Marlin Guide Gun, RCBS 45-300GC and Re-7

[fremont]

I'm trying to find the "Marlin Max" for using Reloder-7 and the RCBS 300GC in my Guide Gun. I have Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, but it's not in there. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Much appreciated!

[Digital Dan]

Friend of mine used to load 510 gr paper patched over something in the ballpark of 30 gr RX7 for a 1895 CB. Was pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. Other than that I don't have a clue.

[Bird]

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

Weigh your bullet first. It can be as heavy as 325 grains depending on alloy.

[44MAG#1]

This is where using the old "gray matter" comes in.
Speer list in their #14 manual with their 300 gr UC FNHP bullet for the Marlin at 47 gr. Rl 7 for 28,000 CUP.
With the SAME bullet and for 35,000 CUP they list 54 gr as max.
Armed with that info and the knowledge that many consider 35,000 CUP completely safe in the Marlins with Hornady considering 40,000 CUP safe with them listing 52.3 gr RL 7"with their 300 gr and 49.8 of RL 7 with their 350 gr bullet how would you determine what you want to use?
Think on this and let us know. First determine your definition of what a "Marlin Max" load is.
I am sure you can work this out with thinking on it.
Have a good day and let us know what you have determined.

[fremont]

First determine your definition of what a "Marlin Max" load is.

Thanks for the info. "Marlin Max" was meant to mean reloading sources--like Lyman's cast bullet handbook--that specifically list Marlin loads in addition to Ruger #1, trapdoor, etc.

[GooseGestapo]

I've not used RL7 in .45/70 except 20 or so years ago with 300gr jacketed at max from Sierra manual.
I believe you'll find leading and recoil issues before pressure.
Jacketed data for max charges can be used, though cast bullet velocities will be higher, maybe 100fps.
I do use the RCBS 300gcfn. Mine cast to 322gr, and I size to .460". My Guide gun shoots them essentially as good as jacketed ( though I only shot enough to work up a load for an acquaintances Browning '78.
I use H4198, as I aquired a significant quantity 15yrs ago after a gunshop burglary/fire set off sprinklers and rusted the can tops. Powder was unaffected.
I went as high as Hornady's maximum with both Remington 300gr HP's and 325gr FTX. However, I have settled on 47.0 due to escalating recoil, and my cast are more accurate at 45.0gr. That is 1,900fps from my 18.5" GuideGun. NOT tossing nerf balls!!!
I suggest you will find 48.0gr of RL7 will be all you will want, recoil wise.

My favorite load with the RCBS 300 is 30.0gr of #2400. This delivers 1,650fps from the GuideGun and is 2" at 100yds. Enough and plenty for anything in lower 48. If I'm walking back in on an elk kill in Wyoming, I won't be afraid of Yogi!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I don't know how you guys are able to shoot one of these guns with heavy loads very much at all. My standard load uses this same boolit and 33 gr of 5744 for @1550 fps, and I can shoot 40 of them in one sitting, but that is all I can take recoil wise and maintain my form. I can see how bigger younger guys could take more but when that load will knock down anything in N/A why bother. Those steel rams will never know the difference, and neither will any game animal.

My main consideration with this load was to get an acceptable Trajectory for shooting out to 200 Meters for the game. But those numbers would also translate directly to hunting use if needed. With the gun sighted dead on at 150M it is 2" high at 100M and 6" low at 200M, and the recoil is tolerable enough that I don't flinch but once in a while, and can take 40-50 rounds in one sitting and not have any cuts or bruises. I can add that I worked this load up from 25 gr in 2 gr increments until I got a reasonably flat trajectory out to 200M (220yds.) 25 gr was a rainbow and unusable for the Short Range Silhouette Game.

My gun weighed 7lbs before I put the Graycoil Recoil Reducer in it and now it is 8 lbs 1oz. It is an 1895 CB with a 26" bbl. The gun really needs to weigh 9lbs to shoot heavier loads very much.

We had the discussion on a pistol thread about being able to "take the hit" (recoil) and still keep your fundamentals in, and the other side of that discussion is the fact that you have to be able to actually shoot the gun. If it beats the hell out of you then you aren't going to shoot it well, and that's a fact. Also in order to shoot it well you will have to practice with it and if you can only shoot 10 rounds in one sitting you aren't going to get very good at all. Dry firing will only help you get your fundamentals in, but excessive recoil will beat them back out of you in a hurry. So you need to concentrate on loads that you can actually handle,,, instead of "Loads that are 'ALL' you can handle."

These guns are formidable weapons and the 45-70 cartridge had killed everything on earth by 1900 with 405 gr boolits at 1300fps. Something to think about before you go for high end loads that you won't be able to shoot well.

I look at it this way: I would rather be able to hit a target everytime with a Mid Range Load, than get the **** beat out of me and not be able to hit anything consistently with a heavy one because I thought I needed a cannon to deal with a 200lb pig or 150 lb deer.

Just my .02 and I made 300 of those RCBS .45-300FNGC's last Monday and I'm going to shoot 40 of them this Saturday.

Randy.

[44MAG#1]

I shot for some time an NEI 550 gr GC in a Marlin GG and their standard 22 incher.
The load actually duplicated the Garrett 540 gr loads I had.
Recoil is kinda heavy.
But, there again handling recoil is mental.
Cannot stress that enough.
The load I used with a 3 power Leupold shot very well at 100 and 200 yards. But those guns are not a whizz bang bolt rifle in a lightweight caliber that has very little shooter on the gun.
The more shooter on the gun the more likely for a mess up.
I always made sure I was upright when shooting from the bench, not leaned over the rifle. And I used the method Elmer Keith said he used when shooting heavy recoiling rifles.
Heres the mental thing. It kicked a lot less than my Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag so to me it was light.
This is where 44man and his ideas come into play.
If you have a recoil problem with shooting heavy recoil go to something that will jar your long deceased grandma in her grave when it goes off and then what you though was heavy then becomes much lighter.
See mental.
A good method to use in rifles and handguns.
In rifles get yourself a 458 Lott and shoot it some. Then drop back and see how much lighter and comfortable is to shoot that jacked up Marlin.
In handguns get yourself an Encore with a 15 inch 45/70 with the factory untapered unbraked barrel and shoot some 550 cast at close to 1500 and then drop back to your 44 Mag and 454 Casull or even the 500 Smith and Wesson.
You will see what I mean.
A whole new revelation will come to you.

[Blackwater]

I'm kind'a with GG on this question. At something around 1900 fps., you're probably not going to want to take the recoil, and that's plenty fast enough to get good, easy 200 yd. shots once you find an accurate load. RL7 is a pretty classic powder choice for .45/70, and one of the better performers. I don't have records of my own use of it with 300 gr. Jacketed, because 4198 and H-322 was more accurate in my individual Guide Gun, but it was plenty accurate enough for deer, any day of the week, and I could almost always depend (at that time) on finding 4198 or H-322 when RL7 was harder to find. Thus, my choice of the two powders I wound up using.

I think the data GG gave you should prove eminently usable. And as to the killing power of the .45/70, like a friend of mine once commented on it, "you can load it with jacketed, cast, ash trays or feather pillows, and it'll STILL kill whatever ya' point it at!" There's a lot of truth in there. But even so, you STILL have to place those bullets right, which is why I've always gone with the most accurate loads I could work up rather than the fastest.

Once you've driven a bullet all the way through, any excess energy is just expended in the air or whatever it hits after completely penetrating your game. Even its lightest loads are basically .44 mag. equivalent, so I definitely won't be worrying about whether you're using "enough gun!" Your alloy choice and lube will determine how fast you can drive it with good accuracy. Most folks with .45/70's basically either sell them off if they insist on the top loads, or wind up toning them down a bit. I put a Decelerator pad on mine (1" thick) and with a scope on top, its recoil is pleasant enough to me that I can fire 40 or more rounds without flinching off the bench, but the advice about Elmer's old technique on the bench definitely helps with guns like this, even with a pad. If you're not familiar with that more upright bench technique, get familiar, and it'll likely be a bit of a revelation to you with any gun of significant recoil (i.e. anything from '06 on up). These are the things that matter that all too many discount, but really could benefit from if they'd just allow themselves to do so.

Good choice in guns, BTW. I've nicknamed mine "Snuffy," because that's what it does, and it does it very well. One day when I get a round tuit, I'm gonna' have that engraved on the barrel, and inlaid in gold leaf.

[fremont]

Just trying to get the Marlin ready for a friend to use on a doe hunt, and I think it's there. Now 2.5" high, 1" right at 100 yards (I'm moving the front sight with a brass punch & one click on the rear sight elevator moved POI by roughly 6", so close is good enough). Using a charge of Re-7 with direction from advice above. When I got this Figure 8 , I called it good. Thanks for the help.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/montyhouse/D7D9CBED-EA3B-4DB3-9FD2-B64881DFC398_zpsqkgrbgn2.jpg (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/montyhouse/media/D7D9CBED-EA3B-4DB3-9FD2-B64881DFC398_zpsqkgrbgn2.jpg.html)

[buckshotshoey]

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

Weigh your bullet first. It can be as heavy as 325 grains depending on alloy.

I have the RCBS 325gr FN mould. It is casting heavy also. 335 gr to 339 gr. Pretty sure my lead is too soft, ie, too pure.

[Bird]

Rcbs specifies linotype for their moulds. This will give their claimed weight or 5 to 6 grains less.
The powder and load I use gives me the best accuracy at or near full charge weight, for a velocity of around 2100 fps, and maybe more. I love the accuracy, but the recoil is brutal off the bench. I shot 75 of these loads, and also 75 near full loads of 200 grain 348 winchester in one day. It was for load testing, and I never want to, or will repeat that again.

[rintinglen]

On page 45 of the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1, it states:
"All bullets used in these data were cast of 1-10 alloy."

The notion that RCBS molds are designed for linotype is not correct, or was not at the tie of publication in 1986.;-)

[Lead Fred]

Ok girls, my standard load is a Ranchdog 430gr **** powered by 42gr Reloader-7.
Thats a 45 on the Taylor scale, and 3500psi @ 100 yards. According to Randy Garrett's calculations, about 5.5 feet of meat penetration @ the same 100 yards.

What you seem to forget when loading lighter boolits in a 45/70, is a 405gr @ 1400fps is all you need to kill anything that walks on the planet.

Im waitin for E.T. to show up......

[Bird]

On page 45 of the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1, it states:
"All bullets used in these data were cast of 1-10 alloy."

The notion that RCBS molds are designed for linotype is not correct, or was not at the tie of publication in 1986.;-)

1-10 alloy is for pistol bullets and linotype is for rifle bullets, that is indicated in the instructions that came with the mould I purchased last year.