View Full Version : Casting, Scavenging Shotshells for Reloading, reloading boolits: experience update!!!
Casting, Scavenging Shotshells for Reloading, reloading boolits: experience update!!!
Hi there,
I got miracously my 7/8 Lee drive key slug mold and the 9mm Luger 124 grain TC mold. As all know I am located in Southamerica and supposedly bullet molds are not allowed but they arrived through approval of the national gun agency so there must have been a Change in law or Change of personell in the agency. It is like a miracle.
I casted already 64 9mm Luger (.356" nominal Diameter although they vary till .360" and are all above 125 grains) soft lead bullets and because they have an big Diameter I do not water quench them (in order they stay as soft as possible) and believe I can use them with my 357 mag Rough Rider in my homemade 9mm Federal Rimmed ammo (+p+ 38 short Colt).
What do you guys think about using These 9mm Luger .356" to .360" Diameter in 357 Magnum Revolvers? I already loaded 6 9mm Federal Rimmed but have not shot them yet.
The 9mm Luger works very well with the 125 grain Truncated Cone soft lead bullets and I have shot about 6 rounds without noticing leading.
How does leading Looks like?
I grease them with automotive Lithium grease as dipping in the lead bullet completely with a plyer and Stripping off just the base. In the seating die the grease is pushed down the case from outside and I whipe it off with a towel afterwards. Seems to work very well since the tumble lube grooves are completely covered heavily with the grease and the excess is stripped off by the seating/crimping die. I can not detect leading after those 6 rounds shot in my S&W SD9VE pistol. They seem to load a less reliable as FMJ factory bullets but seems to be probably due to reduced powder.
Powder Charge: First I charged it at 3.5 grains Bullseye type powder (scavenged from 12 ga shotshells since locally gun powder is not availlable) but noticed a factory like kick (recoil). With 115 grain FMJ I used to load it to 4.3 grains same powder. So I reduced it to 3.2 grains but believe it may be a Little on the weak side since it did not go allways into battery (lead or Trucated Cone shape seem to be a Little harder to load for the pistol) so that I reloaded the following bullets (9mm Luger for pistol and 9mm Federal Rimmed for revolver) to 3.3 grains of Bullseye type powder. That seems to cycle the pistol reliable.
These cast bullets saves lots of scavenged powder since before I got 5 rounds per shotshell and now I get 8 rounds per 12 ga shotshell. As well cast bullets are allmost for free and are way better I believe and the autonomy of reloading is the biggest reward with casting.
The casting is therefore a win win Situation.
Casting is a Little tricky but afterwards I get decent bullets (altough they all have a Little wrinkle Problem). I use a water kettle for casting and it gets so hot I allmost can not cast rigth (fill the holes) before my fingers get burns. I noticed how convenient an electric melting pooring pot for casting is since the lead has to stream directly and steady into the hole of the mold in orde to avaoid wrinkles. Any advice?
I believe my lead and mold are hot enough since I use a gas oven. With casting my Problem is wrinkles in the bullets but they work anyways and get shot if they seem to be more or less in good shape regardless the wrinkles. The same applies to the Lee 7/8 oz drive key slug as well for the 124 nominal grain Truncated Cone Lee mold for 9mm Luger.
Randy C
08-27-2016, 08:19 PM
I think you need to make enough bullets to keep your mould at the wright temp, there are times when the first dozen bullets look like yours and then the mould finds a sweet spot/it gets hot evenly through out the mould and my led is the wright Temp., I have to keep a steady fast pace once they get wright, to keep them that way.
SciFiJim
08-27-2016, 08:57 PM
Try to find a soup ladle to cast with. You can bend a small pour spout in the near edge to aid pouring into the fill holes on the sprue plate. Since you won't be holding as much weight when casting, you will have better control and if you are able to put a wooden handle on the ladle, you won't have as much of a heat problem.
With molds that are broken in, wrinkles are generally a problem of the mold not being hot enough. You can rest the bottom of the mold on the melted lead until the melted lead will no longer stick the mold. This will indicate that the mold is hot and ready for casting.
John Boy
08-27-2016, 09:18 PM
AJG ...Might want to delete your double post
those each have an Connection to each category they are in.
in order to receive the most replys i posted it in all corresponding categories.
Walter Laich
08-27-2016, 09:27 PM
glad you got your molds
some molds will take 3-4 casting sessions to become 'seasoned' or broken in.
agree more heat is probably needed
are you still having to tear down shotgun shells for powder?
Der Gebirgsjager
08-27-2016, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the interesting report on your activities. It sounds like your main problem is not enough heat when casting, perhaps you can get a propane burner? That's what I usually use, and I put a pot on top and dip out the hot lead with a dipper. It helps to have one of the dippers that has a pour spout on it, but it's not absolutely necessary. I wonder what kind of 9mm pistol you have, and what country do you live in?
Scharfschuetze
08-27-2016, 10:48 PM
I'm glad you got those moulds!
What do you guys think about using These 9mm Luger .356" to .360" Diameter in 357 Magnum Revolvers?
I often use a 147 grain 9mm boolit sized to .358 in my 38 Special and 357 revolvers. It works very well. I slightly roll crimp over the beginning of the boolit's ogive which holds the boolit in the case without any recoil induced movement.
the lead has to stream directly and steady into the hole of the mold in orde to avaoid wrinkles.
Did you completely degrease or wash all oil from the cavities of the mould? A little bit of oil or grease will cause wrinkles. You must still lube the bottom of the sprue plate and the alignment pins though.
Der Gebirgsjaeger,
Sorry, by gas oven I mean propane oven. In Southamerica we say "gas" to "propane". It is a 2 part propane cooker (Camping style type). I am located in Southamerica but want to hyde my Location for security reasons (like in Venezuela they may storm your house for ammo if they know you are a reloader).
I have the Smith and Wesson SD9VE 9mm Lugr pistol (Glock type plastic pistol but without the Glock disadvantages, "Glock smile due to unsupported chamber").
someone has erased my original post.
I do not know what the heck is going on People.
I thought there is freedom of posting in the Internet. Dunno what is going on.
I took lots of effort to post that lengthy post. If someone can copy it and post it again since I can not find it again.
I greased the mold with Lithium automotive grease. So there may be very well gotten grese into the venting cuts of the mold so they got plugged. if tried to whipe that off and since then it did a Little better.
I posted a post again in Boolits as an update and hope it stays on the Internet here.
DougGuy
08-28-2016, 02:31 PM
someone has erased my original post.
I do not know what the heck is going on People.
I thought there is freedom of posting in the Internet. Dunno what is going on.
I took lots of effort to post that lengthy post. If someone can copy it and post it again since I can not find it again.
Your posts were taken down because you cross posted the SAME THREAD in 7 sub forums, this is considered SPAMMING. PLEASE learn some forum etiquette. Post ONCE in the most appropriate forum. DO NOT cross post the same thread in multiple forums.
Der Gebirgsjager
08-28-2016, 02:33 PM
Hello, AJG--I don't know what happened to your post, but I did enjoy reading it. I can understand you wanting to keep your location secret, and that is how this website seems to be designed. You only know someone's location if they volunteer that information.
It sounds to me like we use the same type of stove, but mine is a large single burner. So to adjust your heat you'll either have to get a bigger burner or use a smaller melting pot. If you get a bigger burner you'll probably need a bigger tank with more pressure. It will also help in getting rid of the wrinkles to preheat your molds. If you cast and cast maybe 25-30 bullets with a cold mold it will eventually warm up enough to start casting smooth bullets, but will never do so if the temperature of the lead is too low.
I have never used straight lithium grease as a bullet lube, but do use it mixed about 3:1 with 30 wgt. motor oil as a firearms lube. Candle wax makes a good lube for mold hinges, as does paraffin.
Your choice of pistols is interesting. I always think of South America as being hot and humid, and that would be a good choice for those climatic conditions, but of course I know that Argentina, for example, has a climate much like ours.
Yes Gebirgsjaeger,
Argentina as a wast Country has at least 3 types of climate at the same time. They are allmost the only Country of Southamerica who can provide tomatos to all other countries since they have allways the appropiate climate. For example 80% of all tomatos in Brazil come from Argentina since brazil has not that broad climate spectrum.
I am interested in your bullet lube recipe. You say 3 Lithium grease and 1 part Motor oil? I have bad experiences with oil getting wet the primers (they delay in firing or not fire at all).
DoughGuy,
If you may send me that post again as I want to post it again (in one category)!
Gebirgsjaeger,
We have here a hot dry climate. Semiarid.
Choice of pistol: It was the cheapest here (it was bought for about 1000 US$). !!!So cheap!!! As well I hate rust and like therefore stainless steel.
unfortunately no much stainless guns are imported since they are pricier and would have a Price tag here People would not be able to pay for.
JonB_in_Glencoe
08-28-2016, 04:10 PM
DoughGuy,
If you may send me that post again as I want to post it again (in one category)!
I have replaced your original post to the top of this thread. All discussion about it, should be in this forum. Please do not start any other identical threads in other sub-forums.
Jon
Thanks very much for posting my original post. Very Kind of you.
My lead cast bullets (with wrinkle issue) look like polished shiny stainless steel or shiny silver. No indications of frosty Looks. They look very nice (silvery)
Is that ok or is it an indicator to mold or lead to cold?
JonB_in_Glencoe
08-28-2016, 04:18 PM
I also deleted your thumbs down thread.
DougGuy,
it seems only if it is dangerous to scavenge powder from shotshells. But in reality is is not that bad. I have it way easier than Victorfox who is in Brazil since they have way more restrictions as I can see on his Posts.
The most important is: START VERY LOW ON POWDER CHARGE AND WORK YOURSELF UP USING AN SEMI AUTO PISTOL TO SEE WHEN IT CYCLES. The cycling Point or just a touch above is my Standard (max) Charge Point. No going over that!!
I had no clue how much powder to load with an 125 grain cast bullet. So I figured to cut it down 0.7 grain and see how it works (right now I am at 3.3 grains and down from 4.3 grains). That is the best safety measure.
The semi Auto pistol IS A MUST TO EXPERIMENT LIKE THIS since that gives you a good approximate for the normal powder Charge for that pistol (the Point were it cycles reliably is the Maximum Charge in that system).
The thumbs down Smiley was an error. Not the thread. There seems to have been a Change in Moderators since till now I got allways very usefull replys.
Resumee of the deleted thread from today:
Today i shot 6 shots of my homemade 9mm Federal Rimmed of my Pietta Heritage Rough Rider 357 Magnum Revolvers. I shot from it the cast 124 nominal grain (actually they are all over 125 grain) nominal .356" (are from .356" to .361") in Diameter Lee truncated Cone tumble lube lead bullets. No signs of leading in the pistol nor as I can see no signs of leading in the Revolver.
The cast boolits (9mm Luger) are on the grease grooves .355" and on the base .360" average. They do not get pushed down the cylinder and get stuck on the exit end of the cylinder (but they are not sticking out of the cylinder). These boolits as well are bigger than the Barrel and they do not enter completely the forcing cone.
As I understood FortuneCoockie45 on Youtube that is an indicator the boolits have the rigth size for the gun. As well I load them as cast and do not resize them.
Please any ideas.
How can I know for sure if leading is present? (Please describe or Pictures).
I again posted a post and now it again dissappeared.
I might get persecuted from some People who have acces to this Webpage.
Ah sorry. there above it is.
DougGuy
08-28-2016, 05:22 PM
Arghhh colors.. Please read some of the posts and see that colors are only used very sparingly, purple is used for sarcasm and maybe red for extreme warnings but for the most part please post in black text in a normal fashion..
No I think that goes to far if Color choices are forced to users.
Is this Website chinese based? There is no Superstition about different Colors.
Or do some certain People not like my Christian way of thinking?
It seems only if it is dangerous to scavenge powder from shotshells. But in reality is is not that bad. I have it way easier than Victorfox who is in Brazil since they have way more restrictions as I can see on his Posts.
The most important is: START VERY LOW ON POWDER CHARGE AND WORK YOURSELF UP USING AN SEMI AUTO PISTOL TO SEE WHEN IT CYCLES. The cycling Point or just a touch above is my Standard (max) Charge Point. No going over that!!
I had no clue how much powder to load with an 125 grain cast bullet. So I figured to cut it down 0.7 grain and see how it works (right now I am at 3.3 grains and down from 4.3 grains). That is the best safety measure.
The semi Auto pistol IS A MUST TO EXPERIMENT LIKE THIS since that gives you a good approximate for the normal powder Charge for that pistol (the Point were it cycles reliably is the Maximum Charge in that system).
JimB..
08-28-2016, 05:56 PM
AJG, congratulations on getting your Molds and on your first casting session. Now I suggest that you degrease your Molds (brake cleaner, soap and water, then dry) and go look in the forum for information on bullet lubes. You'll find tons of stuff, it's a pretty well developed science at this point.
Also, slow down your posting, you've got too many things going on at once and it makes it challenging to provide useful advice.
By the way, your English is far better than my second language, so not knocking your language skills, you're just trying to learn too fast. Slow down, cast more and melt the wrinkled ones. Casting is best learned by casting.
Thanks JimB for your Kind reply.
My Computer is Kind of iffy since it automatically writes words otherwise I type it (I type right but the PC is changing the words). Probably due to being the Windows 8 in German and Keyboard in english.
I posted another thread in Boolit lube asking for any experience with Lithium grease which I am using as boolit lube.
Most stuff you guys have in the US we do not have. We are limited to Lithium grease and Petroleum jelly and Vaseline (that is what is availlable). That is why lots of US recipes and tons of info are worthless for me.
cast boolits look like shiny stainless steel.
Would be interesting how "leading" in the Barrel Looks like.
JimB..
08-28-2016, 08:18 PM
Leading in the barrel is easy, it'll start to fill in between the rifling and you'll notice accuracy will fall off. You'll see it, or at least will know it's there. If you can't tell, you don't have it.
If your bullets are shiny, smooth and have sharp edges then you've got the hang of it. If you heat the lead a bit more and cast a bit faster your mold will get hotter and the bullets will go from shiny to a little frosty. Doesn't hurt anything, just slow down a bit to get back to shiny.
As for lube, I think you'll do better with something a bit stickier (something with some wax in it) but honestly I don't know why a coating of grease wouldn't work, it just seems like it'd be super messy.
Do you have access to paraffin, candle wax, canning wax, furniture wax, floor wax?
JimB..
08-28-2016, 09:29 PM
AJG, I forgot to ask about beeswax. Surely you've got beeswax.
A 50/50 mix of beeswax and Vaseline (or petroleum jelly) can be used as a bullet lube, add a wax crayon if you want some color to it.
Someone earlier mentioned adding motor oil to make a GUN lube, this is different than a BULLET lube. Stay away from motor oil for bullets.
Der Gebirgsjager
08-28-2016, 09:59 PM
AJG--you misunderstood me. I use the lithium/motor oil lube on the firearms, not on the bullets. I have always used commercially made bullet lubes.
If I want to lube so as to just fill the grease grooves I use an old fashioned system of melting Lee Brand alox based lubricant in a shallow pan. This stuff is getting hard to find. It is solid, and comes in a round stick. It melts easily on the stove. I stand the bullets upright in the pan and pour in the melted lube to a level just above the top groove. Then I let the lube harden and use a closely fitting tube--sometimes a cutoff cartridge case of a slightly larger caliber is just right, and push it down over the bullet. As the tube or cutoff cartridge case is open on both ends, as you continue to push it down over the bullets they will be forced out the top into your hand. As this happens you just set them aside and they are pretty much ready to load.
Another method I use is the Lee Tumble Lube system. It is also an alox based lube that comes as a liquid in a plastic bottle. That requires a small plastic tub like cottage cheese comes in. Pour a small amount of the liquid lube into the bottom of the tub, put the bullets in on top, and gently shake it or stir it around with a small piece of wood. When the bullets are coated I pour them out onto a piece of newspaper and let them dry, and they are ready to load. This results in a coating of lube all over the bullet and not a ring of lube in the grease grooves. They are kind of ugly, but they shoot well and do not lead the barrel.
If I have to size the bullets they are automatically lubed as they go through the die of the sizing machine. That is done with commercially prepared lube sticks that go inside the machine.
One of the members of this forum developed a superior bullet lube named "Ben's Red". You can do a "search" on the website and read about how to make it.
The lubes that I use and have described to you are fairly solid when dry. I can see where your lithium grease might work satisfactorily if you are careful to wipe off the excess--anything not in the grooves--before loading the bullets. Too much lube might drop down into the case and contaminate the powder charge, especially in a hot climate where the grease would perhaps become thinner. That is just guessing--I've never tried it. I'll be interested to hear more about your reloading adventures if you care to post them.
Best wishes.
DG
beeswax used to be availlable but novadays nobody uses it anymore (they used to use it to bake their motorcycle chains in it to lubricate) so it is nowhere to find anymore. Crayon as candle wax is not availlable but candles yes.
Gebirgsjaeger,
I just finished casting 20 Lee 125 grain Truncated Cone tumble lube bullets. They Show a Little wrinkle again but I will use them. I noticed the wrinkle has to do with pooring technique. The lead has to be poored straight into the hole and continuously otherwise the lead semi solidifies in the mold and if poored on top it wrinkles. As well I casted 10 Lee 7/8 oz drive key slugs again with wrinkles but I will use them. Kind of will live with the wrinkles.
Bullets are shiny and allways have sharp edges (if they do not have sharp edges, specially the base, I recast them).
The Lithium grease is Ultra high temperature resistant. it will never melt nor catch fire. It is used here for land machines and is very high temperature resistant. So it allways will stay were it is and there is no danger to liquify and drip into the case from the loaded bullet. I burnt it with a lighter and it does not liquify nor catch fire (it rather tends to carbonize after jellying if Ultra high temperatures are applied).
runfiverun
08-29-2016, 01:19 AM
the candles the Christian church uses for some prayer or vigil or whatever things is mandated by the head dudes of the church to be 50% beeswax.
mix about 30% of your lithium grease with those.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 03:12 AM
A stainless steel condiment ladle with a small (3/32") hole drilled in the bottom makes a good bottom pour ladle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZQQ159QJCo
Thanks Navyvet1959,
you gave me an idea with this Video. It is actually a possibility to drill a hole into a kitchen laddle and use it as a bottom poor casting device.
As well I may let put an Wood handle on my actual aluminum water kettle I use for casting. My water kettle for casting is mde from aluminum (seems to hold up just fine).
runfiverun,
The candles of which confession are from beeswax by mandatory rule? I cenrtainly will not be able to distinguish if a candle is made from beeswax or not.
Please do not confuse what "Christianity" has become These days; and what it ought to be (what it should be). The Christianity has degradated a lot in all regards but that has not to be confused with Jesus Christ himself. It is even written in the Bible that [free Translation of me] "at the last days there will be a widespread falling off from faith but they will Claim to be christians although they are not". It is all prophecied.
What is is different what should be!
But I believe if plain Lithium grease is working just fine why bother with mixing and cooking? It is a Little messy but handle the bullets with an short plyer and no greasy fingers even involved. With plain Lithium grease the only Thing what is full of grease is the Seating&crimping die (last die). But I think that will not bother it's Performance.
Wayne Smith
08-29-2016, 01:44 PM
No local beekeepers??
In the lube section there are very many kinds of lube that have worked for years. I agree if it works don't break it, but adding a little beeswax will thicken your lube (Lithium grease) and you will make Lithibee lube! It has been a bullet lube since Lithium grease came out, or soon after. It will be much cleaner and not make quite the mess you currently have. That may be the only advantage, but in the long term probably valuable.
Congratulations on getting your molds. I use a propane single stove to cast after my Dad's old Coleman propane double stove started getting fire where it shouldn't. I use an electric hotplate to pre-heat my molds - this may be your problem, the mold too cool in the beginning. Also, once you are casting ignore the boolits other than to move them, admire them after they cool. Admiring them as you cast allows the mold to cool. Wrinkles in the boolits result.
Get rid of the alumunium pot, eventually it will fail on you, the failure temp of alumunium and the melting temp of lead are way too close. An old 1qt SS kitchen pot works well - I melted the aluminum heat spreading piece off of mine the first time I used it. You will burn the handle off of it, but I don't move mine when it is hot anyway. I still use that old SS pot.
JimB..
08-29-2016, 01:50 PM
AJG, I am impressed by your determination!
I have always been told that aluminum pots are not good for casting because the heat will eventually cause the aluminum to fail all at once without warning. Could happen soon, might never happen, I have no first hand experience. Just suggest that you keep your eyes open for an iron or stainless steel pot and switch when you can.
Beeswax smells like honey, and if you can't buy it look for any local beekeepers. If you are in a very dry location you may not have this option.
Thought about black powder, do you have access to aquarium supplies? In that hobby they use granulated activated carbon made from coconut shell to filter water. I've always thought that it'd be a good source of charcoal, but I have never tried it.
Keep at it,
Jim
No I Kind of gave up with the Black Powder.
After I casted a few of the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs I loaded them in my empty 12 ga shotshells left over from Scavenging those for powder and lead to reload and loaded it right full of my Black Powder. It allways goes bang but the power Levels are so unsatisfactory y hardly think it would kill a kat. A soft 1/2" Wood just gets a ding in it were the 7/8 oz slug with Black Powder hit it at 7 yards. The slug I recovered and has a hefty Deformation but at normal power Levels it should penetrate quiet a few inches of soft Wood right through.
As all you know I am Scavenging 12 ga shotshells for powder and lead for reloading. That leaves me with lots of empty primed 12 ga shotshells (whom I cut just on top and save the crimp and plastic wad. After I empty lead and powder I stuff back in the wad and round crimp in order to protect the primer from getting exposed to humidity and so I just Need powder to be ready to reload those empty hulls again since I leave the primer untouched) who are ready to be loaded again once I should be able to get powder. Lead is availlable from wheel wheights plenty from gas stations for about 0.6 US$ per Kilogramm.
Yes why fix it if it ain't broke! (If Lithium grease works why look for another?).
I will Keep that in mind that ALUMINUM SUDDENLY CAN FAIL. So that means a Charge of hot lead can land on my bare feet. Better Change to stainless steel made in India for safety reasons. Till now I put 2 Ingots of about 500 gramm each into the aluminum water kettle and Keep the flame of the propane burner constantly on medium. On top of the kettle I put the mold to heat since hot air from inside the kettle streams over the mold and heats it.
Bees honey used to be produced here but as we are in a semiarid climate it somehow gets imported novadays. Regards honey you have to be Aware for scams since they like to put sugar and water and sell it as "honey". Only the Indians (first nations I guess it is called in Canada) sell more or less original honey at least they sell it as "Honey" (but you never know).
runfiverun
08-29-2016, 02:42 PM
3 drams of black powder should push that 7/8 oz slug to about 1225 fps.
that's 380 grains at 1225 fps, a buffalo isn't gonna shrug that off much less a cat.
if your getting poof rather than booom you need to work on your gas seal and crimp.
M-Tecs
08-29-2016, 03:13 PM
If its properly manufactured BP you are correct, however, the OP is using homemade BP that has numerous steps that are skipped in the process.
Yes real BP should have way more energy.
It is not going "poof". It makes lots of noise, smoke and flame. Has recoil as an 22 magnum. Seems to burn all the homemade Black Powder but lacks almost completely of energy.
It seems to work right (no hang fire, very loud noise, lots of smoke and indications of flame) but no Penetration whatsoever nor recoil.
I cut the wad (recoil dampening part of the wad and the part what normally sits right against the powder) leaving just the wad were the slug goes in in order to make more room for more "homemade BP". I filled the case completely full of "BP" and compressed it as well till that Point I could seat just the left over wad with the slug in.
Nevertheless no recoil nor Penetration. Recoil is same as Shooting a 12 ga rubber ball round (less than lethal).
By the way: I did not crimp that "BP shotshell" at all. But I think it would nevertheless make an difference since the weight of the 7/8 oz slug should be enough to build up enough pressure and burn all "BP".
Der Gebirgsjager
08-29-2016, 03:49 PM
As for AJG's use of scrounged/salvaged shotgun powders, I can't find too much to criticize there, as long as he continues to exercise due caution in load development. Red, Blue and Green Dot powders all started off as shotgun powders, but through experimentation by reloaders became widely used as pistol powders as well, as did Unique which always had multiple applications, and there are several others. The only real danger I see here is if he self-develops a theory such as (example) "3.5 gr. of any shotgun powder is a good 9mm load." That may not be the case, as powder types vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and can vary even with ammunition lots. But as long as he observes caution in developing a load with each new batch of powder he should be o.k.
I've found his experiment with lithium grease as a bullet lube to be quite interesting. He must have access to a different grade of type of grease that I've used for years in my firearms lube formula (which I got from AMT) since he says his is high temp resistant and almost fireproof. If I can locate some that matches the description I'll give it a try. Since he's not experiencing leading it must work.
AJG-that's a good idea about drilling a hole in the ladle, but I'd drill it in the side rather than the bottom. If the hole is in the bottom the lead will immediately start running out when lifted from the pot and may splatter and burn you, and you'll have to slop it over to the top of the mold. But a side pour hole will let you move the ladle to the mold and then tip it for a controlled pour.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 04:25 PM
AJG-that's a good idea about drilling a hole in the ladle, but I'd drill it in the side rather than the bottom. If the hole is in the bottom the lead will immediately start running out when lifted from the pot and may splatter and burn you, and you'll have to slop it over to the top of the mold. But a side pour hole will let you move the ladle to the mold and then tip it for a controlled pour.
When I came up with that ladle idea and gave it a try, I was wanting to know how well it would work and if it worked well enough, I was going to develop either a hand operated lever that would plug the bottom of the ladle or buy a Rowel ladle. I originally started with a 1/16" hole and it had too low of a flow rate. I increased it to a 3/32" hole and it seemed perfect for the size bullets I was casting. The advantage of it or any ladle that gets its lead from the bottom of the ladle is that you get the clean lead, not the oxide that forms on the surface. When I told FortuneCookie45LC on YouTube about my experiment, he tried it and posted a video of it. He used a slightly different ladle though. I prefer a condiment ladle like you find in restaurant supply stores. The handle is more vertical than your typical kitchen ladle and is also typically a half sphere. I have not had any problem with spillage or "slop". You have the mold in your left hand near the pot. You lower the ladle in the pot to fill it up. You then raise the ladle and at the same time put the mold under the stream of lead. You might end up with a bit more of a sprue, but that also helps heat the mold up quicker. One of the problem with many of the commercial ladle designs is that the handle angle is not appropriate for a narrow and deep casting pot. Because of the more vertical handle angle on the condiment ladle, this is not an issue. As it turned out, I liked this solution well enough that I didn't bother with ordering a Rowell ladle. Because it is so simple, if the hole somehow ever did get clogged, it would be extremely easy to clean.
Der gebirgsjaeger,
Well, as I stated before, i am not that sure how leading looks like. I just watched my SD9VE pistol Barrel closely and could not see any strange Things inside. There is a slight darkened discolouration inside in a few spots but I believe that was from before as well while using FMJ Winchester 115 grain bullets. I do not believe it is leading.
Would be nice if someone can provide Photos of a leaded barrel.
Yes it is a danger to get careless. I cought myself already as well to be on the slight careless side. One of my Shells (Saga spanish brand) cycle the pistol at 4.3 grains with an FMJ 115 grain Winchester bullet. The argentinian brand Orbea cycles it at 4.0 grains. Saga 12 ga shotshells (all 2 3/4") have 28 grains powder inside; the Orbeas have 25 grains of powder. So the argentinian ones are slighly more powerfull as the spanish (Saga) ones.
I figured therefore I put just 3.3 grains for the lead cast 125 grains Lee Truncated Cone tumble lube bullets and be fine for BOTH POWDERS. As that the rounds loaded with Orbea powder will have more velocity (maybe +P) as the Spanish Saga ones but I guess (yes guess) I am still on the safe side.
Both powder types difference 0.3 grains in Charge for cycling the pistol and I believe that Variation is whitin safe loadable Limits. I "feel" the Saga rounds loaded to 3.3 are a Little on the weak side for the 9mm Federal Rimmed revolver (357 mag) rounds so 3.3 grains of the hotter powder should be whitin safe Limits.
I noticed the pistol rounds 9mm Luger go not as easy into battery as did the factory Winchester FMJ round nose (while firing they load reliable but Hand rack the slide I Encounter a Little obstacle/hindrance). The cast bullets are crimped to .377" and the factory FMJ were crimped to about .376". I have a Feeling the Truncated Cone design hits the chamber since there is a Little lead damage on the case mouth on the lead bullet. Is that normal that lead cast bullets load not as easy as FMJ?
May I crimp more the cast bullets? That will increase pressure I guess but may reduce the case mouth Diameter of the 9mm Luger.
Any advice, experience please!!!
The Lithium grease is from Texaco (I believe Argentina branch) brand Marfac.
Der Gebirgsjager
08-29-2016, 07:50 PM
The truncated 9mm bullets--Feed and extract a couple by hand, then examine the sides of the nose for a flattened spot. That was a very early German design for Luger pistols, and in a Luger it can definitely help with the feeding reliability, but I'm not so certain about an S&W.
Leading--usually this appears if the lead is very soft and there's insufficient or no lube and a high velocity. It can be any two of the three. It usually appears as dull streaks between the lands in the grooves, starts a short distance in front of the chamber and lessens toward the muzzle. There is another kind of leading that results from a rough bore. In that case minute pieces of lead are scraped off the bullet as it passes by the irregularity. If you clean your pistol's barrel well with a bore brush and some solvent, if you have leading there will be little pieces of it on the bore brush and subsequent cleaning patches. There are chemicals now that do very well at removing the leading. There is also a tool that I used in my business that has been around for years and years called a Lewis Lead Remover. It is like a pistol cleaning rod and uses small patches of brass or copper mesh that looks something like the screen in a screen door. It works very well. But, I don't believe that you have leading from your postings, as if you did it would be visible. Take your barrel out of your pistol, hold it up to the light, and look for streaks.
To me, it does sound like the resistance you encounter when racking the slide by hand is due to a slightly larger diameter. But, it doesn't sound like anything that needs to be changed if, as you said, the resistance is slight and the cartridges feed reliably when fired. Excessive crimp can raise pressures. If the slide failed to go into battery I would worry about it. If you continue to be concerned you will have to find a way to size the bullets to .355, and can shoot the larger diameter unsized bullets in your revolver.
Thanks for the tip on the lithium grease. I think you may be on to something by using it, and I'm going to look for some and try it.
Der Gebirgsjager
08-29-2016, 07:58 PM
NavyVet1959--I would expect nothing less of an imaginative and inventive reloader like yourself. I use one of the Lyman-made ladles with the spout on the side. I used to have a bit of trouble with it until I realized that it needed to heat up enough to keep the silver stream hot enough for the next cavity in the multiple cavity mold. So I started sticking it in the pot for a while before beginning, and with pre-warmed molds and a hot ladle everything was operational.
DG
Gebirgsjaeger and all others,
I found the Problem of the truncated cone cast bullets (9mm Luger) not wanting to feed (go into battery) rigth.
The truncated cone was not seated deep enough so it sheared a Little lead between headspacing (case and Barrel chamber). It was indeed headspacing on lead (on the trunated cone itself).
I seated those deeper, crimped a bit more and now it works flawlessly.
Truncated cone has to seated completely so no lube grooves can be seen (all lube groove and semiwadcutter edge has to go into the case). The Headspacing must be between CASE and CHAMBER EDGE.
This Problem may be solved as well by sizing the lead cast bullet (Thing I do not do). I just seat them deeper and crimp 'em more.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 08:27 PM
NavyVet1959--I would expect nothing less of an imaginative and inventive reloader like yourself.
Is that a politically correct way of saying, "someone who drinks that much beer"? :)
On YouTube, I go by "Grumpy OldMan", but I just comment on the miscellaneous video / other posts -- I'm not a video creation type of person, so I don't post any.
NavyVet1959,
Take Gebirgsjaeger's Statement as is: as a compliment.
Don't paint a Devil on the wall were there is None.
Gebirgsjaeger most likely just wanted to honour your creativity and Spirit of Invention. We have to learn to accept compliments and not seeking allways the "boobie trap" on that.
RU shooter
08-29-2016, 08:52 PM
I googled an image of a leaded barrel another way to easy tell if you cant see by looking done the bore is to just run a tight dry patch down it . The patch will not slide smoothly and try to drags and catch on the leading . Good luck and keep at it it does get easier .
175456
Der Gebirgsjager
08-29-2016, 08:52 PM
Yeah--really--I wasn't trying to be snide or abrasive. I have always used the ready made Lyman ladle and never would have thought to drill a hole in a ladle. And I'll never forget that you contributed so greatly to the identification of my Jap Type 99 that time. Always in debited for that! I honestly don't know where the video and U-tube connection is coming from. Maybe you saw something I didn't?
DG
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 08:54 PM
NavyVet1959,
Take Gebirgsjaeger's Statement as is: as a compliment.
Don't paint a Devil on the wall were there is None.
Gebirgsjaeger most likely just wanted to honour your creativity and Spirit of Invention. We have to learn to accept compliments and not seeking allways the "boobie trap" on that.
I think my reply got lost on the translation to you. It was intended as a sort of self-deprecating humor (i.e. if you can't laugh at yourself, who *can* you laugh at?) That's what the smileys were for... :)
Besides, I will gladly admit that at least a few of my ideas over the years have been after having consumed a few beers. All too often though, it was succeeded by the statement, "Here, hold my beer" and well, you probably know how that turns out too many times. :)
Der Gebirgsjager
08-29-2016, 08:58 PM
Oh yeah--that's the same as, "Watch this!" :drinks:
yes it seems I missed the joke.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 08:59 PM
Yeah--really--I wasn't trying to be snide or abrasive. I have always used the ready made Lyman ladle and never would have thought to drill a hole in a ladle. And I'll never forget that you contributed so greatly to the identification of my Jap Type 99 that time. Always in debited for that! I honestly don't know where the video and U-tube connection is coming from. Maybe you saw something I didn't?
If you watch the video by FortuneCookie45LC on YouTube, you'll see that he is evaluating ladle pouring via a commercial ladle and the design that I created (if you can call drilling a hole in the bottom of a ladle, "creating"). The Grumpy OldMan he mentions there is me. The condiment ladles cost about $1 at the local restaurant supply store, so it was a cheap experiment and I was very surprised that it worked so well. The metal is thinner than the cast iron ladles, so the ladle heats up very quickly.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 09:06 PM
yes it seems I missed the joke.
No big deal... Jokes often don't translate well between cultures...
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 09:07 PM
Oh yeah--that's the same as, "Watch this!" :drinks:
And then, "Damn, I *hate* compound fractures..."
RU shooter,
My Barrel does not look like the Picture you posted. No bulges of lead or any similar.
The dark stripes in the Barrel were present as well when Shooting only FMJ's. The stripes are peobably from the unclean burning scavenged shotgun powder I use.
I remelted today a water kettle full of wheel wheights. Once they melted I pour the lead into the other casting water kettle and there it stays for casting. Both kettles are ALUMINUM and have in the middle of them a pouring pipe.
Aluminum may work but max lead weight is about 1 Kg (2 lbs) in order to not stress the hot aluminum water kettles. I anyways do not cast more than 50 bullets/slugs at once since I do not shoot that much anyways. I may stick with aluminum for casting material if I stay under 2 lbs of weight in those kettles. Laddles seem to me too dangerous since hot lead can drip down which can not happen with These classic (aluminum) water Kettles. Their design is inherently safe in my opinion.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 09:16 PM
RU shooter,
My Barrel does not look like the Picture you posted. No bulges of lead or any similar.
The dark stripes in the Barrel were present as well when Shooting only FMJ's. The stripes are peobably from the unclean burning scavenged shotgun powder I use.
I remelted today a water kettle full of wheel wheights. Once they melted I pour the lead into the other casting water kettle and there it stays for casting. Both kettles are ALUMINUM and have in the middle of them a pouring pipe.
Aluminum may work but max lead weight is about 1 Kg (2 lbs) in order to not stress the hot aluminum water kettles. I anyways do not cast more than 50 bullets/slugs at once since I do not shoot that much anyways. I may stick with aluminum for casting material if I stay under 2 lbs of weight in those kettles. Laddles seem to me too dangerous since hot lead can drip down which can not happen with These classic (aluminum) water Kettles. Their design is inherently safe in my opinion.
I have to wonder if what you are calling a kettle is different than what we call one. There is no way that I would use any of the hot water kettles around here for lead. Maybe post a photo of what you're talking about?
With ladles, you put your mold over the pot, so any lead that flows over it goes back into the pot. I have not had any lead end up anywhere other than the pot with my bottom pour ladle, but with the Lee bottom pour casting pot, I have had drips and freeflows that ended up soldering the casting pot stand to the tray that I had it in.
Hi,
See this similar water kettle as I use it for casting. Without a cap and from aluminum. The photo Shows a similar Thing as well similar handle.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 09:40 PM
Hi,
See this similar water kettle as I use it for casting. Without a cap and from aluminum. The photo Shows a similar Thing as well similar handle.
Slightly different... Our most common ones are more like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr.-Coffee-Harpwell-2-qt-Whistling-Tea-Kettle-74265.02/25428391
So, you're pouring directly from your kettle into your molds?
Yes. from that all aluminum CLASSIC WATER KETTLE I pour directly into the mold. The mold is put on top of the kettle for heating and there is less danger of lead splash if the kettle is high. I allways wear a full plastic faceshield while casting.
Those walmart kettles may work as well if they are all metal and some sort of sturdy.
But I have found that the biggest secret for casting is HOW YOU POUR IN THE LEAD INTO THE MOLD. The stream has to be fine and steady. Optimal stream seems to me has the Lee electric lead furnace. My kettle has a Little broad pouring mouth as has the kettle shown on Picture.
NavyVet1959
08-29-2016, 10:16 PM
Those walmart kettles may work as well if they are all metal and some sort of sturdy.
But I have found that the biggest secret for casting is HOW YOU POUR IN THE LEAD INTO THE MOLD. The stream has to be fine and steady. Optimal stream seems to me has the Lee electric lead furnace. My kettle has a Little broad pouring mouth as has the kettle shown on Picture.
Those American classic type of kettles have too wide of a mouth for pouring lead.
I was actually inspired by the Lee bottom pour casting pot when I came up with the bottom pour condiment ladle. I fully intended to come up with some sort of pin to block the hole if it worked well enough, but as it turned out, it worked so well that I didn't even need the pin. For a cost of $1 for the ladle, it was probably one of my cheaper experiments over the years, much less an experiment that actually *worked*. :)
I checked up the melting Point of Aluminum and Lead.
Aluminum has a melting Point of 660 Degrees Celsius.
Lead has an melting Point of 327 Degrees Celsius.
So the aluminum has a way higher melting Point, actually double of the lead. So I doubt there is that much an danger of melting the aluminum water kettle together with the lead and pouring both melted onto the casters feet.
As well the tensile strength which I assume measures the pull-apart-strength of a material is for aluminum even higher then for cast iron. So aluminum should be stronger than cast iron per weight.
Tensile strength of aluminum is 300 MPa.
Tensile strength of cast iron is 200 MPa.
This should tell us that aluminum is less prone to crack or break as does cast iron. So chances are the cast iron laddle is more dangerous (prone to fall apart with a hot Charge of lead and Spill onto the caster) than an aluminum water kettle.
Conclusion: Aluminum melting Point is twice as high as the lead melting Point. Tensile strength of aluminum is fairly high (higher than cast iron) compared to cast iron. It may be therefore safe to use just aluminum hardware for casting bullets!
ANY OPINION OF AN INGENEER of this area IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 11:06 AM
I checked up the melting Point of Aluminum and Lead.
Aluminum has a melting Point of 660 Degrees Celsius.
Lead has an melting Point of 327 Degrees Celsius.
So the aluminum has a way higher melting Point, actually double of the lead. So I doubt there is that much an danger of melting the aluminum water kettle together with the lead and pouring both melted onto the casters feet.
As well the tensile strength which I assume measures the pull-apart-strength of a material is for aluminum even higher then for cast iron. So aluminum should be stronger than cast iron per weight.
Tensile strength of aluminum is 300 MPa.
Tensile strength of cast iron is 200 MPa.
This should tell us that aluminum is less prone to crack or break as does cast iron. So chances are the cast iron laddle is more dangerous (prone to fall apart with a hot Charge of lead and Spill onto the caster) than an aluminum water kettle.
Conclusion: Aluminum melting Point is twice as high as the lead melting Point. Tensile strength of aluminum is fairly high (higher than cast iron) compared to cast iron. It may be therefore safe to use just aluminum hardware for casting bullets!
ANY OPINION OF AN INGENEER of this area IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
If you think that 660C is twice 327C, then you have no understanding of thermodynamics. :)
660C is actually 55.486% higher than 327C.
((660+273.15) - (327+273.15)) / (327+273.15)
= (660 - 327) / (327 + 273.15) = 1.55486
As such, with an ideal gas, if you put it in a closed container and heated it from 327C to 60C, the pressure would increase by 55.486%, not by 100% (double).
The issue is not just the melting point, but the strength of the metal as it heats up. The strength of the aluminum decreases enough as it heats up that it could become a concern. The bigger concern though is that you might end up heating it up well past the melting point of the lead while you are starting out and before you have a good size puddle of lead over the entire bottom of the container. This is even more of a concern when you are smelting wheelweights since you sometimes have zinc and steel in there and it might not be lead at the bottom initially.
I re-engineered a cast aluminum gas grill once to run off of unregulated propane. It was great for searing steaks. I could easily shoot a column of flame over 6 ft in the air if I gave the valve a quick turn. One day when I was preheating the grill, I had molten aluminum fall out of the bottom of the grill, hit the ground, and splatter on my shoe and pants leg. And that was with just the weight of the aluminum itself. Imagine what could have happened if it had contained molten lead.
http://www.burnsstainless.com/images/technology/YieldStrength-2.gif
Whereas the ultimate yield strength of aluminum might be 40,000 psi, it is only 1740 psi at 700F and 2160 psi at 601F.
http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet_print.aspx?matguid=1b8c06d0ca7c456694c77 77d9e10be5b
With respect to cast iron cracking and breaking, that normally just occurs if there is a rapid change in temperature or if it is struck very hard. If you get it red hot and drop it into water, you might get a crack. I've never had a crack in cast iron though and I've taken pots off the stove and put them under running water to cool them and wash out the food residue.
I then do not understand the issue very well.
Yes the melting Point of aluminum is DOUBLE as that of lead (327=100% than 660 is 200% of 327 roughly). Yes there may be the issue of passing way more the melting Point of lead but then in my case I would not get wrinkled bullets right?
I believe if they make water kettles of aluminum that material is safe. You can cook the water empty of an aluminum water kettle and that supposedly is safe.
IT SEEMS TO ME THE PROPANE FLAME DETERMINES THE OVERALL HEAT and it does not matter that aluminum is Close in melting Point as lead as Long the temperature stays below 660 degr Celsius.
As I understand: you can heat with propane at constant flame ALL DAY LONG AN ALUMINUM KETTLE WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE TO IT. The heat Level is somewhat constant i believe since out of the propane tank comes a constant stream of propane and heat is equal first hour and as well 8th hour (if you use it lets say for 8 hs).
runfiverun
08-30-2016, 11:34 AM
the melting point is higher.
the stress fracture point is lower, and heating cooling cycles add to stress fractures within the alloy itself.
it's like firing a brass case over and over sooner or later it will fracture and fail.
the one drip your saving now will be a whole 2 lbs at some point.
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 11:51 AM
I then do not understand the issue very well.
Yes the melting Point of aluminum is DOUBLE as that of lead (327=100% than 660 is 200% of 327 roughly).
NO, it isn't...
Let's use another example and see if using your method of calculating a percent of increase in temperature what value you get.
Apparently, you are using the formula:
(Tfinal - Tinitial) / Tinitial
So, what do you get with the Tinitial = 0C and Tfinal = 100C?
JimB..
08-30-2016, 11:55 AM
AJG, think of it like this. The risk is that you'll dump a kilo of molten lead on your feet, and the cost to avoid this risk is a scavenged iron or steel pot that will cost next to nothing. Even if all the science is wrong or you're just lucky and your aluminum pot will never fail, is it worth the risk that can be so easily avoided?
BTW, it is reasonably safe to continue to use an aluminum pot that has been boiled dry because when used for cooking it'll never get much above 100 degrees C. This conclusion can not be applied to melting lead.
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 12:04 PM
BTW, it is reasonably safe to continue to use an aluminum pot that has been boiled dry because when used for cooking it'll never get much above 100 degrees C. This conclusion can not be applied to melting lead.
It might be used for deep frying which means that it could go up to 400F or so.
Thin aluminum is easier to melt than thick aluminum, but even thick aluminum *can* be melted with just a propane flame. See my previous comment about a cast aluminum gas grill that I "re-engineered" for unregulated propane usage.
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 12:12 PM
I believe if they make water kettles of aluminum that material is safe. You can cook the water empty of an aluminum water kettle and that supposedly is safe.
IT SEEMS TO ME THE PROPANE FLAME DETERMINES THE OVERALL HEAT and it does not matter that aluminum is Close in melting Point as lead as Long the temperature stays below 660 degr Celsius.
As I understand: you can heat with propane at constant flame ALL DAY LONG AN ALUMINUM KETTLE WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE TO IT. The heat Level is somewhat constant i believe since out of the propane tank comes a constant stream of propane and heat is equal first hour and as well 8th hour (if you use it lets say for 8 hs).
A propane flame in air can reach 1980C.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_burner
If your burner cannot melt your aluminum container, then that means that the amount of BTUs that are output by the burner does not exceed the amount of BTUs that the container can radiate to the surrounding environment, thus not allowing the temperature of the container to rise above a certain level. For the temperature to rise, BTUsin must be greater than BTUsout.
blackthorn
08-30-2016, 12:54 PM
Quote "Aluminum may work but max lead weight is about 1 Kg (2 lbs) in order to not stress the hot aluminum water kettles. I anyways do not cast more than 50 bullets/slugs at once since I do not shoot that much anyways. I may stick with aluminum for casting material if I stay under 2 lbs of weight in those kettles. Laddles seem to me too dangerous since hot lead can drip down which can not happen with These classic (aluminum) water Kettles. Their design is inherently safe in my opinion."
The amount of lead you will melt is not the issue. The issue is weather the Aluminum will stand the repeated insult of being used to melt lead time after time. Several people here have pointed out the danger involved in doing it your way and you seem to be convinced they are wrong and you appear to be determined to do it your way. Well---I hope you never have to find out the hard way that they are right. There have been several postings in threads in this forum of actual experiences where people have had Aluminum pots fail. These posts are still here if you want to search for them (I do not have the time or inclination to go find them). If you decide to ignore the sound advice offered--- I will be glad to hold your beer and watch! Good luck.
Der Gebirgsjager
08-30-2016, 02:38 PM
175502
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 02:53 PM
There have been several postings in threads in this forum of actual experiences where people have had Aluminum pots fail. These posts are still here if you want to search for them (I do not have the time or inclination to go find them). If you decide to ignore the sound advice offered--- I will be glad to hold your beer and watch! Good luck.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?112368-What-I-did-Friday-after-Work
Pine Baron
08-30-2016, 03:30 PM
175502
New fluxing technique?
Der Gebirgsjager
08-30-2016, 03:59 PM
New fluxing technique?
:lol: Nah.. just showing my ladle and cast iron melting pot to our South American amigo. As you can see, it's waiting for the next big melt, with all the scrap thrown in. A friend of mine had a couple of old cast iron pans for making cornbread that he insisted on using for ingot molds. Actually it worked out quite well, and they're just a bit bigger than the rectangular Lyman ingot molds. I set this old pot on a big propane burner made for outdoor cooking and fire it up. When it melts I flux with a small chunk or two of paraffin or candle wax, maybe a couple of times, skim off the wheel weight clips, bullet jackets, etc., and have at it. Has worked well for me for years. Only temperature control is experience. :lol:
Pine Baron
08-30-2016, 04:38 PM
Lol, I was just:kidding:. However, some may be unfamiliar with the "cornbread" ingots. Personally, I throw a handful of sawdust and half a tea candle into the pot.
I will then stop casting with These aluminum kettles and buy a cast iron one.
Today I shot another 3 cast bullets from the pistol and 8 Lee cast 125 grain Truncated Cone tumble lube from the revolver using Texaco Marfac Lithium grease as bullet lube.
Can not see any leading if the Barrels are looked closely from inside. Whiped it with a Hopes 9 brass cleaning brush and a oiled Cloth and no lead peaces coming out. i figure that means it does not lead more than normal.
I could not hit very much but probably that is just me.
Those 125 grain lead bullets have more Penetration as do the FMJ as it seems to me. At 25 meters the bullet easily penetrated a 3/4" Wood. I shot with those an Tatu as well and those TC (flat meplat) seems to make a bigger hole as FMJ round nose do (and out the Exit wound came the intestines of the Tatu out).
Der Gebirgsjager
08-30-2016, 05:48 PM
It sounds to me like you do not have leading. Your lithium bullet lube seems to work well. If you keep a cautious attitude toward using the shotgun powders you should do well. Casting without wrinkles and frost will improve with practice. So will your pistol marksmanship. Best wishes.
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 05:52 PM
I will then stop casting with These aluminum kettles and buy a cast iron one.
Today I shot another 3 cast bullets from the pistol and 8 Lee cast 125 grain Truncated Cone tumble lube from the revolver using Texaco Marfac Lithium grease as bullet lube.
Can not see any leading if the Barrels are looked closely from inside. Whiped it with a Hopes 9 brass cleaning brush and a oiled Cloth and no lead peaces coming out. i figure that means it does not lead more than normal.
I could not hit very much but probably that is just me.
Those 125 grain lead bullets have more Penetration as do the FMJ as it seems to me. At 25 meters the bullet easily penetrated a 3/4" Wood. I shot with those an Tatu as well and those TC (flat meplat) seems to make a bigger hole as FMJ round nose do (and out the Exit wound came the intestines of the Tatu out).
Do you have a chronograph? That could help eliminate a bit of the guessing.
With an unknown powder like you have in the shotgun shells, I would err on the side of caution and assume it was a really fast powder like Bullseye and use the reloading data for it initially and work up from there. If you are using a revolver, you have an advantage since you don't need to be concerned with having enough power to cycle the slide.
Tatu = armadillo?
A popular form of roadkill here in Texas. :)
You don't *have* to go with cast iron, steel works well also. With aluminum, you're just pushing your luck a bit. Do you have things like resale shops or garage sales where you live? If so, these can be a source for inexpensive used cookware that you can use with lead. A pot that is deeper than it is wider minimizes the surface area of lead that is oxidizing. Something shallow like a skillet is not that great. If you have access to a welder, you can take a piece of steel pipe around 4-6" in diameter and make a pot out of that to whatever depth you require. If you live some place where SCUBA diving is common, one of the old steel tanks that will no longer pass hydrostatic inspection (and thus are scrap as far as the dive shops are concerned) would also make a good casting pot. Since the bottom is normally curved on those types of tanks, you might need to weld some legs to it, but that's not that big of a deal. Of course, you would want to cut it down to an appropriate length -- probably something around 8" in height. The diameter of those old tanks is around 6.9".
No I do not yet have an chronograph. Due to Money reasons since I have to pay all molds I ordered should tey Show up.
An 45 US$ mold here costs all included about 125 US$ each. And I double ordered all 7 types of Lee molds (ordered the same 7 molds by 2 different places) in hopes a few will slip through customs but now it happened there is no Problem of importation.
Yes an Armadillo. Tatu = Nine-banded armadillo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-banded_armadillo) (Dasypus novemcinctus). Yes we have a similar climate than Texas (semiarid) since we are just on the other side of the Equator line.
Local workers eat the armadillo and they are a plague since they make holes in fields and make it uneven for sowing seeds.
I have an semi Auto pistol and a Revolver as you know. Both work well with both type of powders with a Charge of 3.3 grain of eighter powder. Both powder types differentiate about 0.3 grains from each in power Levels. Obviously the pistol has to cycle allways. 3.3 grains with this 125 grain TC Lee cat bullets works with the pistol and Revolver.
Yes the pot has to be high (deeper than broad). No Garage sales here (and if then People try to make Money with it). No I just will buy an appropiate Hardware instead of dealing with modifying old things.
NavyVet1959
08-30-2016, 10:21 PM
Another thing to consider is what is the BTU/hr rating of your gas burner. If it doesn't produce enough BTUs/hr to offset the heat radiated from your container, then it is not going to increase in temperature enough to melt the lead. And even if the BTU/hr rating is high enough, how much of BTUs are going into the container vs getting wasted by going around the container or completely missing it? If you look at the wattage specification of the Lee 20 lb casting pot, you will see that you don't need much wattage as long as it is applied correctly. Wattage equates to BTU/hr. The Lee 20 lb casting pot is only 700W which equates to 2388.5 BTUs/hr.
A Bunsen burner might be a bit low on the BTUs (only around 1200 BTUs/hr), but a variation called a Meker-Fisher burner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meker-Fisher_burner) can produce around 12,000 BTUs/hr. The smaller flame area is going to be better a the smaller diameter casting pot.
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