ID This powder ?

[umwminer]

Several or more years ago I purchased some "repacked" powder that the seller told me was 700x . When I went to use it for .45acp cast boolit loads I noticed that it had a similar appearance to 700x but it has a hole in the middle of the flake .
I think that it might be PB .

Question.......do any of you Brothers know of any other round flake type of powder with a hole in it ?
I experimented with it by using BE data just to stay on the fast side of the curve and worked up to 5.0gr w/a 230 cast RN .
I chronoed this load next to the same combo exceptfor using 5.0gr of 700x .
The mystry powder pushed the boolit down the tube 50fps faster .

[maxreloader]

trailboss

[mozeppa]

trail boss ...the only one i know of....some call them cheerios:bigsmyl2:

[Hick]

And 700X has yellow 'marker' flakes in it-- no yellow? not 700x

[jmorris]

I normally strongly advise against identifying powder by looking at it but if it looks like a tiny washer, trailboss is the only one I know of.

http://utahvarminters.org/images/trailboss_powder.jpg

[runfiverun]

before trail boss was re-released as trail boss it was known as lightning no-2.
they discontinued it for about 50 years.

[OS OK]

Trail Boss is distinctively little greenish doughnuts.

175657

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=184
This is Accurate -#2...175656

[Drdarrin]

Ah, it sucks that you have forgotten what type powder it is but is the risk of getting it wrong worth the reward?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

not Accurate NO-2.
Lightning no-2.

there were other powder makers before Hercules and IMR.
bulls-eye is long associated with Alliant/Hercules but it pre-dates both of them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

So, Accurate #2 is donut shaped also ?
I've never used it...


http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=184
This is Accurate -#2...175656

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I normally strongly advise against identifying powder by looking at it but if it looks like a tiny washer, trailboss is the only one I know of.



Yes, that is excellent advice. I remember an article in the NRA Gunsmithing Guide Updated (which isn't as updated as all that) in which a US military team armourer came close to advising people not to do any gunsmithing whatever. He couldn't be called excessively cautious. But he said it was important to be able to identify the different powders by appearance. I think it is important to keep everything labelled.

The OP appears to have started small (as you must, in a case like this), and worked up to a safe load. But manufacturers, including manufacturers of powders for the military or commercial loaders which we never see, can make powders of very different characteristics and similar appearance. The OP should be safe with what he is doing, but shouldn't assume he can switch to other loads known to be safe with 700x. You might shorten the working-up process a little in such a case, but it does need to be done again.

[maxreloader]

I have never used AA#2 so can't help there. The only other powder I have seen with a hole in the middle was pulled from extremely old split-neck 30 US (30-40 Krag) rounds...

[victorfox]

Hmmm, weird shapes in this powder...

175671

[OS OK]

Hey fellas, All I did was a search trying to help this fella out...what did you do besides sit there with your thumb up your butt waiting on someone like me to respond...get a life!

Couldn't find 'lightning #2' what the heck did you do?

[OS OK]

Yes, that is excellent advice. I remember an article in the NRA Gunsmithing Guide Updated (which isn't as updated as all that) in which a US military team armourer came close to advising people not to do any gunsmithing whatever. He couldn't be called excessively cautious. But he said it was important to be able to identify the different powders by appearance. I think it is important to keep everything labelled.

The OP appears to have started small (as you must, in a case like this), and worked up to a safe load. But manufacturers, including manufacturers of powders for the military or commercial loaders which we never see, can make powders of very different characteristics and similar appearance. The OP should be safe with what he is doing, but shouldn't assume he can switch to other loads known to be safe with 700x. You might shorten the working-up process a little in such a case, but it does need to be done again.

Never, in my life, have I seen anybody use more words...to say 'less' than you do...never...in my life! You are an enigma of any proportion..

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Never, in my life, have I seen anybody use more words...to say 'less' than you do...never...in my life! You are an enigma of any proportion..

Well I will just make an effort to value your opinion as much as anyone else does.

[OS OK]

Thanks...at least...'I think', I mean thanks...what you need to consider is this...we Americans "all'' have our opinions of your 'inconspicuous meandering comments!' I've studied magnetics under Theoria Apophasis, another pseudo-brilliant mind, that's a compliment, mind you... who meanders around the globe to get one within the realm of whatever the heck it is he's talking about?

[NavyVet1959]

If I don't know what is is, I just assume it is Bullseye and work up from there. A chrono and a rod to hammer out stuck bullets could prove useful. :)

[runfiverun]

Accurate #-2 is a ball powder.
I have only seen 1-2 powders from accurate that wasn't a ball powder, their 2495 and airc one other.

[Driver man]

What ever powder it ends up being ,I think it is starting to deteriorate and shouldnt be used.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Accurate #-2 is a ball powder.
I have only seen 1-2 powders from accurate that wasn't a ball powder, their 2495 and airc one other.
Well then, it must be a optical illusion or reflection of light. I guess the National Center for Forensic Science needs a grant to buy a better camera :???:

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks...at least...'I think', I mean thanks...what you need to consider is this...we Americans "all'' have our opinions of your 'inconspicuous meandering comments!' I've studied magnetics under Theoria Apophasis, another pseudo-brilliant mind, that's a compliment, mind you... who meanders around the globe to get one within the realm of whatever the heck it is he's talking about?

Need, you say...?

[runfiverun]

BIS let it go.

[Hamish]

Never, in my life, have I seen anybody use more words...to say 'less' than you do...never...in my life! You are an enigma of any proportion..

Whn not in the Pit we either put someone who irritates us on ignore or refrain from addressing them. Put him on Ignore and be done with it.

The general level of decorum on this forum has slipped significantly in the last couple of years and not for the better.

[MnSpring]

Bulk (Dupont)
Here's a can/powder, had for a long time. Never used it, got it in a box of 'Stuff', from a GS.
Asked around, no one knew. (I sure new nothing about it). Best I got was it was to be used as a replacement for BP, and loaded, 'Volume', only, not grains.

Finally wrote Hodgon, The person I got, (through e-mail), never heard of it. Then a couple of days later, he wrote, and said he was sending me something. It was a copy of a page from a book, (Early 60's guessing), and it had Load data.

IN DRAMS, not Grains.

It also said:
"Warning, While this is to be used for volumetric loading, by Drams, it is not suitable for use as a replacement for BP in older guns".
And: "This is a true BULK smokeless powder, and has been the favorite of many handloaders since 1893. It is the only powder of it's type available to the handloader today".

The biggest load was, 10g, 2-7/8", 3.75 DRAMS, 1-1/4shot, 1455 fps.

Can is full, never used any, (never will).
The standard one LB can, contains 8 OZ.

It has a, 'greenish' cast to it, and it looks like the fine, corn cob media.

Wonder if it is the for-runner of, 'Trail-Boss' ?

175752
175753

[MnSpring]

" ... The general level of decorum on this forum has slipped significantly in the last couple of years and not for the better. ..."

I would say, the general level of decorum, in the USA, has, slipped significantly in the last couple of years and not for the better.

[KYCaster]

That doesn't look like the Accurate #2 I have....
Looks more like the Russian stuff GI Brass had. He said use Accurate #2 load data. I bought 8 lbs. to load 45ACP. It wouldn't run through any powder measure I had...had to weigh every charge. What a nightmare. At about 5.5gr. per load, I thought I never would use it all.

Jerry






http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=184
This is Accurate -#2...175656



Edit to add:
Reread the OP and it jogged my memory a little....felt kinda weird. ;-)

Jeff may have mentioned 700X in his description. It's very close to #2 on the burn rate charts.

Those odd looking shapes didn't come apart...part of the reason it didn't meter well. Very light and fluffy. Sure did fill up a 45 case.

[NavyVet1959]

" ... The general level of decorum on this forum has slipped significantly in the last couple of years and not for the better. ..."

I would say, the general level of decorum, in the USA, has, slipped significantly in the last couple of years and not for the better.


As we get older, we are less inclined to put up with idiots... :)

"Hey you kids! Get off my damn lawn!"

[depoloni]

So... looking through the powders I have here, which do not include TrailBoss (unfortunately)...
Add Hodgdon Clays to the list of "doughnut" flake powders. Smaller holes than TrailBoss, and doubt it's the powder in question. But it's a doughnut :)

Learned something today! Have a fine evening, gentlemen.

EDIT: Actually.... if it was recently bought and a little hotter than Bullseye for charge weight.... hmm?

[swheeler]

Accurate #-2 is a ball powder.
I have only seen 1-2 powders from accurate that wasn't a ball powder, their 2495 and airc one other.

Accurate 5744,2015,2495,4064,4350 and 3100 are extruded powders.

Pretty sure their Light Target series of powders are extruded too, LT30 and LT32

[OS OK]

175785175786

[KCSO]

From and unopened can of Accurate #2 A BALL powder for use in the 38 Special. It is NOT a donut it's ball.

[runfiverun]

BULK powder was quite popular in the early 1900's up until about 1922-23 or so, it was mentioned quite often in the gun magazines of the day.
townsend whelen's time frame.
look in stuff like American rifleman on google books [and search BULK powder] for data the authors would recommend.

[runfiverun]

oap,,, yeah Scott.
2230 and 2700 are ball powders too, I haven't looked at their LT powders.
all of their pistol powders I have used are ball powders too 4100,1680,#-9 type stuff.

[NavyVet1959]

On a side note, this is what a powder kernel looked like for the Navy 16" guns:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/navypowder03.jpg

Note the 7 holes that went through it lengthwise.

175875

[Hogtamer]

Fertilizer.

[swheeler]

I've loaded 8 of their ball powders, and 4 of their stick powders, next I will try their flake powder when I find some, Solo 1000.

[jmorris]

On a side note, this is what a powder kernel looked like for the Navy 16" guns:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/navypowder03.jpg

Note the 7 holes that went through it lengthwise.

175875


Be neat to see the burn rate on one of those.

[NavyVet1959]

Be neat to see the burn rate on one of those.

Well, the barrels were nearly 67 ft in length and the max muzzle velocity was just 2500-2690 fps (depending upon projectile), so means a pretty slow burn rate. :)

[swheeler]

Bet those would crunch and bridge in your uniflow powder measure!:kidding:

[M-Tecs]

but your scale would be accurate to better than a 1/2 of a kernel!!!!!!!

[swheeler]

I though 5010 was some gawd awful big kernels! I'd love to have a couple of those for S&G

[runfiverun]

you'd just get curious like I would and try whittling some off the side 'just to see'. :lol:

[NavyVet1959]

you'd just get curious like I would and try whittling some off the side 'just to see'. :lol:

Or putting it in a blender to see if you could make a smaller grain powder that would work in something else.

[OnHoPr]

Quick Load pellets for back in the blunderbuss days when time was of the factor, like a sundial.

176181

[swheeler]

nitroguanidine, triple base powder?

[runfiverun]

I believe so.

[Mr Humble]

doesn't 4759 have holes in it too ?