Got me a Rossi 461

[FergusonTO35]

Went over to Centerfire yesterday and they had a like new Rossi 461 .357 with box and papers for only $230.00. I've been wanting a compact six shot .38 or .357 for quite awhile now (Ruger why won't you make one??!!) so it came home with me. This revolver has a 3" tube and is about the size of an SP-101 or Detective Special.

I put a few rounds of 3.2 grains 700X/158 grain LSWC through it when I got home and I could shoot it just as well as my S&W 637 from the get go. The trigger pull is really good. Unfortunately the oddly shaped factory grips are going to have to go, they are made for someone with much smaller hands and give the revolver a muzzle heavy feel. Already ordered some Pachmayrs for it. Anybody know of a good paddle holster for this gun?

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[rintinglen]

You may have issues finding a holster that actually fits.
The Rossi 6 shot frame is about like a k-frame, but with an underlug barrel. S&W didn't make very many like that and even fewer 3 inchers. You may find a holster for an SP-101 that fits, but maybe not. I made my own for several of my firearms, it's not hard, merely tedious if sewing by hand.176295176296176297176298
That last one, on the Taurus Tracker, is about the size that you want.

[FergusonTO35]

Tried it in my K frame holsters. They could be used but are a loose fit, whereas the J frame holsters are really tight. A local shop has a pretty good selection, I'll go over there and see if any will work.

[victorfox]

I don't know if this is a newer one or kind of a version, my father has the same gun, but 38 only, from the end of the '90s and the grips are those massive wood slabs... It's a really though gun.

[FergusonTO35]

This one is almost brand new, made by Braztech. My understanding is that this revolver can use the same grips as the Taurus 617, other posts I have read suggest that Galco holsters for the SP-101 are a perfect fit. I think a compact .38 or .357 with 6 rounds and a 2-3" barrel is about the perfect carry revolver as long as you don't need something really small. I think Ruger could have had a runaway success if they had given the SP-101 six rounds instead of five, it would have barely added any size or weight as the SP is already pretty big for a five shooter.

[FergusonTO35]

Got the Pachmayrs today, they are an immediate improvement in looks and comfort. I think they give the gun a classy Colt DSIV or Ruger Speed Six look.

176777

[FergusonTO35]

Shot the Rossi more today after work with the same load, 3.2 grains 700X/150 grain LSWC. Resting my elbows on an overturned bucket, this revolver makes nice tight groups that are dead on as far as windage goes. They are on average 2" high at 10 yards though. I'm thinking that the sights were intended for 125 grain slugs which are commonly used in .357 Magnum as well as defensive .38 Special ammo. With my S&W 10-5 the opposite is true: dead on with 150-160 grain slugs, 2" low with the 125's. I poured a bunch of Lee 358-125-RF to try in it. I hope it likes these because I already use bunches in my Marlin 1894C and 9mm's.

[FergusonTO35]

Tried out the Lee 358-125-RF slugs yesterday and they were right on the money, at least at 20 feet. They seemed to group tighter too, although this is probably more just me getting used to the gun. I went ahead and poured a bunch of them for it, hopefully I can add the Rossi to my carry rotation by the time cooler weather arrives. If all the current Rossi revolvers are as nice as this one then they are a diamond in the rough indeed!

[Lefty Red]

I think I read some where that the newer revolvers are sighted in for a 125ish grain bullet. I know about every newer S&W snub I shoot is dead on with that bullet range and about 4-6" high with the 158ish grains bullets.

Glad the Rossi is working out for you. Was looking and found an older Taurus 8 shot with a 2ish" barrel for sale! LOL never knew that made something like that. Would make a good bed side pistol.

Jerry

[runfiverun]

there are no 'current rossi's' except in name only.
there are current taurossi's and probably not for much longer.
Taurus can't keep themselves out of trouble.

[FergusonTO35]

That is unfortunate as the 461 is a darn good sixgun. Mebbe I better buy another one.....

[FergusonTO35]

Still shooting and enjoying the 461 with the Lee 358-125-RF sized to .358 with Tac-X lube. The revolver is very accurate with this boolit, shoots almost perfectly to the sights. I'm looking for an accurate load with a consistent 850-900 fps. This can be difficult with lighter boolits due to all the extra room in the case. My usual charges for 158 grain slugs actually chronograph less velocity with the 130 grain boolits from my mold. Going to try 3.9 grains Bullseye this weekend, hopefully that will get me there.

[Lefty Red]

You have me itching for one!

[FergusonTO35]

It's a good gun to itch for. 3.9 grains Bullseye only produced 749 fps over the chrono, albeit with excellent accuracy.

[shoot-n-lead]

The most accurate load that I have for my old model Ruger .357 is that bullet over 4.5grs of 231/HP38...1000fps and lights out accurate.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks for the tip. Was that in .38 or .357 brass? How long is your barrel?

[shoot-n-lead]

Thanks for the tip. Was that in .38 or .357 brass? How long is your barrel?

It shoots great in either...naturally, fps is less in the mag case...but it would still be in your desired range.

I have probably shot more of it in .357...but that is only to prevent the carbon ring of shorter brass.

Give it a try in the special case...I think you will be satisfied with the results.

That load is out of the Lee reloading manual. If you would like, I will take a pic of the page and text it to you. Just let me know.

[shoot-n-lead]

I sent it to you in a pm.

[FergusonTO35]

I got it, thanks. Will try HP-38 next. 4.5 Bullseye produced 835.5 fps with an ES of 50. According to the data this is already in +P territory so maybe a slower powder will produce better results.

[Lefty Red]

I got to hold and mess with a new Taurus 85 today. It was a cheap flat black finish, but it was all metal and felt really good. Gun shop owner said he just started carrying Taurus again because they had actually started to make better stuff. He is pretty picky about what he brings in to sell.

Saw a CA Pit Bull in 9mm as well. Wa not impressed. 5 shot and was thicker than my Sp101. Reports of the 9mm cases slipping under the extractor and a pain to empty the cyclinder.

[FergusonTO35]

All the shops here sell tons of 85's and report few problems with them. I think the .38 and .357 revolvers are Taurus' best products. They've been making them forever and those guns see alot of police and military use south of the border.

A five shot 9mm thats the same size as a .44? Yeah, I wouldn't be too impressed either. Now, the Police Undercover is a six shot .38 built on the same frame and it is a sweet shooter. I had one and sold it like a dummy.

Shot some 146 grain SWC over 3.4 grains Bullseye today out of the 461. To my surprise they were pretty close to point of aim. I was using a small log as a target so I don't know how close they actually are. I'do.load some more and set up a real target soon and see how they do. If the 461 likes these boolits that will be good as the 125's need alot of powder to get up to respectable velocity out of the .38 Special.

[shoot-n-lead]

I have had such miserable service from Taurus revolvers until I would never buy another. I hope that yours is better. I don't think they will hold up long, if you start putting a 1000rds a year through them. Matter of fact, I have never had one make it to 1000rds, the most rounds that I have put through one was about 500...light loads...and the problems, started. At any rate, enjoy it, while it lasts...hopefully, a long time.

[Lefty Red]

Last Taurus I personally owned was way back when they were still made on actual S&W machinery in Brazil. Two 85s, and a 82. Great weapons and never knew why they moved away from the simple line they had.

Don't know why it's so hard to find a 6 shot short barrel wheelgun, that is able to be carried. At least under $650!

Lefty

[FergusonTO35]

Shoot-n-lead, I too am apprehensive about Taurus. Still, I can't argue with how popular their .38's and .357's are around here. My local dealer is as honest as the day is long and stands behind every gun he sells 100%, even if the factory won't. He sells bunches of them and says that he gets very few complaints.

Lefty Red, I have no idea why compact six shot wheelguns just aren't that popular, although big five shot guns are. The Ruger SP-101 is about the same size and weight as a Detective Special and has a rabid fanbase. Same for the S&W 60. I bought a used Fobus paddle holster for the SP-101 to try on the Rossi. In stock form it works well enough, I modified the area around the trigger guard and above the retention screw with a soldering iron last night and now it fits quite well. Soon as I get the ammo straightened out I'll add it to the carry rotation.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm going to order some Remington HTP .38 Special +P 125 grain SJHP for the 461. I used to shoot it in my 3" SP-101 back in the day and it penetrates and expands quite well, comparable to the pricey stuff that everyone insists you should carry. At $20.00 a box it's only a few bucks more than basic lead round nose.

[Lefty Red]

Found an old model Rossi M33 today at a pawn shop, while the son was getting his braces on. Was tempted to ask what they would take OTD for it, was priced $249.

[magimerlin]

With any of the older style Rossi revolvers that have the firing pun on the hammer..... be very careful with them.... they are NOT availible any longer... had a
.38 special Rossi revolver.... one day it just went click and no bang.... broke the firing pin... there was 1 person I found on the Internet that had a pin.. I bought the pin then sold the gun... oh and finding, by luck, that 1 pin took almost 6 months of searching... so fair warning if any of y'alls is this style..

sent from what use to be a great country...

[shoot-n-lead]

With any of the older style Rossi revolvers that have the firing pun on the hammer..... be very careful with them.... they are NOT availible any longer... had a
.38 special Rossi revolver.... one day it just went click and no bang.... broke the firing pin... there was 1 person I found on the Internet that had a pin.. I bought the pin then sold the gun... oh and finding, by luck, that 1 pin took almost 6 months of searching... so fair warning if any of y'alls is this style..

sent from what use to be a great country...

Good advice...they are unobtanium.

[FergusonTO35]

The current ones still have the pin on the hammer, I think it interchanges with S&W. Speaking of compact six shooters, my local guy has a newer Colt Cobra for $350.00. Looks like it hasn't been fired much although there is a fair amount of bluing loss on the cylinder. I can give you the dealer's contact info if anyone is interested.

[Lefty Red]

With any of the older style Rossi revolvers that have the firing pun on the hammer..... be very careful with them.... they are NOT availible any longer... had a
.38 special Rossi revolver.... one day it just went click and no bang.... broke the firing pin... there was 1 person I found on the Internet that had a pin.. I bought the pin then sold the gun... oh and finding, by luck, that 1 pin took almost 6 months of searching... so fair warning if any of y'alls is this style..

sent from what use to be a great country...

Handled three new Rossis yesterday in between doctor visits yesterday and all had the old SW type firing pin on the hammer.

i understand everyone's opinion of Rossi and Taurus snubnose revolvers. In the past, they have not been of good quaility. But it seems that every major brand of firearms has had issues. I just traded off a Colt Defender after it had two trips back Colt for the takedown pin falling out. Last email I got from Colt said quit shooting +P 9mm in it! The loss I took still keeps me up at night! I have a Taurus TCP 738 that has over 1000 rounds in it this year and never missed a beat with factory ammo, even steel cases TulAmmo! And I have spent twice the pistol's worth on ammo for it! Yet, I could have bought two TCPs for the difference in the loss I took on that Colt!

Nor or do I think that Ferg or I are so inept in firearm knowledge that we are led astray. I think I can pick out a good or bad firearm. I know when I feel it if it's made right. I don't go by brand names alone. But I am always leery, just my nature. I have spoke to three gun shop owners this week about the new Taurus revolvers and that fact that they are even in their shops says something.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming........

[Lefty Red]

The current ones still have the pin on the hammer, I think it interchanges with S&W. Speaking of compact six shooters, my local guy has a newer Colt Cobra for $350.00. Looks like it hasn't been fired much although there is a fair amount of bluing loss on the cylinder. I can give you the dealer's contact info if anyone is interested.

yes, please PM the info! I'm still licking my wounds from the Defender, but if I can't swing it my buddy would want it.

Thanks!

[FergusonTO35]

PM sent, good luck. The gun looks very nice other than the bluing loss on the cylinder. The owner said he thinks it slid around in a drawer to cause it.

[FergusonTO35]

Finally got the chamce to do some more shooting with the 461 today. I discovered the revolver really likes my 146 grain SWC slugs with Bullseye powder.These bullets are from a Lee C358-158-SWC that I had modified by Buckshot. He milled off the top of the mold where the gas check shank is, now it drops plain base 146 grain slugs. I tried 3.4 and 3.8 grains Bullseye and got excellent accuracy just slight above POA at 20 feet. The 3.8's didn't produce much more recoil than the 3.4's and accuracy was the same. The Pachmayr Compac grips really help keep the revolver under control, Rossi should make them standard. I'll roll up some more of the 3.8's and chrono 'em.


So far I really like this revolver and I'm very glad I bought it.

[warboar_21]

I think my friend has the same model or had the same model. It was a short little 357 Mag made by Rossi. When he first got it the trigger was a bit gritty and heavy but once he broke it in it seemed to improve. He carried it in his car/truck for when he went into Indy.

I have a late 80's Taurus model 66 that has 10,000+ rounds through it. Most of which are factory Winchester White Box 110gr JHP. I bought it used from a buddy that shot the heck out of it and then fell on hard times and sold it to me. I proceeded to shoot the heck out of it for many many years. It wasn't until I got out of the Army that it saw any of my reduced power reloads. That gun has given me zero problems since I have owned it.

Now the newer ones I wouldn't be as confident about.

[FergusonTO35]

I've long observed that .38 and .357 revolvers are Taurus' best priducts. They see alot of military and police use south o' the border and my local guy sells bunches of them with very few complaints.

[rugerdude]

With any of the older style Rossi revolvers that have the firing pun on the hammer..... be very careful with them.... they are NOT availible any longer... had a
.38 special Rossi revolver.... one day it just went click and no bang.... broke the firing pin... there was 1 person I found on the Internet that had a pin.. I bought the pin then sold the gun... oh and finding, by luck, that 1 pin took almost 6 months of searching... so fair warning if any of y'alls is this style..

sent from what use to be a great country...

Broke the hammer mounted firing pin on my Taurus 84 some time back. Numrich had them in stock in volume. Took 30 minutes to install including fitting. If those hadn't been in stock a S&W pin could easily be modified to work. And if all else failed an hour or so with a thin piece of O2 tool steel, a grinder and a file and voila, new firing pin!

[FergusonTO35]

Very few makers actually list a holster for the 461. I found a new Triple K leather thumbsnap holster for the Ruger SP-101 with 3" barrel on Fleabay for $20.00 so I decided to try it, seeing how close in size these guns are. I'm happy to report that this holster seems to fit well. It is as stiff as a board and the thumbsnap could stand to be about 1/8" longer but I think it will break in just fine. I soaked it in silicone spray and shoved the revolver in there as hard as I could a few times, I could feel the leather stretching as I did so. I'll store the gun and holster together for awhile to let them get used to each other.

[Lefty Red]

Very few makers actually list a holster for the 461. I found a new Triple K leather thumbsnap holster for the Ruger SP-101 with 3" barrel on Fleabay for $20.00 so I decided to try it, seeing how close in size these guns are. I'm happy to report that this holster seems to fit well. It is as stiff as a board and the thumbsnap could stand to be about 1/8" longer but I think it will break in just fine. I soaked it in silicone spray and shoved the revolver in there as hard as I could a few times, I could feel the leather stretching as I did so. I'll store the gun and holster together for awhile to let them get used to each other.


My friend had a Taurus 856 and it fits in my Remora holster for my SP101.

[Lefty Red]

I've long observed that .38 and .357 revolvers are Taurus' best priducts. They see alot of military and police use south o' the border and my local guy sells bunches of them with very few complaints.

I've said it before, but I know of three very reputable shop owners that are now carrying Taurus revolvers. And they stand by their products. So if they say they are good, then they are.

[FergusonTO35]

My local guy carries the Taurus snub .38 revolvers and the Millenium Pro (or whatever the current version is called) autos. He doesn't carry any of their other products. I suspect there just isn't any demand for them.

[Lefty Red]

These shops are also carrying the Taurus "slim" pistol? Model 709, I think?
It gets very good reviews. But can't never get one because ever time I go and think about it, someone trades in a Ruger LC9 for a 9s version and it priced cheaper. :
And the fact you can get magazines for the Ruger easier than the Taurus. Although I have seen some in stock at these store now. Not the case a month ago.

[FergusonTO35]

Nope, none of the "Slim" pistols are in stock around here. It could just be regional thing.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Recently I bought two Tauri, used but recent manufacture---a model 85 snubby and a 709 slim 9mm. They are inexpensive new, but were very inexpensive slightly used. The 9mm is ugly, ugly, ugly, but it is a handy size and has worked perfectly so far. The adjustable rear sight works so well I wish I had it on every gun. The new parkerized finish on the 85 is ugly compared with their old blueing, but the gun works perfectly. The new shape to the 85 stocks is actually very nice.

[FergusonTO35]

Thought I would update on the 461. I've settled on feeding it 4.3 grains HP-38 and a CCI primer under a Lee 358-150SWC. Gets 795 fps across the chrono and is plenty accurate and easy to shoot. I've been carrying it in a cartridge belt holster while deer humting and I can say the 461 is a very easy carrying wheelgun, even compared to my K-frames. Very happy with this revolver, well worth the low price and then some.

[Lefty Red]

Recently I bought two Tauri, used but recent manufacture---a model 85 snubby and a 709 slim 9mm. They are inexpensive new, but were very inexpensive slightly used. The 9mm is ugly, ugly, ugly, but it is a handy size and has worked perfectly so far. The adjustable rear sight works so well I wish I had it on every gun. The new parkerized finish on the 85 is ugly compared with their old blueing, but the gun works perfectly. The new shape to the 85 stocks is actually very nice.

I finally got a Slim 740, stainkess steel upper. It's a shot little and carry a lot pistol! But I put some Talon Grips on it and put about 300 rounds through it in 5/6 range trips. I put it on par with the Shield, accuracy wise. Very happy with it. Federal 180gr HSTs was flawless, it's what I carry in my 40SWs.

I thought the same about the new 85s.

Still awaiting for a stainless steel upper 709 to pop up.

Lefty

[Texas by God]

My wife carried a Taurus 85 Ultralight for years with no trouble. I would shoot 200 rounds per session every time we took it out. Other than printing a tad to the left it never failed- even when I tried to copy Jerry M speed shooting. She changed to a 9mm Shield and we let the Taurus go when I got a .40 Shield. Great guns and I'm sure the Rossi is as well. I also lament the lack of affordable 4" K frame size revolvers as there is definitely a market for them. Hind sight is 20/20 - I should have bought a bunch of police trade in 4" M&Ps in the 90s when they were $150! Best, Thomas.

[Petrol & Powder]

We've all heard the stories about Taurus guns and since they now own Rossi, I'll include them here.
My experience with Taurus can be summed up with the statement: Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a bad one.
I will say that of all of the Taurus models I've encountered over the years, the one they consistently seems to get right is the Model 85.
The Rossi/Taurus 461 seems to be a mix of a couple of designs. It has the elongated trigger guard similar to a S&W J-frame and a six round cylinder similar to a S&W K-frame. It looks like they wanted to make a 6 round copy of a Colt Detective Special with S&W DNA and a coil type main spring. Nothing wrong with that thinking.

As for holsters, You might be able to find something close but you're probably going to be better off making your own or getting someone to make one.

If you end up using a holster for another gun, I would suggest going with a holster designed for a five shot revolver. I think you will be better off stretching the holster to fit that 6 round cylinder than trying to compensate some other dimension. The Rossi will probably be shorter from top strap to the bottom of the trigger guard than the same distance on a S&W K-frame. The full lug barrel may be a problem but it would be easier to open up that part of a holster than the main portion that covers the frame/cylinder.

[FergusonTO35]

Taurus has made .38 and .357 wheelguns for decades and I think they are definitely above the rest of the line.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've had good Taurus' and bad Taurus' and I've seen others with similar experiences. I'm no longer willing to play in that sandbox. I will say that Taurus knows how to build a good gun, they just don't pull it off with the consistency I desire.

[FergusonTO35]

Petrol and powder, leather holsters for the SP-101 are nearly a perfect fit. Stretch 'em out a little and they are perfect. What is amazing is that the 461 is smaller in every dimension than my .38 Special K-frames. Even the cylinder is shorter although the 461 is a .357. I still say Ruger might have the perfect carry revolver if they added a sixth round to the SP-101. It wouldn't be hard to do as the SP is already a big 5 shot.

[Petrol & Powder]

Petrol and powder, leather holsters for the SP-101 are nearly a perfect fit. Stretch 'em out a little and they are perfect. What is amazing is that the 461 is smaller in every dimension than my .38 Special K-frames. Even the cylinder is shorter although the 461 is a .357. I still say Ruger might have the perfect carry revolver if they added a sixth round to the SP-101. It wouldn't be hard to do as the SP is already a big 5 shot.
Yea, I thought a SP101 holster would be close. The SP101 has a big lug on the barrel and it's overall a tad larger than a J-frame. A SP101 holster will be Pretty close to that Rossi 461 if you stretch it around the larger cylinder.

The SP101 is a fine gun but I carry a lightweight, DAO J-frame because that SP101 is just a bit too big/heavy for pocket carry in my book. Now, if you're willing to step up to using a holster ; your options increase considerably. There's the Rossi you have and in that same class there's the SP101, Taurus 85 and the 2" K-frames. The Colt Detective Special is right on the edge of pocket carry for me.

As for that 6th round; I'm not convinced it's worth the penalty in weight and width but that's a personal thing. I think the old Detective Special is easier to shoot because it's just a little more gun to hold onto. That extra round is just icing on the cake, IMO.
It all depends on what's right for you.

[FergusonTO35]

I say, if I'm going to carry on the belt then why not have a sixth round and a little more barrel? If I'm going to carry a revolver in the pocket then yes, I want it to be as slim n' trim as possible. My little S&W 637 is as good of a pocket gun as a .38 can be. Very lightweight and shoots better than it's owner!:mrgreen:

[FergusonTO35]

Thought I should post a long overdue update on the Rossi 461. I think the sluggish velocity was due to the yawning .012 barrel to cylinder gap. All my other wheelguns are .002-.006, so that is definitely not good. I had no idea if Rossi would even think there was a problem, but I figured I would find out for sure. I wrote up a nice letter explaining why I think .012 is too much and had my dealer send it back over the winter. The revolver finally showed back up last week, things sure move slow with them. Anyhow, I was amazed to see that Rossi had replaced both barrel and cylinder and the 461 now has a nice snug .003 gap with almost no endshake. Way to go Rossi!! Hopefully I can shoot it this weekend.

[FergusonTO35]

Update: fired the Rossi some before work today. First dozen rounds fired great, then the firing pin broke. I really don't feel like sending it back to Rossi again. Is there an S&W firing pin that will work? It looks K frame size to me.

[oldhenry]

The holster issue can be solved by www.mernickleholsters.com . Click under their concealed carry section or any other style that suits you & you'll find that they make the holster according to make, model, bbl. length, bbl. contour & caliber. You can't beat their price & their quality is first rate.

Henry