Duplicating factory loads

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

So for about several of my revolvers I have a 50 cal can full ammo for each gun, each with a corresponding Dillon tool head with powder measure set up. For example, I have a specific 45 acp load that I load A LOT of for my 625, and similarly a 38 special wadcutter load tuned to my model 15 that also shoots very well in my model 10 and Blackhawk.

The issue, if you can call it that, is that I don't have time to work up a load for each and every gun nor do I have the interest in keeping that many different loads separate and marked.

Here is the best example - 9mm:
I know that all of my 9mm pistols shoot cast boolits well enough - if they don't they go bye bye, but I don't shoot any one of them enough to load a whole can full for each, or to take the time to develop a load for each, so I am currently developing a load that shoots well enough for plinking/practice/fun for all of them, an NOE 358-121-RN (356242 clone) over a powder and load to be determined (probably for grains of bullseye).

I have the same situation with 380 acp. And that is next up. Probably the 90 grain 358242 over 2.8 grains of bullseye.

Do any of my you have any good general purpose loads that you keep around to shoot in the guns you don't shoot enough to load ammo specifically for?

[Tackleberry41]

Some stuff I dont put a whole lot of effort into working up a load. Some basic 38 spcl, using the Lee TL 158 gr. Yea I ran them over a chrony, so I knew what it was, and between a short and long barreled gun. But that was the extent of it, they work, no need to do anymore. Made a couple 50 rd boxes so I had some to waste if the need came up.

As for duplicating factory, not been impressed with most factory ammo. I bought some basic 230gr FMJ 45 ACP not long ago. None came close to the usual you expect of 830FPS or so, and had a wide ES of over 100fps.

[Kraschenbirn]

First issue would be to determine WHICH factory load you're aiming to duplicate. I rarely load 9mm because, these days, I own only one gun in that caliber and I keep it more because of sentiment than any real intrinsic value. Back when I did shoot a lot of 9x19, I chrono'd a number of different factory loads and found about the only thing consistent among them was that NONE met their published velocity/accuracy data in ANY of my guns.

Bill

[dverna]

NS,

Ignore some of the comments.

Like you, I am not going to make up a special load for every pistol of the same caliber. Most of the shooting we do is practice or plinking. There is no need for 1" groups at 50 yards and most of those reports are questionable anyway. Heck, most rifles cannot do that.

Almost all my pistol ammo is made on a Dillon 1050. I have four 9mm pistols. I use the Dardas 9mm bullet (122 gr I think) for them all. Either, HP 38 or Clays for powder. In the .38 Spl/.357 I have 5 guns. They all shoot the 130 gr Mastercast. Again with HP 38, or Clays.

I am am going to switch to Promo for my blasting ammo as I have 8 jugs of it.

My process is to find a load for the 9 mm guns that will cycle every gun every time. That load will always be below the max.

For the .38, I find a load that has good accuracy (under 4 MOA) in both of the rifles. That becomes the load for the pistols as well. Again those loads are nowhere near max.

[Boogieman]

In my gun BE86 will duplicate 230gr. hardball , 6gr. under a Lyman # 452374 230gr. RN. 828fps. 40fps ES. 15.7 SD. This load is under Alliant max. It was loaded in mixed ,well used cases ,the cause for the large ES.

[odfairfaxsub]

Power pistol or be 86 are some of the best powders for all gunloads but they may not do what we call....become the perfected load for a gun. I try to perfect loads for all my guns. My dad just loads to the middle of data and leaves it alone. My guns may like bulleye they may like unique, they may like wsf, they may like red dot. Sometimes
tgey shoot better w only one powder, some shoot well w 2. I think you owe it to yourself to find out what the gun shoots best.......it's really the only reason to reload sometimes because anyone can pick the middle and load it.....but 98 percent of U.S. Want something better than something that compares to a box of white Winchester box

[Boogieman]

Bullet fit & uniformity in loading affect accuracy more than powder type.

[dragon813gt]

Yes, I have universal loads that will work in all guns chambered for the same cartridge. They are generally not the most accurate across all of the guns. Some will shoot better than others. But the same can be said for the accuracy loads I load for each gun. It may be the most accurate in one but won't be in another one.

I'm talking strictly for handguns. Each rifle has it's own loads even if they are chambered for the same cartridge. I don't shoot handguns at long ranges often so accuracy differences are fairly negligible.

[Earlwb]

Well first you need to look at what factory round you want to duplicate. Bullet weight, muzzle velocity being of interest. Then you break out the Lyman Reloading Manual and check out what powders and loads they use for that weight bullet. You can pretty well figure out what load would work from the book. Then load up ten rounds for test purposes and try it out in your gun. Do not use the maximum loads. Generally something middle of the road works. Using a chronograph is a excellent way to check the load and the muzzle velocity out. If it is a little low in speed, you can add a little more propellant then try it again.

Now then duplicating factory ammo loads is pretty hard to do. The brand cartridges that a factory makes tends to use bulk propellant that you cannot buy. The bullets they use may not be available for us to buy too. The primer they use may be different from what we can get as well. So you have to use a different propellant and similar bullet, etc. So you will be off at first in working up a load.

Someone providing a propellant, bullet type, primer type isn't a bad starting point. But you may not be able to buy the same propellant as the lot may be different and made in a different batch from what the other guy uses. Most books use Federal primers and those tend to be unobtanium lately. So you have to use a different primer. You may not be able to get the same bullet the other guy uses too. So you will very likely be stuck in working up your load for your gun anyway.

I have watched some of the guys at the store checking the lot numbers or batch numbers for everything. They are ensuring that the propellants are all from the same lot. The guys do the same thing with the factory ammo too. They check the lot or batch numbers out carefully to ensure that all the ammo they buy is from the same lot. Different lots of ammo can have different characteristics on the range. Your point of aim can be off from one lot to the next.

The handguns and rifles are different too. One gun may not shoot the same as another gun just like it, same brand and model even.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Clearly I choose a poor title - I am more interested in a discussion of a"universal" load per caliber, which I realize can be something of a unicorn. Which is what I meant by factory load, because factory loads, while they vary greatly in quality and accuracy, are
designed to function in as many guns as possible - which is what I am ultimately after - a load, for certain calibers, that will function fairly well in many different guns. Come on people, it isn't a complicated concept.

[tazman]

Which specific cartridges are you wanting data for?
Or are you looking for a discussion of many different cartridges?
I would be happy to give you the loads I use if I have any experience with that caliber.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Which specific cartridges are you wanting data for?
Or are you looking for a discussion of many different cartridges?
I would be happy to give you the loads I use if I have any experience with that caliber.

thank you sir, the 2 I first mentioned - 9mm and 380 acp - would be great

[Thumbcocker]

Loads that have worked for me in multiple handguns:
.44 Magnum- 22.0 h110 Noe 265 RNFP
.44 special 250 Keith 8.0 of power piwtol
.357 Noe or Lee 160 RNFP 4.5 red dot and 13.5 2400
9mm Lee 125 rnfp 4.8 to 5.0 power pistol
.45 acp Lyman 452460 5.8 of 231.

Still working on 9mm with red dot to get the price down a bit.

We are all big boys and girls here so standard disclaimers apply. I have shot the above loads in multiple guns with at least decent results. I practice out to 100 yards with handguns and those loads have worked at least passably well to that distance. all assuming proper sizing and decent guns with good dimensions and all that other stuff we discuss on this forum.

[tazman]

Can't help with the 380. Never owned one.
9mm
120-125 grain boolit------Bullseye 4.0 grains many guns will benefit from either a bit higher or lower charge, but this works.
CFE pistol 4.4 grains

130-135 grain boolit Bullseye 3.8 grains

147 grain boolit Bullseye 3.7 grains
CFE pistol 4.0

I have better accuracy with the heavier boolits in my pistols but the 120 grain tc boolits feed and function just fine in almost anything.
I have a S&W 929 eight shot revolver that dearly loves 3.2 grains of Bullseye under a 135 grain NOE 358-135 fn. Not certain if this would even function in a semi-auto.

[Hick]

Noctorunal

here's maybe another approach (which I have occasionally used). First I look up a typical factory round of a top name supplier on the internet. It won't tell you what powder they use, but it will tell you what grain bullet and what the 'typical' velocity is (fps). I'd argue that this may not shoot best in every pistol, but it could be considered a "universal" load. Then, I would go to my reloading manual and look at the powder choices for that same weight bullet and look to see how many grains of a powder I like will give about the same velocity as the factory round. That, I suggest, would work pretty good in all your pistols. It's not likely to match the factory round exactly, because of the differences in powder burn rates, lengths of test barrels, etc-- but it should be pretty good. Best of luck!

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Can't help with the 380. Never owned one.
9mm
120-125 grain boolit------Bullseye 4.0 grains many guns will benefit from either a bit higher or lower charge, but this works.
CFE pistol 4.4 grains

130-135 grain boolit Bullseye 3.8 grains

147 grain boolit Bullseye 3.7 grains
CFE pistol 4.0

I have better accuracy with the heavier boolits in my pistols but the 120 grain tc boolits feed and function just fine in almost anything.
I have a S&W 929 eight shot revolver that dearly loves 3.2 grains of Bullseye under a 135 grain NOE 358-135 fn. Not certain if this would even function in a semi-auto.

I have had my eyes on a 929 for quite some time, the perfect companion to the 625 - so I will have to remember that.

[tazman]

I have had my eyes on a 929 for quite some time, the perfect companion to the 625 - so I will have to remember that.

I wasn't thrilled with the price of the 929 but it certainly functions well and shoots as accurately as any revolver I own. It also gives me a use for the 9mm ammo I have remaining if I have to part with my Beretta 92fs for some reason. I don't care for loading all the moon clips but once loaded, they work great.

[JSnover]

Even the easy answers aren't necessarily that easy. Thumbcocker gave you a place to start but you may may still have to tweak the charge weights and COAL to get those to work across the board, so there will likely be some load development anyway.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Several good places you can start, "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters would be one, also some manuals have accuracy/hunting loads listed, Sierra and Nosler come to mind.

[rintinglen]

Some personal favs--not necessarily exact factory equivalents, but good, proven loads that work in multiple guns. These are the ones I reach for when I get a(nother) new gun.
380-Ranch dog 358-100TC 3.1 grains of WW-231
9mm-358-242 122 grn 4.2 grains WW-231 or 5.0 Power Pistol
38 Special H&G 50wc 142 grain 3.0 Bullseye
38 Special 359-640 158 grain 3.6 grains Bullseye
44 Special 429-421 6.9 grains Unique
45 Auto H&G 68 5.2 grns WW-231
44 mag 429-421 20 grns 2400

[Thumbcocker]

The old Lyman manuals listed potentially most accurate loads. I have found those to be a good starting place.

[robertbank]

So for about several of my revolvers I have a 50 cal can full ammo for each gun, each with a corresponding Dillon tool head with powder measure set up. For example, I have a specific 45 acp load that I load A LOT of for my 625, and similarly a 38 special wadcutter load tuned to my model 15 that also shoots very well in my model 10 and Blackhawk.

The issue, if you can call it that, is that I don't have time to work up a load for each and every gun nor do I have the interest in keeping that many different loads separate and marked.

Here is the best example - 9mm:
I know that all of my 9mm pistols shoot cast boolits well enough - if they don't they go bye bye, but I don't shoot any one of them enough to load a whole can full for each, or to take the time to develop a load for each, so I am currently developing a load that shoots well enough for plinking/practice/fun for all of them, an NOE 358-121-RN (356242 clone) over a powder and load to be determined (probably for grains of bullseye).

I have the same situation with 380 acp. And that is next up. Probably the 90 grain 358242 over 2.8 grains of bullseye.

Do any of my you have any good general purpose loads that you keep around to shoot in the guns you don't shoot enough to load ammo specifically for?

4.1 gr of 231/HP38 works well under my 346402 cast bullet in all my 9MM guns. With the same length of barrel I have not witnessed any difference is velocity or accuracy. Accuracy seems to be pretty good no matter the gun.

4 gr of Titegroup under 125 gr FMJ (Montana Gold) if I want to avoid the haze of lube smoke.

OAL 1.10"
These are my go to loads for IDPA when I use cast lead or FMJ bullets as described..

Take Care

Bob

[leeggen]

As most of us have come to learn, pistols are like women buying dresses,very rarely does 2 of them own the same thing. But you can come close, every powder company has a listing on the computer as to loads and powder. Just down load the data, some of the data is in bold type equals best powder for the bullit. What works in mine will probably not work well in yours, I may crimp more or less and such makes changesas to what works. This is why we work up our own loads for our own pistols. I am not trying to be a bonehead here but it is just that simple, no 2 women like to own the same dress!

[kentuckyshooter]

Just my 2cents but if your looking for a load that will work in all your guns for that clambering then the best place to start is with sammi specs. Make sure the deminsions of the carriage are corect. One thing that all factory loads have in common are that they are all within the specified deminsions for that cartage. Your dies should take care of all the case forming but you are responsible for the col. You might have to lead slightly shorter than max col to get something that will reliable chamber in all you fire arms. From there pick a middle of the road charge for the powder and bullet combination you have. Next I would load 2 test rounds for each fire arm you will shoot it threw. Since we're not to word yes about accuracy we want to test function with these. The first round test the feed cycle. The second round tests the feed and last round hold open. If any gun fails to feed or lock back slightly up the charge and repeat till every gun cycles. I don't think it will be an issue but do not exceed max loads in the process and you should be golden. Again this may not be the best load for every firearm but like factory it will give you something you can crank out to feed your shooting hobby and function in all your firearms for the chambering. I and I almost forgot. Check the head space. If the first round doesn't fully chamber on its own stop. You might have to adjust crimp or col a bit. You can't get around load development but you can simplify your inventory.