New Charter Arms Bulldog 3 inch shot today

[Ohio Rusty]

I acquired a new manufacture Charter Arms Bulldog 3 inch barrel like the ones they made in the 70's. Finish is real nice and the action is real smooth. I also acquired a Pro Chrono digital so I could finally test my reloads. I fired 2 different rounds this evening. The reloads were the 429348 180 grain wadcutter loaded on top of 4.7 grain of reddot. The other was a couple cylinders of Corbon 165 grain jacketed hollowpoints
The wad cutters were light and easy to shoot, giving an average velocity at about 15 feet of 640 fps over 20 rounds. There were a couple of odd readings of a couple of shots -- 615 fps and 690 fps.
The Corbons are rated out of the box at 1050 fps. My chrono gave measurements of 927 fps to 950 fps for 10 rounds with the 3 inch barrel. The Bulldog was easy to shoot and not overly punishing with the Corbon rounds.

The Bulldog pistol sports a pair of Pachmayr compact grips that I came across at a flea market last weekend (What a great find !!) Those grips really do a good job of handling any felt recoil. You definitely want to wear ear protection while practicing as this pistol is really loud and will ring your ears. This pistol will make an excellent concealed carry pistol. Alot more practice is necessary to become more proficient with this pistol, but most of my shots were easily kept in a 4 by 5 square slow fire with the hammer cocked back. I got out my metal detector and found some of the 429348's to see how they did in the hard dirt. only two of the nine that I found were face deformed. More loads and testing to continue and will be posted here ......
176148176149176150

[buckwheatpaul]

Thanks for the info....been thinkin' about getting one....

[35remington]

Those wadcutters driven to 850 fps or so ought to put a thump on something. Jack up the Red Dot until you get there. Hopefully they don't hit too low at typical distances.

[Don Purcell]

Had one in the late 70's, wish I had it back. Used 250 Keith with 7.5 Unique. Would get your attention.

[pietro]

.

I like my ca.Y2K Bulldog - which was issued with rubber bumpers.


http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0071_zpsdo0qclsl.jpg

.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm going to pick up a new Undercover today if I can get off work in time. I've had a couple of the current production Charters and found them to be excellent guns. I didn't know a metal detector would pick up lead. Sweet, now I can more easily mine my backyard range!

[Guesser]

I have one of the new Target Bulldogs; 4" barrel and adjustable sights, good gun, so far.

[B. Lumpkin]

Great write up!! In my experience, the Charter Arms revolvers are a good value. I've never had a problem with them and I currently own 5 of them. A .327, 38 special, 357 magnum, 44 special, 45 acp.

[winelover]

Recently purchased a SS Bulldog "On Duty" in 44SPL.......with a shrouded hammer. Revolver shot low with most loads I've tried......even 240 grain cast. Finally, got it to print to POA with NOE's 265 RNFP bullet. Factory loadings, with light for caliber bullets, were the worst offenders......@ "5 low at 10 yards.

I ordered this revolver through my LGS and it took six months to show up. I was searching on GB and found a few for sale but at or near MSRP. With shipping, credit card and transfer fees......I passed them up. The finish is a bit rough, especially the cylinder flutes. Cylinder gap is almost nonexistent and the throats are pretty uniform a .432 diameter. No leading and satisfied with the accuracy for use as DAO "belly gun". However, the recoil shield is developing indents from the star extractor......probably will need to be sent back to Charter Arms, sometime in the future. Most of my shooting is done with 4.5 grains of Bullseye and 240 cast RNFP......not a very "hot" load.

Winelover

176263

[Forrest r]

Been owning/using/shooting bulldogs for decades. A 44spl snub nosed revolver hits allot harder than most people realize. Heck the 44spl is 1 of those forgotten calibers.

There's been allot of talk about the "FBI" bullet for the 38spl, it's a 158gr hb hp swc. Their thinking was that they will get more/better velocity from a wider range of different firearms with a hollow base bullet. Winchester's version of the fbi/38spl bullet.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/82aebed3-109c-4e9d-9b09-2d36e8fb01c3_zpsnrgnkv9f.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/82aebed3-109c-4e9d-9b09-2d36e8fb01c3_zpsnrgnkv9f.jpg.html)

Buffalo bore came out with a hard hitting 1000fps/snub nosed revolver load for the 38spls using a 158gr hp.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108

Why all the talk about 38spls??? Because if a snub nosed 38spl can do it, so can a snub nosed 44spl.

I need to make up 40# of soft alloy to cast hp's for the 44sp/45acp. I used junk lead for these tests and it's a little too brittle. Heck the raphine 195gr hb fn's were cast last year from a hard rifle alloy. I was casting from a single cavity mold (extremely slow) so I grabbed a 2nd mold to cast with. I wanted to see how hard I could push a hard alloyed hb bullet. Needless to say I forgot all about them and used them for these tests. Too many irons in the fire!!!
Anyway I cast some 429422 hb bullets and the hard raphine hb bullets and used a forster hp tool to put a cupped hp in them.
I soaked bundles of tightly wrapped wet newpaper for 24 hours to do these tests.
I used the same chronograph as the op and set it up 10ft from the muzzle and did 10-shot test strings.

Top left:
A 220gr 429422 hb swc that I put a cupped hp in, the end result was a 210gr hb hp swc (my version of the 38spl/fbi bullet)
Top right:
A 220gr Mihec hbwc turned backwards to make a huge hp
Bottom left:
A h&g #142 200gr hp swc (Thompson design)
Bottom right:
A raphine 195gr hb fn bullet. I'm going to have to cast more of these out of a soft alloy and re-test them. I put a hp in them and the end result was a 185gr hb hp fn bullet.

The hard raphine bullets didn't expand and went thru 13+" of wet paper. The rest of the bullets went thru 9+" of wet paper. A picture of the loaded rounds, recovered bullets and what the bullet looked like befor they were loaded/shot.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/1c294e6c-d002-4b74-807e-5d6064902af9_zps8worlmj8.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/1c294e6c-d002-4b74-807e-5d6064902af9_zps8worlmj8.jpg.html)

That 210gr hb hp swc is extremely impressive. That 2400 bullet/powder combo is extremely impressive.
Well there it is a 1000fps load (buffalo bore load) for a snub nosed 44psl using a "FBI" style hb hp swc.

38spl ='s 1000fps 158 hp swc
44spl ='s 1000fps 210gr hb hp swc

I used this 2 1/2" bbl'd bulldog to do the testing.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/3inchbbl_zps5d3a2f29.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/3inchbbl_zps5d3a2f29.jpg.html)

Actually any of those bullet/loads I tested (pictured above) are impressive.

Enjoy your new ca bulldog

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ohio Rusty, your two "odd" readings aren't odd at all. You just discovered the typical velocity spread you get using small charges in large cases. To verify this, try pointing the muzzle at the ground before firing, then try some shots pointing the muzzle skyward before firing. You'll see the difference in velocity you get between powder next to boolit vs powder next to primer.

Chronographs are as fun as new pistols. Enjoy both. Good tools.

[FergusonTO35]

Different primers can make a big difference too. Federal primers are the very best for Bullseye. Remington and CCI work well, Winchester not so much until you bump up the charge. Titegroup seems to be fairly insensitive to what kind of primers are used so I use Winchester.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Rusty the only thing I would add to the above comments is to not feed a steady diet of those hotrod loads to that gun. It will loosen up quickly.

A 250 gr Keith boolit at 900fps will go clean thru an Elk. One at 750fps will do virtually anything you would want from the gun and will be easier to shoot and the gun will last a lot longer.

People don't seem to realize that there isn't any really good reason to hot rod the large calibers. That Big Boolit is what does the damage and it will do that damage at any speed.

It becomes more about being able to actually hit the target with that Boolit, and a good midrange load will be more likely to accomplish that than a full house hotrod load. It is just easier to shoot.

I highly recommend that you get a copy of "Handloader Magazine #236" It has the best article on loading the .44 Special in several different pressure ranges and explains which ones are good for what guns. The Article is by Brian Pearce and it is very complete. Best $5 you'll spend. Once you read this article a few times you'll understand the ways to get the most out of your gun, and also understand it's limitations.

Randy

[Forrest r]

A 250 gr Keith boolit at 900fps will go clean thru an Elk. One at 750fps will do virtually anything you would want from the gun and will be easier to shoot and the gun will last a lot longer.
750fps rules out any hp's

It becomes more about being able to actually hit the target with that Boolit, and a good midrange load will be more likely to accomplish that than a full house hotrod load. It is just easier to shoot.
Well said everyone should use mousfart loads in their sd snub nosed revolvers because they're easier to shoot.

I highly recommend that you get a copy of "Handloader Magazine #236" It has the best article on loading the .44 Special in several different pressure ranges and explains which ones are good for what guns. The Article is by Brian Pearce and it is very complete. Best $5 you'll spend. Once you read this article a few times you'll understand the ways to get the most out of your gun, and also understand it's limitations.
Why spend $5??? Pearce's article has been on this website for free for years.
Pearce recommends 16gr of 2400 pushing a 250gr bullet for the ca bulldogs. Who's doing the hotrodding???

Randy

Like I said in my earlier post, the 44spl is 1 of those forgotten calibers that people really don't know allot about.

A link to Pearce's article, in it he recommends 16gr of 2400 pushing a 250 gr (429421) keith bullet for firearms like the bulldog.
Pearce's 16gr of 2400 pushing a 250gr bullet
My 15.5gr (15 1/2gr) of 2400 pushing a 210gr bullet

I wonder who is doing the hotrodding???
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian%20Pearce%20on%20the%2044%20Special.pdf

The actual 429422 bullet was tested decades ago by the nra. There was allot of issues with the 44spl when they changed from the ballon-headed cases to the modern cases we use today. They did testing with different "common" cast bullets people used in that era. One of the bullets they tested was the lyman 429422. In their tests they used 16gr (there's that magic 16gr of 2400 again) of 2400 with the lyman 429422 and found that load/combo (429422/16gr 2400) gave 16,900psi.

The nra test results that thy released decades ago with the 429422/16gr2400/16,900psi load.
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/NRA%20-%20Loads%20for%20the%2044%20Special.pdf

Pearce rated the ca bulldogs at 22,000psi.
I used 1/2gr less than the nra 16 gr load + took 10gr out of the bullet making it weigh 210gr by using a forster hp tool (drillbit).

At the end of the day I took 10gr out of the bullet and 1/2gr off the powder from a 16,900psi load dropping it into the 15,000+psi range.
Hot load? Absolutely!!!!
Hotrod load? Absolutely not!!!

You want hotrod loads duplicate the recommended Pearce loads.
Pearce's load ='s 22,000psi
My load ='s 15,000+psi

Do I recommend a steady diet of any heavy load in a snub nosed revolver? No.
But then again I not buy fixed sighted snub nosed revolvers to target practice with.

Personally I use snub nosed revolvers for sd, I owned/used the 44spl buldogs for decades. I prefer to use hard hitting loads in any sd firearm and the bulldogs are no different. I also never recommend using light loads in a caliber/firearm because the shooter can't control the firearm. I instead recommend they change firearms/calibers, it's just smarter/safer thing to do.

The loads/bullets I pictured/tested in my earlier post are to show people that the true abilities of the 44spl. None of those loads were excessive/hotrodding/max loads by any means. Compared to the "Pearce" loads they are actually pretty mild in comparison.

Like I said, the 44spl is one of those forgotten calibers.

Good luck

[Guesser]

The only problem I ever had with a CA revolver was a cracked frame on a 327 Target Patriot; the replaced it with the Target Bulldog based on the 327 being out of production and having a lifetime warranty. Good guns, good company.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Forrest: I don't believe you got the full context of my post.

CA Bulldogs aren't really that easy to hit with when shooting 16 gr of 2400 . In fact they are quite snappy and not that easy to hold onto for repeated shots and the average shooter won't hit anything like that. Brian also stated in that article that whereas the gun would take 22,000psi loads they would loosen up quickly, and they were also unpleasant to shoot with that level of loading. The loads in the 15K psi range were much more useful.

MY HP's expand fully at 750 fps. They have a hole with 5 sides , but I have found that my gun, a S&W 696, performs better with solids anyway, and even though I have no direct experience, I doubt anyone would survive a Center Mass hit with a 250 gr SWC at any speed. and also would consider that 750 fps will go clean thru a man pretty easily. More just opens you up to collateral damage.

My point was in order to inflict damage you first must hit the target. I see no need to load this round to higher velocities than about 900fps, and that would be in my BH Bisley as the same loads in the 3" 696 won't go that fast anyway.

I guess YMMV but I think it is more important to hit the target slower than to miss it faster. I also am in the Larger Boolit = Better camp. .45's at 750-850fps have been the mainstay of Military Handgun rounds for over a century. The reason is,,, big boolits hurt more.

The main reason why the Military went with the 9MM had nothing to do with accuracy and smaller people being able to shoot it better. It had to do with Ammunition Costs and sucking up to NATO. And we are seeing our Elite Military Units going back to the .45 ACP now that the new ness has worn off the 9MM and guys got sick of having to shoot more than once to stop and determined foe.

As far as the $5? that issue also has some other good articles in it, and the print quality is better.

Randy

[jonp]

W.R.: you find the penta hp's dramatically different in expansion from straight hp's? Any testng of each at different velocities?

[W.R.Buchanan]

NO, but since the hole is bigger the resistance to opening is less. Therefore they will upset at a lower velocity given the same medium to penetrate.

But since I don't get to shoot that many people, I can't verify how it will work in the real world.

However if I did get to shoot people, I would prefer to be shooting solid boolits just because they penetrate better and a .44 cal. hole (7/16") is going to dump a lot of Hydraulic Fluid on the ground fast especially if it is a thru hole. These big boolits generally do their work by penetrating deeply or completely thru the subject, resulting in large wound channels and inducing massive blood loss.

Mind you either one of the boolits shown will do massive damage to a person so we are kind of splitting hairs here. In short if you got hit by either one at any velocity from any gun it would ruin your day, and if it is in the chest most probably end your day.

Now keep in mind that I have no personal experience here, but I have shot several watermelons and they all blew up like they had charges in them,,, so I can kind of speculate that I'm not too far off when saying what I'm saying. Really I'm just restating the obvious.

People really need to have some idea of the power that they are wielding. We look to Hollywood for some of that reality, and that can be a little dramatic sometimes but there also is a bit of reality in it as well. If you hunt you can see what happens to a game animal for a dose of reality as well, and there are plenty of people here who hunt a lot.

All of the large caliber Revolvers are very formidable weapons and the amount of force they exert should be respected by all.

Both Boolits shown below are from the same Mihec Mould and weigh 245 and 260 gr.

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

I have always been leery of buying a charter arms due to their reputation. I was looking at their new ones in 40S&W. Guy I know at a gun shop told me they are often junk coming out of the box new. But I know he is a bit of a snob, and I have no idea how many of these guns actually comes thru his shop. So are the new ones decent enough to buy?

[jonp]

Id take your gun store guy's comment with a large grain of salt and the suspicion he wants to sell you a more expensive gun. Just youtube the reviews. Everything ive read about them is pretty positive

[Walkingwolf]

I have always been leery of buying a charter arms due to their reputation. I was looking at their new ones in 40S&W. Guy I know at a gun shop told me they are often junk coming out of the box new. But I know he is a bit of a snob, and I have no idea how many of these guns actually comes thru his shop. So are the new ones decent enough to buy?
I just bought a pitbull last month, so far it works. It is stiff ejecting blazer ammo, but brass pops right out. I was surprised at the decent velocity out of a 2.2 inch barrel, I only lost about 50 fps from 890 in my Glock 22.

[35remington]

That is because when measured the same way the barrel length ain't much different than a Glock 22.

[Tackleberry41]

Its not just a gun store guy situation. But somebody I have known a long time, who works in a gun shop. Hes a bit stuck in a rut when it comes to guns, its not an AR15 or a Glock well its really not worth owning or even shooting. I have no idea how many charter arms he has even handled or sold.

[Forrest r]

Did extensive testing the Mihec 44cal hp's several years ago. in 2", 2 1/2", 4", 6 1/2" & 10 bbl'd firearms. At the end of the day I found that the:
Penta point hp's did their best in the 800fps to 1000fps
Large round hp's 1000fps to 1200fps
Small round hp's 1200fps to 1400fps
I've posted this same comment for several years on this forum and still do to this day.

The problem with the penta hp's doing 700fps/750fps/775fps is not that they don't open or that you have to cast them with pure lead/close to pure lead alloy so they will open. It's actually that they do open and slow the bullet down too much drastically decreasing penetration.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/93019292-24db-4523-9b6a-a1e9713f36e8_zpscuaszhrw.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/93019292-24db-4523-9b6a-a1e9713f36e8_zpscuaszhrw.jpg.html)

I'm glad W. R found a load that he can control, everyone should only use what they can handle. My girlfriends cc with her favorite load, those 220gr hbwc's turned backwards doing 975fps. For some reason she doesn't have all those problems/issues W R posted earlier. That pistol is #390,xxx and hasn't fallen apart yet.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/3inchbbl_zps5d3a2f29.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/3inchbbl_zps5d3a2f29.jpg.html)

A little interesting reading documenting real world shooting results with some common calibers.
38spl p+
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=8&Weight=All
44spl
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=14&Weight=All
45acp
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All
9mm
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All

In over 8,000+ documented shootings in 4 different calibers the same theme keeps coming up, doesn't matter the caliber.

The longer bbl'd firearms outperformed the shorted bbl'd firearms.
The specialty bullets outperformed the rn/swc/fmj's.
When the same bullet/ammo was listed the longer bbl'd firearms outperformed the shorter bbl'd firearms.

MFG's like buffalo bore that are in the business of making sd ammo came up with 190gr to 200gr bullets doing 900+fps to 1000fps for the 44spl snub nosed revolvers. For some odd reason they don't have a 250gr/260gr 750fps sd load????
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=1

Companies like winchester only sell 200gr silvertips (900fps) in their 44spl line of ammo. But they also sell a cowboy action lead bullet load in 44spl (240gr/755fps).
http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/Pages/default.aspx

Companies like remington don't even sell you a high performance 44spl load. But they will sell you a 246gr rn 755fps load listed in their "Target" ammo section.
https://images.remington-catalog.com/573cd8f396446

Federal on the other hand only sell a sd ammo/load for the 44spl. A 200gr swc hp listed @870fps.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=117

Odd that the same theme keeps coming up with the ammunition mfg's that did with the 8,000+ documented shootings.
Lighter faster bullets VS slower heavier bullets
Specialty bullets VS rn/swc/fmj's
All the sd ammo is lighter, faster & either has huge meplates or hp's for some odd reason compared to their heavier slower target grade ammo counterparts.

It could be argued that the smaller/shorter/lighter firearms are harder to control so that's why the shorter bbl's didn't preform as well. Myself I believe it has more to do with the velocity. Ballistics by the inch as excellent examples of that. Cor Bon 200gr 44spl load does 713fps in a 2" bbl and 1098fps in a 6" bbl.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

Really everyone should do some serous testing along with reading/studying what other reloads and ammo mfg's are doing. Short bbl'd firearms are a whole different animal when it comes to ammunition performance along with the ability to affectively shoot the shorter bbl'd lighter firearms. People like W R can only handle target loads where my girlfriend can handle sd loads. There's nothing wrong with that but you start looking at how affective some of these light target loads are.

And yes I do know a little bit about light target loads in the bulldogs after owning them for 30+years. My favorite plinking/target load is 5.0gr of bullsye/am select/red dot/green dot/titegroup/hp-38 or trailboss or 4.5gr of clays pushing any 180gr to 200 wc. hb bullets do extremely well for mousefart loads in the 44spl also if you keep them around 725fpr to 775fps.

But I also know and understand that my & my girlfriends life is worth more than the pistol. So I could care less if it ever gets loose from shooting what some people consider "HOT" loads (15,000+psi). Instead of parroting what Brain Pearce wrote in a article we choose to do real world testing. But then again I buy these types of firearms for a reason and it ain't so I can play/plink with them.

Enjoy your ca's

[W.R.Buchanan]

Forrest: I did find the articles posted useful and never would have thought that the lighter boolits were better for shooting people. I was especially impressed with the .45 ACPs shooting 230gr Hydrashocks. They were only penetrating <14" and had a 96% success rate. As opposed to the regular 230gr FMJs penetrating 13-20" with only a 60-65 % success rate. I guess that's why they teach us to double tap.

OK,,, well the highlight of today was shooting Short Range Silhouette with my .44 Specials and surprisingly all the boolits were able to travel the required distances and knock down the steel targets despite their inherent weakness. Both the Rugers were shooting to some other place but I managed to hit one chicken (50M) and one pig (100M.) Much worse than I thought would happen but still reasonably satisfying..

However the highlight of the day was hitting a Turkey at 150M with my 696,,, with 5 people watching. Followed by oohs and aahs.

I also managed to graze one Ram and closely miss two others at 200 M with this 3" bbl'd gun. Hitting anything at distances beyond 25 yards with that gun is a decent trick. I also had to unload these cartridges as they need to get pumped up to about 825-50 fps. which should be right at 6.0 gr of W231. With the X Frame Grip on the gun it is very shootable and I could easily shoot 40-50 rounds in one sitting with no after effects. It should be noted that a S&W696 weighs 36 oz and a Bulldog only weighs 18 so recoil could be a problem if many shots are fired with heavier loads in one sitting.

I'm sure Forrest and his girlfriend have gotten past the recoil issue as it sounds like they shoot a lot.

Since I live in California and it would take over a year to get a CCW Permit, and you'd end up in jail if you ever used it,,, I don't have much use for a larger carry gun. And if I did it would be my G36 or G21SF and not a revolver. I do however venture out into the wilderness from time to time and that was the role I had intended for the 696, and I am confident I could hit something large inside of 50 yards with it if needed. Since the main threats would be Black Bears, Mountain Lions, Poachers or Pot Growers with the first two being the most likely I choose to go with the solids pushed up to 800 ish. For the Poachers or Pot Growers I'd prefer to have my AR, Kel-Tec or Mini14 with me.

As I said I live in CA and all of these threats are real so I never go anywhere Off Road in my Jeep without Guns, and I personally think anyone who does is downright dumb. Too much Ship happening nowadays and when you get out in the wilderness people think nobody is watching and tend to get a little more froggy and cocky than they normally would in public. One should be prepared for different situations.

YMMV.

Randy

[Walkingwolf]

I have always been leery of buying a charter arms due to their reputation. I was looking at their new ones in 40S&W. Guy I know at a gun shop told me they are often junk coming out of the box new. But I know he is a bit of a snob, and I have no idea how many of these guns actually comes thru his shop. So are the new ones decent enough to buy?

I am a new happy owner of a CA Pitbull, so far so good. Keep in mind they are light handguns, and going to have more felt recoil, that said mine is not too bad, the rubber grips do a good job.

[Forrest r]

Well that's nice but things are a tiny bit different in Ohio then CA. In my little neck of the woods they hand out cc's like they are candy at halloween. The city I live in is nothing more than a war zone as is the county. Starting in 2010 this is what the county judges statement to the residents of the county was.
http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=14698

You defend yourself and end up before them they don't ask about no stinkin ammo, how it happened, nothing/nada. They just give you a pat on the back and send you back to the world.

In the last couple months within 6 houses either way on the street where I live there's been the swat team next door taking down 3 gang bangers that just murdered a rival and was using the house as a safe house. Had the people across the street robbed (house invasion) at gunpoint at 10:00am. And a guy robbed at knife point, another home invasion at midnight. Cut the guy up and took his wallet (5 days ago). Myself, 3 idiots tried to jump me at 7:00 pm as I was walking to the house. I was only carrying knife's but it didn't end as they had planned. The end result was I got a prison haircut the next day (shaved head) so there's no more hair grabbing. I typically have a 1/4" flattop which reminds me time for another hair cut.

This ain't off roading, this is on the road I live on.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Forrest: in your case I'd be armed to the teeth too,,, and at all times including in the shower. The only thing I'd suggest is moving as you might not be so lucky next time.

The thing about people like this is that they have fairly good memories and they don't give up or give a ship about your life or even theirs. They figure they have nothing to lose. We have places like that out here and they are as bad or worse than yours. In fact CA pretty much invented them ! The only way to stop Gang Violence is to eliminate the gangs, and I'm not talking about clogging the jails with them either.

Right now there is no political will to do this and maybe Trump will be the one . Just look at Chicago, not a week goes by that they don't kill 25 people, and yet their leaders do nothing. In order to deal with force, you must use overwhelming force, simple as that, but ******* never will,,, and that's why our country looks weak to the rest of the world.

The overwhelming Force I am talking about is not the local SWAT Team. It is hired Contractors who are not bound by a bunch of rules, and yes there may be some collateral damage. But the problem would get fixed, and you'd only have to do it every once in a while!

In LA alone which is 65 miles from me,,, the Mexican Mafia can field a Well Armed Standing Army of 150,000 people in 4 hours ,,, From Jail! They can do it in Oakland as well. The Police leave them alone as they do police their own fairly well, but they still tend to spill over into urban areas sometimes and that's why I have lots of guns. But I'm not going to be using my 696 for home defense, it will be my Glock .45 and my M500 or AR!

I live in semi rural area and the typical response time for LE is about 15-20 minutes. The Sheriffs told me to do what I had to, and they'd come and clean up the mess. The mess they'd be cleaning up here would most likely be of Latin decent.

I would never consider answering the door after about 6PM without a gun in my hand, and my wife wouldn't even answer the door at all.

If they Break In, they won't get out. And if they do get outside they get dragged back in just for show.

Remember I said,,, "willing?"

Randy