Throwing your Ramrod onto the ball

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Tried this out today but first I loaded it normally and with my upper body weight, leaned into the ramrod as usual to compress the powder. This works out roughly to around 70lbs of pressure on top of the ball.

The only mark on the face of the ball is from my short starter.
http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditional/Snapshot000000.jpg

Next I did lifted the ramrod 12" off the charge and in the way of throwing darts, dropped it down the bore with some force behind it The old theory is that if the ramrod bounced, the ball was fully seated. I've tested this (Some years ago) with a ball 3/4 of the way down the barrel, completely aware it was no where close to being seated and guess what? It bounced! Where this theory came up, we'll never know.

Bouncing the ramrod to seat the ball consistently on the powder charge certainly is unattainable because there's not enough weight in the ramrod to seat a patched ball, nor is there any consistency because you are throwing it down the barrel with an unknown, inconsistent, pressure with your hand.

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditional/Snapshot000003.jpg

And in end, all we did was turn a round ball, into an off balanced semi wad cutter ball. Here's the same picture, only color adjusted to show the damage.
http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditional/Snapshot000002.jpg

[JWFilips]

Geeze! Seat the ball like it has been done for 200 + years! A firm push on the rod feeling it all the way

[RoyEllis]

If you're only here to make adversarial posts such as this, an obviously a thinly veiled attack towards a video of 2 other members.....perhaps you'd be far more comfortable back on your own forum that you advertise via signature line. Maybe it's just me but you seem to be dancing on the thin line of violating Cast Boolits T.O.S.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

No arguing at all. Just showing you guys the difference of a nicely seated ball VS an abused ball.

Not a whole lot going on here so if you can't offer anything to post and show, that's your problem. I on the other hand had some stuff to show today.

Im getting ready for a bear hunt and decided since the rifle was clean, lets see what it looks like after ramming that ball like a 1950's walt disney movie :-D

[waksupi]

Nothing wrong with showing the damage that can be done from careless loading practices.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I got a real neat range rod to do some testing with next time I am out on the range. It has a charge height indicator which shows you if you are on the powder charge or not. This will be a neat and easy way to seat the ball 1" above the powder, throw the ramrod down and check with the range rod to see if it even moved. This will simulate a crud ring thats catching the ball up in the bore.

[Old Iron]

I got a real neat range rod to do some testing with next time I am out on the range. It has a charge height indicator which shows you if you are on the powder charge or not. This will be a neat and easy way to seat the ball 1" above the powder, throw the ramrod down and check with the range rod to see if it even moved. This will simulate a crud ring thats catching the ball up in the bore.
A simple "mark" on your ramrod would serve the same purpose.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

You'll see why the range rod will be better when I take some pictures.

[OnHoPr]

I think it is a good post. If a number of newer shooters see it they may try different loading procedures which may enhance their accuracy which might have a more ethical effect on a deer shot at. Maybe you should have SEOed the title a little better for that purpose.

Yea, that is what I was taught back in the '80s with my new Traditions 50 cal sidelock. I learned a few things in the next couple of years. Then in late '90s all guns/bows/tools stolen, so I ended up with a TC Encore 209. I still had the mold so I cast and shot balls out of it. A PRB will shoot good out of a 1:28 twist, it just takes a bit more fidgeting.

175400

Here are my Lee .490s. If you notice the one upper center with the starter ring on it. That is just about all the damage that happens to it on loading, maybe a touch more pushing it down the barrel. Then just a gentle firm push onto the powder to know that it is seated. They shoot fairly decent on a good day. Then somedays they curve like heck, but I found out why when I looked into the mirror wondering when I found out, I had Marty Feldman eyes that day.

Since the Encore is an inline with faster twist the Lee 240 gr and a Harvester sabot goes in it most of the time for general purpose hunting since it gives quite a bit more range.

[bubba.50]

yer message may well be a good one worth hearin'. but yer smug, belittlin', condescendin' way of presentin' it as "the only way" and "how ignorant you people have been all yer lives" can be off-puttin' to some. not me 'cause I grew a lot of tough hide at an early age.

not sayin' that's how ya meant it, just sayin' that's how it comes across to some.

[Omnivore]

I've noticed the difference between what all the manuals say, and the fact that so many people use the ramrod as a hammer. By the way; a relatively lightweight "hammer" can easily apply hundreds of pounds of peak pressure, so your technical description there is lacking. How heavy is that ball and with how much force does it strike it's target? It's all about velocity.

Is it just me or do the before and the after photos of the ball look the same? They look the same to me.

Don't forget the shape of the ram rod tip. If it doesn't fit the shape of the projectile, then you're certainly re-shaping the projectile, no matter which method you use, unless it goes down with very little pressure. On the other hand, who says there is an ideal projectile nose shape?

We who load cap and ball revolvers, or metal cartridges, or we who size lead bullets, using a seating plunger or top punch that doesn't match the shape of the bullet, know very well that the bullets aren't shaped the same after seating, because we can easily see them.

I re-shaped three percussion revolvers' loading plungers for flat nose bullets, and so of course when I load round ball with that plunger they always end up as flat points. They still shoot OK though. Who says a flat nose round ball is a bad projectile?

Shoot any bullet shape you want, but understand that you're re-shaping it upon seating unless the seater matches the shape exactly. Then again if you're hitting your targets with the desired effect, who cares about any of this?

Anyway, I though the main idea was to get consistent compression of the load, from shot to shot.

[Omnivore]

I might add that a guy I've come to know on line (he runs the capandball channel on YouTube) loads his rifles by tossing the ram rod. His military rifle team just won the MLAIC championship.

Also, some of the steel ramrods are very small in diameter, with a threaded end which you can't shove on without injuring yourself, and the seating tulip at the business end. The issue ram rod in a Remington Zoave comes to mind, since I have one of those. If you're using it as issued, I believe you have little choice but to use the rod as a hammer. I'd be leery even of using a wooden short starter as a ball end for shoving on, with the rod being as pointy as it is. Does anyone know if these thin steel military rods came with some kind of hand protector to use in the shoving process, or was everyone expected to use the rod as a hammer?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

The difference is very obvious in the pictures.

How much difference in accuracy, we won't know that until I do some shooting, but one thing is for certain. It does not seat the ball any harder on top of the charge, especially when one has to lean into the ramrod to get it down the bore with a tight patch combo.

Thats the main point here. Bouncing the ramrod on top of the projectile.

[Dryball]

concerning loading pressure, didn't someone make a ramrod or device that measured pressure so you could compress your powder with consistency?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

yeah that would be the muzzleloaders precision packer.

[rfd]

thank you for schooling me yet again, jon, in your both thinking and ways of seating a patched ball. however, i'm gonna continue to stoopdily bounce my concave hickory tipped ramrod so there's no need for you to waste yer time scolding me any more because clearly i'm as dumb@$$ as they come for not seeing the light of the images you've posted, nor the wisdom of yer superior thought process. i'm sorry that i'm just an old fogey what don't know sh!te from shinola and just too set in my old and thoroughly inaccurate muzzleloading ways.

[JSnover]

Why not wait for some accuracy testing before getting our skivvies all knotted up?
I don't know if it was the heat or what, but it seems like a lot of CB members were in a foul mood this weekend.

[historicfirearms]

The first and second photos look very similar to me. Even the shape of the casting void are identical and in the same orientation on top of the ball. The patch looks different, so it's not the exact same picture, but that is odd that the casting flaw would look identical.

When I was shooting a lot of muzzleloaders, I had better accuracy by bouncing the rod on the ball a few times. I think the reason was I got more consistent powder compression and hence more consistent ignition. I'm sure it damages the projectile more, but the accuracy was still better for me.

[bedbugbilly]

I have no dog in this fight . . but am scratching my head over why anyone would feel the need to bounce a wood ramrod on a patched round ball after seating? First of all, there isn't enough weight in a wood ramrod to do much of anything when it is bounced. If your are worried about the ball being seated where it needs to be . then do what's been done by many for may years . . . mark your ramrod to show the ball is fully seated. Using more than one charge size . . .then mark your ram rod for each charge . . . or your range rod . . whatever.

The only time that a ramrod would possibly be needed to be "bounced" is when shooting such long guns as rifled muskets . . which shoot a minie ball and have a metal ramrod. I have shot literally thousands of rounds down rifled muskets and it has always been a common practice to seat the minie and then bounce the metal ramrod. In such shooting as N-SSA, it is common practice as you are shooting timed relays and shooting multiple rounds in quick order - thus fouling build up in your bore so you do it to make sure your minie is seated tight.

On a patched round ball rifle . . . and every rifle is different . . . most will run a spit patch or similar down between shots to keep the fouling build up to a minimum . . .thus making it easier to get the next patched ball down the barrel in a smooth and easy fashion. If you are taking a quick "second shot" and it's a little tough to get the patched ball down, yes, you sometimes have to use some quick up and down movements on the ramrod when ramming home . . we've all done that. But as already mentioned . . . and it's common sense . . . do it the way it was done for the past 200 plus years - a smooth downward movement on the ramrod until you feel the ball seated and then move on.

Everyone has their own "thing" . . and I guess if you feel better about bouncing the ramrod . . . then go to it . . . but it's not necessary and if anything, it's a "Hollywood notion". But as is often said . . "some folks make great efforts to complicate the obvious". The key is to be "consistent" when you load and to seat it firmly on the charge.

As far as "misshapen" balls from bouncing the ramrod . . . today's muzzleloading shooters look at things in a whole different light than our ancestors did. They are so wrapped up about "accuracy" and how every little thing might affect it, that they forget about the tradition of muzzle-loading shooting. Some worry about making sure each powder load is exactly the same as the previous . . each ball weighs exactly the same . . .in fact . . each ball is perfectly round. That's fine if that is "your thing". However . . . and I'm not being critical of anyone on this . just remember that for those that are more on the "traditional" side . . . most of the balls shot by our ancestors were cast with a "bag mold". Sprues were cut with the cutter on the handle and were pretty "rustic" to say the least. Yet they worked just fine for them whether they were shooting to kill game or shooting in a friendly "match". In essence, I doubt very much that any "damage" to a round ball that has had somebody "bounce" the ramrod on it is going to affect accuracy anymore than a dimple put on it by a short starter.

Many years ago, I used to sit and watch a particular shooter on the line down at Friendship shoot a half stock percussion rifle. He was strictly a "target shooter". He had a wood mallet that looked like a custom turned gavel. His ball was so tightly patched that he never was able to push it down the barrel with a easy movement of the arm . from the time he placed the ball on the patch on the muzzle, he used a mallet . . to seat it in the muzzle, to hit a shot starter . and then to hit the range rod he used to seat the ball. Some of us watching him usually ended up in a discussion about it as we watched hi shoot He was an O.K. shooter but nothing that ever allowed him to place. One time, I asked him why he used a mallet and his reply was that to get good accuracy, you needed a tightly patched ball. I let it go at that. I often wondered if he ever thought about the damage he was doing to the ball while he was whacking on it and what it looked like by the time he got it seated.

In the end, everyone has their "own way" . . . but while we think we have greater technology and can come up with "new ways" to do things . . . . we have a lot to learn from our ancestors who maybe didn't have all the technology, but they learned by experience. My grandfather that I remember very well . . . and he was born in 1867 . . . had a half-stock Plains style rifle in 45 caliber. He cast his balls from a bag mold - kept them in a little leather sack along with a tin of caps. His patches were kept in the patch box - the rifle still has some in it and they appear to have been greased with probably mutton tallow as he raised sheep. His powder he kept in a small glass jar that that once held Marishino cherries (sp!) that he kept in his pocket. Pretty low tech . . . but from stories I've heard, he had no problem hitting what he was aiming including a dog at well over a 150 yards away from his back porch which was getting in to his sheep and killing lambs. I highly doubt he worried about all of this stuff.

[curator]

Would ball damage be less or none if the short starter and ramrod's face matched the curve of the ball? I have always made my own short starters with the working faces exactly matching the curve of the ball. This allowed me to use very tight ball/patch combinations for better accuracy without deforming the ball in the loading process. I also ground the ramrod tip as well and used a range rod as large in diameter as smoothly slid down the bore. When I was really serious about loading compression, I brought a bathroom scale to the range and placed the butt of my rifle on it when seating the ball, applying 30 pounds pressure. On the few occasions where I used a CO2 ball discharger to unload the gun, the balls so loaded were near perfect, only showing a ring where the patch was compressed in the rifling, and no damage to the face except a rounding of the sprue.

[johnson1942]

pressure on the powder through the ball is very important as ft per second coming out of the muzzle. if compressed differently every round, every round will shoot a little different in ft per second coming out of the muzzle. that affects accuracy. as to seasoning a barrel, never bought it. a clean barrel is what i strive for. if you want it to load easier. 2 thousands laps with a tight patch on a good roatating rod with jewelers polishing powder on the patch. it will load easier. what is up on castboolits with the cranky people? i can see it in the pit but the muzzleloading area? we just share info here.

[waksupi]

concerning loading pressure, didn't someone make a ramrod or device that measured pressure so you could compress your powder with consistency?

I remember Sam Fadala did an article in the old "Buckskin Report" about using a scale to measure loading pressures, but I can't remember the results, and don't have time to look it up.

It just is common sense that eliminating damage to the nose of the projectile "should" give better accuracy. I realize that while saying that, it has been proven with bullets that damaged noses cause negligible effect. Still, of it can be avoided, why not do so?
Being a flintlock shooter, I am against over compacting the charge on the grounds that a flinter will tend to fire more efficiently if the powder grains are not packed too closely together.

[dondiego]

I was told early on not to bounce my ramrod but here I am reading a lot of differences in opinion. I am anxiously awaiting a detailed side by side range comparison...........or a shooting match!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Just to clear things up guys, no one ( Not even I ) am angry or in a foul mood. I like to do little tests like this and get down to it.

For those that can not see the difference, here's what I am pointing out,

Notice the thin silver line caused by my short starter? Arrow points to this,
http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditional/Snapshot000000_1.jpg

Next, after bouncing the ramrod, We have a thick walled nose on the ball that has turned it into a wad cutter.
http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditional/Snapshot000002_1.jpg

[johnson1942]

i really believe why some can shoot pyrodex accurately and others cant is this. it is very very spongy and easily compressed. those who load it with a even pressure on the bullet shoot better with it. those who compact it and different pressures dont shoot so accurate with it. as it goes with black powder and all the rest of the powders.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Actually I shoot a lot of pyrodex and RS-Select likes compression while Pyrodex P does not like as much.

Some with flinters seat the ball until it just touches the powder. I fully seat the ball and compress it as I do with Pyrodex RS and other brands of 2fg black powder. Instant ignition.

Its just figuring out what your rifle likes thats the tricky part.

[Squeeze]

http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/images/smilies/new/bounce.gif [smilie=1: I never understood the bouncy thing either.

[OnHoPr]

I think this is the time the Remington Golden Balls are needed. Maybe get a .490 mold and copper plate them a few thousands and go with a thinner patch. Use WDWWs.

[dualsport]

I think it is a good post. If a number of newer shooters see it they may try different loading procedures which may enhance their accuracy which might have a more ethical effect on a deer shot at. Maybe you should have SEOed the title a little better for that purpose.

Yea, that is what I was taught back in the '80s with my new Traditions 50 cal sidelock. I learned a few things in the next couple of years. Then in late '90s all guns/bows/tools stolen, so I ended up with a TC Encore 209. I still had the mold so I cast and shot balls out of it. A PRB will shoot good out of a 1:28 twist, it just takes a bit more fidgeting.

175400

Here are my Lee .490s. If you notice the one upper center with the starter ring on it. That is just about all the damage that happens to it on loading, maybe a touch more pushing it down the barrel. Then just a gentle firm push onto the powder to know that it is seated. They shoot fairly decent on a good day. Then somedays they curve like heck, but I found out why when I looked into the mirror wondering when I found out, I had Marty Feldman eyes that day.

Since the Encore is an inline with faster twist the Lee 240 gr and a Harvester sabot goes in it most of the time for general purpose hunting since it gives quite a bit more range.
More about that roundball load in the 28" twist please? I have one too.

[Maven]

"I remember Sam Fadala did an article in the old "Buckskin Report" about using a scale to measure loading pressures, but I can't remember the results, and don't have time to look it up." ...waksupi

Fadala also wrote about it in one of his BP Handbooks. He claimed consistent and repeatable pressure improved results. Oddly enough, N & W Rods of Philipsburg, PA, manufactured just such a rod. That idea was later embodied/bought by Ka-Dooty, which promoted it as something the U.S. Shooting Team used. I'd like to cite chapter & verse on this, but I can't find my copy of Fadala's ca. 1989 BP Handbook.:oops:

[jcwit]

Anyone see the winners at the Nationals bounce the ramrod while seating their ball?

Just wondering????????????

[montana_charlie]

It has been my understanding that the 'bounce the ramrod on the bullet practice' was adopted to open up the bottom of a Minie ball a bit when loading it ... enough to prevent it sliding out of the barrel before being fired.
Because that bullet was mainly used in volley fire at relatively close range, any 'redesign' of the bullet was unlikely to have a noticeable effect on the field.

I doubt that any 'rifleman' shooting patched round ball at a single target would see any benefit in the practice.

As for the pictures ... the thing that strikes me is that the sprue is not centered in the bore on any of those loads.
If you are going to shoot a wobbly ball anyway, it probably doesn't matter much how badly you beat it up when loading.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Thats one load shown in the picture. I use a 9mm bore camera so it looks off center a bit and im sure it is, but no where near enough to throw it off balance.

[waksupi]

It has been my understanding that the 'bounce the ramrod on the bullet practice' was adopted to open up the bottom of a Minie ball a bit when loading it ... enough to prevent it sliding out of the barrel before being fired.
Because that bullet was mainly used in volley fire at relatively close range, any 'redesign' of the bullet was unlikely to have a noticeable effect on the field.



I could buy that explanation, but never having fired Minies, I would just be back to gut feeling again.

[Black Powder Bill]

Yep seen it done and I have never done it! Throwing the ram rod down 3,4,5 times . LOL waste of energy. Push it down even steady gets the job done. Consistency is the key. I know guys who weight each ball, size a Minnie then beat them near to death once they hit the muzzle.

Note to the OP. Get yourself to a WHOLE bunch of shoots. Then sit back and watch, listen and you'll have all your questions & answers .

[OnHoPr]

More about that roundball load in the 28" twist please? I have one too.



A PRB will shoot good out of a 1:28 twist, it just takes a bit more fidgeting.

Maybe, I should have said a whole bunch of shooting.

First of all, I think the mzldr is just like a centerfire or slug gun when it comes to accuracy. All barrels are different. Another thing to point out is "My Style" compared to the various other styles is different. I got into mzldr back in the '80s to kill deer, because I hunted the Huron NF which is the closest vast NF to Detroit & Flint (hey crazies). This means after the first few Viet Nam days of season deer were still well in their noctural mode through December when our Mzldr season started. I first started with a Traditions P cap and went to the Encore about 2000. So, I never got into the Frontiersmen Trad walks and such with flintlocks. I tried to push a boolit as fast and as accurate as I could. I have tried the PBR with 150 gr of powder.

Tell you the truth I can't even remember the load exactly. But, I think it was a .018 round pillow ticking patch lubed decent with Precision Lube 2000 wrapped around a Lee ball on top of 100 gr of PDex Select ignited by a ??? No. 57, 109, 209 or something primer. But, I did a whole lot of shooting besides the normal go to the range and try this and that. I shot from after the first or second coffee in the morning to "well its getting dark" for two days on my own range so to speak.

I can't even remember all the components tested, but I will give a vague list, it was 5,6,7 years ago.

-Two different patches .015 and .018 round pillow ticking
-Four or Five lubes - Precision Lube 2000, TC maxi lube, TC Bore Butter (the green smelling stuff), TC no. 13, and I think some other concoction.
-Three different Balls - the Lee .490, Speer .490, and the Hornady .490 they are all different and will definitely shoot different. The Lees will shoot different if you tumble them
- Four Powders - PDex Select, 777, American Powder, Shockley's Gold from drop ranges from 80 to 150 gr. Though, it seemed like just about anything much pass a 100 gr and groups opened up quite a bit with any components tested. But, that doesn't mean I tried everything on the market or history of BP .

Three shot groups were fired from a bench with lead sled and 9 power scope @ 50 yds. All shots were pre wet dry patch swabbed. 5 gr increments were used on the powder charges. Sometimes I would move in 10 gr increments depending on the group characteristics. Balls were started, pushed down, and seated carefully and to trying same consistent pressure whether it was just gently firm on the powder or just a little bit firmer on the seat, nothing Hulk style or bouncing. You know something like a 15 lb seat or a 40 lb seat, maybe a little less than that. So, just think of all the combo loads you can come up with and powder charges and pressure seats with the above components. Promising groups were shot again with 5 shot groups. A lot of groups even with plus 100 gr of powder would shoot 2 - 4" @ 50 yds, enough for a broadside shot on a feed pile. There were less groups from 1 - 2". There were groups with the higher charges that would not even hit a wide piece of freezer paper target material. But, there were a couple and the one I mentioned above that would make one ragged hole. There is more that will shoot decent with the 50 or 60 grs of plinking powder which should still kill a deer on a feed pile. But, in all around circumstances with the round ball as well as the foster type slug if you going to shoot at a woods guesstimate 100 yd shot that may actually be 117 yds speed helps in the November winds.

Tedious and not very interesting most of the time. Not like going to a woods walk and just having fun shooting the PRB with a little fun competition and BSin with the attendees.

Sorry about the hijack or off topic

[Black Powder Bill]

$79.00 inline from china mart. Ken Schultz past President new yorkisstan ML association took a cheap inline out of the plastic. Cleaned the oil out of the bore and breech plug, fired a cap, loaded with 2f goex and in less than 15 mins was hitting X's at 25 yards.
Think he was shooting his cast balls. Powder around 40-50 grains. Patches were what ever he used for his everyday rb loads.

I have a knight inline from 1993 54 cal. rmef 8 of 100.

530 rb 15ths patch 80 grains of powder will bust a clay target at 100 yards.

I tell customers to take there pellets from the previous year and shoot rb with them. load one pellet, seat the ball and shoot away. use Kentucky wind`age to bring the ball up if needed.

Remove all distractions from your brain.

don't worry about voids in the balls, them being a grain or two off mfg suggested weight, the sprue to long or short. You don't need a horse hoof rasp, the guy on TV his powder is a gimmick, nice label and all.

In fact stay off the internet for a good week then go shoot.

Load and shoot start with half your typical powder charge.

[BigMagShooter]

if I had to guess where the 'throw the ram rod" came from it would be the civil war era.

loose mini balls needed to be seated to the powder and the quickest way to do it would be to throw the rod into the barrel shoving the mini ball to the powder and then quickly capping to shoot. remember, you're being shot at and the faster you load the more you shoot....

[barnabus]

How in the world did u decipher that from his post?Dont be so defensive.i always thought bouncing a rod on a ball was stupid in hopes of seating it consistently.Now Im positive it is.



If you're only here to make adversarial posts such as this, an obviously a thinly veiled attack towards a video of 2 other members.....perhaps you'd be far more comfortable back on your own forum that you advertise via signature line. Maybe it's just me but you seem to be dancing on the thin line of violating Cast Boolits T.O.S.

[Tatume]

There used to be a device called a "KaDooty" that was advertised to put uniform pressure on the ball when seating. I've never seen one, as it appears they went out of business before I had a chance.

[Maven]

Tatume, Here's a link with a pic, but the 1st item in my Google search also has a review if you're interested: https://www.gunsamerica.com/925371540/KaDooty-Ultimate-Muzzleloader-s-Tool.htm Btw, the Ka Dooty was outrageously expensive and mostly unnecessary as one could learn to exert consistent pressure with either a range rod or the one that came with the gun.

[Lead Fred]

For those of you still using wooden ramrods

http://www.periodramrod.com/

Inlines are for those hunters that just have to kill more deer. They are as far away from muzzle loading as you can get.

Oh yeah, you short starter does more damage when you pop the ball down, than a wooden ramrod ever will.
Most make their own balls, and they all have spue marks on them, that are put in the same spot your short stater and ramrod hit.
I do not, nor have I ever bounced my ramrod off the ball. It s just another thing folks do, like blowing down your barrel so te smoke comes out the flash hole. Which I do do, because its fun.

[Black Powder Bill]

if I had to guess where the 'throw the ram rod" came from it would be the civil war era.

loose mini balls needed to be seated to the powder and the quickest way to do it would be to throw the rod into the barrel shoving the mini ball to the powder and then quickly capping to shoot. remember, you're being shot at and the faster you load the more you shoot....

YEA makes sense , but not 4 or 5 times on the range. LOL

I'm missing the OP's intent on the picture of the damaged unbalanced RB and how it effects accuracy? Because I've shot some pretty iffy RB messing around and they always amazed me at how accurate they were.
You have a nick in a lead RB.

Did you shoot it?
Did it hit the intended target?

If you are that worried about killing a bear with one RB, heck load 2 and shorten the shooting distance.

[Black Powder Bill]

concerning loading pressure, didn't someone make a ramrod or device that measured pressure so you could compress your powder with consistency?

Yes, I knew a few guys who had them.

That to me was another distraction. One more step in a simple process. I know some slug gun guys like to use the spring loaded pressure scale. If you do it and your winning then I don't say anything.

I used a short started and alight rubber hammer to start the ball on the range. My patch fit is tight. Once it is started the ball slides down like silk.

On a woods walk , I drop to a thinner patch and use my wood ram rod.

OR you can always "cone" your muzzle.:kidding:

[Black Powder Bill]

Tried this out today but first I loaded it normally and with my upper body weight, leaned into the ramrod as usual to compress the powder. This works out roughly to around 70lbs of pressure on top of the ball.


So how do you know it's appx 70 pounds of pressure?

[Black Powder Bill]

I got a real neat range rod to do some testing with next time I am out on the range. It has a charge height indicator which shows you if you are on the powder charge or not. This will be a neat and easy way to seat the ball 1" above the powder, throw the ramrod down and check with the range rod to see if it even moved. This will simulate a crud ring thats catching the ball up in the bore.

?? I've had a mark on all my ram rods for over 40 years. It's nice for a quick tell. Until you change your powder charge....or use that rod on another ML.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

So how do you know it's appx 70 pounds of pressure?
Because thats about all the upper body weight that I have that it takes to compress this,http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/FrontierMuzzleloading/Traditions%20Firearms/IMG_6835.jpg

This is my .58cal @ 100 yards with a horrible, HORRIBLE patch lube that smells like vaseline and offers no easy reloading unless the patch is completely slathered in lube which as I found out, removed my barrel bluing at the muzzle and partially down the sides of the barrel! The other 4 covered over holes were with FrogLube which is another bore butter rip off that sucks badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S12L8F5uPg

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

?? I've had a mark on all my ram rods for over 40 years. It's nice for a quick tell. Until you change your powder charge....or use that rod on another ML.

Ramrod mark is fine if you use that one and only load for life. Seating Pressure on top of powder VS seating to a certain mark however is not consistent.

Heres how that range rod works,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fTDFlz4Ah4

[Black Powder Bill]

A simple process made difficult. I suppose those who don't shoot much need these tools. I can load any of my ML's several times before the need to run a damp patch down to remover some crud. I was shooting practice target for the MLIAC and would fire 13 shots with out running a cleaning patch between shots.
When the clean shot powder first came out I went over 30 shots one day at a match and no cleaning. We kept waiting for the ball to jam up, never did.

However, I prefer when on the range I swab between each shot. It makes end of the day clean up a lot easier. I noticed when you tell us what your doing your leaving things out so we further question what you are doing. Do me a favor in the future, add a few more details in will ya. That way I can save myself some time following the crumbs to the end of the story.

Thanks for the video and the look at the ram rod!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Just showing the range rod. T7 pellets and 209 primers makes a nasty crud ring in those guns.

[Black Powder Bill]

Some time ago I noted the 209 primer was to hot for the inline pellets. The primer pushes the round before the pellet acctually burns. If a 209 primer can push 1-1/8 oz of shot out a 32" bbl! Then it can push the round offf the pellet before it is lit.

I know it all happens in a flash. IMO that split second causes a sliht gap which causes powder build up.

Especially using the new cleans up with only water powders. I have observed if you use loose powder the fouling Isn't as bad.

[cbashooter]

YEA makes sense , but not 4 or 5 times on the range. LOL

I'm missing the OP's intent on the picture of the damaged unbalanced RB and how it effects accuracy? Because I've shot some pretty iffy RB messing around and they always amazed me at how accurate they were.
You have a nick in a lead RB.

Did you shoot it?
Did it hit the intended target?

If you are that worried about killing a bear with one RB, heck load 2 and shorten the shooting distance.


I have a post down deep somewhere where i intentionally damaged round balls with a drill. I mean I drilled holes through them,drilled deep boles two and three and each side you name it. AT 50 yards in my 1 and 32 twist Lyman Great Plains the group sizes were nearly identical to the perfect weighed balls . We're talking an 1.5 to 2-inch group so within the Practical accuracy of the gun. I no longer weigh round balls when I cast them.