What to do with an old Remington rolling block?

[modified5]

So a friend of mine brought me a Remington rolling block that he and his Dad found in his Grandmother's attic. It was his Grandfather's firearm. One thing to note is that he has no interest in firearms. They just aren't his thing.
Anyway, it is a carbine with an octagon barrel chambered in 30 rimfire. It has a steel but plate and a nice fore end with a steel cap. It really is a beautiful piece. The cch is all there. Needs a really good cleaning which I am going to do.
He got it 48 years ago and it hasn't been shot since. Probably well before that even.
I found ammo for it but it's from the 1870's range for $250 for 50 and who knows if it would even fire.
I think he is looking to get rid of it and if I had some extra money I would make an offer and maybe re-chamber it in a different 30 caliber round.
I know that would ruin the collector value on it but not to shoot it and just hang it on a wall would just be a shame.
Any ideas or thoughts?

[Traffer]

I would not re-chamber it. I reload 22lr, which is practically the same type of round as the 30 Rimfire. If it was my gun I would reload for it. My might have trouble finding cases for it but once you do, from my experience, it is easy to reload them.

[MUSTANG]

Try this thread on Cast Boolits for another possible option:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?147224-reloadable-32-rimfire-brass

[waarp8nt]

Might try to look for an old box of Navy Arms. Although out of production now, they were a more recent reproduction of the old rimfire ammo. My dad bought a couple boxes of .32 Rimfire short when they were in production, a local gun shop had a box here while back too.

[Drm50]

Depending on what frame size it is, you might go with 32/20, loaded with appropriate bullet dia.
I have had 25rf & 32rf sleeved with 22lr barrel liners. Firing pin and extractor has to be changed.
One 25rf that I have had since I was a kid, rebarreled with Rem 513 22rf. Still have it and it shoots like a target rifle. With the prices on these old single shots going through the roof, you
will have to decide to leave it original for value, or to make a shooter out of it. A 30 is scarce
compared to 25 & 32. 32/20 would require breech block work for CF cartridge.

[marlinman93]

Are you certain on the caliber? Never heard of Remington chambering a Rolling Block in .30RF? They did chamber them in .32 Long RF though. Did you check the marking on the bottom of the barrel, just in front of the forearm wood? Remington marked their caliber there, and it should indicate what it is.

[Mk42gunner]

It really depends on which model the rolling block is. The No. 1, 1½, 2 and 4 were all chambered for the various versions of the .32 RF, I think. I am not certain which were chambered for the .30 RF though.

Robert

[sharps4590]

If it's in as good condition as you describe the last thing I'd do is alter the rifle. They're called "originals" for a reason. As common as RB's are I'd be finding a beater to alter.

[modified5]

Good points from everyone. Thank you.
I had just taken really a passing glance at it when he dropped it off.
I tried to put a .30 bullet into the muzzle and it wouldn't go at all leading me to the .30 caliber assumption. After a closer look it is in fact a .32rf.
It truly is in as good a shape as I stated. It does have a 4 inch crack on the left side of the stock that needs repaired. It also needs a good cleaning.
It not only hasn't been shot in at least 50 years it also hasn't been cleaned.
I agree with leaving this fine piece original. It is too nice to modify. Don't know what I was thinking before. :-)
I will see what the owner wants to do with it. I sure do wish I had the money to buy it from him.
Thanks again.

[modified5]

I forgot to add, the latest patent Dat is Sept 9 1873.

[pietro]

.

You need to determine exactly which RB action you have, #1, #1-1/2, #2, or #4, and whether it's a takedown or not - as the #4 is a much smaller action that has no lower tang like the larger actions have, and takedowns are not strong enough for most modern chamberings.


I had a solid-frame #4 RB in .32RF which I easily converted to CF via altering the RF firing pin to CF, so I could shoot commercially available (Winchester) .32 Short Colt ammo.

Some pics might help.

.

[modified5]

Pietro thanks for that info. I am certainly not schooled in the remington rolling block action differences.
After seeing this one I can see why it is so easy to fall in love with them. :-)
I'm also just a sucker for old guns too. Nothing compares to the craftsmanship and pride the old builders had.
Except for the custom guys of course.
It does have a lower tang as part of the trigger guard and the stock screw goes through it a la 94 Winchester etc.
I don't think it's a take down but I will have to educate myself to see what the RB nuances are.
I quickly ran a brush with some remoil down the bore followed by patches. The bore is bright but rough. I can see some pitting. The rifling looks strong. Should shoot ok.
There is a lot of hardened oil and dirt on the outside with some pitting. :-(
The pitting is mostly on the pivot pins for the hammer and breach block.
The pins are connected together by a bridge with the retaing screw in the center.
Someone buggered that screw up a little at one point. Not bad, still fixable.
If I can figure out how to post pics I will take some in daylight and post them today.

[pietro]

.

This is a #1 RB action

http://www.rollingblockparts.com/uploads/7/8/7/5/7875298/9575947_orig.jpg


This is a #2 RB action - please not the differences in the shape/angle of the rear side of the action between a #1 & a #2.


http://www.rollingblockparts.com/uploads/7/8/7/5/7875298/3032447_orig.jpg


This is a takedown action (an early #4 - later #4's used a thumbscrew)

http://www.rollingblockparts.com/uploads/7/8/7/5/7875298/2136056_orig.jpg




You might want to check out this website: http://www.rollingblockparts.com/

.32RF ammunition is today very hard to come by, and very expensive when you do.

If you would like to shoot it, it's a fairly simple home project that most folks with mechanical ability can complete, to change the firing pin from RF to CF - so low-pressure commercial .32 Short Colt CF ammo can be used in it. (AFAIK, Winchester still makes 2-3 runs of the ammo each year)

The conversion process involves filing the face of the RF firing pin flat (removing the RF tip), then drilling a small hole through the center of the breechblock face into the flattened FP face, to mark it for the new CF tip.

The same thing can be done with a 2nd/extra RF firing pin, or just buy a #1 or #2 CF firing pin.

I marked the breechblock face for the CF hole with a Sharpie dropped downbore, and I ground the shank of the (sacrificial) drill bit used to drill the new CF hole in the breechblock (solder or epoxy the drill bit shank in place after grinding to length).


.

[corbinace]

:goodpost:

[modified5]

Awesome info! Thanks a ton!
A #1 it is.
Now I'm thinking could I get a cf breach block and swap it out so as to not permanently modify the original breach block. ?
Man do I want this gun!! :-)

[marlinman93]

The #1 and #1 1/2 are nearly identical! The difference is the thickness of the actions, and the #1 1/2 is thinner. The #1 above is a military action, as it does not have the longer lower tang of the Sporting #1 Models.
Is the Roller you're looking at an octagon top receiver, or round top? Is there a "step" on the side of the receiver, or flat sided with no step? If octagon top, but flat sided with no step, it's probably a #1 1/2. Not a #1 that has the step in the side.

Left to right. #1, #1 1/2, #2, #3 Hepburn, #4.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/rem2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/rem2.jpg.html)

Same top to bottom:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/rem1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/rem1.jpg.html)

[Earlwb]

Several companies such as Dixie Gun Works sells special .32 Rimfire conversion cases that let you use a .22 RF blank and a round ball or conical bullet over a dribble of black gunpowder. The conversion cases work quite well and are fairly easy to reload too.

[R.Newman]

I remember seeing an article or was it a you tube video? anyway the guy filled in the primer pocket and made a new one off Center so the Rimfire fireing pin would hit it. Just had to make sure the cartridge was in the right orientation when loading.May have been in Guns of the Old West magazine.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[modified5]

So, it has an octagon top, no step. Looks like it's a 1 1/2.
And it's serial number is 850.
If what is stamped on the barrel and lower tang is its serial number.

[Tom Herman]

.

.32RF ammunition is today very hard to come by, and very expensive when you do.


I guess I'll consider myself lucky that I bought that nearly complete box of Remington Kleenbore .32RF for $15!

[marlinman93]

So, it has an octagon top, no step. Looks like it's a 1 1/2.
And it's serial number is 850.
If what is stamped on the barrel and lower tang is its serial number.

Yes, it does sound like a #1 1/2. The lower tang and barrel are the serial numbers. As old Rolling Blocks go, the #1 1/2 is not as high in value as the #1 or #2, especially in .32 RF or .38 RF, so it may be more affordable than you thought. Unless the condition is excellent, they rarely go over $1,000 in these calibers. I've seen them down as low as $500-$600. Not hard to convert to CF, as the breech blocks can be swapped out, or simply bushed and a CF firing pin built. If it has a good bore you could simply have the chamber reamed to .32 S&W Long after converting the firing pin to CF.

[charliek]

I have the same question: A Danish rolling block put away 30 or 40 years ago. It is in good shape but I have no idea of the caliber. Is there a market for the action? I'm not familiar with the single shot world.

[marlinman93]

I have the same question: A Danish rolling block put away 30 or 40 years ago. It is in good shape but I have no idea of the caliber. Is there a market for the action? I'm not familiar with the single shot world.

Absolutely! And the Danish actions are of very good quality. They are black powder actions, but as good as Remington BP actions. I don't see the actions getting huge money, but the complete guns are still used by many shooters in stock military form. Actions sell for $200-$300 depending on how complete, and condition. Complete guns seem to still be in the $400-$450 range if decent and original.
I just purchased a complete military Rolling Block in .43 Spanish for my son in law's start in old single shot rifles. It was marked $275, and I didn't argue with the seller. Looking at a couple complete actions in a week, and seller told me he wants $150 and $200, but no idea of which maker they are?

[modified5]

I ended up taking it completely apart to give it a good scrubbing. It has turned to a mostly brown patina with some cch peeking through.
It has what I suspect is a combination of hardened oil and dirt and who knows what else speckled all over it. When I clean that off it has somehow preserved some of the original finish but not much.
I found the .32 rf adapters on gun broker for $43 for 6 delivered so at least she can speak again.
I am going to see him at church tomorrow and am going to ask him what his plans are for it.
It looks like on GB that they seem to be going for anywhere from $500-1000.
We will see.

[charliek]

Thanks to you both, I'll get some photographs and try and list it on Gun Broker. I'd like to be able to put the proceeds to an Uberti Rolling Block.

[marlinman93]

I wouldn't expect a RF version to go in the high end of your estimate. There's a pretty good deduct for .32RF and .38RF in the #1 1/2, just because of the lack of ammo. I bought those RF adapters from Dixie years ago for a .32RF, and tossed them soon after. Using the .22RF blanks proved to be a PITA. Once fired, the blanks open up in the adapter case, and aren't easy to get out. I spent more time fiddling with them than I did firing them.
If it was mine, I'd bush the breech block, or swap it to a CF breech block. A common #1 block will fit the #1 1/2.

[modified5]

marliman, thanks for the info. Will the rf hammer still work for the cf block or does that need to be changed also?

[marlinman93]

marliman, thanks for the info. Will the rf hammer still work for the cf block or does that need to be changed also?

The hammer is the same. Just a different angle on the firing pin to strike center of the primer. I see serviceable CF blocks going for under $50, but most have military spurs that aren't checkered. Converting the original is the way to go. Face can be bushed, and a new hole and firing pin used to make it CF.

[Argentino]

I wouldn´t convert a well preserved rifle by modifying its original parts, but that´s just me.

For me, the real challenge lays in finding a way to duplicate the original ammo it was intended for, rather than spending that same amount of time (or even more?) in converting the gun into something that won´t be original anymore.

Converting CF cases to RF does n´t seem to be too difficult to deal with. I´d give it a try first.

Just my 2 cts.

Argie

[modified5]

Well, it sounds like he is going to take it back and stick it back in the closet. :-(
I will have to save my nickels and at some time try to make an offer on it.
Patience is a virue.......right?? :-)

[Scorpion8]

Reload for it and shoot it! Here's mine, .43 Spanish. I have a box of cases and am looking for some .43 bullets to load for it.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/DSCN0492_zpsx1c6ocny.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Scorpion008/media/DSCN0492_zpsx1c6ocny.jpg.html)

[Hogpost]

Scorpion, there are two guys on Gunbroker.com making excellent .439 bullets specifically for the 43 Spanish; just search for "43 Spanish Bullets." And Buffalo Arms sells two excellent bullets for the .43. BUT...slug your bore. The great majority, whether made by Remington or Oviedo, have oversize bores, up to .450. AND, one major reason the Spanish changed to the Reformado cartridge was the ridiculously long leade of the original 43 load. The bullet had to make such a long jump before engaging the rifling that most of the time it was shoved down the bore cocked.

My Oviedo rolling block measures about .448. RCBS Mold 44-370 mold casts 447/448, and the design is such that the provided crimp groove sticks the bullet 'way further out, almost exactly like the Reformado round. I got some from Buffalo Arms sized to .446, about 385 grains, with SPG lube. 20:1 lead, so it slugs up. Dang, what an improvement in my rifle!
So, there's two sources for bullets, and some variety. Enjoy your roller: I just enjoy the bejabbers out of mine!

[Traffer]

I wish I knew a way to produce cases for these guns. Rimfire is easier to load than many folks realize. I wonder if a good die maker could come up with a die system to make the cases. Looks like my next research project. It would be wonderful to provide rim fire cartridges to folks with these old classics.

[marlinman93]

Scorpion, if you cast Lee makes a pretty nice mold for that caliber. Depending on your bore size, it might need sizing, or it could work just fine as is. It's a hollow base design and I've used it in .43 Mauser, Spanish, and .444-77SBN. A 290 grain bullet design, and very inexpensive. Not sure if they are still offered, but often show up on Ebay around $20-$25 new. #445-290

[Black Beard]

Rifles in 11.7 Danish go for quite a lot more in the UK. They count as non-firing antiques so are unlicensed. Might be worth looking at export costs and international postage.

[pressonregardless]

Quite a few Swedish Rolling Blocks here - https://www.tradeexcanada.com/produits/66

[modified5]

So I was putting it back together and saw that the receiver is stamped 845 while the barrel is stamped 850. ??
I would think that everything got stamped for the serial number at the same time when it was built.
I know that it hasn't been shot for at least 50 years, so why the discrepancy?
Is this common?
I am going to ask that if he decides to sell it to give me first refusal.
I'm thinking I REALLY "need" one in 45-70 too!!:-)

[marlinman93]

So I was putting it back together and saw that the receiver is stamped 845 while the barrel is stamped 850. ??
I would think that everything got stamped for the serial number at the same time when it was built.
I know that it hasn't been shot for at least 50 years, so why the discrepancy?
Is this common?
I am going to ask that if he decides to sell it to give me first refusal.
I'm thinking I REALLY "need" one in 45-70 too!!:-)

Military rifles often get worked on at various arsenals, and often parts get swapped. But there are serial numbers and assembly numbers, so one of those could be the serial number, and the other an assembly number. Would be strange for them to be so close, but not impossible.

[modified5]

I went to hand him the rifle back and he told me again that he had no real interest in it and told me to keep it and pay him what I could, when I could. :-)
I am looking forward to trying the various ways to make this old girl speak again.
I like the idea about drilling out through center of a cf case and using the 27 cal nail gun blanks.
That's pretty interesting.
It will be a lot of fun to play with, and my 9 y.o. is already dreaming about shooting it. He is gaining a love and appreciation of the older firearms like I have.
Thanks for all the info you guys have given me.
I'm really glad I found this site.

[modified5]

Well, I got this old girl speaking again. :-)
I made a case out of some aluminum round stock that I had laying around, drilled and made a recess for a 22 blank, and used some reject 170 rf cast bullets for projectiles.
I put the nose in the lathe and cut them off through the first lube groove to make a wad cutter round. I packed it full of fff black powder and shot it.
It hit poa at about 15 yards. Was really just looking for proof of concept more than anything.
I reloaded it and let my 9 y.o. shoot it. The first thing he said was, "I love the smell of black powder!"
Yes, he is a next generation addict. :-)
The case has survived 2 shootings and 3 reloadings thus far. Partially I think because I made the case a tight fit in the chamber. No real expansion going on.
When I get back from this week's elk hunt for my fil I will try to figure out how to post some pics.

[19Wyoming]

I would love to see some pics. Congrats on a nice Rolling Block.

[modified5]

Alright, let's see if I can get a couple of photos to post.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o523/wolfpackbravo/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_071148_zpsqdin7ohc.jpg.htmlhttp%3A/s1146.photobucket.com/user/wolfpackbravo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_122456_zpsmgrauqqj.jpg (http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/wolfpackbravo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_071148_zpsqdin7ohc.jpg.htmlhttp%3A/s1146.photobucket.com/user/wolfpackbravo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161022_122456_zpsmgrauqqj.jpg.html)
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/wolfpackbravo/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>
Why is this not working???

[modified5]

180069180070
Let's see if these worked. :-)

[Chill Wills]

NICE !

You have a lot of good options here and some not mentioned yet.

The main thing in my opinion is you are rescuing this old Roller and teaching your son to appreciate old forearms and black powder! Your a good man.

[leadman]

There is a guy in Texas that reloads all kinds of old cartridges, name is Hayley. He might have the cartridges already made that use the offset 22 rimfire blank. He advertises in either Handloader or Rifle magazines. He had lots of old original molds from way back. Saw pictures of inside his place in a magazine.
If the aluminum holds up that is good, or you might have to switch to brass.