Dies for old CH Swage O Matic

[Traffer]

Hi Folks,
Well I went and bought an old Swage O Matic for my 22lr swaging projects. Yes you read that right. 22lr swaging, not using 22lr for brass to make 223 bullets but actually making swaged bullets for a 22lr. So far I have made tools to do the job but have not had a press. So the tools are made for either a general screw or arbor press or tapping with a hammer. The press I got will be excellent once I make a die holder for it. It came with no dies at all. If you are not familiar with the Swage O Matic, It uses a proprietary die size. Might be the same as old Herters big presses but not sure. The ram is different (bigger) than the other CH presses. I bought a new ram thinking that it would fit. No go. It looks like a 7/8x 16 or 18 thread. I counted 17 threads in an inch but couldn't see them well. So I figure it is either a 16 or 18 tpi thread. Probably 18. I am posting this because I cannot find ANYTHING that will fit in that ram. There are no dies on the market that I can find. I was hoping that someone here would have something in that size that I could cut to use as a die holder for my homemade 22lr dies. My other alternative would be to hire someone to make something on a lathe which I do not have. So, Is there anyone out there who can give me more info on the exact size of this or even better someone who has a die or holder that will fit that they would part with? Thanks

[Wayne Smith]

Give Dave Davidson a call at CH4D. He has what is left of the CH stuff in drawers and bins and is very helpful once you describe what you need.

[gwpercle]

If Dave doesn't have what you need on hand , he might be able to make one for you .
Super nice guy that has a lot of knowledge about CH tools .
His number is 740-397-7214 M-F 10 am-6pm EST.
Call him so you can give him all the info he might need.
Gary

[Traffer]

I hate to bother someone of that magnitude. I have figured out what to do anyway. The ram is made from 1" bar stock. It would be easy to make a new ram and drill and tap the end with the threads that I choose. I am going to standardize my 22lr reloading dies to this new thread size. I haven't decided what size yet for sure but I am leaning towards 1/2" NF. It is very inexpensive for taps dies etc. and the bolts fit in my 1/2" chuck which I use to turn the dies with. But thanks very much for the suggestion. I appreciate any and all help.

[bruce drake]

Give CH4D a call! I called them last week for a nose punch for a 409 Press set that C&H once made 50 years ago. They were very helpful and even found one of the pieces I needed and didn't charge me an arm and a leg for it. CH4D are quality people. I bought a 30-223Rem die set from them that is better in finish than many of my RCBS and definitely my Hornady dies. Quality!

[Wayne Smith]

Don't worry about calling Dave. I usually call him in the evening Esatern time because I work and, if he is not super busy, may talk for 15 min or half an hour!

[Traffer]

Don't worry about calling Dave. I usually call him in the evening Esatern time because I work and, if he is not super busy, may talk for 15 min or half an hour!
I may call him to discuss how I am going to modify the press. I bought the press to be a dedicated press for reloading 22lr. The biggest need I have in that area is to swage bullets for the 22lr. They are rebated, hollow based boat tail bullets of 2 different diameters. In that sense they are very hard to swage. However, I am just swaging the lead, not making plated bullets, so the press does not have to be as strong as it would. There are not and never have been 22lr dies, either for sizing and reloading or swaging. All has to be made from scratch. That is why I have decided to make a new ram for it. I will be using a thread standard that will be easier for me to work with, cheaper and more available. (bolts that I can buy at the hardware store). I would love to use 1/2" NF threads but that is awfully narrow even for 22lr. A better option would be to go to 5/8" NF. However I do not have a lathe. All the dies are made by turning on a 1/2" drill press. Without being able to chuck the 5/8" stock or bolts, there is no way I will be able to make them concentric. That would leave me with two options. One, hire someone to make the dies (out of the question, since I have a shoe string budget) or find a way to spin 5/8" stock in a 1/2" drill press.
I know that this is not something that you are able to advise me on, but appreciate the opportunity to just get this out there where someone might have some ideas for me. Also helps me formulate just what to discuss with Dave for when I call him. Another note, I am just now studying the books and papers to figure out how the swaging process has been developed and exactly how the swage-o-matic is set up. I need to have a good understanding of it if I am going to use it to design the dies and process for 22lr.

[Wayne Smith]

If Dave isn't extremely busy he loves things that intrigue him. This will definitely qualify, if you have a good ability to describe just what you want to do and how you want to do it. I don't know this but he strikes me as an engineer.

[abunaitoo]

Can you post a picture.
Easier to see what you need.

[Wayne Smith]

For the die if you have the 5/8 stock you need to rebate the bottom a little and drill an accurate through hole. Do you have a die to use as a model? That would be your best bet, either buy a die of any size and make an insert with the .22 through hole and find a way to keep it in place. Or use it as a model to make what you need. I'm not sure you can accurately do any of this with a drill press, you need to ream to get the accuracy you need. Thus you need to find reamers of the proper diameter to get the accuracy you need. Drills make oval holes, not round.

[Traffer]

For the die if you have the 5/8 stock you need to rebate the bottom a little and drill an accurate through hole. Do you have a die to use as a model? That would be your best bet, either buy a die of any size and make an insert with the .22 through hole and find a way to keep it in place. Or use it as a model to make what you need. I'm not sure you can accurately do any of this with a drill press, you need to ream to get the accuracy you need. Thus you need to find reamers of the proper diameter to get the accuracy you need. Drills make oval holes, not round.
Thank you for the advise. Actually what I have is a top die and just the ram on the bottom. The ram is of larger diameter than a normal CH press. It is 1" diameter. The hardest part of drilling holes in dead center is getting actual center and holding it through the cut. I have reamers of the correct sizes and if I need others I will buy them. I am not quite sure I know what you mean by having a die for a model. I guess the die would be the one that screws into the ram. The ram has 7/8" x 20 tpi. My plan is to make a new ram and tap it to 1/2" national fine thread. Then I can make my dies out of 1/2" NF bolts. Which are cheap. I would love to make the hole bigger and use a bigger bolt but I do not have a bigger tap. I can check ebay for a 5/8" NF, I guess. That would be a better size to make dies from. The top has a die with a .30 hole. I imagine it is for swaging 30 caliber bullets. I have an old copy of a manual for this but still cannot figure out exactly how it works. I need to know that before designing the dies. They are pretty complicated with a push out pin and a hollow base punch and some sort of top punch. The originals I believe had springs that would push out the bullet when done. Making that type of die is going to be a pretty big challenge since I don't have a lathe.

[Traffer]

Wow, I just checked eBay. They have taps and dies for my every need. First they have 7/8 x14tpi taps for under $10...bought one. Also bought a 5/8 x 18 tap. They also have 7/8 x 20 dies for under $15...gonna get one. They I can cut threads on 7/8" stock and make dies the correct diameter and thread for the swage o matic. Woo hoo. What great news. I figured these large taps and dies would be cost prohibitive and that cutting threads that large would only be practical on a lathe. Now I am back in business. I also downloaded a bunch of literature about swaging dies, their function and how to make them. Got "Making Loading Dies & Bullet Molds" and some literature from Corbins on dies and their function. Now I can educate myself on how this stuff works and start making some more functional stuff here. Woo Hoo. My Swag-O-Matic came with the "Bullet Nose Punch Holder" and locking ring. This screws in on the top. That is all that came with the press. The rest I have to make. It appears that D, E, F, G, and H are the parts I have to fabricate. Without any specs, examples, pictures etc. If anyone has anything that would help me out on this I would appreciate it. (specs, pictures, explanations etc)
176653 It doesn't seem that pdf files work on this. Will make a screen shot...176654

[Wayne Smith]

Then your press is very different than mine - which is a Herter's copy of the CH. It uses a drop in two diameter body die with a capture nut on top. The nose point die screws into a bolt (5/16" if I remember right) in the top if the press.

[bruce drake]

Dave (CH4D) even called me yesterday to discuss a C&H 409 Model nose punch that he found when rooting around in their back storage for someone else! THAT is good customer service.

[rmatchell]

Ch4d is great to deal with. As for reloading 22lr, you have more drive than I do. 25 acp is hard enough to load for me