Leading Question in rifle muzzle

[MKN]

Hi All,
I fired my first cast boolits !!! Great day and another level of reloading, now I can pick up brass and lead from the range !

230gr for 300 BLK, lee mold tapered base NO gas check. These were cast from range scarp ( seems mostly jacketed , a few cast, I don't believe many .22 or muzzle loader balls)
Water dropped, shot after 3 full days. Tumble lubed with 45 45 10.

All loaded with H4198, 2.24 oal moderate crimp
Gun AR with 16 " SS barrel

5 rounds each of the following and chronograph :

9gr (800fps),
10 gr (900 fps),
11 gr(1000 fps),
12gr(1150 fps)
13 gr(started at 1266 and each round progressively faster to final 1386 fps - pressure increase from leading ?)

I checked the barrel after each group, leading appeared after the 13 gr. in the muzzle area 3" back, and some on the crown.

My reading / research tells me two seemingly contradictions:
#1 - muzzle leading - inadequate lube
#2 - range scrap - bullet too fast for softer lead composition, I have no idea of the pressure

Lube issue - Is it possible to add a second coat of 45 45 10 ? or do you just have to do a thick coat first time, which seems it would be uneven.

soft boolit - according to the charts three days should have given the lions share of age hardening for this unknown composition, It seems that folks generally think of mixed range scrap as "softer" I have no idea of the pressure generated as this powder does not seem to have a chart in this application that I have seen.

I am thinking this powder is not fast, so pressure should have been mild, this range scrap boolits " clink together" so there is some level of hardness. So I should go heavy on the lube and try again with 13gr and up ? Heavy lube seems wrong though,

Thoughts? and sorry for the long post, I seem to have read mostly hand gun information, not as much that I have seen on rifles.

Also cast up my first 9mm yesterday !!! about 600 of the lee 124 gr truncated cone, with the same range scrap, plan on 1000 fps. with silhouette or tight group, and tumble lube 45 45 10 anyone see a problem with this plan? 4" barrel, S+W M+P

Matt

[Lead Fred]

Speed does not become a factor until over 1700fps.
Sloppy fit is a factor always.
Ive gone as high as 2500fps in some rifles, and never leaded. Even did a few at 2700fps.
My blackouts go about 950-1000fps, they are gas checked & tight fit. They are also tumble lubed, 165gr FNGC.
They cast out at .310, I size them to .309.
My tumble tubing consists of grabbing the tip & dunking it in the X-Lox, onto waxed paper, then let dry.

[runfiverun]

gas cutting and design failure.

at 3 days the water dropped alloy isn't even close to it's final BHN.
it might have a bunch of it but not all of it and the BHN will certainly vary from boolit to boolit within the batch.

anyway back to the load details.
your 1gr to 100fps jump is pretty good and in a tolerable range, it's when they 150 fps jump occurs your starting to rapidly increase pressure.
[shrug]
personally I'd just drop back to 9.5grs and call it my load [if accuracy is acceptable].
if I wanted faster then I'd change boolit designs.

[MKN]

Thanks Guy's,
I am happy with the speed at 1050 fps, so in that sense I am good and don't need gas checks
Accuracy needs to tighten up, but I will let some age longer, I did not know that the bhn may fluctuate boolit to boolit.
Out of curiosity I think I will try more lube and see what happens after more aging. The cases showed no sign of pressure and it might be interesting learning for me.

I also fashioned a bottom pour smelting pot ! No more scooping for me, this is the only way to go. I used an old stainless steel pressure cooker and the long sharpened threaded rod as shown in another members post on building. Slick as ....... !
Matt

[runfiverun]

I use that same boolt but run it fairly slow.
I also water drop from the mold and use a version of the 45/45 lube.
I run mine through a 310 sizer and then add a touch more lube.
in my bolt rifles I run them on top of 3.5grs of 700-x with a SR primer.
if I swap to a pistol primer my groups enlarge by 100% and I lose some stability, so that's as low as I can reliably go.
they get to 50 and 100 yds pretty close to each other [close enough to head shoot ground squirrels to 50-60yds easily] and are quiet so I'm good with whatever velocity I'm getting.

[44man]

I have never had luck with a skin of TL and Alox the worst thing ever no matter the mix. It burns in the bore, leaves ash and ash will pick up lead. The skin of lube is gone off the boolit too soon. It gets behind the boolit to burn and does not coat the bore so you will have dry areas.
I shoot many TL boolits myself but I use Felix on them.
I am not going to PC since a good lube does all I want. PC might solve your problem and I might have done 1000 lube tests and the difference in groups is mind blowing.

[gwpercle]

Try a few loads with gas checks installed, this just might solve the accuracy and lead problems in one fell swoop.
I've never had accuracy get worse or leading increase with a check added , especially to a design made for a check....easy thing to try .
Gary

[MKN]

Thanks Guy's, I may have to try the Felix in the future, for now a did a thicker coat after sizing to .309 I do have some PC, but will try various TL types first. Can't as far as I know put a GC on these as the mold is a boat tail.

50 yrd head shots on squirrels, that is the accuracy I am looking for, I have a few things to try and tighten my group with on the H4198 powder,

cast another 100 of the 300 BLK and 400 of the 9 mm.
Matt

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Generally I don't use TL lube on rifle boolits, but I did some years back with a 6.5 loverin style. I do use it for some styles of pistol boolits.
ANYWAY,
I always use two coats of TL lube, when I use it. Before sizing and after sizing.

[gwpercle]

Thanks Guy's, I may have to try the Felix in the future, for now a did a thicker coat after sizing to .309 I do have some PC, but will try various TL types first. Can't as far as I know put a GC on these as the mold is a boat tail.

50 yrd head shots on squirrels, that is the accuracy I am looking for, I have a few things to try and tighten my group with on the H4198 powder,

cast another 100 of the 300 BLK and 400 of the 9 mm.
Matt
I thought that boolit was cut for a check.....never mind !

[Scharfschuetze]

Is it actually leading or is there a possibility that it is just antimony (Sb) wash. The silverish antimony wash can look like leading, but it is the result of an alloy with a high Sb percentage. I often get this with range scrap from military ranges due to the high Sb content of the lead cores in FMJs. It's no big deal and has never negatively impacted my accuracy or ease of cleaning the rifle.