I am back in the 32-20 handgun business....

[Harry O]

Managed to score two pounds of SR 4756 today at a farm auction. One can was definitely unopened and dated at 2004 by the former owner. The other one was probably unopened and dated 2002. The contents match my remaining 2oz of SR 4756 perfectly (comparing them with a 20x magnifier), so it did not get switched with a different powder. His other handloading equipment and handloads were clean, well marked, and well taken care of. I believe it was probably stored well.

I overpaid for them, but I wanted them badly. Anyway, I can get back to reloading 6.0gr of SR 4756 with a 100gr Hornady XTP or a 311008 for a few more years. I picked up a few other things, but reloading stuff goes for more than I would have expected.

[Bent Ramrod]

Good for you! I glom onto those pale green cans whenever they show themselves. Haven't tried it in the .25-20 and don't have a .38-40, but 4756 is the cat's meow for the two other hyphenated rifle/pistol calibers.

[Oyeboten]

Managed to score two pounds of SR 4756 today at a farm auction. One can was definitely unopened and dated at 2004 by the former owner. The other one was probably unopened and dated 2002. The contents match my remaining 2oz of SR 4756 perfectly (comparing them with a 20x magnifier), so it did not get switched with a different powder. His other handloading equipment and handloads were clean, well marked, and well taken care of. I believe it was probably stored well.

I overpaid for them, but I wanted them badly. Anyway, I can get back to reloading 6.0gr of SR 4756 with a 100gr Hornady XTP or a 311008 for a few more years. I picked up a few other things, but reloading stuff goes for more than I would have expected.


Tell me more please about this Powder for .32 20 Revolver?

I am just now starting to load .32 20 for my m1899 S & W "M & P", and just going with Black Powder for now, but I want to also get in to one or two Smokeless ones for the Cartridge also.

[Harry O]

Bent Ramrod: I have also tried it in the .32 Magnum, .38 Special, and 9mm Luger. It did not give better results in them than the powders I had been using already. However, for the 32-20 in a handgun, it was better than any of the half dozen powders I had already tried for it. I have been using it for that for about 25 years. Unfortunately, I did not find out about the discontinuing of SR 4756 until after it disappeared from shelves. I also have a 32-20 Marlin rifle, but it shoots everything well. I am using 2400 for that one to conserve the SR 4756.

Oyeboten: Sorry, but it is too late. SR 4756 was discontinued 2 or 3 years ago. I ran short between 6 months and a year ago. Since then I have probably hit 2 to 3 dozen gunshops looking for it -- without luck. No luck on the Internet either. It was recommended by Ken Waters who wrote about it in "Pet Loads" many, many years ago. I tried it and found out that he was right. With about 2-1/2 pounds now, 6gr per cartridge will last me for several years.

PS: After overpaying for two unopened cans at the auction, there was a third can with 3 or 4 ounces in it. I got it for $2.50. With the 2 or 3 ounces in the can I had left, there is almost a half pound there to use before going to the full cans.

[Oyeboten]

Bent Ramrod: I have also tried it in the .32 Magnum, .38 Special, and 9mm Luger. It did not give better results in them than the powders I had been using already. However, for the 32-20 in a handgun, it was better than any of the half dozen powders I had already tried for it. I have been using it for that for about 25 years. Unfortunately, I did not find out about the discontinuing of SR 4756 until after it disappeared from shelves. I also have a 32-20 Marlin rifle, but it shoots everything well. I am using 2400 for that one to conserve the SR 4756.

Oyeboten: Sorry, but it is too late. SR 4756 was discontinued 2 or 3 years ago. I ran short between 6 months and a year ago. Since then I have probably hit 2 to 3 dozen gunshops looking for it -- without luck. No luck on the Internet either. It was recommended by Ken Waters who wrote about it in "Pet Loads" many, many years ago. I tried it and found out that he was right. With about 2-1/2 pounds now, 6gr per cartridge will last me for several years.

PS: After overpaying for two unopened cans at the auction, there was a third can with 3 or 4 ounces in it. I got it for $2.50. With the 2 or 3 ounces in the can I had left, there is almost a half pound there to use before going to the full cans.

Thank you..!

I will see if I can find some..!

[Green Frog]

Thank you..!

I will see if I can find some..!

Not to be a wet blanket, but that could be an exercise in frustration. Since the powder is known to be discontinued with apparently no chance of it being revived, you will pay a premium price for a limited supply of it, then after establishing how well you like it you will find it more and more difficult to replace. Better (IMHO) to develop loads you like with currently available powders (and be frustrated later when THEY get discontinued!)

I used 4759 rifle powder for over 20 years and in a rare instance of good fortune had a large supply of it on hand when it was discontinued at the same time as 4756. I also got a few pounds from a friend who had quit shooting rifles, so I have well over 15 pounds of it. I would not have started from scratch to develop loads with a discontinued powder like this but at my age I now have a lifetime supply for the one gun/caliber that "demands" it.

Froggie

PS You might look at Accurate #7 and #9 on their powder charts to see whether either of those works well in the range you want for your 32-20. They are in the same general burn rate, IIRC.

[Bent Ramrod]

The place to find 4756 (and 4759, for that matter) is gun shows. Of course, you can't go to a gun show expecting to find anything specific, but if you keep going to them, the stuff eventually shows up.

I kind of enjoy gun shows, kind of like the way some people enjoy the theater or ballet, and I go with a want list, in addition to just looking and wondering if the rare and unexpected will show itself this time.

4756 and 4759 were specialty powders, and until very late in production only came in 8-oz cans, but a can still shows up every few months (knock on wood). Some obsolete powders have a longevity in this way that is mystifying, if not downright annoying. Every time I'm down to my last few loads worth with Reloder 11, another full can reveals itself at the next gun show. Cans of Hi-Vel #2 also seem to keep popping up. I do note that the old DuPont stuff, in the slab side cans with the glued-on paper labels and the tiny pour spouts in the middle of the tops are going up in price, whatever their contents (or lack thereof), and the square-face painted-label cans with the pop-tops are also trying to move into the "collectible" area, with only limited success so far. So I guess I'm down to my last half can of Pistol #5 and SR-80 (*sob!!*), but so far, Unique, Bullseye and 2400 in the pop tops are still within my budget. (I use the cans for permanent storage, preferring them to the ungainly cardboard cylinders these powders come in now.)

As HarryO implies, buying partial cans of old powders demands a certain level of expertise, judgement, and experience, and always involves a certain level of risk, so I can't recommend it to anybody. But I do it myself on a routine basis. Only got really "burned" once; a can of DuPont #1 Smokeless, sealed up, was found to contain Pyrodex RS. It was a little more expensive than Pyrodex normally is, but would have been a bargain for DuPont #1 Smokeless. I banged the stuff up in a cap&ball revolver and chalked it up to experience.

Somebody give me a canister of something called American Select, which is some kind of high-end shotgun powder. I figured it was a one-off deal, but developed some loads in pistol calibers just to use it up. By the time the can was done, I was pretty impressed. Loads with the stuff seemed to have the accuracy and power of Unique, and were much cleaner burning. If I run out of 4756, I'll certainly consider that as a replacement.

[Harry O]

I moved from Unique for many of my handgun calibers to WW540 many years ago. 540 was equal to Unique (in accuracy) in almost all cases. However, 540 metered much better than Unique. A whole lot less weighing was needed. Then they discontinued 540.

Fortunately, they started making HS-6 right afterward. That was touted as being a direct replacement for 540 grain for grain. From my subsequent experience, they were right. I am using HS-6 now for many of my handgun loads. I have not found anyone saying that something is a direct replacement for SR4756, though. SR4756 beat Unique, WW540, and HS-6 from my handguns in 32-20.

PS. I have also been hitting every gunshow within 1-1/2 hours drive since running low. I have not seen anyone with a can of SR4756 (yet), but I am still looking. Gunshow this weekend and next weekend within an hour drive each.

[Oyeboten]

Not to be a wet blanket, but that could be an exercise in frustration. Since the powder is known to be discontinued with apparently no chance of it being revived, you will pay a premium price for a limited supply of it, then after establishing how well you like it you will find it more and more difficult to replace. Better (IMHO) to develop loads you like with currently available powders (and be frustrated later when THEY get discontinued!)

I used 4759 rifle powder for over 20 years and in a rare instance of good fortune had a large supply of it on hand when it was discontinued at the same time as 4756. I also got a few pounds from a friend who had quit shooting rifles, so I have well over 15 pounds of it. I would not have started from scratch to develop loads with a discontinued powder like this but at my age I now have a lifetime supply for the one gun/caliber that "demands" it.

Froggie

PS You might look at Accurate #7 and #9 on their powder charts to see whether either of those works well in the range you want for your 32-20. They are in the same general burn rate, IIRC.


Well, I had my fingers crossed that a local Gun Shop might have some SR4756 on hand, since they have a lot of old stock things, some of it going back even to the 1940s. They had SR4759 ( which I need to look up ) but, darn it, no SR4756.

It was worth a try anyway!

But, you are right...I should elect an easily available Powder which I can like, and which will be eay to find for the forseeable future, in case I like it a lot.

[9.3X62AL]

Harry--Herco seems to be a pretty close replacement for SR-4756 in the 32/20 revolver loads. It will be my choice when I run out of the existing stocks of 4756 I have on hand (about 3/4#). That is about 600-700 rounds'-worth, plus what I have loaded, so I'm probably good into mid-2017.

[Oyeboten]

Harry--Herco seems to be a pretty close replacement for SR-4756 in the 32/20 revolver loads. It will be my choice when I run out of the existing stocks of 4756 I have on hand (about 3/4#). That is about 600-700 rounds'-worth, plus what I have loaded, so I'm probably good into mid-2017.


Which 'Herco' Powder?

[9.3X62AL]

"Herco" is a medium-slow canister-grade shotshell propellant now marketed by Alliant TechSystems. It sees most use in field-grade shotshells of 12 to 28 gauge, but makes a great fuel for medium to medium-strong revolver reloading. Google shows it was first introduced in 1920. A mite slower than Unique, and faster than Blue Dot.

[Oyeboten]

"Herco" is a medium-slow canister-grade shotshell propellant now marketed by Alliant TechSystems. It sees most use in field-grade shotshells of 12 to 28 gauge, but makes a great fuel for medium to medium-strong revolver reloading. Google shows it was first introduced in 1920. A mite slower than Unique, and faster than Blue Dot.

Ahhh...

Okay...I thought 'HERCO' was a Manufacturer, rather than a specific product.

I may have had it mixed up with 'Hercules'...

[Bent Ramrod]

Harry--

All things come to him who goes to enough gun shows.

A few months back, I found a 1-lb jar of 4759 on a table at a show. It was late production, but I asked the owner if I could open the jar for the standard look-and-sniff test the committed powder scrounger routinely applies. When I saw that the jar was still Factory Sealed (for my protection) I figured that I need go no further.

The table holder asked me what that stuff was good for, anyway. I said a few eccentrics liked it for cast boolit loads but the manufacturer had discontinued it. The table holder said in that case, he'd take $15 for the jar instead of the $20 on the sticker. I said in that case, I guess I'd take it, what the heck; even if it was obsolete.

Heh-heh!

Of course in strict economic terms, with gasoline, time, food and entrance fees, this may not have been exactly a bargain, but I like to go to gun shows anyway, and, to paraphrase the Fabulous Furry Freak Bros, powder will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no powder.

Good hunting. There is a show here this weekend, for which I have the usual high hopes.

[Harry O]

> "Of course in strict economic terms, with gasoline, time, food and entrance fees, this may not have been exactly a bargain,"

I consider that as entertainment. Of course, a couple of times in the last 8 years, it has been more insulting than entertaining. I certainly hope that does not happen again. Like you there is one closeby this weekend.

[Green Frog]

I was at the very small Salem, VA show today and was surprised to see two of the dark purple cans (8 oz?) of 4759 priced at $30 each... Not a kernel of 4756 to be seen, though. As stated previously, I'd think hard about developing a new load with a discontinued powder, but if it were already a favorite load, I guess I'd squirrel away all I could find (and afford) to use as long as I could. At $60/lb, I was able to resist the temptation to buy that lot though. I really hate to see some of these old powders go, though. ��

Froggie

[9.3X62AL]

I read at an unrecalled site some months back when SR-4756's discontinuance was made public that "All 3 of its current users will be heart-broken". I wasn't happy about its loss, but it's not like a whole lot of components haven't been hard to locate for over a d--n decade.

[Bent Ramrod]

The discontinuance of some powders were the death of certain loads. There was once a powder called Hivel #1 and a cartridge called the .22-3000 Lovell was built around it. When it was discontinued, nothing worked quite as well, so the .22-3000 Lovell R-2 had to be developed to use the same shell and caliber for something at least as good as the original, using other available powders.

It wouldn't be so bad that they discontinue these powders as long as substitutes that are as good or better are introduced as replacements. For the actual reloaders, rather than the lawyers and bean counters, that is. Doesn't seem to happen very often, any more.

$60 for two 8-oz cans of 4759 is a little excessive, all right. Two one lb. jars might be within the range of reasonableness, though.

This week's gun show was a bust, powder-wise. However, I did find a Star bullet sizer-lubricator and a set of carbide .44 Spl. dies for fairly cheap. Didn't really need them, but I find the Gun Show Gods do not like it if it turn up my nose to their offerings. If I spurn them, the next half-dozen shows will have nothing of interest in my price range.

There's another one next week, though. Hope springs eternal!

[Green Frog]

Not to wander too far off topic BR, but what constitutes "fairly cheap" for a Star bullet sizer-luber in your neck of the woods? I don't recall ever seeing one at any price at a gun show here in Central VA. :???: However, a guy at our gun club says he's "getting to old" for casting and sizing his bullets and might sell his, so a few "comparables" would be useful. :coffeecom

Froggie

PS That Salem show had several dealers with a good variety of powder, but it was running about $30 per pound. The only one I actually looked for (other than 4756) and couldn't find was 2400... most of the other classic and often-used powders were there in pretty good amounts. The selection of primers was a little scant once again, and prices were up a little.

[Bent Ramrod]

GF,

The Star is missing the sizing lever handle, but did have the pressure handle and the die remover, and a 0.401 die installed. The lady said it was part of her husband's stuff, which she wanted to unload, and the asking price was $100. I figured if I cogitated on it until I came around again, it would likely be gone, so I grabbed it. I can make, or buy, the missing handle; I asked the lady but she hadn't seen it.

Star lubrisizers show up somewhat infrequently around here, typically priced around $250, with no Black Friday crowds in front of the tables fighting over them. New, I think they were around $330 last I checked. Kind of a neat machine, and very well made, but by no means the sine qua non the enthusiasts insist they are. And even the used asking prices are pretty stiff, unless you're in the boolit casting business.

I noticed the lady had a new pair of black Colt SAA grips for $75, and her loading dies were $20, so I think she had gotten some pretty good advice on the prices that would ensure that most of the stuff would be converted to cash in the two days of the show, without either giving it away or waiting forever for the "serious" buyer. The grips and most of the dies were gone by the time I left the next day.

My other Star was missing the pressure handle and the die remover, but it did have the sizing lever, and a 0.454" die installed. That one was $20, which may sound like a steal, but I "had" to purchase a $400 Cimmarron SAA in .45 Colt, and loading dies, in order to use it.

Gauging what is a bargain really is, as mentioned, sometimes a tricky proposition.

[Green Frog]

Thanks, Bent Ramrod. Back to the original topic, how about powder availability at gun shows there in the "Ole Southwest?" Can you get all of the current stuff OK? Do you ever run up on the discontinued stuff like 4756 or 4759? It seems like some folks here think a half can of a discontinued powder is like the Holy Grail or the Lost Ark while others are glad to get rid of it. I really can't justify spending money for "collectible" powder.

Froggie

[Bent Ramrod]

GF et. al., and sorry for the diversion, too; back (sort of) to topic:

New stocks of powder at the semipermanent "stores" that set up at the Gun Shows around here seem to be pretty complete. I generally only look for what I want myself, though, so I don't look for specifics on other offerings. There seems to be enough 2400, Bullseye and Unique, lots of Accurate and Hodgdon, and a sufficiency of IMR of all numbers. All seem to go new in the $28-$32/lb range (except for exotica like Vihtavouri), with primers edging back into the $32/1000 area.

There is lots and lots of 5744 available now. It used to be hard to find, but it's really moved into the 4759 vacuum. Doesn't work as well for me, though. There never seemed to be a designated replacement for 4756; as one of the "3 or 4 users" I would think I would have been notified. Ken Waters is retired; he would have hit the ceiling if he heard 4756 was going away. He reported in his Pet Loads that he had a pretty miserable time with his .32-20 revolver until he found a can of 4756, and then everything seemed to fall into place.

Haven't seen any 4756 remaindered by dealers in new powder in at least nine months; the last offering was an eight-pound container (which probably held four pounds) which I dithered over and passed on. I'll probably come to regret that. The last two one-pounders of 4759 on a new ammo and components dealers' table I saw was almost two years ago, when I was still living in California. They were almost $30 a jar, but they were one pounders, and the guy knew it had been discontinued. I coughed up; you gotta pay for peoples' expertise sometimes. At about the same time, a friend put me on to an On-Line components place that had a couple eight-pounders left, so I bought them, too. Since then, it's been lone containers or partials of one or the other, by people unloading their unwanted components on tables of miscellany.

It is by definition not a regular appearance, but I go to all the gun shows I can, and I would say a can of one or the other shows up every three months or so. This all priced at cheap enough to shoot; I don't buy powder to collect, either. The $30 new jars above were back when most powder was maybe $24-$28 a pound, so it wasn't all that out of line.

HarryO, how did your own search go?

[Harry O]

I just found the two+ pounds of 4756 at the auction and bought them. The "1 lb" cans cost me $20 each. I have not seen another can of it at any price in the last year or so (when I ran low and started looking for it again). I started hoarding my 4756 loaded 32-20's. I loaded some with Unique for everyday use. Unique was the best "other" powder I had found, but it was just not quite good enough. I was not happy with it. That's why I was more than happy to buy to old cans of 4756, even at $20 each.

In celebration of my find, I went to the range last Wednesday and shot off 48 rounds of my 32-20's loaded with 4756. It felt good.

[9.3X62AL]

I will miss SR-4756 when I use my last dregs of it. Years ago, it was a pretty popular shotgun fuel in 20 gauge and heavier 12 gauge loads, but with the onset of lighter and lighter shot loads among the trap cadre the powder lost favor and following. Once a powder in this burn range loses its fans in the shotgun sports, its tenure is doomed. Its closest existing analogs that I'm familiar with are Alliant Unique and Herco, and 4756's burn rate is between those two as best I can tell. Neither does as well in 32/20 revolver loads IME, but do well enough to get by. I'm usually not one for adventure-travel sequences like blending the two fuels 50/50 to see what happens, but the thought did occur to me.

[Bent Ramrod]

Didn't see any remaindered powders at the Mesa show this weekend either, although the floating "stores" seemed to have plenty of the current offerings, at $28 or slightly higher a pound. Primers were $32 for all types of Winchester, $35 for Remington Small Rifle Bench Rest (the only size of that type by Remington they seemed to stock).

More shows in October. Excelsior!

I once got s nearly full paper canister of Unique for cheep. When I got it home, the reason for the price (and the tricky look on the seller's face) became apparent. Somebody had mistakenly dumped a powder measure's worth of Bullseye into the canister. Another one of the consequences of having more than one powder at a time on the loading bench.

Fortunately, I still had my plastic screens that I used to separate DuPont Bulk Shotgun powder, so was able to separate the smaller flakes of Bullseye from the larger ones of Unique.

I was, of course, very cautious when I brought the loads up to speed, and did not mix the recovered Bullseye into another container of Bullseye. But it worked out OK. YMMV. The Bullseye did not seem to be very homogeneously blended into the Unique, though, so using the blend as-was would be a different kind of surprise party with every shot.