Catastrophe averted thanks to Cast Boolits.

[NyFirefighter357]

I'm new to reloading as well as casting. I decided I wanted to make my own ammo. I did my "research" and watched a lot of Y-Tube videos, bought a reloading system & components. After a few nights I knew what I was doing. Not having reloaded before I didn't have a place to set up, but I needed to put my new found knowledge to work. I set up in my kitchen, everyone wanted to watch and help me play with my new toy. Always wanting to allow the kids to help & learn, I allowed them to use the shiny new turret press with my supervision. Everyone got a couple of turns. We did great, a couple hundred .223 Rem loaded in a couple of hours. I put it all away and worked on getting more components. After more time on the "interweb", I found Cast Boolits. I though this is great I can make my own bullets. I lurked in the background for months and then joined. This place is a wealth of knowledge, the people are great and always helpful. After reading daily posts and talking in the chat I soon realized with much embarrassment, those loads we made during our reloading party were not safe to shoot. Too many people, too many distractions just too much going on. What do I do now? I decided to weigh them, I know case weight differs but if it was + or - a grain off the average loaded cartridge I was confident it was OK. I found several things, first about 15 didn't have properly seated primers, some wouldn't stand on their own. I also found about 10-15 that where between +2gr & +8gr I pulled them as well. These have all the same head stamping and I'm sure they will check out fine just heavy brass but not taking a chance. The third problem I found was a light load, 22gr light as a matter of fact. The same as the powder charge. I'm sure that when I fired the squib I would have manually ejected and put the next round down that barrel causing injury to me the rifle or both. I have learned a lesson, this isn't a game, my reloading equipment aren't toys and this is serious business that should be done alone with no distractions.
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, I hope that someday I will know a tenth of the knowledge you share.
Jason

[corbinace]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as you have well learned. You will fit in just fine with your sharing attitude. Good luck in your future endeavors.

[Wayne Smith]

Excellent self awareness. You have learned a valuable lesson, but you have also gotten the kids interested in loading. So now it is time to show each of them the mistakes and the likely results - and how you caught them. In other words, pass on what you have learned. Teach them to do it right and be equally self aware and you will have passed on another generation of safer reloaders.

[randyrat]

I quit loading immediately when someone wants to talk or I get interrupted. Finish the last round, put things away so they are safe for the next time I start loading, never multitask with reloading. Never say; I'll remember what powder that is etc...

If you want to teach someone to reload, allow them time to read a beginning load book. If they don't study it a bit and have a lot of questions, they are not interested.

I started about 39 years ago by reading and had no one to ask questions, no internet. I read the safety stuff and it scarred me and it should. (39 years of reloading and I still have lots of questions)

You did the right thing, a 223 rd / 62,000 PSI / Bomb

[OS OK]

When you have a couple of years under your belt...'successfully loading on your own', then you might consider teaching others. Until then it's 'the blind leading the blind'.
Because one may purchase all the necessary components to load doesn't have any bearing on whether or not you are capable...spend time in your apprenticeship and never have to look back with regrets.

[MrWolf]

I quit loading immediately when someone wants to talk or I get interrupted. Finish the last round, put things away so they are safe for the next time I start loading, never multitask with reloading. Never say; I'll remember what powder that is etc...


+1 on this. Had it happen where just a second turned out a heck of a lot longer than that. When I got back to it I could not remember what powder I was using but got in the habit (from this site) of leaving the powder jug I am working with on the bench and only that jug on the bench.

[Lead Fred]

I have my own room, with a lock on the door. Last night I was loading up some 230gr cast for the 300BO, and the phone rang. (which is in the next room for static reasons)
After the call I finished powdering them up. then I check down inside each one. For the first time in decades, I had an empty case amongst the filled ones.
Now I shut the phone off too.

[standles]

One of my standard practices is to take blue painters tape and write the powder and charge on it. I then affix the tape to the hopper on the powder dispenser. Additionally, I take the empty box of the primer and slide it over the primer tube. I load progressive so if I get interrupted I either finish the progression or when I return remove every case and start series from beginning.

[Blackwater]

Kudos to you for noticing, Jason! NOW you've got exactly the right attitude about reloading. It's actually a good thing to have your first "accident" early one, as you did, provided that it doesn't cause any harm. One incident like this, and it's VERY hard to forget what it is we're really doing, and how serious it truly is.

Many new to reloading and casting seem to regard it as "fun" to make your own bullets and ammo, and indeed it is, in a way, but it's ALSO a very serious and potentially consequential pursuit as well. Most newbies just want to get-r-done as quickly and with a minimal amount of "fuss and bother," and in so doing, they deprive themselves of the deeper understanding of the process, and why things have to be done in the way they are normally done. This often leads them to either poor ammo quality or into accidents that CAN cause harm to themselves or others around them. And that's no small thing! Good on ya' for payin' attention so closely!

[Half Dog]

That was well written. I, like others, don't stop till I'm done. I've learned that if I say "I can remember where I left off" it is a guarantee that I'll forget.

Glad your staying with it and learning.

[quilbilly]

Excellent self awareness. You have learned a valuable lesson, but you have also gotten the kids interested in loading. So now it is time to show each of them the mistakes and the likely results - and how you caught them. In other words, pass on what you have learned. Teach them to do it right and be equally self aware and you will have passed on another generation of safer reloaders.
I absolutely agree. Also use the opportunity to explain to your kids why you must be left alone while you are reloading so their dad will remain safe. Since you are reloading 223's, you might consider getting one of those Lyman hand reamers for those primer pockets. I often have the same problem with my 223 brass.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I've been loading since the early 70's and last night while loading a bunch of .30 Carbine on a progressive press, one didn't look right. Weighed the charge and it was several grains above what I was supposed to be loading. Go back, pull almost 30 bullets and weigh each charge. Turned out just the one was an over load, but I don't want to wreck a 1942 Underwood carbine! Back to the loading, it happened again shortly after checking things out! Pull the powder measure and replace it with another...problem solved! (I still pulled a bunch of bullets) Thankfully I have a Powder Cop positioned right after the measure.

[merlin101]

"I have learned a lesson, this isn't a game, my reloading equipment aren't toys and this is serious business that should be done alone with no distractions."

Wow! Look at that, you already show more knowledge then a lot of shooters/reloaders do with YEARS of experience. Way to go!

[smokeywolf]

NyFirefighter357, I don't see any mention of studying reloading manuals. I strongly recommend acquiring at least 2; Lyman Reloading Handbook and one more. Don't trust the internet as a sole source of reloading info.

Establish a routine before including the kids in your reloading endeavors. Your idea to weigh your completed cartridges was a good one. It is a measure I take with all completed rounds.

Throughout the process I usually handle and inspect cases at least 4 times.
1) Brass gets deprimed.
2) Brass cleaned or at least primer pockets cleaned (new brass deburred).
3) Cases primed.
4) Charges thrown, boolit seated.
5) Completed cartridges wiped and weighed.

Every two or three reloadings, cases get measured and if needed, trimmed.

Mistakes in reloading can be as unforgiving as allowing the muzzle of your firearm to cover something you don't want dead.

There are lots of little details to learn that can make the difference between a picture perfect day at the range and an ambulance ride to the hospital.

Learn the differences between rifle and pistol primers.
Learn what powder bridging is.
Learn about S.E.E. or Secondary Explosion Effect.

[RogerDat]

The box from the primers in use and jug with powder in use are the only ones on the bench.

I would add only one person on the press, and only one person being tutored or shown how. If you are showing then you run the press if they are performing operations then they stay on the press and you provide over watch and guidance until stage of reloading is complete or round is completed, including any and all check operations. Great to show the kids (or grandkids) but best to make it one on one. And 100% check of primer, powder load visual level on all with scale as double check as appropriate, seating COAL check. I would also involve them in case preparation and checking that takes place before reloading, just in small doses of a few cases because that part is boring.

Last but not least I would keep the ammo made by each learning reloader and yourself in individual boxes or containers clearly labeled with maker and date. Good for satisfaction in shooting "your" ammo, and also good for catching mistakes as learning experience, what did Billy do that allowed this squib load? And keeping any problems isolated. Ammo box with 500 rounds in it and you find a squib or bad primer seating you have 500 suspect rounds. Kid makes box of 100 you only have 100 to check and know which kid needs more support and instruction on exactly what step.

[Yodogsandman]

Glad you caught the problems before shooting them! Good catch! Now be forever vigilant, **** happens.

I only let my 5 year old grandson try to size cases. No working with powder or primers for a long time yet. Went in the barn one day and found a 30-06 case sized down to a .308 case. What??? Found out later that someone let him in the barn and I figured that he wanted to pull the handle on a case himself without me. So he must have grabbed just any ol' case and did it before any one saw him. So, secure your stuff, too.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I could never load with an audience and I've been at it for a little over a decade.

I've had a couple friends that wanted me to teach them to reload ammo and first they wanted to watch me load ammo and give them pointers while doing so. I could never so that, BUT I did instruct them to read a reloading manual and then come on over. Of course they never read a manual, and when they came over, they were greatly disappointed when I gave them a tour of my reloading room, but no demonstration. I told them again, to read a manual, and I'd help them setup and load on my press. That was a couple years ago, and they haven't mentioned it ever since.

[Blackwater]

That seems to be the way of it these days, Jon. I helped a young fella my son's age, and he was all gung ho to make "cheap ammo." In the fullest sense of the word "cheap." He'd done shotgun reloading before a fair bit, but had never loaded metallic, and from what I can gather, someone else set up his shotgun press for him and adjusted everything just so, and basically, all he did was pull the handle. At least he knew to ask about different powders, and that different powders called for different charges and adjustments on the tools. Like most of the yuppie class, he wanted to do things quick ("down and dirty" seems to be a common description). No time to worry about reading manuals. He was too busy working, playing with friends and family, and shooting. No time to do much reading! He got an AR-10, and I told him he'd have to lube the inside of the case necks (1x fired mil. brass) and remove the primer crimp. "He said I understand. I'll do that." I explained the REASON was that the expander ball often pulled the necks out just long enough that they often won't chamber. He said he understood and would comply. He didn't. First batch, half his ammo couldn't be chambered. I asked if he'd lubed the inside of the case necks, and he said, "No, I didn't see where that was needed." I reviewed the reason I told him that to start with, and then asked him if he understood why it's important now. He said, "I guess so." And he hated it, or doing anything else that wasn't absolutely necessary to produce ammo that "looked good" to the naked eye. But he's learned - slowly and via bitter experience, but he's learning. Last number of times he's loaded for his AR-10, he's had zero malfunctions. He still won't try ladder style loads with one powder at a time to see what loads work well in his rifles, though. He just tries to divine his loads, calls me to ask what I'd try, or uses data from other tyros like himself who say certain loads work well for them. But in doing so, he never asks what kind of accuracy/groups they call "doing well."

He's bright, but he's hard-headed as three goats! But he at least has the asset of being able to learn, and admit when he's wrong, and demonstrably so. I still won't shoot his loads, and am not entirely comfortable being behind him when he's shooting, but he's come a long way in his attitude. He still doesn't like doing things that he doesn't want to accept are necessary, but like it or not, he's learning.

Teaching the yuppie types can be a pain, but he's so darn good natured otherwise, it'd be impossible for me to turn him down. And he's even gone back, now, and read the manuals! I really didn't honestly think he'd ever do that, but he's humble enough to know what he needs, and not inalterably tied to believing what he WANTS to believe, rather than what's demonstrably true. Ornery rascal kind'a reminds me of ..... me!!! Once upon a time. And it helps, obviously, when he knows I'm trying to HELP him and make his efforts pay off, and not have them be wasted on ammo that doesn't work or won't shoot. Experience is the best teacher for us all. He still calls me before he loads any large batches of ammo. Can't get him to load a small batch first, and bench test them, but he's learning .... slowly, but he's learning.

[opos]

Been loading a long time and loading is my absolute private time...I load in the garage..there is no TV, no Computer and I shut the phone off...The door is closed and only in case of a dire emergency does my wife interrupt my loading..we both have hobbies that require concentration and loading is mine.

I have looked in on some of the youtube videos from time to time and while some are really fine there are a bunch of them that are apparently brand new loaders that want to "spread the word"...I see dogs ambling through...people (including kids) in the room and many unwritten "rules" being broken a lot...I grew up learing to load in the late 50's and early 60's...there was no web and very little literature...guys that loaded usually got aquainted at the range and got to share their hobby together...load development often meant tying the rifle to a spare tire out of the trunk and firing it with a cord....we just felt our way...

The manuals for both bullet and powder companies have a lot of variation and that can be confusing but if you take time...load small quantity "ladders" starting at a published lower recipe and slowly work up and check your work..you will soon find "standard loads" that you will rely on...I have a 7x57 Mauser Mark X Interarms that is a wonderful rifle....I played with loads for several months...a few at a time...I now have what is the "perfect load" for that rifle and the way I load...don't fool around with it...just load it and enjoy...that works for me.

It's tempting to involve other folks and I will offer but only to folks that listen and are truly interested in the hobby...the new person that wants to spend a grand on some high end progressive loader to learn on and start off with some internet loads for his 223 will have to go somewhere else for help. Like learning to fly an airplane..you can learn the basics in a trainer and then slowly upgrade your skills and probably become a proficient and safe pilot or go buy some high end hot shot complex aircraft because "you can afford it" and possibly plant it firmly into a corn field when bad things happen...Good luck and load safe

[OS OK]

That seems to be the way of it these days, Jon. I helped a young fella my son's age, and he was all gung ho to make "cheap ammo." In the fullest sense of the word "cheap." He'd done shotgun reloading before a fair bit, but had never loaded metallic, and from what I can gather, someone else set up his shotgun press for him and adjusted everything just so, and basically, all he did was pull the handle. At least he knew to ask about different powders, and that different powders called for different charges and adjustments on the tools. Like most of the yuppie class, he wanted to do things quick ("down and dirty" seems to be a common description). No time to worry about reading manuals. He was too busy working, playing with friends and family, and shooting. No time to do much reading! He got an AR-10, and I told him he'd have to lube the inside of the case necks (1x fired mil. brass) and remove the primer crimp. "He said I understand. I'll do that." I explained the REASON was that the expander ball often pulled the necks out just long enough that they often won't chamber. He said he understood and would comply. He didn't. First batch, half his ammo couldn't be chambered. I asked if he'd lubed the inside of the case necks, and he said, "No, I didn't see where that was needed." I reviewed the reason I told him that to start with, and then asked him if he understood why it's important now. He said, "I guess so." And he hated it, or doing anything else that wasn't absolutely necessary to produce ammo that "looked good" to the naked eye. But he's learned - slowly and via bitter experience, but he's learning. Last number of times he's loaded for his AR-10, he's had zero malfunctions. He still won't try ladder style loads with one powder at a time to see what loads work well in his rifles, though. He just tries to divine his loads, calls me to ask what I'd try, or uses data from other tyros like himself who say certain loads work well for them. But in doing so, he never asks what kind of accuracy/groups they call "doing well."

He's bright, but he's hard-headed as three goats! But he at least has the asset of being able to learn, and admit when he's wrong, and demonstrably so. I still won't shoot his loads, and am not entirely comfortable being behind him when he's shooting, but he's come a long way in his attitude. He still doesn't like doing things that he doesn't want to accept are necessary, but like it or not, he's learning.

Teaching the yuppie types can be a pain, but he's so darn good natured otherwise, it'd be impossible for me to turn him down. And he's even gone back, now, and read the manuals! I really didn't honestly think he'd ever do that, but he's humble enough to know what he needs, and not inalterably tied to believing what he WANTS to believe, rather than what's demonstrably true. Ornery rascal kind'a reminds me of ..... me!!! Once upon a time. And it helps, obviously, when he knows I'm trying to HELP him and make his efforts pay off, and not have them be wasted on ammo that doesn't work or won't shoot. Experience is the best teacher for us all. He still calls me before he loads any large batches of ammo. Can't get him to load a small batch first, and bench test them, but he's learning .... slowly, but he's learning.

You certainly have the 'patience of a grandmother' Dennis, an admirable quality for certain but, I doubt that you will live long enough to see this 'half stepper' go from an 'assembler of components' to a true 'handloader'.
Half stepping will never get you across the goal line, never.
When he finally has a slam fire and if he recovers from that...'He will see the light, providing he can still see.'

Good luck with this one Dennis!

charlie

[Smoke4320]

Jason
I commend you for stepping forward with your story.. You learned much in your short time..

the following is meant as a help.. please do not take it as condescending Its not meant to be ..

Reload BY YOURSELF. no distractions.. Know you want to share but you need much more time to learn and get procedures engrained
Keep you mind on what you are doing.
Only one powder on the bench while loading.
When done with that batch clean everything up.. Put powder and primers away
ALWAYS refer back to your load data with starting a batch/session.. never try to remember the load
confirms ANY load data in at least 2 TRUSTED places (load books, online manuals ect) and more if possible. Many many U-tube videos are full of misinformation
I put load cards in every container with loaded rds
congrads on picking up the hobby .. It can be fun and rewarding ...safety FIRST !!!

[Echo]

Jason, I believe this is the best forum on the web. The help, and understanding, are rare, and right on. I've only been on a few years, have been reloading for many decades, and casting almost as long, and I'm still learning - and this is the place for it.

[victorfox]

Welcome. I couldn't see if someone suggested it before, but since you noticed a mistake, time to disassemble the ammo and reload it. Also, get a manual, as suggested, as well as the powder brochures available at powder maker's site. Be safe.