Melted unknown metal amongst Wheel Weigths: Which may it be and effects on barrel.

[AJG]

Melted unknown metal amongst Wheel Weigths: Which may it be and effects on Barrel.

Description:
Today I melted (propane Camping burner) some wheel weights and found some half melted wheel weights which are for sure not lead but any other metal what had partly melted. I suggest that is Zinc since it has an melting Point of about just over 419 degrees Celsius. It must be Zinc since broze, aluminum, iron, etc have all an way higher melting Point.
If I hit the partly melted unknown metal with an knife it sounds like iron but is soft enough to be scratched but NOT nearly as easy as lead.
I do not think it is aluminum since I use an aluminum can to melt the wheel weights and the can should be melted then as well (but it is not).

This partly melted unknown metal Looks shiny were it is scratched and Looks like cast iron but silverish (it is if not painted matte silverish). it has as well an granulated appearance were it melted off. If it hits an brick/Adobe floor Surface it makes a Sound like aluminum or iron and not like lead.

Which metal may it be?
Which effects has it on the bullets?
Which effects has that material on the Barrel?

[jcren]

Sounds like zinc. Mostly doesn't blend well and effects casting quality. If it was just a few, don't worry about it, most lead contains traces of zinc anyway. A lot of it will make a lighter, harder bullet, but won't harm the much harder barrel, some guys cast zinc bullets for high velocity handgun or shotgun slugs.

[Traffer]

I can not think of another metal that it could be except zinc. There are other alloys that might fit that description but not in wheel weights. If you are not really really good at casting, you don't want zinc in your pot. Causes various problems. Casts don't fill well, makes the melt temp go up and is lighter. People have tried to get it out of lead once it gets in but it's not a very good proposition. There was a thread on using sulfur to get zinc out of lead. I tried that. Only succeeded in turning half of the project into unusable lead sulfide. There are several ways of identifying zinc wheel weights before they go into the smelting pot. The last resort is to get your pot set up so you can keep control of the temp and keep it just hot enough to melt the lead but not the zinc. (I can't remember the temp range off hand) Then you can pick the zinc off the top and not have it mix in with the lead.

[NavyVet1959]

If you use a pair of side cutter pliers, you'll notice a definite difference in the dent that they place in pure lead wheelweights vs clip-on wheelweights vs zinc vs steel given the same amount of "grunt factor" placed on the handles of the side cutters.

Steel does not give at all.
Pure lead wheelweights (stick-on type) is soft enough that you could cut through it pretty easily.
Clip-on wheelweights make a dent, but require a bit more force.
Zinc makes some small indentions.

Best thing is to try this out with the wheelweights before you put them in the pot and while you can still read the stamping on the side of them. Zinc should have "Zn" on them. Steel should have "Fe" on them. The lead ones *might* have "Pb", but I've seen a lot that have nothing on them.

[AJG]

Yes it should be zinc then. That explains particularly as well the difficulty I experiment with wrinkled bullets and not filling out well the cavities. As normal I get 3 good bullets (cavities filled out completely) and 3 did just fill half (out of a total of 6 cavities).
It may be very well there are lots of zinc wheel weights (maybe 1/3 of the total).
As I use a aluminum water kettle for casting I noticed the long pipe gets to cold in that manner the lead/zinc is getting hard while pouring/casting and it pluged once the whole pipe. That as well might explain the wrinkled bullets and partially filled out cavities.

I can live with wrinkled bullets since I shoot them as long they have sharp edges on the base and cone.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

If I read correctly you said your pot was aluminum? I would find a steel pot, if that aluminum pot burns through or softens and tilts, you could be in a world of hurt! What kind of can is it anyways, I have seen aluminum pots, but as far as cans I can only think of soda cans?(I know you aren't using a pop can) im sure you are being careful and everything, but I would hate to hear you got burned. good luck to you!

[AJG]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJJC6LSVuW1AffnIRJe6Ngqc_U0ncBw cpKTlsq46pjtJ9AiJoRzwThis kind of aluminum water kettle I use. I wanted to change as posters warned me already but had not yet a chance to get an iron or steel one.

[NavyVet1959]

I think that most of us smelt down our wheelweights / range scrap in a large pot, flux it multiple times, and then cast the alloy that we get into ingots that will fit in our casting pot. Our casting pots tend to smaller (i.e. in the 10-20 lb range).

With that shape of kettle, I suspect that you could run into trouble even if you only had lead in the kettle due to the long neck that is going to allow the molten lead to cool quite a bit.

[AJG]

NavyVet1959,

The water kettle is still of aluminum. This month I will Change it to an "safer" steel or cast iron one.
Exactly that is one of the cause of my wrinkled bullets. The neck is so Long the lead partially cools down. On one opportunity I had to put direct fire on the kettle neck in order to liquify the lead/zinc (whatever it was).

I put a whole kettle full of wheel weigths and melt it completely whatever is melting. From time to time the molten lead (whatever has melted) I pour into another similar water kettle and there it stays for directly casting with the mold.

I do not flux. Since the neck of the kettle is fairly at the bottom, I get into the mold only the lower part of the melted lead and on top the scrap is Floating. That way the scrap tends to stay in the kettle but does not get into the mold.
If the lead is about to finish then I melt more WW and add These molten WW to the secon kettle again so again the scrap is Floating again on to and does not get into the mold.
Works fairly good, gives wrinkled bullets (which may be due to high Zinc content, cold kettle neck and too much time between pouring) but These wrinkled bullets are usable (as Long they have sharp edges and bullets are complete).

[AJG]

NavyVet1959,
The water kettle is still of aluminum. it is max of 1 Liter Volumen (over 4 lbs of liquid lead makes bad castings since it is difficult to heat enough the lead/zinc). This month I will Change it to an "safer" steel or cast iron one.
Exactly that is one of the cause of my wrinkled bullets. The neck is so Long the lead partially cools down. On one opportunity I had to put direct fire on the kettle neck in order to liquify the lead/zinc (whatever it was). I believe I have at least an 1/4 of Zinc Content in my "lead" ready for casting.
I put a whole kettle full of wheel weigths and melt it completely whatever is melting. From time to time the molten lead (whatever has melted) I pour into another similar water kettle and there it stays for directly casting with the mold.
I do not flux. Since the neck of the kettle is fairly at the bottom, I get into the mold only the lower part of the melted lead and on top the scrap is Floating. That way the scrap tends to stay in the kettle but does not get into the mold.
If the lead is about to finish then I melt more WW and add These molten WW to the secon kettle again so again the scrap is Floating again on to and does not get into the mold.
Works fairly good, gives wrinkled bullets (which may be due to high Zinc content, cold kettle neck and too much time between pouring) but These wrinkled bullets are usable (as Long they have sharp edges and bullets are complete).

[NavyVet1959]

If you don't flux, then some of the tin and other metals are going to come out of the alloy and you'll lose them. You don't necessarily want this to happen. I suspect there are threads on this site describing the metallurgy of fluxing in more detail.

When you get wheelweights, what sort of quantities are you getting them in? Over here, when we get them, it's usually in 5 gallon bucket quantities, so we wait until a good day and then smelt them down and pour smaller ingots out of them. Smelting in large quantities also helps you average out the alloy that you get.

The wrinkled bullets can also be caused by your mold or your lead being too cool. The lead having to travel through that long neck is going to cool down the lead quite a bit.

The freon containers that the air-conditioner repairmen use for large home air-conditioners make good smelting pots. So do the 20 lb propane tanks. Smelt down all your wheelweights, skim the clips and junk out of them, flux a couple of times, skim some more, and then cast the lead that you get into some small ingots.

For a cheap casting pot, you could even make one out of one of the small propane tanks like you see sold for propane torches or camp stoves. I would suggest the ones for the camp stoves though since they have a wider base. For example:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31vMUhKeJcL.jpg

Just cut the top off of it. Use a stainless steel condiment ladle and drill a 3/32" hole in the bottom of the ladle and you have a bottom pour ladle. I found a 1/16" hole to be too slow of a fill rate and the next size up was 3/32" which seemed about right. It's possible that 1/8" might be have too fast of a fill rate. I don't know since I didn't try it out though. Around here, those ladles cost about $1 each. They angle between the ladle and the handle is more vertical than the normal kitchenware ladles, so they are better for dipping into pots that are deep and narrow.

https://www.restaurantsupply.com/winco-ldi-15sh

Just keep your mold over the "pot" and move it under the stream of lead coming out of the bottom of the pot and you won't have it going anywhere other than back in the pot.

[AJG]

I use this one for lubricating cast lead bullets. Yes it is Texaco Lithium Complex NLGI 2 grease.

here Webpage https://www.chevron.com.br/negocios/...D-5F9BFD4B0475 (https://www.chevron.com.br/negocios/lubrificantes/produtos/produto.aspx?id=4C208106-70A3-45AC-B6ED-5F9BFD4B0475).
Picture:
https://www.chevron.com.br/negocios/lubrificantes/produtos/images/4C208106-70A3-45AC-B6ED-5F9BFD4B0475-large.jpg

[Traffer]

Some of those old "water" pots are pewter. I would advise that you not try to melt lead in one of those. Bwahahahahahaha.

[big bore 99]

I'd put that tea pot looking thing aside right now before using it again. You might have just been lucky till now. Especially if you're getting zinc to melt. Parts of it might get soft and collapse. Would be a heck of a problem. I use the side cutters as mentioned. When you find a zinc one, compare the sound with a known lead one when dropping it on a cement floor. Thud vs zing.