Multi purpose machine for smithing?

[corvette8n]

HF has this mill-drill-lathe machine.
item # 39743-9RAH
$499.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39743

my needs
cutting dovetails
shorten and or crowning barrels (rifle)
restoring a tractor
am I better of with seperate machines
if so which one first, or are their better machines out there, that don't cost an arm and leg.

[ANeat]

I had one of the bigger Smithys and it was OK as a lathe but mediocre as a mill. Something like cutting dovetails while possible was always an exciting experience. You really had to plan out your cuts being careful not to climb mill or the cutter "may" grab and snap off or ruin your work. Really easy to do with a little dovetail cutter.

I ended up getting a Bridgeport, no regrets, now I need a lathe...........

The Harbor Freight machine you listed is tiny. No mention of what size the hole thru the spindle is.

[waksupi]

One of the most common things people do with a dove tail cutter,is to try and do the full cut with it. The best route, is to cut away the excess with a straight mill, then take a few thousandths at a time, and clean up the dovetailing. Saves a lot of cutters. That is how they are intended to be used.

[lathesmith]

That machine is way too small to do any sort of rifle barrel work--a bed length of less than 10inches and a spindle bore of .35". To do the kind of work you are wanting, I would floor my recommendations with the following:


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991

and a small lathe:

http://grizzlyindustrial.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602

That lathe has a 1" spindle bore, which is big enough to be quite useful. Of course, bigger is always better, but is also more $$$$.

I would avoid those 3-1's machines unless you have quite a bit of machining experience and only occasionally have a project to work on.
My .02,
lathesmith

[Morgan Astorbilt]

After a drill press, I would consider a 12"x36" lathe, to be the next machine necessary for gunsmith work, maybe a 10", if it's got enough bore through the spindle. . I managed professionally, for many years with a Palmgren milling attachment, first on my 12"x36" Clausing, and then on my 12"1/2" x 48" Cincinnati, until I got my Bridgeport. There is some work, such as extractor cuts, that are actually easier with this, than on the Bridgeport, which unless you've got a Volstro right angle attachment, requires mounting the barrel vertically using a "V" block and angle plate, and swinging the ram around to the edge of the table. On the lathe, the barrel is just clamped in the milling attachment, and the cut made with the cross feed. The milling attachment, with a little ingenuity,will also hold a 1/4" die grinder, or a Dremel tool for light tool post grinding.

With any machinery, drill press, lathe or milling machine, weight is a major factor in eliminating vibration and chatter. That's why, although it usually requires searching out, I prefer good old American "Iron".

Regarding the cutting of sight slots, the standard 3/8" dovetail is usually .090" deep, and started with a 1/4" straight end mill, cut at this depth. The second cut is with the 3/8" 60º cutter, which is brought down to just touch the bottom of the previous cut. A piece of cellophane is good for this. More accurate work, can be done with one of the "under size" 60º cutters, such as sold by Brownells, taking a second cut to fit the particular sight.

Morgan

[Hang Fire]

I presently have a little 7x12 mini lathe and a mini mill. And the one you asked about is much smaller as to size, and believe me, when they are this small, a little equals a lot.

Haven't updated the site for a while, but may give an idea.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Rolands_Mini_machine_shop.html

[Sam]

Like most machines that try to do everything, they do few or none of them well.

Machines to get, in order

A tabletop drill press
Lathe, 12"x36
Milling attachment for the lathe
Vertical mill
surface grinder

By teh time you get teh vertical mill you won't want any advice anyway ;D

[PatMarlin]

I have that machine and the 3 jaw chuck has .012 runout.. :roll:

I bought it on sale for $350 to learn with and create not so precise work, and it is working very well for that. I wouldn't let one of my guns within 100 yards of that thing though.. :mrgreen:

Actually mines an older model and doesn't cut threads.

[PatMarlin]

I presently have a little 7x12 mini lathe and a mini mill. And the one you asked about is much smaller as to size, and believe me, when they are this small, a little equals a lot.

Haven't updated the site for a while, but may give an idea.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Rolands_Mini_machine_shop.html

Great work and set up there... :drinks:

I really like your lathe center gage. Gotta make one of those.. :Fire:

[JIMinPHX]

I would wait & buy a better quality machine if you are planning to do any gun related work. I've used those things when I was out in the field at customers' job sites. I have never found one that I liked.

[454PB]

I agree with PatMarlin. Any lathe/mill is better than none. Sure, we'd all like to have $10K worth of tooling, but you can find some pretty good chinese tools to learn on while you're squirelling away money for that "dream machine" I've made hundreds of small project, tools, sizing dies, expanders, etc. on my second hand Grizzly 3-In-One, and it keeps my limited skills fresh. I paid less for the lathe than I did for a lot of the handguns I own, and I'm sure I can recover my money if I want to move up.

[grumpy one]

I notice you want to be able to do tractor restoration work as well as gun work on whatever you buy. My experience with a tired old Massey 40 tractor-front loader-backhoe I used to own is that the bits that need fixing are usually too big to even lift single-handed. I don't think that refugee from a jewellery factory you are looking at is quite going to make it, so far as tractor work is concerned.

It seems to me you need to refine your mission a bit. You can easily do gun work on full-sized toolroom machines, but you can't do toolroom work on toy machines. On the other hand full-sized machines need full-sized accessories, and buying those can drive you broke very quickly.

Each of us finds his own solutions. I inherited a virtually unused Cincinatti No. 5 universal mill with a full set of every imaginable accessory when my uncle died, but there was no way I could accommodate it, so I ended up with a sort of oversized Bridgeport copy and only the few accessories I felt I could justify. Every time I take a cut and 1 thousandth of an inch turns into either half a thousandth or two thousandths, I curse the day I parted with that Cincinatti. Same when I have to take metal off .020 at a time instead of half an inch at at time. The reality is, though, that the Cincinatti needed an overhead hoist to change accessories, which meant a ten foot ceiling plus groundspace for the hoist's cantilevered monorail to swing around. It also took maybe 20 minutes to switch setups instead of 5 minutes or less. In the end you have to work out what you need to do, and plan how you'll get the required capability. In my case it meant dispensing with a dividing head and just making a fixture that let me mount any of my lathe chucks on the rotary table.

[Hang Fire]

Great work and set up there... :drinks:

I really like your lathe center gage. Gotta make one of those.. :Fire:

The gage is simple as dirt, adjustable, quick and easy to make.

I am sometimes amazed at these small Chinese tools, the other day, with the proper setup, I did a job with the mill that surprised me. (the work itself wasn't very complicated, was just a bit daunting working around limitations of the little milling table and setting it up correctly)

[Swagerman]

For a starter lathe, the Grizzly pictured with 5" and 6.5" chucks would be really good in my estimation.

I still have the first mini-lathe I bought a half dozen years ago, its a HF 7X10 with 3" chuck and 3/4 hp motor. This mini-lathe is for making small parts for my bullet swaging equipment.

If you want to make reloading dies you'll need bigger chucks, and a good quick change tool post.

I would like to own a bigger lathe, with at least a five inch chuck. Though my machinist skills are poor at best, self taught by gleaning from others here, and out of some books.

You'll probably have to spend about $1.500.00 just to get your feet wet in lathe turning.


Jim

[PatMarlin]

Ooh and ahh at this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Clausing-Turret-Metalworking-Lathe-Good-Condition-Clean_W0QQitemZ
290238623431QQihZ019QQcategoryZ92150QQssPageNameZW DVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[JIMinPHX]

I’ve worked on one of those vari-drive Clausings before. That’s a nice machine at a fair price. The replacement cost on that gear from Clausing is probably astronomical though. I had a similar broken gear in my Clausing Colchester when I got it. I think that Clausing quoted me something like $986.00 for the replacement part. I ended up ordering a couple of stock gears from Martin or Browning or somebody & making up the duplex gear for under $100. That was about 8 or 10 years ago & she hasn’t given me a problem yet.

[uscra112]

My $0.02 worth, speaking as an old machine tool rebuilder, is that the current generations of Pacific Rim machine tools are not a patch on the old US built machines, until you get to the $5000 plateau.

A Smithy will only make you cry and utter foul language, IMHO.

I myself am lucky enough to have found a 12" South Bend toolroom lathe with the big hole spindle. Paid too much for it, but you will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Clausings are a very, very good choice.

One big advantage of the South Bend is that the number of them still in use is so large that there parts to be had for them. Clausings,too. Others, it's a problem.

Another plus is that most of them have PLAIN BEARING spindles, which give better surface finishes than any roller-bearing spindle can do. They won't turn very fast, but they do a lovely job of threading barrel shanks. Do not be put off by a flat belt drive to the headstock. It works very, very well.

One that I'd grab in a New York minute is on eBay now - - -

Search for South bend lathe 16 . It'll be well down the page.

[PatMarlin]

I would like a South Bend flat belt drive for my future flat belt- jackshaft powered shop.. :Fire: