Lil' Gun discontinuied?

[LeftyDon]

I just received an email from MidwayUSA regarding Lil'Gun powder being discontinued. Don't know if just not being stocked at Midway or discontinued in general. Anyone have the straight skinny?

[Texas by God]

Say it aint so Joe! Best, Thomas.

[mold maker]

It appears several powder companies are making big changes to the lineup of products. Many old names are being dropped and some newer names introduced.
Is it just economics, demand, or is something afoot that hasn't yet been discussed?
It appears some holes will be left in our choices.

[dragon813gt]

Contact Hodgdon to find out if it's discontinued. It has it's place in 410 shot shells so I find it hard to believe they'd drop it from the lineup. Or maybe they finally realized it really is a "hot" powder and removing it from the market.

[NoAngel]

I don't dispute it, but it's hard to believe. Lil'gun is THE powder for 300 BLK. BUT, the world has lost it's mind so who knows.

[dualsport]

It's good in the .22 Hornet too.

[shoot-n-lead]

It's good in the .22 Hornet too.

It sure is...

[bgmkithaca]

I don't know if it is discontinued or not but my local dealer just got 6 Lbs. of it today.

[HangFireW8]

It appears several powder companies are making big changes to the lineup of products. Many old names are being dropped and some newer names introduced.
Is it just economics, demand, or is something afoot that hasn't yet been discussed?
It appears some holes will be left in our choices.

Some powders exist only as military overruns and are sold until exhausted. With all the panic buying, some powders are selling out fast. AA's entire lineup was like that until they got big enough to secure regular production.

[Pumpkinheaver]

A local dealer just got some last week. I'd bet Midway is just discontinuing it and not the manufacturer.

[Blackwater]

I'm pretty much with NoAngel on this. And I've heard the Obama admin's EPA folks and everyone he can enlist in the "purge" is doing all they can to inhibit the production and manufacture of guns and all their service businesses when and wherever they can. What I heard is some of the chemicals used in powder manufacture are "eco-unfriendly," and they're trying to, if not eliminate, then at least make ammo more and more expensive, so fewer and fewer folks can afford it.

Is all that true? If not, it's sure missed a really good opportunity to be true! So much these days, goes on behind the curtain, just like in "The Wizard of Oz," that we can't be absolutely sure of a great deal that is going on today. But we've still got the best gov't "money can buy" though! When "we the people" stop caring what gov't does, gov't tends to really hit its stride, and accelerate to "wide open!" It's an embarassing situation but a very real one, I'm afraid.

[SSGOldfart]

My dealer always calls when something is dropped,because he knows I'll take what he has on hand most of the time,my[smilie=1: storage space has almost reached its limits.:coffeecom

[leeggen]

An email or phone call to midway would clear all this hollibaloo up!!!!! Where is the Midway boss anyway, have not heard himm on here for awhile.
CD

[quail4jake]

Great in .45 LC and .32-20 fast loads...I hope it isn't going away!

[Lloyd Smale]

count me amongst the numbers who wont miss its passing.

[quail4jake]

I'm interested to know, Lloyd, have you had a problem with Lilgun?

count me amongst the numbers who wont miss its passing.

[Mr Humble]

I just bought an 8 pound cannister from powder valley (the ONLY place to buy powder).

[Lloyd Smale]

yup it burns to hot. Little informal test I did with my 50 Beowulf. 7 shots as fast as I could shoot them with lilgun and you could have about lit a cigarette off my barrel. It was smoking the whole length. I let it cool and shot 7 more again as fast as I could with wc297 and I could put my fingers on the barrel for a second or two. No smoke what so ever. I know that bob baker of freedom arms wont even warrantee a gun that has used it because it does quick damage to the forcing cones. Might be fine in something like a 22 hornet or 3220 that is shot very slowly but even in them theres powders that are just as good without the heat problem so why would I even bother putting it in the powder cabinet. 110, 296, wc297, aa9, all are better choices
I'm interested to know, Lloyd, have you had a problem with Lilgun?

[Hickory]

I guess the answer to using Li'gun is to not machine gun it through you firearm, and you won't have any problems.

[sargenv]

I'm tending to like it in high velocity steel and ITX loading for the sub gauges..20, 28, and 410..

[Rick Hodges]

It does wonders in the Hornet...mine is a TC Contender carbine so no change to "machine gun" it through there...very accurate and very very good velocities. The good thing is a couple of pounds of it is a lifetime supply for the Hornet.

[dragon813gt]

I guess the answer to using Li'gun is to not machine gun it through you firearm, and you won't have any problems.

Nope, the erosion issues happen regardless of how fast you're firing the gun. Lots of people love it in lever actions. I had the same results as Lloyd after a mag dump in an 1894C. Just not worth the potential issues IMO.

[Mr Humble]

I call bull ****. This Bob Baker .... does he have second sight ? How will he KNOW that I used Lil Gun ?

Let's see the side by side tests of several powders with the same performance as Lil Gun by an independent lab PROVING that it is more erosive. (Don't hold your breath!)

"I could not touch the barrel." That is a true lab result ! If I run 5 12 bore low base shells thru my 870 as fast as I can, I don't touch the barrel either.

And ..... it is still available ..... Midway is not the sole source supplier of gun powder in the USA !

I have to leave now to shoot the Zombies off my roof......

[Lloyd Smale]

If youd even have met bob baker you wouldn't say that. Hes a very honest man. The reason he would know is that he asked the owners what they shot in them when he first started seeing the damage. Now if your the type that would lie about what you shot you surely could get away with it.

[Greg S]

I'll second Lloyd's observation on the Lil Gun loading in the 50 Beowulf. The barrel is smoking hot after 7 rounds.

[Mr Humble]

So we agree that rapid fire in a semi auto rifle heats up the barrel.

I'll await some proof.

[dragon813gt]

You are years behind. The information is out there. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not. Erosion issues were confirmed and it didn't take many shots. Like I said, it's up to you to do the research and decide if you believe the claims or not.

[Mr Humble]

If I believed unsupported claims, I would never shoot my low # 03s, believe Powder Coating would wear out my barrels, would never shoot lead boolits in my M-1, think scope glass made in China was inferior to current USA production, expect to be abducted by a UFO and think Democrats were pro-gun.

When you have some double blind lab tests, I'll listen but for now it works just fine and I don't own a 450 Bushmaster machine gun.

OH yes, contrary to what was stated here, it's not discontinued either.

[Lloyd Smale]

looks like you don't believe anyone on here or bob baker or for that matter anyone anywhere. Maybe the only way youll open your eyes is if you test it yourself. People on here that are giving you advice for actually shooting it are trying to help you. If you want to blindly use it in your sixguns go for it. Your not hurting any of our guns just your own.

[dragon813gt]

Double blind lab tests? Name one that's been done involving reloading. There is no point in discussing this because you don't want to. Even if we gave you exactly what you wanted it wouldn't be good enough. I've dealt w/ plenty of fools in my life to be able to spot one quickly.

In the mean time just google "freedom arms lil gun" and read away.

[Lead Fred]

I just bought the last two cans of Lil Gun at the Tacoma Bass Pro shop.
They said they were going to get more,just didnt know when

[Kevin Rohrer]

The powder is too popular to discontinue. It also works well in .221 Fireball and .458 SOCOM.

And if you look at the powder burn table, it is #62 of 150 and is just north of H110/IMR296, which is not too hot. I call Shenanigans.

[Mr Humble]

"Tits over the back fence" is not where anyone with a 3 digit IQ gets their info.

AND Mr. uniformed, I am not using it in a revolver.

Typical internet, people so anxious to get their 2 cents in that can't even get their facts straight.

Probably believe that "laying on of hands" by some tent preacher is a better diagnosis than seeing a MD.

[dtknowles]

A word to the wise is usually sufficient. Why get all twisted into a pretzel when your advice gets ignored.

I will still use Lil Gun but thoughtfully. Doubt I will burn out my .22 Hornet, if I do I will tell you.

As far as if the warnings are alarmist or appropriate. As has been noted all we have is anecdotal evidence. The severity and extent of the problem has not been quantified. In revolvers in applications where erosion and gas cutting are already an issue the use of Lil Gun is probably contraindicated even with so little hard evidence.

There has got to be a reason that Lil Gun produces higher velocities at lower pressures, there ain't no free lunch. The barrel heating phenomena can only be marginally worse than using ball powders with similar burn rates, powder burning temperatures are constrained to a fairly narrow range due to chemical similarity. Its is not like Lil Gun uses new propellants.

It does not require double blind test to raise a concern or even an alarm. People sharing their experience should not be attacked unless there is a reason to suspect an ulterior motive. If people ignore your advice and attack you for it, a polite reminder of "my experience your mileage may vary" just like a word to the wise should be sufficient.

Tim

[LeftyDon]

I'm sorry I made the OP, I didn't mean to set off a SHTF over usage, just wanted to know if it was still in production. Guess I'll contact Hodgdon.

[Mr Humble]

Lefty IT IS. You can buy it today from Powder Valley.

It's clear that absent any real evidence, this debate is going nowhere. Nobody is going to burn out a 450 BM barrel using cast boolits in any case, so the powder used is immaterial.

[Lloyd Smale]

you have slower burning and hot mixed up. Because a powder is slower burning has nothing to do with how hot it burns or how fast it pushes a projectile. .
The powder is too popular to discontinue. It also works well in .221 Fireball and .458 SOCOM.

And if you look at the powder burn table, it is #62 of 150 and is just north of H110/IMR296, which is not too hot. I call Shenanigans.

[Lloyd Smale]

do you have scientific tests to back up that statement:coffeecom
Lefty IT IS. You can buy it today from Powder Valley.

It's clear that absent any real evidence, this debate is going nowhere. Nobody is going to burn out a 450 BM barrel using cast boolits in any case, so the powder used is immaterial.

[762sultan]

Mr. Humble:
I invite you to do a test for the CastBoolit forum. I would like to see you shoot a gun of your choice in a torture test of several thousand rounds. This may shed some light on the problem at hand. By shooting strings of 8 or 10 rounds every 15 minutes or so for 5 strings and doing this on a weekly basis it may show some effect of barrel erosion...or none at all. It could be viewed with the use of a barrel scope which are available on Ebay. This would put to rest any debate on this confusion of the use of this powder.

[Jeff Michel]

I've discontinued using Lil' Gun in my hornets. Although it did produce good accuracy with outward signs of low pressure, I had punctured primers on too many occasions to be a coincidence. This was occurring in three different rifles. I never saw this phenomenon with 2400, IMR4227 or W296. It seemed to me that something wasn't exactly stable in the pressure department. Has anyone else experienced this issue?

[Mr Humble]

Well 762, I'd be happy to do that as soon as you send me $5000 to buy the two rifles and all the components. (I won't hold my breath....) LOL !

[M-Tecs]

Just emailed Chris Hodgdon on the status of Lil'Gun.

I will post his reply when he responds unless he want to post it himself. I included a link to this thread.

I love it for my Hornets.

[M-Tecs]

From Chris Hodgdon

"No sir, Lil’Gun is alive and well. There will be no powders discontinued for 2017 but will have quite a few new ones

Thank you for your interest in Hodgdon and feel free to get back to me if I can be of further service

Regards Chris"

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

From Chris Hodgdon

"No sir, Lil’Gun is alive and well. There will be no powders discontinued for 2017 but will have quite a few new ones

Thank you for your interest in Hodgdon and feel free to get back to me if I can be of further service

Regards Chris"

Finally, the definitive answer to the OP.

Why did everyone go off on a tangent about whether or not Lil'Gun burns "hotter" than other powders? It has nothing to do with the OP.

[Mr Humble]

Simple, because "experts" have to be heard, even lacking any evidence.

[brstevns]

Old post, but I just picked up a lb from LGS last week

[HamGunner]

Lil'Gun contains a higher amount of nitroglycerin than most powders of it's burn rate. Thus the heat. And yes, I agree that it is very hot burning.

Short bullets fired in revolvers were the reason for throat erosion with max charges of 296/H-110 and perhaps other slower burning ball type powders due to the rear of the bullet crossing the cylinder gap before the bullet was even half way finished being pressed into the bore. The answer to that problem was to either use another powder or longer bullets in revolvers, specifically the .357 Mag.

Nothing whatsoever wrong with Lil'Gun. It has lots of great uses. But it might not be the best for many other uses. No powder is perfect for all, except maybe real ole home made Black Powder. :)

[imashooter2]

Old post, but I just picked up a lb from LGS last week

5 year old necrothread with the rumor debunked by the manufacturer themselves and you post you found a pound? [smilie=l:

Ban him. :kidding:

[jonp]

I've discontinued using Lil' Gun in my hornets. Although it did produce good accuracy with outward signs of low pressure, I had punctured primers on too many occasions to be a coincidence. This was occurring in three different rifles. I never saw this phenomenon with 2400, IMR4227 or W296. It seemed to me that something wasn't exactly stable in the pressure department. Has anyone else experienced this issue?


5 year old necrothread with the rumor debunked by the manufacturer themselves and you post you found a pound? [smilie=l:

Ban him. :kidding:

Finding any useful powder at this point is reason enough to raise the dead.

Ive read far too many accounts of cutting and erosion from this powder in revolvers to entirely discount it. Never used it but id be cautious if i did. As for rifles, no idea but id be surprised if it burned barrels in any reasonable loading. If anyone has rifle information id like to hear about it out of curiosity.

[1006]

All that I have gleaned from this and other internet discussions is that LilGun probably should not be used in revolvers. I use it in the 300BLK and it does heat the barrel more than other powders, but I have not seen any damage to my barrel, and have been using the primer flattening and case head measurements of fired brass as my pressure indicators.

So far, it has been the most gentle of powders to my fired cases.