First Time "smelting" Success + a possible screw up

[PerpetualStudent]

So I've been bugging you guys for the last few 9 months with questions, and I'd been lurking for a few months before that. Read "From Ingot to Target", watched some of your videos and started amassing my stuff. Asked a roofer and a plumber for lead scrap and no dice but then I asked a tire shop for wheel wieghts and I got 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket.

Took me 3 hours to sort it but I got it all sorted (so I thought- see the question below).

Today I took my 1$ hotplate (1100 watts), my 4$ rusted cast iron frying pan, my 1$ mini muffin molds, and my free Lee Dipper I lucked into and got to work. I put on my "working with lead" clothes long sleeved shirt and jeans that I keep in the garage. 176600

Leather gloves and eye protection (already had on hand)

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I melted in the frying pan, stirred, and removed all the carp (see the attached thumbnail, oddly won't let me insert more inline photos) Continuing in next post

[PerpetualStudent]

I used wood chips to "flux" the mix. 3 times.

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Lit them on fire, mixed the ashes in as best I could and then skimmed everything off the top to get a mirror finish.

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I poured from the frying pan directly. The sloshing was a little more than I expected but easy enough to handle. I waited longer than I thought was necessary and the lead ingots dropped right off.

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It took me 3 batches to "smelt" it all. I marked each batch of ingots so I know which smelt they're from

[PerpetualStudent]

Now for the possible screw up.


For the final batch, I dropped in all the wheelweights I had left. I noticed it seemed to be taking longer to melt. I just attributed that to more clips (this last batch had lots of small ones). I also noticed the edges seemed to have a mushy kind of alloy while the center was liquid. Thought this might have been me turning the element on and off (when I noticed bubbling like it was about to boil I switched off for a while and then back on).

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That stuff stuck and solidified to the edge of the pan while I poured.

My thought is I may have missed some zinc. I know which of my ingots might have this. Should I discard those and only use the ones I didn't have the issue with?

This lead will be poured into .360 roundball and are destined to be shot as buckshot and catsneeze loads in a revolver. Given that, should I go ahead and use it? The actual casting will be done with a lee bottom pour pot. My original plan was drop an ingot from each batch to spread out differences in the alloy. But I don't know about this last batch of ingots.

[twc1964]

Test your ingots with muratic acid. You can find it at supply stores or hardware stores. If you have zinc in em, they should bubble a bit.

[PerpetualStudent]

I hate to waste any of my alloy since I've put 5 hours into this. Would it matter if there is some zinc since I'm just making roundballs?

[William Yanda]

If your roundballs need to be soft lead, any zinc included will make them harder.

[PerpetualStudent]

Well, some of these will be used as buckshot. A little extra hardness there won't be a problem, in fact it'd be desirable.

However I also want to shoot gallery loads in my .357 and that needs to swage down .003. And I really don't know some zinc would affect that.

[mold maker]

Lead with zinc in it casts lighter than normal boolits that are also harder, determined by the amount of contamination.
Pool supply and masonry supply stores, as well as building suppplys, have acids that can easily test for zinc.

[Yodogsandman]

Glad it was only a small fry pan that you used. A larger fry pan could have possibly overcome your strength and burned you badly when it sloshed.

The boiling was probably just a very small amount of moisture steaming off while the pot heated. I've had some good burns from the bottom of the bucket of WW with the moisture that settles there. Your set up was with a lower heat source than most of us use and any wheel weights made of zinc would have surely be seen floating on the surface for awhile. While heating the last batch, did you see any wheel weights that seemed to defy melting? That crusty stuff was probably just alloy that was too cool around the edge. That acid test would prove to you that no zinc exists in your alloy, though. A Q-tip of hydrochloric acid from an old car battery will work.

Next time you smelt, if you separate out the stick on wheel weights, they will be a softer lead. Check out BNE's sticky showing the soft/hard ones.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?229666-Stick-On-WW-XrF-Data

You should have fun shooting the buckshot and pistol loads! That alloy should be great for most your casting needs. That includes revolver loads, pistol loads, rifle loads and shotgun shot. It should run about 97/2.5/.5, lead/antimony/tin with an approximate BHN of 11 or 12 after the boolits age harden for about 3 weeks. Enjoy and congratulations!

[RogerDat]

Find out first what you are dealing with, drain cleaner or acid etch for concrete with muriatic acid will fizz up on zinc, won't on lead. Then you will begin to know what you are dealing with. Zinc or no zinc.

Entirely possible your hot plate was just struggling to make or hold proper temp. Small WW's = more clips, more clips you pull out when skimming the more heat you remove. Too little heat from source (hot plate) can give you a molten center but edges lose too much heat so they won't be liquid. I have had that with known good alloy. Even being later in evening with cooler air temps or more breeze can make a difference with a hot plate. Temp is there but the BTU's of heat are not as high from a hot plate as a big propane burner. Higher wattage probably helps but he 750 watt ones are doubtful for most smelting.

With zinc how much zinc matters, a tiny percentage won't hurt much. More can get tougher, at around 4 - 5 percent zinc it starts to be hard to use for bullets. I would expect zinc being harder would make sizing down the cast boolit more difficult, I can tell the difference between hard rifle alloy and softer pistol alloy but then I do my sizing on a smaller C press so I don't get as much leverage and would feel resistance more.

[PerpetualStudent]

Ok. It makes sense that my setup might have just been struggling, especially removing the clips. I didn't see any floating/resisting melting weights and any questionable weight I found while sorting got the tin snips and if I didn't put a good dent in it, it went to the zinc pile. I'll see about getting some of that acid to be sure.

Yes the small frying pan was chosen exactly so that I didn't have 30lbs of lead sloshing around. Also why I was smelting over brick pavers. I had read the threads about using electric hotplate setups (because I don't want to pay for the propane) and made sure to get an old high wattage one. And while I was looking for the frying pan I was specifically looking for one about the same size as the element for efficient heat transmission. I had originally thought that would be too small but after seeing how small the lyman 10lb cast iron bucket is, I rethought that and decided small was fine. The one I chose is as large as I would dare. And even then especially the first batch I did with about a quarter of it filled. I may have gone up a bit for the other two but I tried to approach the whole affair carefully.

I did pull out the stick on wheel weights, not many that weren't obvious steel. As I accrue more I hope to do a SOWW only cleaning and casting.

[shoot-n-lead]

I see no mention of the most important piece of equipment...to know what you are doing...a THERMOMETER.

[PerpetualStudent]

*digs toe into ground*

That's cause I don't have one yet....
Been hesitant to bite the bullet and order one until I found out if I actually could smelt with my setup. And was kind of hoping to not buy it until I started casting the more unforgiving bullets rather than balls.

[shoot-n-lead]

*digs toe into ground*

That's cause I don't have one yet....
Been hesitant to bite the bullet and order one until I found out if I actually could smelt with my setup. And was kind of hoping to not buy it until I started casting the more unforgiving bullets rather than balls.

Lots of folks have cast without one...but it sure makes it easier on the learning curve.

In other words...well worth the price.

[NyFirefighter357]

I'm sure you didn't get that pan hot enough to melt Zn. Between the cast iron and lead, that little burner is struggling to keep up and the edges are cold. I have the same problem with my cast iron dutch oven when I turn my fryer lower or add a lot of lead at once. Any Zn that landed in my pot just sat on top I couldn't even get them to melt I tried.

[country gent]

For muzzle loader round balls you want almost pure lead with very little antimony and maybe a little tin to aid fillout. Something around 40-1 or 50-1. Wheelweights will be much harder To get expansion ( if hunting) and may be harder to load. I to think you set up may have been at it upper limits for melting lead let alone Zinc. Check with the acid test also a tap may show a diffrent sound to the ingots. Not real precise but gives an very rough idea.

[bumpo628]

*digs toe into ground*

That's cause I don't have one yet....
Been hesitant to bite the bullet and order one until I found out if I actually could smelt with my setup. And was kind of hoping to not buy it until I started casting the more unforgiving bullets rather than balls.

Here is a good place to get one:
http://www.kck.com/tel-tru_grill_smoker_thermometer.html

I'd get one that goes up to 1000 degrees, like this one: BBQ-TT-200-5-200/1000

[lightman]

I'm another that thinks your set-up probably had a problem with producing enough heat to keep up and that you probably did not melt any zinc. As others have stated, a test with some acid will confirm if you do have any zinc in your ingots. You're off to a good start!

[Yodogsandman]

I've never used a thermometer for rendering WW. I realize that temperatures should be kept well below the zinc melting point of about 780*F. I stick the TC probe from my PID into the melting pot to give me the alloys temp.

[Walter Laich]

When I've had zinc in my alloys I just skim it off the top and keep going. what little remains never seems to be a problem.

I would try a couple of ingots and see what happens. You can always remelt them if they don't work

[MaryB]

Set them aside and blend 1 at a time into 10 others and dilute it so far the zinc that may be there is not an issue.

[William Yanda]

The $40 lead thermometer is not necessary. I found a grill thermometer that goes to 1000 degrees for less than $15.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I would bet there isn't any zinc in it ,because he wouldn't have been able to melt it like the others have already ssaid.

[PerpetualStudent]

Well, I got some muriatic acid and tested all 3 batches of ingots as well as the questionable scraps. No fizzing at all, so you guys were right. Just my heater getting done for the day.

For now that lil heater is adequate for the small batches I'm doing, once it gives up the ghost I'll consider upgrading. Thanks again for all the help.