Working on accuracy

[fatelk]

I've been working on improving accuracy lately. I'm an experienced amateur and I don't have the time (or interest really) to shoot enough to be a competitor, but I do enjoy tinkering and improving. I read through the sticky thread "Improving accuracy" and the info there has helped me a lot (thanks guys!).

So, today I was shooting the old CZ75 9mm. I've recently started powder coating bullets. I was trying out a couple different loads using Lee 356-120-TC bullets. Shooting rested on sandbags at 25 yards I shot a couple 3.5" 5-shot groups, high and left. That's not too bad for me; I can usually do a little better with some of my revolvers. Again, I don't get a lot of practice and don't devote a lot of time to serious load development and accuracy. Mostly I go out with my son and we shoot for fun, tin cans and such.

For comparison today, I had along a few rounds of Speer Gold Dot ammo that have been sitting around for years and years. I focused my best and shot 5 rounds. I walked down to see a nice tight 1.5" group centered right above the bullseye! I shot another 3.5" group with my reloads, then for curiosity I shot the last three Gold Dots at the previous target. It opened the group up a little but still under 2.5". I had a few fmj factory reloads that had been laying around so I tried those too but they were worse than my reloads.

So, what I learned today: Gold Dots are good ammo, and my CZ75 seems to shoot them really well. On the other hand, I was assuming that I was the limiting factor in accuracy, but it appears that perhaps my ammo is. Maybe it's time to do some more testing and load development.

[tazman]

I have found that with autos, good jacketed ammo tends to be more accurate than lead boolits(for me anyway). With revolvers, the situation changes. Quite often the lead boolits equal or exceed the accuracy of jacketed.
It may be just my poor shooting form that makes this work this way for me but it seems to be consistent.

[robertbank]

I have to admit I really have not noticed and difference in accuracy between lead and plated/FMJ bullets in any of my pistols. I do use FMJ bullets when shooting a match to reduce the affect of smoke which in some cases can slow sight acquisition. I do think pistols tend to be more sensitive to bullet weight and design. My 9MM guns really shoot the 356402 bullet well when pushed along by 4.1 gr of 231.

Take Care

Bob
ps Given the state of my eyes others could well have different experiences.;-)

[fatelk]

I have a couple boxes of 9mm loaded with 124gr XTPs somewhere. I think I need to take them out when I get time one of these days and really see how they compare for accuracy. If this gun (and myself) is actually capable of better accuracy, I'm curious to see if there's anything I can do to get my cast, powder coated bullets to do better also.

[toallmy]

I am In search of the perfect Boolit and load myself , but I am afraid it is very illusive to me manly because I'm not that great of a shooter and I'm not shore my pistols are capable of small pretty groups . A short story , last fall my wife and myself were at a friend's house wile she was trying out a new handgun . She was hitting all around the pop cans in front of the sand hill when she stopped and said I can't shoot very good . Well my buddy suggested she shoot the bucket we used to pick up the cans , and Walla hit it every time . So the fellow said nope you shoot fine the target is just to small . I believe load development and Boolit choice will be a life long adventure for me . Trying to make the best shooting ammo you possibly can is part of the process .

[Blackwater]

Fatelk, this is EXACTLY the kind of testing that leads or allows us to become better. And once we learn what works in our gun, it's far better to shoot ONLY those loads we know will group, because not knowing whether any given shot was due to us or the ammo simply can't allow us to learn to do our best. I think you're on the road to becoming a rather good pistolero. All it really takes is proving stuff out instead of "assuming" things that we really don't know to be right. It's amazing what can be done when we KNOW our loads are good!

[44man]

Understand any nine is not made for target. Now something in an ACP might be made but hardly a nine. They can be improved but mostly the gun will limit.

[fatelk]

That sticky thread on accuracy has really helped me. I've been re-reading it and practicing a bit. I was able to get out again today and shot the attached 10 shot group at 25 yards, with my powder coated bullets, using bullets from a different mold (Accurate 125 TC).

Eight out of ten are within 1.5". The whole group is just 2.7". I'm very happy with that, if I can do it consistently. It seems to me that this is pretty good for an old beat up CZ75.

I shot a few through the Glock 22 also: eight out of ten within 2.4", with the two fliers making it 4". I wonder if the fliers are me or the gun.

I'm not looking to be a crack shot or a top competitor. I just like trying to do better with what I have. Thank you all for your help. The number one thing that has helped me so far has been learning to focus on the front sight.

[robertbank]

The gun IMHO. Two of us up here shot targets from a rest. He with a Glock and me with a CZ. The Glock was combat good...the CZ was better. CZ's lock up like a Bank vault in the 30's.

Take Care

Bob
ps Very good shooting I might add.

[wv109323]

I have found that reloading for a CZ 75B Omega was one of the more challenging items that I have undertaken. My bore was .3565 and the rifling extended within .006" of the chamber. When I got a lead bullet big enough for the bore (.358"), the bullet would hit the end of the chamber. The end of the chamber would shave lead and within 30 rounds the slide would not go into full battery because the accumulated lead at the front of the chamber would hold the round out.
I had the barrel throated so that a .358 bullet would chamber.
Also I had to get another belling die so that the .358 bullet would not be sized down when seated.
The pistol shot jacketed OK from the factory.

[robertbank]

WV109323 I would have returned the gun and requested a new barrel under warranty. CZ75's and their variants are known for their quality including their barrels. The 75B with the Omega internals are new production guns and are not known to have oversize bores. In fact yours are the first I have ever heard of. Shame to hear. I have slugged mine and all are bang on .355. I do size my bullets .357.

The CZ's do not have long chambers so OAL length is important. I load my cast 125 grain 356402 bullets 1.10" A bullet loaded long in a CZ won't chamber. I suspect that was the issue with your chambering problems, not lead accumulation. That would be something I have never seen or heard of.

Take Care

Bob

[fatelk]

I have an Accurate mold that I use for .38 special and 9mm. The front band is intentionally undersized. In .38 I crimp in the top groove, but in 9mm the crimp groove is out. It looks a little funny but it works fine. I seat the bullets a little longer that way.

Mine slugged at a hair under .356". I just started sizing to .357" for it. I had previously sized to .358" for my old BHP. I was getting a little leading with some loads in the CZ75 until I started powder coating. Now it's shiny and clean. I have to say that I do like the powder coating.

[dverna]

That sticky thread on accuracy has really helped me. I've been re-reading it and practicing a bit. I was able to get out again today and shot the attached 10 shot group at 25 yards, with my powder coated bullets, using bullets from a different mold (Accurate 125 TC).

Eight out of ten are within 1.5". The whole group is just 2.7". I'm very happy with that, if I can do it consistently. It seems to me that this is pretty good for an old beat up CZ75.

I shot a few through the Glock 22 also: eight out of ten within 2.4", with the two fliers making it 4". I wonder if the fliers are me or the gun.

I'm not looking to be a crack shot or a top competitor. I just like trying to do better with what I have. Thank you all for your help. The number one thing that has helped me so far has been learning to focus on the front sight.

Are you shooting off a rest or handheld? I like my Glocks, but they will not shoot a ragged hole at 25 yards. At least not as they come from the factory.

With regard to accuracy, shooting a few brands of factory ammo will reveal what you can expect from the gun. And you doing it right by shooting 10 round groups. Use a rest as that will help you call any fliers. You should be able to do as well with cast bullets.

Another suggestion is to have a good pistol shot test your gun off a rest. They are good because they focus on sight alignment, and have mastered trigger control. If a Master or high Expert Bullseye shooter is getting 4" groups off a rest, that is the limit of your gun/ammo.

[bouncer50]

Understand any nine is not made for target. Now something in an ACP might be made but hardly a nine. They can be improved but mostly the gun will limit. I would for the most part agree the 9mm bore size range from 354 to 359 in my 9mm that i own. Hard to make one size bullet to shoot accurate in different 9mm pistol. For the most part new out of the box 9mm,40 cal,45acp expect to be combat accurate. Now for target shooting i will take a wheel gun in 38-357 mag. In my Ruger, Colts, S&W 357 mags the bore size is 355 to 358 using my cast bullets they average one to 2 1/2 groups at 25 yards with a 357 size bullets one size bullet shoot good in my wheel guns. It take a auto a lot more work to shoot accurate like refitting all the loose parts. Then you might have a gun that not dependable for combat anymore. The 1911 and others was design for combat not a target gun.