Seasoning your bore ***** article

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Just wanted to share this. Its a great article and can teach the new shooter not to buy into that seasoning your bore thing.

I have worked for several years on lubricants for muzzle loading rifles
and just recieved this from a good friend of mine and he asked me to
comment on it and provide my input---he has used my lubricant for
competative shooting and will not use anything else to shoot and to clean
with--i thought it would be a good subject to start a good discussion
about---and the pro's and con's of the different type of lubricants and
what is the majority of the peoples preference in a lubricant. I know we
have had some discussion in the past so this may add to the base of
knowledge---it was real interesting to me and brought out some
interesting points---my personal feeling is there is a difference in
patch lubricants depending on hunting and target shooting---yet you must
have one you can do both with and not have to rezero your gun for eather
type of shooting---have tried everything including the web terry teflon
ticking and each has its place in different types of shooting and
requirements.

please feel free to provide me your input even offline if you wish--again
thanks for your future input--no flame wars only positative discussion
and what you feel is a good and proper patch lubricant and why---note i
am not hammering on the products mentioned only trying to establish a
good base line for proper patch lubricants--

"HAWK"
Michael pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor Florida 34684
E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com

Subject: Re: lube


I tried the Wonder 1000 theory, and I'd love to see someone
actually do that. I've watched 5 different guys try it, and the record
is 8
shots, same as I got. Of course, another way to look at it is: on any
given day that I am hunting deer with it and I get off 10 shots and
don't have a deer to show for it, I probably ought to go home and give
some serious consideration to what I am doing wrong.

Tony,

You have no idea how much humor has come out of Ox-Yoke's claims on the
1000 Shot Plus lube. To the point where some of us now call them
Ox-Joke. With any of my three BP rifles "an historic feat" is getting the
4th ball down the bore without resorting to a bigger hammer.
I'll run you through the full story since the snow has started to fall.
Lets go back to the early 1980's.

A shooter/buckskinner by the name of Young, living in California, went
to the range one day and forgot his patch lube. In utter desperation he
whips out a tube of Chap-Stick and smears it on a few patches. Lo &
Behold it worked better than the lube he had been using. Several of his
buddies tried his idea and reported it worked well. So Young then
tracked down the source of Chap- Stick which is a common lip balm
formulation that has been floating around since the late 19th century.
Chap-Stick is petrolatum (petroleum jelly) with 5% cetyl alcohol and
water. The cetyl alcohol acting as the emulsifyer. With the cetyl
alcohol the water forms minute beads within the petrolatum. Without the
cetyl alcohol you can't get the water to mix in any way with the
petrolatum. Huge quantities of cetyl alcohol are used in the production
of PVC emulsion resins used in kitchen flooring. (My old job was as an
R&D
Tech. on these resins.) The petrolatum is the moisture barrier and
carrier for a topical agent used to soothe chapped lips. The water
emulsified into the petrolatum reduces the drag of the "stick" when you
apply it to your lips and acts as the moisturizing agent. Young then
finds a place to buy Chap-Stick in bulk and packages it as Young Country
Arms 103 Lube. That his lube and Chap->Stick are identical in every
respect, right down to the color, suggested he simply bought from the
makers of Chap-Stick in bulk quantities. Now Ted Bottomly had started
Ox-Yoke and made pre-cut patches and packs of patch cloth. He wanted a
patch lube to round out his line. He bought the first Ox-Yoke lube from
Young. When I first saw them I was at the late C.P. Wood's house in West
Virginia. Woody was looking at a 4 ounce container
of Young Country 103 and a 3 ounce container of Ox-Yoke's patch lube.
Both were identical in every respect, including color. You paid the same
price for 3 ounces of Ox-Yoke's lube as you paid for 4 ounces of Young's
lube. The logical conclusion would be that Ox-Yoke was buying from Young
and the missing ounce was Ox-Yoke's profit on the deal.

Both were advertising their respective lubes in the magazines. Young
advertised that you could fire a hundred rounds without wiping the bore
with his lube. Three months later, Ox-Yoke would advertise that when you
used their lube you could fire 200 rounds without wiping the bore. The 3
month lag time in the mags being the lag time in getting adds scheduled.
This went on, each one upping the ante, so to speak.
Those of us connected with the Buckskin Report discussed this in letters
and thought it a great joke.

The others in the field at that time were Hodgdon with their "Spit-Patch"
which was nothing more than beeswax emulsified in water with a soap.
Then there was T/C Maxi-Lube which was nothing more than the same
petroleum grease they used to grease the bearings in their machines.
Blue and Grey products was selling an automotive wheel bearing grease
that had been pigmented, not dyed, blue. I receieved several letters from
Doc Carlson. He was seeing BP muzzleloaders come into his shop with
balls or slugs stuck in the bore just ahead of the powder charge. You
could not pull these projectiles by any normal method.
He would have to remove the breech plugs, pull the charge and beat them
out of the bore, toward the muzzle with a heavy rod and a hammer. He
described the presence of a black tar-like film in the bore where the
projectiles had been frozen in place. The common thread in this being
that the shooter had used one of the "petroleum-based" lubes. I had to
explain to Doc that the petroleum greases were nothing more than
petroleum lubricating oils that had been "bodied" by the addition of
metallic soaps such as calcium or cadmium stearate. With a petroleum
lubricating oil, or grease, anytime you heat them to a high temperature
in the presence of sulfur you get asphalt. The way asphalts were
produced was to take crude oil and sulfur in an autoclave. Heat the
mixture to 600 degrees for about 8 hours
and you had road tar. Which is about what was happening in the gun.
Since the repackaged Chap-Stick was a petroleum wax it did not form
asphalt with sulfur and high temperatures. I then wrote an article for
the Backwoodsman magazine and compared the behavior of the two Chap-Stick
lubes to the behavior of sperm whale oil when it had been used in black
powder guns.

Well, Old Ted Bottomly jumped right onto that one. three months later
he starts advertising that his lube is "all-natural, non-petroleum" and
authentic, using what our ancesters had used. At that point I figured
his parents were to Christian to call him ******* so they settled for
Bottomly. By about 1984, Bottomly and Young had a falling out over
pricing. The one ounce shy thing with Ox-Yoke pushed most of the
customers to Young's lube. Same thing, same price but more of it with
Young Country 103. And by this time we were up to 800 rounds between
swabbings. Technology marches on. Bottomy came out with his first Wonder
Lube. Years of research went into this lube, or so he claimed. Now at
this time Ox-Yoke was located in West Suffield, CT. A short time later I
was searching the drugstore shelves looking for petrolatum-based skin
care products or salves that I coulde repackage and become a millionaire
<vbg>. I spotted this tube of something
called "Mineral Ice". Menthol in petrolatum. Made by a Dermatone
Laboratories located in Suffield, CT. Out comes the map. just by a
mere coincidence both companies were located just across the river from
each other. This of course raised doubts as to the "years of research"
comments out of Bottomly. The new Wonder Lube went into the lab. Proved
to be mineral oil, paraffin wax, a yellow dye and oil of wintergreen. A
book at work on fats, waxes and oils nailed this one down to a common
chest rub preparation for those with head colds who could not tolerate
camphorated oil. Again it was billed as "all-natural and non-petroleum".
Never mind that paraffin wax comes from paraffinic crude oils and mineral
oil comes from napthenic crude oils, the yellow dye and the oil of
wintergreen should convince anybody that it is all-natural and
non-petroleum. Given the wax and oil, I simply refer to this type of lube
as a remanufactured vaseline. With the yellow dye the rubes will swear
it is beeswax.

One thing about con artists is that they are never content to leave a
con artest for any length of time. In 1990, Bottomly comes out with a
new version called 1000 Shot Plus lube. High-technology now made
possible a lube that eliminated fouling, eliminated the need to clean and
would totally stop bore corrosion. Bottomly searched the world for this
modern technology and found it in Germany after years of searching. This
advance in this lube was made possible by this
secret micronizing agent. It gave the lube a micron particle size that
made all of this advancement possible. At that point his chest thumping
ego trip gave away the formula. This secret micronizing agent is no real
secret and has been around for over 100 years. It is nothing more than a
fossil wax mined in Germany. The same time of wax used to be mined in
Utah as Utah Wax but the mine closed for lack of business.
Paraffin wax is a hard brittle wax that forms huge crystals. When you
look at a block of paraffin wax sold for food canning you see lines on
the surface of the blocks of wax. Those are the lines denoting crystal
size. It had been found that if you added this fossil wax to paraffin
wax it would reduce the size of these crystals, though nowhere near a
micron in size. Paraffin wax was limited in which skin care and salve
formulations it could be used in because of the macro-crystallinty of it.
This made it unsuited to preparations where hardness and brittleness
were objectionable. By using the fossiol wax addition the paraffin wax
could replace more expensive waxes in these products. But when you lay
this type of Techno-Nonsense on a bunch of ignorant rube BP shooters they
will beat a path to your door, wallet in hand.

Now, to get back to an historic feat of 3 shots without swabbing the
bore. The problem with this type of lube is that as long as the surface
temperature of the bore is above the melting point of the wax, about 40
to 45 C, the fouling deposited by the combustion of the powder will slide
off the metal when pressure is applied to it. When the surface
temperature of the bore is below the melting point of the wax it will act
as an adhesive and hold the fouling to the surface. The unburned
charcaol in the powder fouling will adsorb most of the mineral oil
present in the lube. This turns it into an oily sludge that simply
builds up in the breech with repeated loading of the gun. After a few
rounds are fired in a flinter you have the oily sludge being blown out of
the vent which then coats the flint and frizzen. Lubricated flints
strike no sparks.
Now for the real punch line. With the addition of the micronizing agent
they doubled the amount of dye used so the new lube was more orange in
color, compared to the lemon yellow of the previous version, and they
doubled the amount of oil of wintergreen. Convince the rubes that it is
now even more natural. During the past few years there has been much
******** about the quality of Ox-Joke's pre-lubed patches. I have seen
packs in the store where the lube had turned hard and brown. The mineral
oil migrates out of the paraffin wax into the low density polyethlene
used in the bags. This makes the lube hard and brittle. It goes back to
paraffin wax properties. With these an historic feat is getting the
second ball down the barrel without wiping. Ox-Joke supplies T/C with
Bore Butter which is only a slight modification
of Ox-Joke's standard formula.

Remember the dbate about blowing down the barrel on the message boards.
My off line joke was that as long as you use the repackaged Chap-Stick as
a patch lube you would not get chapped lips from blowing down a cold
barrel.

Then their was Uncle Mike's Apple Green patch lube. Another paraffin
wax/mineral oil lube with methylsalicin in it. Nothing more than a
repackaged arthritis salve. I can tell you that is was very effective on
a knee suffereing degenerative joint disease. So if you are going to go
out in those North Woods in winter weather to hunt the elusive whitetail
you ought to take all three lubes along. Prevent chapped lips, take care
of chest colds and arthritic joints from all of the hoofing through the
snow. No reason for you to return home in anything less than the best of
health in spite ot the weather. Might be a good idea to take along one of
the ascorbic acid-based powders since that is vitamin C. Then Goex's
sugar-based powder might make an emergency trail food.

I joke with Dixon that it is bad enough we have to deal with the ATF,
what next with these products, the Food and Drug Administration too???
Well, time to go sit out on the deck for a smoke and listen to the snow
flakes fall.

[waksupi]

Good synopsis. When I hear someone swearing by the Bore Butter or other wonder lube, I know they aren't much of a shooter. I've given up on posting much here, no one wants to listen to decades of personal experience. They would rather jump through all the hoops, spend all the money, and maybe finally figure out the old ways are better.
This would be a good thread for a sticky.

[Maven]

What waksupi said! Also, I've tried Bore Butter, Ox Yoke, et al's Wonder Lube (1k shots without wiping...when pigs fly!), Young Country 103 lube and wasn't impressed at all. Spit, moose milk, or some other wet lubes work very well for target work & woods walks where you don't have to wait long between shots. Home brewed greases, e.g., Stumpy's Moose Snot, solid coconut oil (melts readily) work well for hunting. As for the bore seasoning idea, that was a crock (marketing ploy), which the late Paul Vallandigham thoroughly refuted years ago: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251958/ Btw, the only thing I like about Bore Butter and its clones is the oil of wintergreen odor.

[Lead Fred]

Been using Thompson Centers 1000+ products since it first came out. My current rifle has used it since the barrel was brand new. (over a decade ago)
I have shot up to 75 rounds in one trail walk, and NEVER have had a problem.
I use the #13 cleaner, the bore butter. Even soak my patches in the cleaner. Self cleaning, kinda cheating.

The trick is to get all that nasty clogged up petroleum products out of your barrel first.

[KCSO]

When sperm oil was banned I went to bear oil and it's worked for me, now if only they don't ban bear hunting!

I have a customer who slathers Youngs lube all over his guns to where it takes a day of cleaning to get it to go bang. But it makes him happy.

Good Post
Thanks

[scattershot]

I have had good luck with T/C Bore Butter. I had believed it was a non-petroleum product, but apparently that's not the case. I have mixed up a batch of beeswax and tallow which I haven't tried yet, but it is promising. What are some recommendations for patch lube that don't require encantations in the dark of the moon? What did the old timers use?

[bubba.50]

if ya don't have a bear handy, one 'possum would supply enough grease to get a regiment through skirmish season.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I tried bear grease but the accuracy wasn't there for me. Seemed to not like a fouled bore either.

This was from 150 yards.
175420

[Boogieman]

Beeswax/ olive oil for hunting Home made moose milk for targets

[johnson1942]

ballistol mixed with anti freeze and water is a good patch lube for me.

[17nut]

What waksupi said! Also, I've tried Bore Butter, Ox Yoke, et al's Wonder Lube (1k shots without wiping...when pigs fly!), Young Country 103 lube and wasn't impressed at all. Spit, moose milk, or some other wet lubes work very well for target work & woods walks where you don't have to wait long between shots. Home brewed greases, e.g., Stumpy's Moose Snot, solid coconut oil (melts readily) work well for hunting. As for the bore seasoning idea, that was a crock (marketing ploy), which the late Paul Vallandigham thoroughly refuted years ago: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251958/ Btw, the only thing I like about Bore Butter and its clones is the oil of wintergreen odor.

Linky no worky!
Do you have to be a member to read it?

[Maven]

17nut, The link works for me, but I'm a member there. Be that as it may, here's the article from the link:

Why We Don't Season Barrels Anymore


by


Paul H. Vallandigham


Periodically, some new shooter comes on the forum claiming that he needs to "SEASON" his barrel.

Today's modern barrels are made of STEEL, an alloy of iron and other metals, which produces a much harder metal. Muzzleloading barrels are made either of a soft alloy with lead in it to make it easy on the cutters (12L14), or harder steels, like 440 alloy steel, which withstands high pressures, but is harder on tool bits. They are not made of the iron that was used in the 18th century.

We don't season Steel, because its next to impossible to do (those pores in steel are filled with trace elements, so there is no room to allow oils or other substances to be burned into the pores), and its Not necessary for good accuracy, or to prevent rust. Simply running an oiled, or greased cleaning patch down the barrel AFTER seating a PRB on the powder charge, will protect the front portion of the bore from rusting.

Today, the most common IRON product to be found in a home is the Frying pan, or "Skillet" used to cook. Even those are becoming more rare- often only seen in camping equipment, rather than used in the home kitchen. Skillets are made of CAST IRON, which, unlike Wrought iron, have large PORES in the surface.

We SEASON cast iron skillets (but not steel, aluminum, or Teflon coated skillets) to fill the pores of the steel to prevent rusting (RUST adds a terrible taste to food), and to make a very smooth slick surface to use to cook certain foods, like Eggs.

To Season a Frying pan, or skillet, you first rub the surfaces of the skillet with shortening, or lard, or fat. Coat it liberally, so that you don't miss a spot. The place the greased skillet in an oven heated to 500 degrees!

Leave the skillet in the oven at that high temperature for at least an hour. Then turn off the oven. When the oven and the skillet cool to room temperature, inspect the skillet. If there are spots of plain steel showing, or if the entire surface of the skillet is Not Black and Smooth, and slick to the touch, repeat the process, until it becomes that smooth, black Greasy feeling surface (a dry grease- not gooey). With a properly seasoned frying pan/skillet, you can fry eggs on them, and the eggs won't stick to the pan.

In the 18th century, when barrels were forged from soft iron, the barrels were seasoned, often by the gunmaker. He would coat the rifling with a thick layer of fat, then heat the barrel up in his forge, and burn out the fat. What was left in the open pores of the iron bore was the "Seasoning", that prevented rusting inside the barrel.

I am sure that somewhere, in this country, someone is forging IRON barrels. The Possibility exists then, that a shooter could run into a modern made gun, made with a true Iron barrel. I can't imagine the cost of such a gun, considering the labor involved in making such a barrel using the old forging methods, and I would not fire such a gun, since there are cheaper, safer barreled guns available for shooting and hunting.

With Steel Barrels, any attempt at "seasoning" the barrel will only result in frustration, and in a clogged bore, that eventually looks like a smoothbore. The Grooves of the rifling fill up with charred residue, to the point that there appear to be NO more grooves.

This very thing has been observed these past 30 years, in Thompson/Center rifles, because that company's early loading manual spoke about just adding more "Wonderlube" to the barrel if a ball or bullet began to stick in the barrel because the barrel was not cleaned, or swabbed between shots. A lot of people, including members of this forum have made (and probably will continue to make) a lot of money buying up OLD T/C rifles, with the barrels "Shot out", for bottom prices. (The current T/C manual no longer carries that advice, I am told).

The gun barrels are taken out of the stocks, given a good soak for several days with soap and water, then scrubbed well with a bore brush to remove all the crud accumulated in the grooves of those barrels. It comes out in CHUNKS! Typically, when the barrels are CLEANED, they look as good as new, and shoot PRBs just fine. The guns are then sold for a nice profit.

[Plunge a piece of soft wire coat hanger, heated red hot, into a container of oil - any oil. The wire will come out with a smooth, Shiny Black coat on the surface, that is quite durable. It's the closest you can come with modern metals to see what a seasoned barrel WOULD look like].

Years ago, now, I offered to try to help a small local gunsmith, who had just opened up a New shop, get more business into his store, by getting the members of my local gun club to come out, on an Advertised Saturday, to offer to inspect and CLEAN and oil the guns of hunters intending to hunt in the up-coming seasons, for a nominal charge. He looked at me IN HORROR! He told me that if people actually cleaned, inspected, and oiled their guns, he would be OUT of BUSINESS!

He told me that a substantial part of his pre-hunting season business profit came from customers who brought their guns to him to be cleaned and oiled for the next season, having done nothing to them since the last one!

I was raised by a father who Insisted that our guns be cleaned as soon as we got home, and before we did anything else. He inspected our work, initially, and was as hard as any drill sergeant ever heard in Boot Camp.

I can't even imagine taking a dirty gun to a gunsmith, unless it was jammed, and I could not get the gun apart to clean it first. (That's not going to happen with any MLer I have). I would be embarrassed to take a dirty gun to my gunsmith. I obviously was raised in a different world.

If I had to give a truly SHORT answer to WHY we don't Season MLing barrels, It would be, that "we clean our steel barrels, so seasoning is never necessary (nor possible)". Cleanliness is next to Godliness, so goes the old Proverb. The context was different, but the wisdom is still sound.

[pietro]

Been using Thompson Centers 1000+ products since it first came out. - Yep

My current rifle has used it since the barrel was brand new. (over a decade ago) - 25 years, for me.

I have shot up to 75 rounds in one trail walk, and NEVER have had a problem. - N.P. for me, either

I use the #13 cleaner, the bore butter. - YEP - aka: moose milk.

Even soak my patches in the cleaner - Self cleaning, kinda cheating. - I never did that, mostly because I shoot conicals at deer.

The trick is to get all that nasty clogged up petroleum products out of your barrel first. - AMEN ! ! 8-)




FWIW - tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating petroleum based oil.

IOW, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar - which is what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes.

The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were "all natural" whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc.

Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid-1800's when, during the US Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

I've never experienced either rusting or accuracy issues with my front-stuffers, since I started using BB, lo these many, many years ago. [smilie=1:

The differences that folks today seem to have is the type of usage to rifle receives - the constant shooting of range and/or competition shoots or the more occasional use of zeroing, a little practicing, and the occasional hunting shot(s).


I fall into the latter category (zeroing/practicing/hunting), which may be why I've had zero issues with it.


.

[bubba.50]

I've used bore-butter for 45yrs now. never had a problem with it(other than that funky wintergreen smell). and shot after shot after shot after shot fired with no swabbin' 'tween shots. I shoot maxi-balls well lubed with it & the next shot scrapes the foulin' from the last shot makin' it very consistent loadin'.

but, after all that shootin' the barrel gets a good cleanin' with hot water & a few drops of Dawn followed after dryin' with a good shot of oil in the bore and never a problem with rust either.

ya season skillets not rifle barrels. seasonin' a steel barrel is a myth promoted by T/C in their manuals I guess 'cause it sounds good.

[RogerDat]

So just wondering have I picked up bad advice to use Crisco and bees wax? Or tallow and bees wax? Approx. 50/50 mix with a bit more wax for hotter climate and more tallow for colder weather use.

[bubba.50]

beeswax & Crisco makes excellent lube & what I used with my 45-70 & 50-70 rollin' blocks and will be what I go to when I finish usin' up the tube of bore-butter I'm workin on now.

and just like you said, more wax in warmer weather & more Crisco in cooler weather.

[RogerDat]

beeswax & Crisco makes excellent lube & what I used with my 45-70 & 50-70 rollin' blocks and will be what I go to when I finish usin' up the tube of bore-butter I'm workin on now.

and just like you said, more wax in warmer weather & more Crisco in cooler weather. Thanks just getting started with muzzle loaders, around 40+ years ago had a C&B colt I could shoot but I did nothing for it but watch it loaded, pull the trigger, and enjoy. Did buy it eventually but did not shoot it on my own before I re-sold it, daughter being born and needed money more than the pistol.

Have started sort of looking for a percussion civil war era rifle and see a lot of really inexpensive cheaply made or poorly maintained ML rifles at gun shows. Been tempted but I really can't afford to waste money on junk. Have a Remington new army and plan on making own patches and maybe paper cartridges. The Crisco and Bees Wax was intended for those patches and from what I read it should work for PRB loading too. With higher bees wax might work for paper cartridges.

You know for something so simple as put in powder and ball, ram, then apply spark it can get complicated pretty quickly for a novice. Of course it is fun too, there is that.

[cpileri]

That's it, im switching to Chapstik!

Seriously, though, I just use beeswax/Crisco. but I do love reading stories like this. I always get a smile when a charlatan is exposed.

[Maven]

As we have seen from the above posts, there's a wide range of opinions about BP lubes, "grease" lubes, specifically. Many combinations work, but some work better than others. In my own case, it wasn't so much that Bore Butter, et al. caused problems (no build-up in the rifling or tarry deposits ever). Rather, they were expensive and no better than some of the stuff, e.g., Stumpy's MS, that I could make myself. Moreover, I still use Ox Yoke stick lube (a firmer version for lube sizers which I purchased at the Kittery Trading Post years ago) on my Maxi-Balls in my inline rifle. Experimenting with BP lubes is educational as we're trying to find which ones, or rather, which ingredients work well, i.e., manage BP fouling, don't compromise accuracy, have a long shelf life, don't degrade/rot patches. Btw, coconut oil worked well for me as a patch lube on a recent woods walk, so you may want to consider it as well.

[kens]

And what is so terribly wrong with animal fat such as sperm oil, bear tallow, or heaven forbid hog tallow, would that be lard or, Crisco??
The simple truth is that for something as low & slow as a muzzle loader, it doesn't need any technology grease to work.
Tallow, beeswax, all those work fine.
Besides, who has ever needed multiple shots in the woods when deer hunting, ??
If you miss with the 1st shot, the deer is already spooked and long gone.
The story about needing 4 or 5 shots deer hunting doesn't hold water with me.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I for one don't like animal fats as they can go rancid.

[rodwha]

My Gatofeo's #1 hasn't gone rancid and it's been well over two years when I last made it.

Uses mutton tallow as a bit more than a 1/3 by weight...

[pietro]

I always get a smile when a charlatan is exposed.




I wouldn't call them charlatans - I think that they're merely folks who are exhibiting an agenda that expresses/advances their own prejudice(s).

IMO a charlatan is somebody who will say anything to make some sort of profit (not necessarily $$$) from others.


.

[idahoron]

I use Bore butter and I use Hornady Great Plains lube. I only use them on my wool felt over powder wads. I add just enough lube to keep the wad from coming out on fire. I don't see any accuracy improvement between the two. Like I said It is just there for fire retardant.

[jjarrell]

I like mink oil. It has no odor if it's pure. It cleans up easily and doesn't gum up the bore. It loads with less effort than Bore Butter and I also think it's much slicker and protects against rust better than Bore Butter. I used Bore Butter for 20 years without complaint. Then I tried mink oil about 7 years ago and haven't used anything else since. Mostly because my groups tightened up quite a bit with mink oil.

[waksupi]

And what is so terribly wrong with animal fat such as sperm oil, bear tallow, or heaven forbid hog tallow, would that be lard or, Crisco??
The simple truth is that for something as low & slow as a muzzle loader, it doesn't need any technology grease to work.
Tallow, beeswax, all those work fine.
Besides, who has ever needed multiple shots in the woods when deer hunting, ??
If you miss with the 1st shot, the deer is already spooked and long gone.
The story about needing 4 or 5 shots deer hunting doesn't hold water with me.

I did a lot of testing years ago, with as many lubes as I could come up with. The animal lubes tended to produce smouldering patches, definitely not good in the mountains. The sperm whale oil would foul my bore in about five rounds. Fine for the old time use of a hunting patch lube, but not a great range lube. Goop hand cleaner (no grit type) was a very good lube. Vaseline hand lotion was kind of middle of the road, bore fouling after around a dozen shots. Bore Butter fouled the bore in under ten shots. In cold weather, impossible to load after three shots.
Best lube was Moose Milk, that I use to this day, followed by plain ol' spit, as it is cheap, always with you, and works effectively.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

moose milk though isn't something you can leave loaded for a hunt. It dries out much to fast and is water based. When I think of patch lubes, I am thinking of long term hunting use.

On the range, lots of stuff will work pretty darn good.

[Dryball]

Very interesting thread. I use mink oil with a touch of oil of wintergreen for the smell. Maven, the coconut oil thing is interesting. Have you tested its migration into the powder over time? This would be less expensive than mink oil (which has shot the same after being loaded for over a year).

[Maven]

Dryball, I used it as a patch lube during a woods walk two weeks ago, so there was little waiting between shots as we had a small turn out. I should mention, it was at least 90 deg. F out with high humidity. Funny thing, I've had a jar of the stuff for years and got the idea to use it to lube my patches: wouldn't you know it a day later someone posted how terrible it was on the ALR Forum?! Although I dry swabbed the bore after every 5 shots, I didn't really need to as starting/seating the patched RB was easy...as easy as when using wet patches. Accuracy was excellent, or rather the same as I got when using wet (1 Ballistol : 6 H20) patches.

[waksupi]

moose milk though isn't something you can leave loaded for a hunt. It dries out much to fast and is water based. When I think of patch lubes, I am thinking of long term hunting use.

On the range, lots of stuff will work pretty darn good.

For hunting, lube your patches with Moose Milk, then let them dry. Dutch Schultz' method, works great. Follow up shot patch can be spit on to slick it up if needed.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

This thread has been very informative for me...Yes, I believed the myth about bore seasoning til an hour ago. I've always used Bear grease...Might be time to try something else.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

bought and tried that dutch method. Not a good patch lube for the hunter as I almost gave myself a hernia trying to get one of those dry patch lubed deals down the bore after a single shot. My eyes bugged out of my head like Rodney Dangerfield! LOL

[waksupi]

bought and tried that dutch method. Not a good patch lube for the hunter as I almost gave myself a hernia trying to get one of those dry patch lubed deals down the bore after a single shot. My eyes bugged out of my head like Rodney Dangerfield! LOL

That's why I said you would possibly have to spit on the follow up patch to load. I believe Dutch also mentioned that, if not in his pamphlet, then in some other correspondence to me.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

no, while hunting, I dont want spit or water near in my bore. I have a 9 day season and that doesn't mix well in the end.

[quilbilly]

I am also fascinated by the use of coconut oil as a patch lube for hunting. I use both coconut oil and olive oil for cooking because it doesn't burn as readily. A little olive oil with the coconut oil might thin it just enough to be useable in winter. I will have to think on this a bit. If it doesn't work it will make great popcorn.

[Black Powder Bill]

I've read an article similar to this some years back. Also use to talk about all the lubes after a shoot around the camp fire. I use a water based cutting fluid. Works for competition work very well. The rest of the grease and seasoning stories IMO are all myth!
Then we have LeHigh Valley pee in a bottle. LOL

[Smoke4320]

Spotted Owl oil works for me :):)

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

lehigh valley pee! Thats a good one!

[kens]

I for one don't like animal fats as they can go rancid.

If your animal fats are going rancid, when was the last time you cleaned your gun?? :kidding:

[OverMax]

Lately with all these new automotive super lubricants having the ability to saturate into most if not all engine metals. I've been considering coating/soaking a 54 cal bore with Z-Max Engine Lubricant. If Z-Max actually reduces friction as advertised no doubt it no longer pays too use a patching lube containing wax. I hoping Z-Max will also reduce barrel fouling .. Hello diluted Ballistol or Shenandoh Valley Patch Lubricants.
Would also change my usual barrel cleaning technique by no longer using a detergent cleaner. Only a non-detergent barrel cleaner so's not to flush the Z-Max out.
Although barrel seasoning is a myth. Z-Max may change that antiquated thinking.

[Dryball]

I think the coconut oil would be fine by itself in the cold as it melts with just body heat. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to put a "cookie of wax paper" in between the powder and the patch/ball to mitigate lube migration...

[waksupi]

no, while hunting, I dont want spit or water near in my bore. I have a 9 day season and that doesn't mix well in the end.

The assumption is you have already shot, hit an animal, and are reloading in case a follow up shot is needed. Always reload immediately. I leave a load in the rifle all season with a dried moose milk patch with no problems. Our season is a lot longer than 9 days. If you want to hunt all the shoulder seasons, you have at least five months to hunt during the winter.

[omgb]

I have used many lubes. The best was called White Lightening. Now days I make my own with bees wax, olive oil, lanolin and a chunk of crayon for red color. It works well here in the SoCal desert and it's cheap. I clean with soap and water and then oil with RemOil. On a long day's shoot at the range I'll swab the bore when loading gets tough using a 50/50 mix of engine coolant and distilled water. I get zero rust issues and it cuts the crud.

[fiberoptik]

Recipes! Recipes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rfd]

My Gatofeo's #1 hasn't gone rancid and it's been well over two years when I last made it.

Uses mutton tallow as a bit more than a 1/3 by weight...

love the gatofeo for bpcr gg lube or ppb lube cookie, as well as an excellent ml patch lube. mutton tallow will not go rancid. rubbed into a patch strip it works quite well as a shoot-all-day ml lube, better yet if melted into that strip with a heat gun/hair dryer.

or, just use a spit patch for in-the-moment shooting. :)

[rfd]

Recipes! Recipes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GATOFEO LUBE
******************

by weight ...

1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works, online)
1 part canning wax (gulf wax, online)
1/2 part beeswax (clean, no bug parts please)

the resulting lube is soft enuf to rub into a maxie or onto a patch strip. add more beeswax to make harder for hotter weather (IF need be, but probably not needed unless yer in the southwest @ 115* :) ).

double boiler mix up and pour into whatever (milk carton, muffin tins, etc)