The .303 SAVAGE Cartidge

[Oyeboten]

I am looking at an older SAVAGE model 1899 in .303 Savage.

Doing a little digging in to the Cartridge, I find myself wondering "Why did they bother?"

Can anything interesting be done with this Cartridge to make it a little more appealing?

Does anyone here enjoy the .303 SAVAGE? ~ and do anything cool with it?

[Earlwb]

The .303 Savage cartridge came out just at the beginning of the smokeless powder era over black powder. It is basically equivalent to a .30-30 cartridge. So it would have the same characteristics that the .30-30 has. There isn't anything wrong with it as it makes for a good medium sized animal hunting round at moderate ranges. it was made for the Savage lever rifles that had the rotary magazines so it used pointed bullets. The pointed bullets have a ballistics advantage over the round nose 30-30's. Both the .303 Savage and .30-30 Winchester came out in 1894-95 so they were competitors for each other.

Anyway if you like the .30-30, you would like the .303 Savage. The pointed bullets give it a bit of an edge over the .30-30. But if you don't care for the .30-30 then the .303 Savage likely would not be of interest either.

I think it would be pretty neat to use one for hunting myself. But that is me though. I tend to like using odd rifles and cartridges for hunting.

[Jedman]

I have a M99 H carbine in 303 Savage. It is very similar to a 30-30 Win. but is just enough different to make it special. Being a handloader and loading for over 25 different calibers I don't find the 303 any burden.
I also like wildcat cartridges and never seen or heard of one made on the 303 case but I have one in 40 cal. that would be very much like a 38-55 just haven't done it yet.
Im in my 60's and the 303 was obsolete before I knew what a rifle was but now find it interesting and still effective as a deer rifle.
I am sure others feel the same.

Jedman

[Scharfschuetze]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

[M-Tecs]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-370043.html

or you can purchase it here http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12638

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Out of curiosity, can you form cases from the 30/30? Is the 22 Savage "Hi-Power" based on the 303 Savage?

I wouldn't. It has a head diameter around .02in. larger than the .30-30 family, which includes the .22 Savage High-power. The .220 Swift is often recommended, but I am not sure whether the depth of its semi-rimless rim is enough. It might vary from one rifle to another. I think your best bet would be the .303 British, although you shouldn't need .303 bullets. (While any rifle this age is worth checking with a bore slug or cast before you lay out cash, I think .308 should be fine.) The Savage head diameter is listed at .442in., and .303 British at .455, which is within safe limits for reducing the diameter after you have sized it until you meet firm resistance from the solid head. Anyway, American manufacturers often made the British round under the specified diameter. At the moment you don't need to do this, but it is useful if the supply of that Prvi Partisan brass dries up, as such things often do. Other brass of theirs I have used was of good quality.

The other question has to be how far you can improve on factory ballistics, and I think the answer has to be "a bit". The 99 action was used for considerably higher pressure cartridges, and I doubt if there were metallurgical improvements, at least in the day of the .22 High-power. But if your brass was made to original .303 Savage dimensions it is probably quite thin. The .303 British is probably better.

[ajjohns]

As far as I know, they were never loaded commercially with pointed bullets, but the rotary magazine permits this as long as overall length is maintained. As stated above, the head and rim dia is closer to 303 brit and 30/40 Krag. Barnsness did an article some years ago in Handloader magazine before prvi and Hornady brass was available and used the Krag. Filing down the head area, sizing, and shortening. It also should be noted that Savage's secret to high performance was to load a 190 gr pill, but, it was a .311 dia bullet in a .308 barrel. This gave higher pressures and some comparable velocity to the 30 WCF with the 170 gr. I can't remember off the top of my head who all loaded like this, but it wasn't everybody. Maybe Rem or Peters? used .308 dia and 180 gr. Anyway, his tests showed that it was a basically direct copy to the 30 WCF in velocity in all bullet weights.

I have an old one, standard 24" barrel and was my first deer rifle. Really like it and it shoots good. I have a Redfield receiver sight on it and it fits me perfect. I was fortunate enough to have a lot of brass and ammo come with it so I have no problems there either but I would think between Partisan and Hornady you could find enough to get by. Obviously now for safety reasons and old guns use .308 bullets for reloading. They say, not necessarily that I would, you can use 30 WCF loads grain for grain. Some older books out there have specific data for this round also.

[OnHoPr]

Actually, I think it is an interesting cartridge. Think of the era in which it was developed. If I am not mistaken the new nitro powder of that time was in the form of length strands. It is pretty close to the 30-30. Though, think of the transfer of technologies of the era from heavy cast boolits to the jaxected spitzer. Telescopic sights started becoming more popular. With the length of the neck it could handle very long heavy boolits without baring the bearing bands. The design left room for wildcatting. Just think still to this day depending on if were in the mixed hardwoods you could have it loaded with something like a HP 284 Lyman @ about 1700 fps or if there were some ridges in the hills you could load it with a Nosler 150 BT @ about 2300 fps somewhat duplicating the new Hornady FlexTip ammo being good for a 250 yd ridge shot with a scoped rifle. Its not an 06, but almost adequate for the average whitetail.

[Shawlerbrook]

Like many cartridges, the 303 Savage is not a necessity, but it is very good at what it is. I own a 1913 vintage 1899 in 303 and love it. From my research, the old timers say it was slightly better at longer ranges than the 30 30 and the 190 gr bullet had better penetration and terminal performance on larger animals(moose, bear, etc) than it's close cousin , the 30 30. Like said above, if you like the 30 30, you'll like the 303.

[gnoahhh]

.303 Savage brass is around. I recently bought a 100 bag from Graf's, PRVI. Good stuff. Check and see if they still have some. Jerry-rigging other brass (none of which is worth a tinker's dam- I know, I tried it) is a dead end IMO.

They quit the .311 bullet in a .308 bore trick shortly after they started it. No real benefit in doing so.

The main benefit in .303 over .30/30 is the nifty guns it came in. The 1899 has it all over the M94 and Marlin. (Although the 1899/99 came in .30/30 too, making it even more sweeter.)

Get real .303 brass, load it with .30/30 data, and go forth and do things like this:

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/gnoahhh/Deerhunting2011005.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/gnoahhh/media/Deerhunting2011005.jpg.html)

[richhodg66]

I've always loved that picture, Gary.

Not much to add. I have a 99H in .303 that is a good shooter. Brass isn't that hard to come by, don't bother trying to form it from something. Loads pretty much like any other medium .30. Mine's a good shooter with cast, might just use it for deer this Winter.

[dverna]

I passed on a 99 because it was in .303. I did not want to deal with brass availability and cost of same. The caliber has no redeeming features worth the cost and effort. Now a 99 in .30/30, .300 Savage, .308 or .358 is another story.

[gnoahhh]

Good on you! That attitude means all the more .303's for we aficionados!:D

[pietro]

The .303 Savage cartridge came out just at the beginning of the smokeless powder era over black powder.

It is basically equivalent to a .30-30 cartridge.

The pointed bullets have a ballistics advantage over the round nose 30-30's.

Both the .303 Savage and .30-30 Winchester came out in 1894-95 so they were competitors for each other.





The late 1800's were the days when proud firearms manufacturers refused to place/stamp a competitor's name (in the chambering designations) on THEIR gun.

SOooooooo, Savage brought out the .303, also not chambering for the .30-30 until several years later, and even then (IIRC) not tagging "WIN" onto the tail end of the chambering designation.

Also IIRC, when Savage started chambering for the .30-30, the barrels were stamped ".30 Savage".


I lucked onto a lightweight 1914 Model 99H Carbine in .303 for chump change @ a local Cabela's (just outside the doors to the Gun Library - go figure), and REALLY like the way it handled, much better than my WinchesterM-94 or the .300 Savage 99EG's I've owned before it.


Since it was already D/T'd on the front receiver ring for a scope mount base, I added a red dot sight - with which I'm good for at the ranges I normally encounter when hunting Maine whitetails.

http://i.imgur.com/Ghd2FDtl.jpg


.

[Oyeboten]

Thanks everyone!!

I feel torn...

If the Rifle in question was in .250 3000, or .30 40 Krag, I would be all over it!

I do not Hunt, so...but, if I ever find my self confronting massive civil insurrections and UN Troops in the Streets, I'd really be plenty happy with a Remngton Model 550 dash 1 with a nice 'period' 10 Power Scope on it and a 'can' on the end.

My 1920 SAVAGE Bolt Rifle in 250 3000 got me into some yearning for another old Rifle or two, but, I really want it to be in an interesting to me Cartridge, like .25 '06, or .25 Ackley Krag, or something 'peppy' and 'flat' shooting, yet not a Shoulder bruiser.

The Model 1899 SAVAGE I came across in .303 SAVAGE is just so lovely though...like 1907 or so circa, has the longer Barrel, and the Butt Stock shaped like a "C" to fit around one's shoulder in it's way.

I could just stand there admiring it all day long it looks SO wonderful..!

No Scope provisions, no one ever messed with it in any way I can see.

So...hmmmm...

I wonder if there had been a .303 Sav Ackley Improved???

If so, and if I could find an able Gunsmith who has a Reamer...that might make just enough difference for me to take the plunge..! Lol...

Ohhhh, eeeesh...decisions...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 303 Savage is one of the better 30 caliber cast bullet cartridges. Savage 99's in 303 have usually been much less costly than the 'popular' calibers. It is useful in the manner of a .30-30. Now that brass is available from Prvi, dies from Lee and Redding it is a way to enjoy the Savage 99. Other than some drillings and custom doubles, the Savage 99 is the only factory rifle chambered for the .303 Savage. The Brits did rename the cartridge to the '301 Savage' I believe, to avoid confusion with British .303. I have a featherweight 99 with a Redfield receiver sight I carry and shoot regularly. It certainly is not as practical as a .30-30 or .308, but does that matter? If practical was the issue, wouldn't we all have government mandated bolt-action .30-06's stored at the government facility.

[richhodg66]

I am told that since the .303 was loaded with a heavier bullet (190 grain) than the .30-30, it had a reputation of being a better big game killer. Not sure if that's true, but when I got mine, PPU brass was easy to get and no more expensive than new brass for anything. Already had several suitable molds, sizers, etc. Got a set of dies and away I went, loads and shoots as well as anything else.

[OnHoPr]

something 'peppy' and 'flat' shooting, yet not a Shoulder bruiser.

Well, if you are considering that criteria then why don't you look for something chambered in the 6mm Lee Navy. Just do the research on the barrels, corrosive primers were used back then. It is in that era frame that you are looking. For its day and still today it has some peppy zip.

[northmn]

According to historical articles from my Lever Actions magazine most of what is said was mentioned. It was loaded in more than the 190 grain configuration, some 180's. The 190 was said to be able to shoot through a moose stem to stern, which may have been an exaggeration. I loaded a 188 grain cast in a 30-30 at about 2000 fps, similar to the 303 Savage and it was a very good deer load. Got one at 140 steps from the tree and it dropped pretty quick. MY old Lyman manual has data for the 190 grain 303 Savage bullet in the 30-30 and they recommended it, I would not go out of my way to use one however.
Comment was made on the 99 being better than my Marlins. Had one in 300 and sold it. I shoot left handed and the safety on the lever is totally unmanageable. Trigger pull was atrocious. Clumsy rifle to carry. Marlins are still being made they are not.

DEP

[richhodg66]

Clumsy rifle to carry? Not sure what you had, but a 99EG is the most graceful thing to carry there is. Trigger pull on mine is not bad either, at least as good as either Marlin of the same era I have.

The 99 is the best lever gun ever, period. It was ahead of its time, but regardless, Marlin or Winchesters, good guns though they may be, don't even come close.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Savage, Marlin, Winchester Blonde, Brunette, Redhead? Fortunately multiple rifles are less expensive. I have Savage 99's, Marlins and a couple Winchesters. The 99's vary quite a bit from heavy and awkward to light and handy, Marlin's are mostly 336's, mostly 20" full magazine, a 22" 444 (heavy) and a 22" 1895 45-70, Winchesters - the heavy long Model 71 and a light handy 44 Magnum model 94. I do have favorites - but IT DEPENDS. Elk in dog-hair timber - the 45-70 Marlin, steep country elk - a Savage 99 .358 (light). Triggers - Savage 99 Tang or Top Safety can be adjusted to under 3lbs, most Marlins will go under 3lbs too, Side-Safety Savage 99's 3-3.5 lbs, I haven't fooled with the Winchesters. Accuracy - with 12 to 20 power scopes some h 99's and Marlins go under MOA, most all will do 2 MOA without too much tinkering - NO WIND - 200 yards - 5 shots. The fastest safety is the exposed hammer Marlin, then the Tang -safety Savage, the side-safety Savage is the most difficult. What's better - I don't know ? I enjoy them all. One story I remember is a fellow had a gunsmith use a .30-30 reamer in his .303 Savage so he could use either cartridge - wouldn't cause any trouble on the first firing of factory cartridges at the factory pressure levels. Of course this was in the 1930's - long before his rifle would explode on the Internet.

[Dimner]

I have been itching for a 1899 for about 6 months now. I never can find one that isn't going for nearly $1k or is basically trashed and still being sold for 500 to 600 bucks. When is someone going to make a replica?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[richhodg66]

"When is someone going to make a replica?"

I wish they would, even though they would have to be so expensive the average guy would/could never buy on.

Keep looking, an occasional good deal can be found. A basic 99EG in .300 Savage is a common enough rifle and a fine hunting rifle for just about any conditions.

[Oyeboten]

Actually, I think it is an interesting cartridge. Think of the era in which it was developed. If I am not mistaken the new nitro powder of that time was in the form of length strands. It is pretty close to the 30-30. Though, think of the transfer of technologies of the era from heavy cast boolits to the jaxected spitzer. Telescopic sights started becoming more popular. With the length of the neck it could handle very long heavy boolits without baring the bearing bands. The design left room for wildcatting. Just think still to this day depending on if were in the mixed hardwoods you could have it loaded with something like a HP 284 Lyman @ about 1700 fps or if there were some ridges in the hills you could load it with a Nosler 150 BT @ about 2300 fps somewhat duplicating the new Hornady FlexTip ammo being good for a 250 yd ridge shot with a scoped rifle. Its not an 06, but almost adequate for the average whitetail.


Good mentions...

There of course would be prety wide choices in Loading, and room to experiment with ( sensible ) 'Express' rounds or even downloaded rounds for basic 100 Yard accuracy...it could be pretty fun I suppose if I decide to go for the Gusto...

[Oyeboten]

Well, if you are considering that criteria then why don't you look for something chambered in the 6mm Lee Navy. Just do the research on the barrels, corrosive primers were used back then. It is in that era frame that you are looking. For its day and still today it has some peppy zip.


Lol...I indeed have had my eye peeled for a nice Sporting Rifle from the 'teens or 'twenties in the famed 6mm Lee, and I found a few, too...that was one 'Milestone' Cartridge, for sure.

I did worry and vex about bore erosion, and these were on Gunbroker or GunAuction or Gunsamerica and so on, and the sellers did not really dwell much on bore condition in the descriptions.

And, that is indeed an "interesting" Cartridge!

[nekshot]

If I had some extra mullah I would love to have a 303 sav beater and run a 30-30 improved reamer up the snout and see how that would work. I have a 99 in 303 that almost qualifies (somebody put a dent in receiver- a thread here some where on that) but with the 26 inch tube it shoots speer 130 grainers into 1 inch moa and I don't want to lose that ability. I really like the 303 savage and don't get the rift about it. Of course that was after I found Graf's brass!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I added a red sot sight - with which I'm good for at the ranges I normally encounter when hunting Maine whitetails.

It is usually a bit too pernickety to comment on spelling, unless it leads to dangerous error. But the above is a picture...

In a fairly common pattern, the early 99s always strike me as far nicer rifles than the late ones. I do think they look better with a pistol grip, but I wouldn't call that a functional thing. Most rifles of this type would be used in short to medium range woods shooting, and not many people ever complained of a straight grip on a shotgun. It also beats me why they gave up the rotary magazine. Again, it isn't really a functional difference, even on my 1926 Mannlicher-Schoenauer as compared with the concurrent box-magazine version. But when they had it, why do away with it? I can't see that it was even much of a production economy, which is what most improvements are.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Lol...I indeed have had my eye peeled for a nice Sporting Rifle from the 'teens or 'twenties in the famed 6mm Lee, and I found a few, too...that was one 'Milestone' Cartridge, for sure.

I did worry and vex about bore erosion, and these were on Gunbroker or GunAuction or Gunsamerica and so on, and the sellers did not really dwell much on bore condition in the descriptions.

And, that is indeed an "interesting" Cartridge!

It was indeed. I've got a Winchester-Lee sporting version of the Navy rifle, with a bore that isn't worth resurrecting. Maybe someday I will find a liner, or a blank which could turn down to one, in the fast twist rifling. Doubts have been cast recently on the rifle's safety, but I suspect they refer to cases where some unreasonable behaviour caused accidents. What I dislike is that it relies on impact, after an inch or so of bolt movement, rather than primary extraction. The turnbolt Remington-Lee is a more conventional alternative, but no rifle for this cartridge is likely to be common or cheap.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If I had some extra mullah I would love to have a 303 sav beater and run a 30-30 improved reamer up the snout and see how that would work. I have a 99 in 303 that almost qualifies (somebody put a dent in receiver- a thread here some where on that) but with the 26 inch tube it shoots speer 130 grainers into 1 inch moa and I don't want to lose that ability. I really like the 303 savage and don't get the rift about it. Of course that was after I found Graf's brass!

That will give you a pretty peculiar chamber, for which dies don't exist. The .30-30 Ackley improved is longer to the shoulder, but only .400 in diameter, while the .303 Savage is .413in. Short of a proper CAD program in which you can snap the drawing to a .001in. grid, there is no substitute for a piece of old-fashioned graph paper and pencil to plot out what you are considering.

[nekshot]

I have all of them and dies. With the chamber cast I would be close enough after initial firing to be good to go if no FL resizing be used. It would be a tighter fit than a lot of Lee Enfields and the 303 Brit. I doubt I will do it but it is a thought. In my opinion the 303 Savage case is a sweety for cast or jacketed.

[Huffmanite]

Around 7 years ago, drove about three hours to attended a funeral in a small town 40 or so miles south of Ft. Worth, Tx. Needless to say, a very rural area. Arrived in the town too early and went into a pawnshop to kill some time. Pawnshop was in what once had probably been some mercantile store a long ago. Still had lots of glass counter/cabinets to display merchandise. Anyway, at least three of the glass counter/cabinets had Savage 99 rifles just stacked in them. Must have been at least 15 Savage rifles piled into each one. Made me think, dang!, guess everyone around this area must have owned a Savage 99 at one time. Thought I'd buy one of them in 250 Savage, but LOL, they were too pricey for me.

[richhodg66]

Wish I could find a place like that. Everybody wants the .250, but there are other chamberings that are more useful cartridges, the .300 being one.

[Earlwb]

Around 7 years ago, drove about three hours to attended a funeral in a small town 40 or so miles south of Ft. Worth, Tx. Needless to say, a very rural area. Arrived in the town too early and went into a pawnshop to kill some time. Pawnshop was in what once had probably been some mercantile store a long ago. Still had lots of glass counter/cabinets to display merchandise. Anyway, at least three of the glass counter/cabinets had Savage 99 rifles just stacked in them. Must have been at least 15 Savage rifles piled into each one. Made me think, dang!, guess everyone around this area must have owned a Savage 99 at one time. Thought I'd buy one of them in 250 Savage, but LOL, they were too pricey for me.

Some of the Pawn Shops I have been to are open to haggling some on the prices. Especially if one has cash to pay for it. Cash talks. So maybe one could have gotten a better deal on it. Sometimes I think they put a high price on things, just so they can haggle over the price. My wife loves to haggle over the prices of stuff. She does it all the time, even in the big stores.

[pietro]

Some of the Pawn Shops I have been to are open to haggling some on the prices. Especially if one has cash to pay for it. Cash talks. So maybe one could have gotten a better deal on it. Sometimes I think they put a high price on things, just so they can haggle over the price. My wife loves to haggle over the prices of stuff. She does it all the time, even in the big stores.


+1 ! !

The correct way to make money talk is to keep your mouth shut, after telling the pawnshop owner (NOT some clerk) "I'd like to buy this gun, and this is all I have to do it with", WHILE the cash is laid on the counter.

Remember - the 1st person who talks after that, loses. ;)

.

[Oyeboten]

Since the subect of rechambering has come up a few posts back...

Are there any conversions which would be possible and practical for converting a .303 Savage Chamber something else which is .308? I know the m1899 Action was for a somewhat shorter Cartridge than most Military Cartridges of the Day, so, OAL would be a major factor of course.

[pietro]

Since the subect of rechambering has come up a few posts back...

Are there any conversions which would be possible and practical for converting a .303 Savage Chamber something else which is .308?

I know the m1899 Action was for a somewhat shorter than most Military Cartridges of the Day, so, OAL would be a major factor of course.




While it's theoretically possible (the .300 Savage might work, with a .300 rotor in the .303 action), rechambering a Savage 1899 or a pre-1955 Model 99 for a larger cartridge is not practical due to the need for altering the rotor so the new cartridge case will feed.

Of course, if you don't mind having a single-shot M-1899 (like when the .410 bbl is used on a takedown model), it's physically possible, within the cartridge OAL limits set by the action.



.

[Earlwb]

Since the subect of rechambering has come up a few posts back...

Are there any conversions which would be possible and practical for converting a .303 Savage Chamber something else which is .308? I know the m1899 Action was for a somewhat shorter Cartridge than most Military Cartridges of the Day, so, OAL would be a major factor of course.

Maybe the .30-40 Krag would work with no mods other than rechambering the barrel. There is a rimmed version of the .308 Winchester round too. I think it is the 7.62x51R in Europe as used in some drillings combo guns there. A new one in development is the .308 Marlin express too. There was the .307 Winchester too, but I have no information about it. These may work if the chamber pressure isn't too excessive. The problem would the the chamber pressures being so high with the .308 Winchester derivatives. If you rebarrel it then maybe the .220 Swift would work fine, since some people have remade .303 Savage cases using .220 Swift, one could go that route.

[Jedman]

It could be rechambered in rimmed or rimless cartridges such as the 300 Savage or 308 Marlin.

Jedman

[gnoahhh]

All this advice re: re-chambering is good, with one caveat. If the rifle is older than 1909, with a square backed bolt, anything more potent than the original chambering may well be too much for the action. Those early receivers have been known to crack behind the bolt mortise due to the square corners being ideal stress risers. That was fixed when they altered the design to include a radiused bolt and receiver mortise. The magazine rotor and cartridge guide is another factor to consider. They were very cartridge specific- a .303 rotor and guide won't feed a .300 for example. Those parts have increased a lot in value in recent years.

Post-1955 actions can handle .308-class/length cartridges, not so earlier ones. Don't even bother trying. I know a guy who persisted and he swore it was one of the nastiest jobs he ever undertook. In order to handle longer rotors, they had to change the internal cavity dimensions of the receivers.

Personally I think it would be a crime against humanity to re-chamber a dandy old .303, unless of course it is trashy and has lost any aesthetic appeal.

[Earlwb]

Yes I agree, unless the gun has no real value or appeal then it wouldn't be worth converting it to a different caliber. But there have been some rather abused examples of the Savage 99's though, that might make for some good candidates. I was thinking that one would have to handload cartridges for some calibers to avoid excessive chamber pressures. Some of us do that already for some of the early 8mm military rifles that came out just before smokeless powder arrived on the scene.

There isn't anything wrong with the .303 Savage cartridge or rifles chambered for it. Now if the person does not reload or want to reload, then this is not a cartridge or rifle that they want.

[northmn]

It is usually a bit too pernickety to comment on spelling, unless it leads to dangerous error. But the above is a picture...

In a fairly common pattern, the early 99s always strike me as far nicer rifles than the late ones. I do think they look better with a pistol grip, but I wouldn't call that a functional thing. Most rifles of this type would be used in short to medium range woods shooting, and not many people ever complained of a straight grip on a shotgun. It also beats me why they gave up the rotary magazine. Again, it isn't really a functional difference, even on my 1926 Mannlicher-Schoenauer as compared with the concurrent box-magazine version. But when they had it, why do away with it? I can't see that it was even much of a production economy, which is what most improvements are.
The pistol grip is ergonomically a better grip than the straight grip. Double shotguns with double triggers were said to be easier to permit movement to switch triggers? Still, if you look at the M16, it was designed as an ergonomic rifle from the ground up and the grip permits more finger strength on the trigger. Marlin also has a pistol grip and claimed less lever throw distance? Rotary magazines were expensive and Savage was going through some financial problems. Also some did give feeding problems. The 99 was getting close to being perfected about the time they dropped it, with a detachable magazine and tang safety, but they also cheapened things by using stained whitewood stocks. Also note they dropped the Savage line of cartridges and went to more common Winchester cartridges, the 243, 284, 308 and 358. While this type of lever action has a following the 88 Winchester and Sako Finnwolf also were discontinued. Demand did not meet the cost of manufacture such that they were too expensive. Note that the BLR is still available but Western designed like the 94 or 336. Both the Sako and Winchester 88 were nicer rifles with one piece stocks but just did not meet marketing demands.

DEP

[northmn]

Another thought. We commonly discuss comparisons to todays loadings of the 30-30. When it came out it was loaded with a 165 or 160 grain bullet at just under 2000 fps. The current loading of 170 at 2220 advertised is fairly recent. The 303 Savage and the often argued 32 Special were a slight step up from the 30-30. The 190 grain bullet at about 2000 in the 303 Savage had a little more authority.

DEP

[Oyeboten]

While it's theoretically possible (the .300 Savage might work, with a .300 rotor in the .303 action), rechambering a Savage 1899 or a pre-1955 Model 99 for a larger cartridge is not practical due to the need for altering the rotor so the new cartridge case will feed.

Of course, if you don't mind having a single-shot M-1899 (like when the .410 bbl is used on a takedown model), it's physically possible, within the cartridge OAL limits set by the action.
.


Ahhh...okay, I had not realized the Rotary Magazine would be different for various Cartridges.

This is a good learning thread for me...thanks!

[Oyeboten]

All this advice re: re-chambering is good, with one caveat. If the rifle is older than 1909, with a square backed bolt, anything more potent than the original chambering may well be too much for the action. Those early receivers have been known to crack behind the bolt mortise due to the square corners being ideal stress risers. That was fixed when they altered the design to include a radiused bolt and receiver mortise. The magazine rotor and cartridge guide is another factor to consider. They were very cartridge specific- a .303 rotor and guide won't feed a .300 for example. Those parts have increased a lot in value in recent years.

Post-1955 actions can handle .308-class/length cartridges, not so earlier ones. Don't even bother trying. I know a guy who persisted and he swore it was one of the nastiest jobs he ever undertook. In order to handle longer rotors, they had to change the internal cavity dimensions of the receivers.


Thanks for this info..!



Personally I think it would be a crime against humanity to re-chamber a dandy old .303, unless of course it is trashy and has lost any aesthetic appeal.


I agree..!

I kind got to wondering about the rechambering idea just in a general way as it applied to the .303 SAVAGE Cartridge, but, indeed, as far as a nice old m1899 which is unmessed with, decent original finish and so on, I would not do it.

A more recent one, one which had been refinished along the way, 'messed with', several generaitons of Scope Mount holes, then, sure...there'd be no loss there.

[cordite]

http:// (http://<a href=&quot;http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/cordite_lee1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF1814_zpsnpw5xnbh.jpg.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/cordite_lee1/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF1814_zpsnpw5xnbh.jpg</a>)http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/cordite_lee1/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF1814_zpsnpw5xnbh.jpg (http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/cordite_lee1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF1814_zpsnpw5xnbh.jpg.html)
Nothing better than hunting with an old rifle and classic cartridge. The 303 savage is very effective