Measuring crimp is difficult

[ghh3rd]

I am using my calipers to measure the crimp on my .45 ACP loads, but it's a tenuous process. It takes time to get the caliper to the very edge of the crimp, especially with my eyes, and then I'm wiggling it around until it slips off the edge and taking the last reading before it slips.
I repeat that several times until I see the same number a few times and figure that is the measurement.

Is there a better way to do this more accurately and easily?

Thanks,

Randy

[Hickory]

Sort cases by length, making sure they are trimed to length.
Adjust seating die to take out the bell in the mouth of the case.
All successive rounds should be the same, no need to check with caliper after set up.

[TXGunNut]

For me the ideal taper crimp and seating depth for the 45ACP is a combo of two very exact measurements ;-) : feel and "plunk". I think a search here will lead to the "plunk test" threads with pics but short version is to remove the barrel and drop the loaded round into the chamber. When the base of the case is even with the rear shroud of the case seating depth is correct. Only the slightest bit of taper crimp is required; I feel just a bit of resistance when applying the crimp and can usually see a slight crimp for the last .020" or so of the case mouth. All that's required is enough to keep the boolit from going deeper into the case as it rides the feed ramp.

[Scharfschuetze]

Like TxGuNnut, I'd suggest getting a taper crimp. Unlike a roll crimp, I don't notice much in the way of difference in performance using it with mixed cases that I haven't sorted by length.

As others have posted above, sort by length (and headstamp if possible) and your crimp will be uniform for all cases of a given length.

[John Boy]

Measuring the crimp on a case really is easy:
* Kinetic bullet puller
* 3 whacks to dislodge a bullet = loose crimp
* 9-10 whacks to dislodge a bullet = tight crimp
* 4 - 8 whacks = semi loose to semi hard

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I load for a number of guns in different calibers with different actions. My method has been refined to using a Lee Factory Crimp die for each caliber. Read the directions, set the die for as much crimp as you think you need. Before that my method was to crimp a bit and hold one up to the light, see if it looked like it would do the job. If it did, I'd go with that on subsequent rounds, and if I though it needed more I'd screw the die in a bit more and try it again. Far from an exact science, but like they've said above, once you're there and your die is set, all that follow will be satisfactory. Further, set your lock ring and then if you take the seater/crimper out it will be correct the next time you use it for the same case and bullet. But you really should try the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

[Mk42gunner]

I had reloaded thousands of .45ACP before I ever read about measuring the crimp. The way I set my taper crimp dies is to use a factory 230 grain ball round and just screw the crimp die down until it bears firmly on the factory crimp.

I'll do a plunk test on a few rounds if it is the first time I have loaded that projectile.

.45ACP has to be one of the easiest rounds to load well functioning ammo for.

Robert

[runfiverun]

this may sound a bit odd but I have never measured the crimp diameter on a 45 acp case.
I set up the crimp die by feel.
then run a couple of dummies through the gun 3-4 times and measure the oal.
I expect it to get a bit shorter on the 4 th time.
if it gets shorter before that I need more tension on the case.
the taper crimp is just the case being pressed to the side of the boolit, anything much more is squeezing the boolit down in diameter.

[mdi]

Well, after a few (several) thousand 45 ACP rounds loaded and fired, I know neither the case length nor the diameter of the case at the crimp of any of my brass. How could I possibly get shootable ammo with these crude methods, you ask? For one, I do not crimp semi-auto rounds, I merely use a taper crimp die to remove any flare (de-flaring die) in the case mouth. My gauge is the barrel of the firearm I'm reloading the ammo for and that's called "The Plunk Test". My ammo feeds quite well through my RIA 1911 and my Ruger P90...

[Garyshome]

A micrometer is better then calipers. In my manual there is a number [maximum] for the crimp. I rely more on a dillon handgun case gage.

[mdi]

A micrometer is better then calipers. In my manual there is a number [maximum] for the crimp. I rely more on a dillon handgun case gage.
Blade micrometers (which would be the type used for measuring the crimp) are not as readily available as plain mics, and quite a bit more expensive...

[gray wolf]

I would never---ever--say do not seek knowledge,
But the crimp on a 45 A C P case is much to do about nothing.

Remove the case flare--do a plunk test, if it drops in and out of the barrel -- go and shoot them.
Mine work out to be about .471/.472

30 to 50,000 rounds over a long time and I never trim a 45 case.
The accuracy seems OK.

[Traffer]

Interesting question. I have another similar problem to deal with. In reloading 22lr, it has been my good fortune to read the chapter on making 22lr match ammo in the book "Ammunition Making" by George Frost. In it he used the amount of pull in lbs to dislodge the slug from the case to measure crimp. "Bullet pull is a minimum 40lbs, 45lbs in the median and acceptable to 55lbs." I have not yet made a puller capable of measuring the "pull" in lbs but that is one of my projects going forward. I guess it is more crucial in 22 rim fire.

[M-Tecs]

Blade mics are designed for measuring grooves and have zero benefit for measuring crimps over standard mics. Standard mics or calipers both work fine.

I set my crimp dies to .468"

Use your caliper as a snap gage. Set it at whatever size you want and try it on a loaded round. If the case hangs up on the mouth you need to crimp more. If the case goes into the caliper jaws much past the case mouth you need to back the die off.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/reviews/squeeze-play-how-to-properly-crimp-ammunition/

[alamogunr]

Blade micrometers (which would be the type used for measuring the crimp) are not as readily available as plain mics, and quite a bit more expensive...

If you're patient you can occasionally find them on ebay. That is where I got mine. Don't remember what I paid but it couldn't have been terribly expensive for me to make a winning bid.

[alamogunr]

Blade micrometers (which would be the type used for measuring the crimp) are not as readily available as plain mics, and quite a bit more expensive...

If you're patient you can occasionally find them on ebay. That is where I got mine. Don't remember what I paid but it couldn't have been terribly expensive for me to make a winning bid.

After reading M-Tecs post, I need to clarify. I don't measure crimps but he is right, you don't need blade mics to measure a taper crimp and I don't see the point in measuring if you are reloading for a revolver. I've got some tight chambered revolvers that require that I don't try to seat too large a boolit.

The article M-Tecs linked raised an interesting thought. The author taper crimps revolver rounds. I've never done that but might try it next time.

[randyrat]

I just adjusted my Taper crimp to .470, it was .465..I know it is a pain to measure and I don't know of any easy ways of measuring..
I think if your loading to squeeze every last bit of accuracy it may be worth a little... I had a bug in my brain this weekend and I swear it gave me a bit of accuracy, it made me feel better if nothing else. I also use a separate taper crimp die, you don't need a roll crimp for a 45 ACP. If your using a roll crimp, use just enough to smooth out the "bell" and plunk test it with the barrel out of the gun OR get a plunk tester.
As stated above, 2-3 taps of the bullet puller is Perfect way to measure

Oh one more thing...If you use a taper crimp die, there is no worry about varying brands and case lengths, at least in an auto. You may run into varying crimps with a roll crimp due to slightly different lengths of different brands of brass.

[Bayou52]

I also set my Lee Factory Crimp Die to apply a crimp of .470" to the 45 ACPs. I do use the calipers to check the crimp. It takes a little practice, but after a while, it becomes pretty easy to measure the crimp with the calipers..

I never trim 45 ACP cases, so the case lengths will naturally vary a bit from one to the other. I also do not sort for head stamps. For these reasons, the crimps generally vary a couple thousanths, between .470" to .472". Thereafter, each cartridge is dropped in a Dillon case gauge as a final check.

Bayou52

[randyrat]

Case gauge, yeah that's what it is called...I called it a Plunk Tester he he he...I have 45 ACP cases, that I still use, the head stamp is worn smooth. They still shoot great!

[Bayou52]

Case gauge, yeah that's what it is called...I called it a Plunk Tester he he he...I have 45 ACP cases, that I still use, the head stamp is worn smooth. They still shoot great!

The "Plunk Tester" sounds like a great name for these case gauges. You should copywrite the name and then sell it........:)

[odfairfaxsub]

this may sound a bit odd but I have never measured the crimp diameter on a 45 acp case.
I set up the crimp die by feel.
then run a couple of dummies through the gun 3-4 times and measure the oal.
I expect it to get a bit shorter on the 4 th time.
if it gets shorter before that I need more tension on the case.
the taper crimp is just the case being pressed to the side of the boolit, anything much more is squeezing the boolit down in diameter.

exactly

[mdi]

Jes wonderin' How do you measure a taper, with one end .010" lower than the rest of the body with a flat faced rod 1/4" in diameter. Life long machinist/mechanic here and I say you need blade mics for a good. reliable, consistent measurement. But for me it's a non-issue, I don't ever remember measuring a "crimp" on any semi-auto ammo I reload...

[Pine Baron]

+3 (or is it 4) on the "plunk tester" (case gauge) especially if your loading for more than one weapon.

[Char-Gar]

Why does one want to measure the crimp on a loaded 45 ACP round? I never have in 1/4 million 45 ACP round load.

1) Buy a taper crimp die
2) Seat bullets to desired depth
3) Run a USGI or factory loaded 45 ACP round, to the top of your press ram stroke.
4) Screw taper crimp die down on the #3 round as hard as you can by hand with no tools and set the die ring.
5) Now run all of your seated rounds into the taper crimp die.
6) Go shooting.

[randyrat]

Char, you cheater, that is too easy, good tip!

I also use dummy rounds, makes setting up or checking quicker

[W.R.Buchanan]

Only posts #17&18 had the correct dimension for the Crimp on the .45 ACP. .470 is the right number. As for measuring it using calipers, having a small amount of the blade hanging off the edge of the case mouth is where you need to be to get an accurate measurement.

I realize that many don't ever check this, but that doesn't mean it's right. Getting the crimp right prevents the bullet from being shoved back into the case when it hits the feed ramp on auto pistols, and whereas it doesn't usually matter on a .45 it damn sure matters on cartridges like .40 S&W and 10MM which are high pressure cartridges and where a pressure spike caused by a bullet pushed back into the case could result in a gun blow up.

I might add that every single factory round loaded is crimped, so there must be some good reason for doing it as anyone making millions of rounds of ammo would certainly eliminate one step in the process if it wasn't needed.

Just because something is a little harder to do doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. You just need to learn how to do it, and work it into your busy schedule .

I get really sick of people whining about getting old and how their old eyes don't work any more and blah blah. My gawd,,,Buy some glasses, or get an Opti-Visor! Get off your **** and learn to do something new instead of concocting reasons why you can't do anything.

I am 66 and whereas that is not as old as some, I still am feeling the effects of age. My Ship don't work as good as it used to, My hair is falling out, and I wear glasses full time. I am currently battling a case of Plantar Fasciitis, and I had to have my hemorrhoids removed last year,,, but I still shoot with iron sights, and get up every morning and try to accomplish something meaningful everyday. Hell I made 600 Boolits yesterday!

I ALWAYS try to do things to the best of my abilities, and I don't really like settling for second rate anything. A friend once told me that "If your works sucks,,, You suck!" and nothing could be more true.

I have another friend I shoot with twice a month. He is 94 and only shoots vintage military and civilian Black Powder Weapons with iron sights during our Long and Short Range Silhouette Matches. I cringe when I see him shoot is Win M86 in .45-70 with 450 gr boolits! He also makes really nice looking ammo which he painstakingly loads using his own cast boolits with paper patches. He beats me often! But he sits in a chair for the chickens and we let him,,,, because he's 94 years old !!!!!

You need to measure your crimps on rimless pistol rounds during setup, and once in a while during the run to insure things don't change. It is the correct way to do it. I just loaded 500 .45 ACP's a week ago, and it was the first time I had used my 550B to do it so my dies all needed to be re-setup as the guy who owned them before me didn't have the seating depth right or the crimp die right. So they both had to be changed and I had to use my calipers to measure the crimp until it was right. I wore my glasses and my Opti-Visor so I could see what I was doing.....

It's just part of reloading ammo, get used to it.

Randy

[OS OK]

^..."Bravo! Well put...You get pretty much what you put into it, no more...often less."

[gwpercle]

Truth is I "measure"very little....found I did quite well without measuring everything.
If you like measuring .... Go for it.

[M-Tecs]

The "correct" dimension for the crimp on the .45 ACP is open for discussion. Lead verse jacketed and case wall thickness all come into play as does accuracy and reliability goals.

Correct for what works and what is the most accurate may not be the same. Some actual test data here:

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5662-crimp-on-200-lswc?highlight=crimp

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t918-45-acp-crimp?highlight=crimp

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t307-crimp-tight-loose?highlight=crimp

[fredj338]

For years I never even measured the crimp. Just enough to remove the bell & fit a case gage. You are over thinking it.

[alamogunr]

I have another friend I shoot with twice a month. He is 94 and only shoots vintage military and civilian Black Powder Weapons with iron sights during our Long and Short Range Silhouette Matches. I cringe when I see him shoot is Win M86 in .45-70 with 450 gr boolits! He also makes really nice looking ammo which he painstakingly loads using his own cast boolits with paper patches. He beats me often! But he sits in a chair for the chickens and we let him,,,, because he's 94 years old !!!!!

You need to measure your crimps on rimless pistol rounds during setup, and once in a while during the run to insure things don't change. It is the correct way to do it. I just loaded 500 .45 ACP's a week ago, and it was the first time I had used my 550B to do it so my dies all needed to be re-setup as the guy who owned them before me didn't have the seating depth right or the crimp die right. So they both had to be changed and I had to use my calipers to measure the crimp until it was right. I wore my glasses and my Opti-Visor so I could see what I was doing.....

It's just part of reloading ammo, get used to it.

Randy

Randy: I'm 74 and have been casting and reloading much less time than many here so threads such as this help me to increase my knowledge. I didn't start getting serious about both until our sons finished their educations. Since they both got doctorates, it took a little longer.

Your mention of your friend at 94 gives me some incentive to take care of myself so that I might still be shooting,loading and casting for a few more years.

The next time I load .45ACP, I'm going to check the crimp. Like yours, my RL550 was used when I acquired it. It has been a learning experience in itself and I'm still learning.

[M-Tecs]

For years I never even measured the crimp. Just enough to remove the bell & fit a case gage. You are over thinking it.

It depends on what your goals are. For my cowboy action loads I only need them to be safe, function and go bang. Accuracy is not an issue. For my 50 yard competition Bullseye loads crimp is a very real issue. Ten shot 1 1/2" groups out of a match 1911 require increased levels of "thinking". Same for my 30/30 lever gun hunting loads verse my 1,000 competition loads.

[mdi]

When I share I'm 90% of the time just saying what I do. I don't measure. I learn to reload 45 ACP before I went on line; pre-web, and there were not a lot of reloaders that shared their case measurements, at the range or gun shop. Yep, factory ammo is prolly crimped (and their ammo is loaded to travel millions of miles and safely function in any gun chambered for the cartridge. That doesn't make crimping my ammo a "must"), but in the 2, 45 ACP pistols I have I have, never has a bullet slip deeper into the case when feeding (that's what neck tension is for). To add to the flame, I don't crimp at all on my semi-auto ammo, I just use a taper crimp die to de-flare the case mouth and check all ammo with the "plunk test". So far with the tens of thousands of 45 ACP and 9mm rounds I've reloaded ,no problems. There ain't no one person that can tell you if your reloading methods are "correct" as long as your ammo functions and is safe., nope the "Reloading Police" ain't gonna kick down your door and confiscate your ammo 'cause you done it "wrong"!...

[country gent]

I measure crimpo by eye and or feel myself. Some set a press up to use a tourque wrench as a handle and crimp to XXX lbs on the wrench. If you really want to measure crimps a Gage could be made. Basically a chamber type gage with bullet dia + .005 on the dia and a chamber dia +.005 behind this with a tapered shoulder. Make this 1 1/2" long. and 1" in dia. Bore chamber hole .125 short of case length and bullet clearence thru. with the tapered shoulder drop case into the "gage" and measure length. This will be a comparative measurement to set the crimp die to. Longer will be less crimp shorter more crimp. The tapered shoulder will engage the crimp and the clearence holes will not affect it.

[M-Tecs]

176075

I didn't make this one but I have made a dozen or so of these for Bullseye shooters. Made them with .001" and .002" steps. I have one with .001" steps in a drawer somewhere but just use my caliper as a snap gage.

[randyrat]

"Plunk Test" I like it!

Side note:
Every time I think about complaining, someone else comes up with something worse or someone gets chewed out in front of me for winning, I think God does it on purpose.

[alamogunr]

176075

I didn't make this one but I have made a dozen or so of these for Bullseye shooters. Made them with .001" and .002" steps. I have one with .001" steps in a drawer somewhere but just use my caliper as a snap gage.

Several years ago, I bought a set of cartridge gauges from Midway. This was when they still put out the monthly flyer. There are 6 gauges for common handgun cartridges. They have only failed me once. That was when a .45 Colt cartridge wouldn't fit a tight custom cylinder.

[fredj338]

It depends on what your goals are. For my cowboy action loads I only need them to be safe, function and go bang. Accuracy is not an issue. For my 50 yard competition Bullseye loads crimp is a very real issue. Ten shot 1 1/2" groups out of a match 1911 require increased levels of "thinking". Same for my 30/30 lever gun hunting loads verse my 1,000 competition loads.
Have you actually run 50y accuracy tests with diff loads crimped to diff dia?? It is really hard to be consistent with a measurement if using mixed brass. Why I never bothered. Then again, I do not shoot 50y BE. I just need 8" steel plate accuracy at that distance.

[jrmartin1964]

Why does one want to measure the crimp on a loaded 45 ACP round? I never have in 1/4 million 45 ACP round load.

1) Buy a taper crimp die
2) Seat bullets to desired depth
3) Run a USGI or factory loaded 45 ACP round, to the top of your press ram stroke.
4) Screw taper crimp die down on the #3 round as hard as you can by hand with no tools and set the die ring.
5) Now run all of your seated rounds into the taper crimp die.
6) Go shooting.

^ What he said.

[M-Tecs]

Have you actually run 50y accuracy tests with diff loads crimped to diff dia?? It is really hard to be consistent with a measurement if using mixed brass. Why I never bothered. Then again, I do not shoot 50y BE. I just need 8" steel plate accuracy at that distance.

Yes, in the mid-90's I was actively building Bullseye 1911's and pursuing a double Distinguished I did extensive testing. Crimp does effect accuracy but there is no hard and fast rule as to what is "best". Some chambers like heavy crimps and some like light crimps. I only tested mixed brass with mixed crimps once. That was in a 1911 that would hold 1 1/2" for 10 shot groups at 50 yards. With mixed brass/crimps the best group was around 2 7/8" with the worst just over 5".

[M-Tecs]

Several years ago, I bought a set of cartridge gauges from Midway. This was when they still put out the monthly flyer. There are 6 gauges for common handgun cartridges. They have only failed me once. That was when a .45 Colt cartridge wouldn't fit a tight custom cylinder.

The picture is not a chamber gauge. It is a crimp gauge. The ones that I made mostly had .002" steps. If the case mouth goes below flush you try the next smaller one until the case mouth "headspaced" on the top of the gauge.

[alamogunr]

Thanks! I was wondering about the steps. I like your method of using a caliper(if I get that far). Even that wouldn't work until I determine what I need and what is too little or too much. I assume that would vary with the firearm.

[M-Tecs]

The tried and true crimp size of .468" to 470" works well in almost everything. Until you have the equipment and ability to shoot sub 2 1/2" ten shot groups at 50 yards testing really isn't required and than only if the gun isn't preforming to your level of expectations.

[alamogunr]

Thanks again! I'm too old to have time left to get to that level of skill.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The operative point of my post was to encourage people to at least try to do the best they can,,,, and especially when loading ammo, and to learn everything they can about it. That's kind of what this place is all about? :veryconfu

I went to my Dentist yesterday and he is a relative newbie to Reloading and is doing .45 ACP, .223 and .45-70. He had two cookie sheets of brass he was working on, and the brass was filthy dirty. He told me he had been cleaning it with a Q Tip and Case Lube? But didn't have time to use a tumbler? He had spent a bunch of time cleaning about 200 cases! I explained that it would take him two minutes to load the tumbler and another 5 to take the Clean Brass out when it was done. I kind of got a DUH look from him, then a light went on.

I told him about this site (for the 5th time) and after I give him a link he probably will come here to look.

Point is, he didn't know better.

Nobody I know of that does runs of 1000 at a time checks every round. And really on a properly functioning progressive loading machine you shouldn't have to. Loading on a machine like that is virtually identical to running a Turret Lathe and once set up, the standard method of QC is to check a part every so often to make sure your setup is not deteriorating or tools wearing, and the same holds true of loading ammo.

But starting with clean cases, and having a set up that is producing serviceable ammo and checking once in a while, is the key to loading safe ammo. Fortunately the .45 ACP is probably the most forgiving of all Auto Pistol Rounds to load, so having problems there really means you need to look closer. When you start loading .40 S&W or 10MM then things like the crimp do matter, because these rounds are running at 35,000 psi and above. A Bullet that gets pushed back into the case will result in a pressure spike and if that pressure spike is severe enough it will blow your gun up.

There have been plenty of instances where Glocks have blown up, but the reason typically get blamed on the "Evil Unsupported Chamber." IN reality the cause is usually a bad piece of brass or a pressure spike caused by bullet being pushed back. The people who experience this don't know anything about Case Neck Tension or Crimp Diameter,,, They are just pumping out reloads.

The problems always arise when "you don't know, what you don't know." That's where the "fool part" rears it's ugly head in the equation.

My philosophy is this,,, and most would do well to follow closely. I always try to do the best I can at anything I do. That usually involves learning everything I can about whatever subject I am pursuing. I can fully understand the Mentality of having been successful over a lifetime or large number of actions using a specific method. But that doesn't mean you really know what you are doing. It simply means you kind of know, and have been really lucky.

I have successfully fought and won fights where I was up against a proven method of doing a job, but the people who were doing it couldn't explain what they were doing. They could show you what they were doing, but they couldn't explain it to someone else. In other words all they were doing is mimicking someone who thought they knew what they were doing as well.

You can't teach this! And the hardest part was convincing the bosses, who were all very Accomplished Toolmakers, Degreed Engineers, and drinking buddies, that their Star Engineer was FOS ! I figured this out on my own because this guy would always try to insert some ridiculous word in a sentence so that you couldn't understand exactly what he was saying.

He decided to retire about half way thru the project because he knew that I knew that he didn't know what he was talking about. I had asked too many questions that he couldn't answer and he knew I knew.

He had just figured out a way to do the process and could tinker with it until it ran, and thus everyone looked to him to keep it running.

After he left I was left with a mess and had to go outside to learn everything there was to know about Centerless Grinding,,, The sum total of written knowledge of which,,, was contained in a 22 page 5x8 Pamphlet written by the Cincinnati Machine Tool Company!

I was able, after learning the basics of how these machines worked, to develop a procedure whereby a moron could set up and run these machines and produce perfect results. This was completed in 1991 and is still being used successfully by this company today.

We had the head Of Downey Grinding (the company we had bought the machines from) come to our plant so that I could ask him questions about the process in an effort to find out if I had missed anything important as I had nothing but that little book as a reference. His reply to me was "I have never seen anyone do what you are doing and can I have a copy of your instructions for my shop." He had 40 years experience in running Centerless Grinders and ran a shop with 50 machines running everything from Dowel Pins to Bowling Balls. And the Bowling Ball Setup was shown in the Cincinnati Booklet!

My point here is not to tell you how great I am. It is to make known the point that,,, " if you can't explain something to someone in normal language,,, You don't understand how to do it in the first place." And just because you can do it yourself doesn't mean you really understand what you are doing. It only means you are lucky.

Nothing wrong with being lucky,,, I am a firm believer in,,, "It's better to be lucky than good."

However,,, I would prefer to be Lucky AND Good,,,, as it improves your chances of success immensely.:mrgreen:

Randy

[Char-Gar]

"
My philosophy is this,,, and most would do well to follow closely. I always try to do the best I can at anything I do. That usually involves learning everything I can about whatever subject I am pursuing. I can fully understand the Mentality of having been successful over a lifetime or large number of actions using a specific method. But that doesn't mean you really know what you are doing. It simply means you kind of know, and have been really lucky."

I agree that knowing what you are doing involves learning all you can. I can find no reason to challenge that. That said, here is my concern about the way many threads on this board run.

Reloading tool manufacturers need to come up with something new to sell as, most reloading tools will last a lifetime or two. They are constantly putting our new gadgets and gizmos and marketing them as "must have" items. They have their team of experts and writers who will chime in that this is a needful things.

Knowing what you are doing, also means being able to sort out the sales pitch from reality. The flood of new gizmos confuses many people with the result that the process is made far more difficult that it really it.

There is no need to keep on doing it the way you have done it and reject all new knowledge that comes along. There is also no need to be a sucker and bite on every new bright shinny thing, the marketers troll in front of you.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Charles: I completely agree with your point, but would submit that being able to cut thru the Sales BS is more easily accomplished when you actually understand what you know about the subject.

I personally and not a big fan of the new shiny stuff either. Everything needed to load any pistol round correctly has been around since 1960.

Every once in a while someone comes out with something new that enhances your reloading experience and I will at least look and sometimes might even bite.

I personally think the best thing that has come along in the last while is this.

Randy