20 round wonder Full auto Trigger assembly

[6bg6ga]

Got a new drop in trigger for the wife's 300 Blackout and got a surprise. This absolutely wonderful crisp breaking trigger of less than 4lbs delivered a surprise. It started firing 2-3 round bursts. Everything was absolutely stock in the fire control group and I dropped in this $160.00 wonder she purchased new at the local gun show. I thought I was going to get arrested at the local range as I heard comments "He's firing full automatic"

[dale2242]

I have seen 2 ARs that had "trigger jobs" by "gunsmiths" that would double tap automatically.
I assume they are changing some angles in the trigger.
Both had to have replacement triggers to solve the problem....dale

[popper]

Trikent triggers represent a revolutionary idea in trigger design. Using a patent pending hybrid system, the triggers deliver an unbelievable shooting experience for every level of shooter. From their web page. I'll bet that was an experience.

[wiljen]

I had a norinco m14 that would double or triple constantly. Trigger group from a GI gun cured it.

[B. Lumpkin]

Try an ALG for a decent trigger on the cheap.

[6bg6ga]

I would appreciate it if I didn't get anymore private messages asking if I wanted to sell the trigger assembly. I do not wish to have a visit from the ATF nor do I wish to pay a fine or do time behind bars.

[wonderwolf]

That's a good reason to always load 1 round, fire and then load 3 or so and fire when testing something as critical as your new trigger assembly.

Also the guys at the range who were trying to get you in trouble or shame you or whatever sound like dicks. No need for anybody to be pointing out the obvious. Our range does not allow FA stuff but we don't get super excited when somebody with a new AR showed up and had a similar issue, you fix it and move on.

[6bg6ga]

I have seen 2 ARs that had "trigger jobs" by "gunsmiths" that would double tap automatically.
I assume they are changing some angles in the trigger.
Both had to have replacement triggers to solve the problem....dale

Sir, this was a replacement trigger assembly.

[6bg6ga]

That's a good reason to always load 1 round, fire and then load 3 or so and fire when testing something as critical as your new trigger assembly.

Also the guys at the range who were trying to get you in trouble or shame you or whatever sound like dicks. No need for anybody to be pointing out the obvious. Our range does not allow FA stuff but we don't get super excited when somebody with a new AR showed up and had a similar issue, you fix it and move on.

Sir, I always try any new gun or gun changes with one round in the chamber as its only common sense to do so. After having done this I progressed to 3 then 5 then 10 rounds in my 10 round magazine. All had worked well for a time.

[6bg6ga]

From their web page. I'll bet that was an experience.

Still cleaning my shorts

[Vann]

My Armalite Ar10 has a super light trigger and is prone to do that if if the rifle is held loosely. I've never had a problem with it during normal shooting, only when shooting of of a bench. Are you positive that it's not bump firing?

[6bg6ga]

My Armalite Ar10 has a super light trigger and is prone to do that if if the rifle is held loosely. I've never had a problem with it during normal shooting, only when shooting of of a bench. Are you positive that it's not bump firing?The trigger is defective.

[country gent]

I had one of the Major makers of Ar rifles "NM" trigger I installed in my wifes AR High power AR 15. It installed with a very nice crisp 4 lbs 12 ounce break and was a very nice trigger. fter 1000 rounds or so at a match it stated firing on the pull and the release. I looked at it, my local gun smith looked at it and an armorrer at the Nationals at Perry looked it over and couldnt see what it was doing or where the problem was. As long as the trigger was held back it didnt fire but release the trigger and bang. I put a jewel in it and no troubles since. with the rifle empty ( triple check this before going any farther) cock the rifle with the trigger held back and have someone jar the rifle on the buttplate forward to see if the hammer drops from the impact. A weak disconnector engagement can cause this.

[wonderwolf]

I had one of the Major makers of Ar rifles "NM" trigger I installed in my wifes AR High power AR 15. It installed with a very nice crisp 4 lbs 12 ounce break and was a very nice trigger. fter 1000 rounds or so at a match it stated firing on the pull and the release. I looked at it, my local gun smith looked at it and an armorrer at the Nationals at Perry looked it over and couldnt see what it was doing or where the problem was. As long as the trigger was held back it didnt fire but release the trigger and bang. I put a jewel in it and no troubles since. with the rifle empty ( triple check this before going any farther) cock the rifle with the trigger held back and have someone jar the rifle on the buttplate forward to see if the hammer drops from the impact. A weak disconnector engagement can cause this.

Odd, oversized hole on the disconector, hammer or trigger is what I'm thinking. Smiths up at perry are pretty good about that stuff, what mfg was it?

[country gent]

I checked the hole sizes my gunsmith did and the armorer at the AMU van did, Armorrer checked angles and engagements all looked to be good. We all were baffled and it was definitly a fluke. But the jewels had just came out for the ARs so it was a good excuse to buy one to try. ( then 3 more for the other AR match rifles LOL). I wanted to have Dave at armalight check it out but he wasnt there that year. Now we have several very good triggers for the AR platform, The Giesele stands out. These are pretty much fully adjustable and very good.

[6bg6ga]

Its not my worry as soon as I drop it in the mail. The manufacturer is going to send me out a new one.

[wonderwolf]

And now Armalite doesn't even set up there themselves now, they have some proxy company acting as a middle man. Not sure why probably for the savings. I always went to their smith when I went up there because I used their rifles but now its gotten to the point I just do the work myself. Armalite has slipped in the last few years it seems.

[Ithaca Gunner]

It can happen with any self loading arm. I shot .22 pistol with my company commander my last year in the Corps, nothing formal, just lunch break shooting. He used one of the high end High Standard pistols and for reasons unknown to me, it went full auto one day at the indoor range. As far as I know, it was a stock pistol, but could have had the trigger/sear slicked up a bit.

I would be very concerned about the rifle firing out of battery on a semi auto that goes full auto. Purpose made select, or full auto weapons are made to insure firing in battery, when a trigger mod makes one go full auto, time to put it away and find out why and make the needed correction to the arm.

[fivefang]

Country Gent, a lubricant additive "Muscle" from Pa. made my milled Ak. fire 3-4 rd. bursts, a friend mentioned that he had a similar situation with "Molly" on a Ar. sear, a scrubbing with Mineral-Spirits cured both malfunctions

[Iowa Fox]

Its not my worry as soon as I drop it in the mail. The manufacturer is going to send me out a new one.

Now we're talking sensible.

[Electric88]

My Armalite Ar10 has a super light trigger and is prone to do that if if the rifle is held loosely. I've never had a problem with it during normal shooting, only when shooting of of a bench.

My AR308 (not made by Armalite) also has exhibited this before. The first time it happened, I really did almost shart on myself. Set the gun down, walked away for a second and returned to evaluate.

[Geezer in NH]

I would appreciate it if I didn't get anymore private messages asking if I wanted to sell the trigger assembly. I do not wish to have a visit from the ATF nor do I wish to pay a fine or do time behind bars.
Probably them asking if you know what I mean.

[Geezer in NH]

It can happen with any self loading arm. I shot .22 pistol with my company commander my last year in the Corps, nothing formal, just lunch break shooting. He used one of the high end High Standard pistols and for reasons unknown to me, it went full auto one day at the indoor range. As far as I know, it was a stock pistol, but could have had the trigger/sear slicked up a bit.

.My HS international rapid fire 22short did the same and was sent back twice for it. On the third attempt the returned a new pistol. It happens and is an accident not intentional.

[John Boy]

Slamfires are most common in military type firearms that have a free-floating firing pin, as opposed to a spring-loaded one.

[wonderwolf]

Slamfires are most common in military type firearms that have a free-floating firing pin, as opposed to a spring-loaded one.

True but I don't think that is the issue we're dealing with here, unless you mean something slamming in the system is causing the hammer to fall whilst trigger is depressed.

[woodbutcher]

:D Yep,that can be a real adventure.Had it happen with a NM M14(REAL M14.NOT the civilian version) one day.Whole mag went.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Ithaca Gunner]

My HS international rapid fire 22short did the same and was sent back twice for it. On the third attempt the returned a new pistol. It happens and is an accident not intentional.

It was purely accidental. He recovered from the shock of firing a burst from his High Standard, looked at me and said something like " Well, it's time to put this away..."

[KnotRight]

I just built an AR-9 and had the gun double tap then jam. I did polish all the trigger parts with Mother's polish and a cloth wheel. Compared the disconnect with a new one and everything was the same angle. With the gun apart, you could pull the trigger and hold it and it would lock up very tight and when releasing the trigger it would lock back in the ready mode. I was having problems with the magazine going into the lower. Come to find out that the bolt was for a Colt 9 mm and and not a Glock.

Put a new trigger group in (ALG Defense) without touching it. When the new bolt comes in I will try it again. If it does not double tap, I am going to put the first trigger group back in to prove to myself that the polishing did not cause the double tap.

I will wake you up pulling the trigger one time and it keep firing.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I just built an AR-9 and had the gun double tap then jam. I did polish all the trigger parts with Mother's polish and a cloth wheel. Compared the disconnect with a new one and everything was the same angle. With the gun apart, you could pull the trigger and hold it and it would lock up very tight and when releasing the trigger it would lock back in the ready mode. I was having problems with the magazine going into the lower. Come to find out that the bolt was for a Colt 9 mm and and not a Glock.

Put a new trigger group in (ALG Defense) without touching it. When the new bolt comes in I will try it again. If it does not double tap, I am going to put the first trigger group back in to prove to myself that the polishing did not cause the double tap.

I will wake you up pulling the trigger one time and it keep firing.
I had a similar problem, you may also want to try a spacer in the buffer tube. I used the spike's spacer and polished my mags (I was also getting OOB occasionally from around coming out crooked) and now it runs like a top.

[6bg6ga]

Probably them asking if you know what I mean.Actually I have received offers to purchase this trigger ssembly.

[6bg6ga]

Its not a question of using a spacer in the buffer tube or ANYTHING like that. The problem stemed from the material in the trigger not being tough enough and causing the problem. As I mentioned I have other aftermarket complete drop in trigger assemblies that work without a hitch. It was a simple problem of the parts in the trgger assembly not being heat treated enough so they would hold their angles and thus the angle was lost and the parts didn't catch. No, I wouldn't polish ANY parts in a trigger assembly with Mothers or any other compound. Stones and fixtures are needed for precise angles and to maintain the same. At any rate the problem will be solved as soon as the NEW trigger arrives. I really liked the trigger assembly as it was tight, no play, and a nice clean crisp break. Our AR-15's are ment for target shooting so we neither need or want the original 8Lb+ sloppy trigger pulls from the common trigger group parts.

[bouncer50]

Actually I have received offers to purchase this trigger ssembly. I have fired full auto M-14 M-16 in full auto after the third shot you are shooting high The only full auto that you can control is the Thomspon 45 acp you can keep it on the target. In my years of shooting i seen a 45 Colt auto go full auto and the guy lose a finger. I also seen a M1 grand go full auto. Any semi-auto can go full auto for different reasons.

[dale2242]

The triggers I mentioned were replaced with factory triggers like the ones that originally came in the AR, not aftermarket....dale

[M-Tecs]

Slamfires are caused be high primers or sensitive primers in firearms with floating firing pin. I have repaired firearms that have slamfired from high primers. Since the bolt is generally not fully closed there is generally damage to the case and or firearm. I have never seen or experienced a slamfire from a floating firing pin. Read all the warnings but in 25 years of Highpower competition never heard of one first hand. On M-14's for slow fire I do load to the magazine to keep bolt velocity down.

Bump fire happens when the trigger disconnects and the trigger functions properly but the trigger bumps into the shooter finger firing the firearm again. This is not a malfunction. It can be corrected by changing shooting technique or increasing trigger pull weight and or sear geometry.

The hammer following down is a malfunction since the disconnect does not reset and allows the full auto fire. Lots of causes but in addition to safety issues if not corrected you have legal issues as well.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Its not a question of using a spacer in the buffer tube or ANYTHING like that. The problem stemed from the material in the trigger not being tough enough and causing the problem. As I mentioned I have other aftermarket complete drop in trigger assemblies that work without a hitch. It was a simple problem of the parts in the trgger assembly not being heat treated enough so they would hold their angles and thus the angle was lost and the parts didn't catch. No, I wouldn't polish ANY parts in a trigger assembly with Mothers or any other compound. Stones and fixtures are needed for precise angles and to maintain the same. At any rate the problem will be solved as soon as the NEW trigger arrives. I really liked the trigger assembly as it was tight, no play, and a nice clean crisp break. Our AR-15's are ment for target shooting so we neither need or want the original 8Lb+ sloppy trigger pulls from the common trigger group parts.
I was suggesting a different cure to KnotRight. AR9s are a different monkey, since the bolt doesn't need to travel as far to cycle.

I've seen guns go FA from bad trigger packs. Timney had a handful of FA Tavor triggers when they first shipped, dunno what cause it. May I ask which manufacturer you were using? I prefer CMC and have been itching to try to Geissele. I hear good things about the RRA NM trigger as well, but haven't tried it. I need to find something to put in my AR10.

[6bg6ga]

All guns should be looked at on a case by case instead of one thing fixing a problem on a particular gun. No two guns are the same. What works on one may not work on a different gun. The trigger manufacturer I used is listed in a response here in this thread. I had originally removed the manufacturer from my first post as I didn't think it fair to have people boycot a particular manufacturer since that manufacturers rep agreed to replace the trigger assembly with the newest version they make. I do not want to get into a "this" manufacturers trigger is better than "that" trigger manufacturers type of thing. All trigger have certain +'s that would appeal to a particular person and others may or may not like that particular trigger assembly. Some here think the "ONLY" trigger for any AR-15 or the likes is the original type 8-10lb unit. I don't personally believe this. I like a nice trigger with a crisp response that is without creep and one that is single stage.

[country gent]

I believe you stated the parts were on the soft side and this was the cause. Correct heat treat deends on many things steel alloy, Variations in alloy can affect actual finished hardness greatly. Oven temps and controls, variations in tem,perture and or soak also affect hardness. Quench, large batches may cause quench fluids to change temps as the batch enters. Tempering, drawing parts back to desired hardness all the above affect this also. We got a Bar of 6" square O-6 in at work that every part made and hardened cracked due to a variation in its make up. Newer overs with hermetically controled atmospheres help alot here But arnt the com[plete cure. There alot that can affect a fitted triggers function, a small radious on the edges the wrong angle uneven mating surfaces holes off spec sticky surfaces.

[6bg6ga]

I just repeated what the manufacturers rep told me. At this point in time all I want is a new unit to replace the faulty one I sent in so I can make the wife happy so she can shoot her 300 black out again. Being I spent 20 years as a machinist I understand all about hardness and other variables.

[woodbutcher]

:lol: Yep folks.That Old Man Murphy will show up at the darnd`est times and places.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[shoot-n-lead]

I have fired full auto M-14 M-16 in full auto after the third shot you are shooting high The only full auto that you can control is the Thomspon 45 acp you can keep it on the target. In my years of shooting i seen a 45 Colt auto go full auto and the guy lose a finger. I also seen a M1 grand go full auto. Any semi-auto can go full auto for different reasons.

MP5 would be a lot easier for me to keep on target...the Thompson wants to rise.

[dogmower]

I have fired full auto M-14 M-16 in full auto after the third shot you are shooting high The only full auto that you can control is the Thomspon 45 acp
obviously you've never fired a full auto mac 11 or 10, mp5, bm-59, hk g3 or 93, or an m2 carbine.

[historicfirearms]

I just built an AR-9 and had the gun double tap then jam. I did polish all the trigger parts with Mother's polish and a cloth wheel. Compared the disconnect with a new one and everything was the same angle. With the gun apart, you could pull the trigger and hold it and it would lock up very tight and when releasing the trigger it would lock back in the ready mode. I was having problems with the magazine going into the lower. Come to find out that the bolt was for a Colt 9 mm and and not a Glock.

Put a new trigger group in (ALG Defense) without touching it. When the new bolt comes in I will try it again. If it does not double tap, I am going to put the first trigger group back in to prove to myself that the polishing did not cause the double tap.

I will wake you up pulling the trigger one time and it keep firing.

How did you keep the surfaces square with a cloth wheel? I have a hard enough time with a hard India stone. Not trying to be obtuse just curious.

[6bg6ga]

Update... received the new replacement drop in trigger assembly and put it back into the black out. The wife is again happy.

[Geezer in NH]

Sorry for going off topic


obviously you've never fired a full auto mac 11 or 10, mp5, bm-59, hk g3 or 93, or an m2 carbine.
The M2 Winchester I had was not controllable after 4-5 rounds it could not be held down even with the muzzle brake.:popcorn: I was not a fan of the platform, sorry [smilie=6:

My mac 10-9 was very controllable, The Mac 11 380 was also with the can installed it could be held down for a two shot burst with the second burst about 3-4 rounds max [very fast auto]

The DLO Sten gun was fantastic very controllable and accurate. Some in Gun digest said you could not hit a cardboard box at 100 yards with it in FA, he was wrong and bet he wouldnot hide behind one.

My only Truly fun FA was a 1919A4 308/8mm/ 30-06. On it's tripod it was a true blast!!! I do miss it and $.03 Turk 8mm. shot more than a few pallets of it.

[6bg6ga]

Trigger is still working fine.