, commonly recommended in the .32 ACP with a 71-grain FMJ bullet. It also meters 3 grains of Auto Comp, recommended by Olin for 958 fps with a 71-grain FMJ bullet in .32 ACP from the SAAMI test barrel, at only 14,800 psi. SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure for .32 ACP is 20,500 psi. The MAP is the sample average plus 3 standard deviations. Based upon previous experiments, I reasoned that if a load was VERY uniform, there was some “wiggle room” for a heavier bullet with the 3-grain charge. I cautiously tested Accurate 31-087T and 31-090B bullets with 3 grains of Auto Comp. Ejected cases appeared normal and the loads function and shoot well.

With the Accurate 31-07B using 5.9 grains of Alliant #2400, bullets sized .311" and loaded to 0.945” OAL, you achieve powder compression and 900 fps from the 2.4” Beretta Tomcat. This load has proven safe, accurate, reliable, and effective and almost exactly approximates the short-barrel velocity I recorded with the 75-grain Buffalo Bore load, but the longer OAL is sufficient to prevent rim lock. Buffalo Bore equivalent .32 ACP hand loads can also be assembled with Accurate 31-077B or the similar NOE Ranch Dog profile bullet using RCBS LD Rotor #0 for 3.0 grains of Auto Comp.

In my earlier .32 ACP testing, I used a wartime steel-frame M1935 Beretta 7.65mm with replacement Wolffe recoil spring from a .380 M1934 as my test platform. Inspection of ejected cartridge cases showed no bulged heads, flattened or backed out primers, or other evidence of early opening indicating significant residual chamber pressure.

Rim lock can happen in .32 ACPs if overall cartridge length is less than about 0.94". This is because short cartridges have unsupported space to move longitudinally from their “as-stacked” position in the magazine box under recoil. This causes the semi-rim of the cartridge on top to lodge behind that of the cartridge beneath it, so that the top cartridge cannot be stripped from the magazine during the feed cycle.

The 75-grain Buffalo Bore FN load is only 0.715” long and gave frequent failures to feed in my Colt M1903, and occasionally in my Walther PP, Beretta M1935, CZ27, and other WW2-era pistols designed for Euro hardball.

Preventing rim lock requires bullets of adequate nose length and suitable profile to fit the magazine box, at 0.94” overall cartridge length or greater. This prevents rounds from “shuffling in the stack” during recoil, so that rim lock then cannot occur.

In Accurate 31-090B Tom Ellis met our design objective to produce a heavier Buffalo Bore Style bullet of 0.26” nose length to ensure a minimum 0.94” overall cartridge length in .32 ACP with a meplat of 0.20” (0.64 of bullet diameter) and ogival profile which fits the magazine box interior profile closely to positively prevent rim lock. 31-095T has the same meplat to crimp groove length and band configuration, but with a huge (for the .32 ACP) .25” meplat (0.80 of bullet diameter), and having a short radius behind the flat to contact the feed ramp for reliable feeding. Its tapered nose also fits the CIP throat. This is the heaviest, most blunt bullet possible to load in the .32 ACP and feed in Colt and Beretta pistols. Velocity in .32 ACP approximates typical hand loads in the .32 S&W Long fired from a revolver.

A summary of my experience using the RCBS Little Dandy measure rotors in .33 ACP is helpful:

The RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #00 meters 1.7 grains of Bullseye. This is a pleasant and reliable practice load with the 87 through 95-grain lead bullets, approximating .32 S&W Long ballistics from a 4" revolver. It can be used continuously and without worry in your Keltec or Beretta Tomcat. The #00 rotor also meters 2 grains of TiteGroup, which is a safe, full-charge load with 77 or 78 grain bullets for safe use in the lighter guns. The #00 rotor also meters 2.5 grains of AutoComp, providing a standard-pressure alternative with 87 to 95-grain bullets for about 800 fps from a pocket pistol.

According to RCBS, Rotor #0 meters 2.2 grains of Bullseye. Mine averages 2.05 of current Alliant product and 2.1 of older Hercules from the 1970s. Bullseye, like TiteGroup, peaks quickly with small increases in charge weight, so you must be cautious. Using RCBS Rotor #0, the 87-grain bullet gets 900 fps from my M1903 Colt with 3-3/4” barrel and 800 fps from the 2.4" Tomcat- a “full-charge” load that should not be exceeded with Bullseye powder.

Little Dandy Rotor #1, according to the RCBS charge table, meters 2.5 grains of Bullseye. Mine actually averages 2.35 of current Alliant product and 2.4 of older Hercules. This is a full charge load with 71-grain Magtech, Hornady or Remington FMJ bullets at 0.97” OAL for 968 fps, from a 3.5” barrel, approximating CIP-Euro factory ammunition. Substituting Green Dot in LD Rotor #1 throws 2 grains of that powder, producing about 800 fps with the 77-78 grain NOE and Accurate bullets from a 2.4" barrel, being a safe and mild practice load for the Keltecs and other micro-pistols.

[Kestrel4k]

Anyone shoot 75-85 grain boolits in this caliber?
general load suggestions? Very little data and the search turned up zilch. Thanks guys.
Lee #1 has very limited data using Accurate #2 & #5 powders for those; if you'd like I can send you the page.

[tejano]

I got the loads below from another shooter who posted them here or on another forum. He shoots them with Hornady swaged 90 gr. SWC in a Walther PP. Since I have a PP as well, I tried them all and they worked fine just as he said they would. They worked equally well in my CZ83 and Beretta 81.

1.7 grains of Bullseye for ~800 fps
2.0 grains of W231 for ~850 fps
2.0 grains of Unique for ~800 fps
2.4 grains of Herco for ~800 fps

[Outpost75]

Ammunition _____________Beretta Tomcat 2.4” - OAL 0.945"
Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400______913 fps, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 2.5 grs.HP38________810 fps, 12 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique_____965 fps, 26 Sd
Acc. 31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400_____825 fps,15 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye____800 fps, 8 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 2.3 grains HP38_______824 fps, 5 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 2.5 grain Unique______ 815 fps, 23 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp+P_915 fps, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#6, 5.2 #2400______821 fps, 23 Sd

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN___________883, fps, 6 Sd

176768176769176770

[Boolseye]

Wow, great info! I've got some reading ahead of me, thanks guys.

[reddog81]

I use a Lee 92 grain RN bullet behind 1.9 grains of Bullseye. It works well. Powder coated and Sized to .309 in my Colt 1903 it is very accurate.

I'd be leery of using more powder than 1.9 grains, but 1.9 seems to be a fairly light load.

[Good Cheer]

6" barrel semi-auto small game hunting load.
313249 with 2 1/2 grains of AL-5.

[Boolseye]

Kestrel4k, thanks for the offer, I have the Lee data. Very cool, guys. Thanks again for all the great info.
-jp

[Boolseye]

If I might take OP's prerogative and hijack my own thread: can anyone speak briefly on the cz70 as an option? I see some available in "fair" condition, and I'm considering it for under 200.

[Outpost75]

If I might take OP's prerogative and hijack my own thread: can anyone speak briefly on the cz70 as an option? I see some available in "fair" condition, and I'm considering it for under 200.

I had one. No longer own it. Reliable enough with Euro ball. Would not cycle with US ammo, but was accurate and reliable with RWS and Fiocchi. Mine would not feed cast lead FNs with large meplat or JHPs. Magazine is unique and not compatible with anything else. Neither the original 2 mags nor Triple-K replacements were 100% reliable in mine, so got rid of it. Others report them good, but don't know how much they actually shot them or with what ammo. The two CZ27s I had were reliable with the original mags, but good luck with finding more spares. The grip angle was wrong so not natural pointer for me in instinctive fire, so I sold them both and used the proceeds to get another Colt Type III and a bunch of original WW2 USGI mags for it. Type III has the grip safety, no separate barrel bushing, no magazine safety.

Currently have two Colt Type IIIs, two Beretta M1935s, two 1960s-era West German Walther PPs which run everything 100% and I can hit with instinctively point-shoot.

[Boolseye]

Alright, thanks Outpost. Think I may hold off and wait for something more versatile.

[beemer]

I have a CZ-50 in nice condition, it is reliable with commercial FMJ but shoots to high to suit me. Flat nose boolits did give problems with the few I tried. It also gives problems with the RCBS 85 gr. boolit. The forward driving band is forward of the crimp groove and will not go into battery unless seated deeper or sized to small. It is accurate when I could get it to function and I feel about the right weight.

I have tried the Lee 100 gr and it works but seats to deep in the case and will function with as little as 1.1 gr. of BE and almost to hot at 1.4. Last week I had this mould shaved off, it is now 85 grs and pours a nice looking boolit. I intend to try it shortly.

My mags needed a little work, one would catch the follower on the retainer notch. One new one needed the front lip polished.

My thoughts are in line with Outpost75, but I'll probably keep mine.

Dave

[Outpost75]

Best bang for the buck in affordable, reliable .32 ACP which will digest hot loads, feed anything and shoot where you point it, is the Beretta M1935. This is essentially the same pistol as the M1934 in .380 with smaller diameter barrel, lighter slide and smaller magwell proportioned to the .32 ACP. Very simple, sturdy gun. Wartime versions were all steel and used by the Navy, Air Force and police. Barrels, slides and magazines NOT interchangable with the M1934. Production continued post WW2 into the mid-1960s. A light alloy frame version in .32 ACP was offered starting in the mid-1950s and is a handy pocket gun about 4 ozs. lighter than the steel version. Postwar guns are better made and less expensive than the wartime ones, as they have less collector value, but they almost always have better bore condition because they never saw corrosive ammo.

If you find a wartime one cheap with raunchy barrel, all hope is not lost, for John Taylor can make a new barrel from a piece of .30 cal. blank, set it up with good chamber which headspaces on the case mouth and it will shoot a rabbit in the eye at 50 ft. with good ammo. If you have to ask what that costs, then you don't want it badly enough...

[Boolseye]

Thanks for the recommendation, Outpost.
I will stay on the lookout,
-jp

[Outpost75]

If you own a Beretta Tomcat, clean and inspect it NOW!

I finally did it!!

My Model 3032 INOX .32 ACP Tomcat digested over 2000 rounds of hot Euro Ball and heavy bullet handloads as a test platform, but I finally cracked the frame on my most recent range session yesterday.

If you want to know where they fail and what the failure mode looks like, take a look.

Pop open the tip-up barrel and look at the left slide rail above the hole for the trigger pivot.

If you own one of these, don't subject it to multiple thousands of rounds, and limit use of heavy loads to carry. As FYI Beretta does not "fix or replace" this model anymore and the gun is not warranted with handloads which exceed [wimpy] SAAMI specifications... So,

My Tomcat is now a teaching tool only and my Ruger LCP has become the "Church Gun."

I say again, IF YOU OWN A BERETTA TOMCAT, INSPECT IT.

I still have no reservations firing the heavy .32 ACP loads in STEEL FRAME, standard sized guns such as the Colt M1903, Walther PP, Beretta M1935, CZ27, etc., replacing recoil springs with the heavier Wolff .380 ACP replacements where practical. No clue how Keltecs hold up to this treatment, but I won't be buying one for destructive testing, because for what they cost I could buy another Ruger LCP and did I just did exactly that!

177107

I will continue to use my Tomcat as a teaching tool to demonstrate the advantages of the tip-up barrel for women or elderly who have trouble racking the slide, but any shooting will be VERY limited from now on, with more sedate loads than my hand loaded Buffalo Bore approximations. Here is a summary of loads I have tested which do not exceed factory energy which are more suitable as a "steady diet" for the Tomcat and Keltec pistols:

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”

Acc. 31-077B 2.5 HP38___________810, 12 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#00 2.0 TiteGroup_790, 12 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#0 2.2 Bullseye___757, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#1 2.5 Bullseye___835, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__837, 10 Sd

Acc.31-090B LD#00 2.5 AutoComp__729, 11 Sd

Acc. 31-095T LD#00 1.7 Bullseye___640, 11 Sd
Acc. 31-095T LD#00 2.5 AutoComp__741, 25 Sd
Acc. 31-095T LD#6 5.2 #2400_____750, 17 Sd

[Boolseye]

Good to know, I'll tell my friend who owns one.

[BAGTIC]

NoZombies, What kind of rifle action for your .32 ACP? I have been interested in a small game gun for cast bullets and the 32 ACP seems about ideal. I have a couple extra Rossi 22/410 switch barrel guns and Have been trying to figure how to convert one of them.

[Jeff Michel]

Thanks for the heads up. Other than slight peening at the point on the rail that you indicated, it looks OK for now. I hate to retire the old girl, my favorite summer carry gun but your evidence speaks volumes.