Evaluation of a classic for (1) Restoration (2) wallhanger???????????

[beezapilot]

So, recent events have put me with time on my hands and hanging out around the house...

So cleaned out the safe and found this lurking waaaaaayyyy in the back, I got it in trade for re-roofing a hunting cabin back about 1973- coincidentally, that trade got me my first reloading set up... but I digress....

The barrel is pretty well shot out, just a ghost of rifling left in it.

I don't have a "machining" gunsmith in my area- I'd like some pointers on evaluating this for cost/value ratio as a restoration project and who / where might I have it done. I know that you can fix anything by throwing enough money at it, but there comes that tipping point where is it not worth the money spent.

Ser- 2931XX- puts it at 1904 manufacture. The man who traded it to me said that he was thinking about converting it to .38 special rather than leave it at 32WCF (32-20).

Any thoughts from those who have worked on this sort of thing???????? Can I save the safe queen???
175142 175143

[Bent Ramrod]

Take the wood off, send the rest of it out for relining and rechambering to .32-20. Put the wood back on, load it and start shooting.

As I understand it, a round barrel was standard on those 92s, but almost nobody ordered one, so it is uncommon. The half magazine is a special order feature. All the original finish looks to be gone, so you could blue it or leave it in the white, as you prefer. It isn't a "prime collector's item," but would be an interesting and valuable shooter.

Or, you could go all-out; have the receiver and lever color casehardened, and rust-blue the rest of the parts.

There are people on this site who do all these jobs. Check the Vendor Sponsors forum.

All it takes is money.:wink:

[Speedo66]

I know people convert Winchester .30-30's to .38-55. If it works with a .32 Spl. that might be a fun conversion. There used to be someone here who did it for a couple of hundred bucks.

[beezapilot]

I checked the Vendor Sponsor page- no luck there. I remember GoodSteel used to do this kind of stuff, but see now that he's gone from the forum.

The finish looks nickel... did they come that way???

The more I look at it the more I want to shoot it.....

[JWT]

Restore it. A beautiful tool should be used.

[KCSO]

A 32-20 barrel liner will run you 110.00 and the machining and rechambering here will run you another $90.00. Re Bluing will run $125.00 and then you will need to see if anything else is broken or missing. If not that's where you start.

[beezapilot]

I've just dis-assembled it and am cleaning the individual pieces, per the instructions all that I've found that is missing is one of the magazine cap screws, everything else seems to be there- it is certainly NOT nickeled, and is in rougher shape than I remembered.

KCSO-those prices seem very reasonable- do you do that kind of work??

[smokeywolf]

Bent Ramrod and KCSO are offering good advice.

[pietro]

I know people convert Winchester .30-30's to .38-55. If it works with a .32 Spl. that might be a fun conversion. There used to be someone here who did it for a couple of hundred bucks.


FWIW, the OP's rifle is a pistol cartridges sized Model 1892/92, and not the longer, rifle cartridge sized Model 1894/94.

beezapilot: Also FWIW -

Has the bluing been removed, or has it been plated ? (IMO, the finish looks too even to be worn/flaked off)


Several years ago, I lucked into a 1907 Model 92 in .32-20 with the same config as your rifle, with brilliant case colors & excellent wood for only $700 because the FFL thought it was a beater with refinished wood & metal (the bore was excellent).

It turned out that Doug Turnbull had it logged into his (re-finishing) book, and I eventually sold it for $3500 in cash & trades (Browning B92 & a Colt Python + $$$).

The moral of the story is that, if you do a good restoration that doesn't go overboard (like a too shiney re-blue & stock finish), it should carry a decent shooter value ($700 or so - .38-40's & .44-40's are more valuable than .25-20 & .32-20 M92's due to Cowboy action demand)

If the metal's plated, it might be worth your while to leave it alone, before you contact the Cody Museum to find out if it was shipped with a Special Order finish or not.


.

[KCSO]

I do the machine work and my buddy does bluing. I am currently re stocking and restoring an old Model 94 a Grandpa's gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

BSA rider,,, Check your PM's.

Randy

[Mk42gunner]

If it was mine, I would be inclined to reline it to the original caliber. .32-20 brass is a lot easier to come by these days than it was in 1973.

I'm of two minds about refinishing it. On one hand, with a quality job, you get what is essentially a new rifle. On the other hand, with the current exterior you won't be bothered by every little smudge that gets on it.

Robert

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Does the action function as it should? If so I would first try to shoot it and then go from there. Cast boolits don't need much rifling to shoot pretty well. Might need a recrown, but if the gun functions and shoots I would call it a day.

If you still want to restore it I would try to make it look like the day it left the factory.

No first hand experience but Turnbull does beautiful restoration work.

[bob208]

first give that barrel a good cleaning. I bought one with a "bad bore" then in talking to the gut found out it was shot with factory lead bullets and with cleaning turned out to be badly leaded up. been shooting the proper cast bullets in it ever since.

[flounderman]

I doubt the barrel is shot out. It could be leaded. I would clean it and shoot it before I did anything to it.

[lefty o]

agree'd, id clean it really good and give it a try.

[fordwannabe]

Excellent advice. I have bought several old winchesters and Marlins with shot out barrels that after a go round with a foul out setup had nice bores. Nobody has ever been able to explain to me how you wear out a steel barrel with a slow moving piece of soft lead.

[John Taylor]

Please don't try to take it 38 special. Getting it to feed is a nightmare. Like the rest say, try shooting it first. If you want to refinish it try Mike Hunter, less money than Turnbull. If it needs a liner, T.J.'s would be the best choice.

[waksupi]

Shoot it before doing anything to it. It may surprise you.

[Tokarev]

Starline makes 32-20 and I used theirs for converting into 8mm French 1892 by cutting short and straightening the neck.
Their 32-30 brass is sort of on the brittle side for my liking (when I am trimming it), but if you are just using it as is, it would work fine.
And the price is very affordable. So one more vote from me for keeping the gun in 32-20!
And yes, do shoot it first as your impression about rifling and the bullet's may be different.

[beezapilot]

Well, I've received some much appreciated information, suggestions, and points of contact- many thanks to one and all- I'm going to leave it 32-20, and should it be required will have the barrel relined ( a very reasonably priced option), additionally will probably have it re-blued, so I've quite a lot o hours of wet-sanding the pits and surface anomalies out of the parts. In dis-assembly and evaluation of parts the gentleman that I got the rifle from had started to modify it to .38 by enlarging the cartridge guides and stops to accommodate the larger diameter cartridge. Numrich has them... but if anyone should know someone parting out a 32-20 Mod 92, I'd be interested in talking to them for those parts.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

So, recent events have put me with time on my hands and hanging out around the house...

So cleaned out the safe and found this lurking waaaaaayyyy in the back, I got it in trade for re-roofing a hunting cabin back about 1973- coincidentally, that trade got me my first reloading set up... but I digress....

The barrel is pretty well shot out, just a ghost of rifling left in it.

I don't have a "machining" gunsmith in my area- I'd like some pointers on evaluating this for cost/value ratio as a restoration project and who / where might I have it done. I know that you can fix anything by throwing enough money at it, but there comes that tipping point where is it not worth the money spent.

Ser- 2931XX- puts it at 1904 manufacture. The man who traded it to me said that he was thinking about converting it to .38 special rather than leave it at 32WCF (32-20).

Any thoughts from those who have worked on this sort of thing???????? Can I save the safe queen???
175142 175143

It looks like an extremely nice 92, and I like the half-magazine, particularly for its short cartridges, as I think accuracy is more likely to be good without the longer tube, another dovetail, and the changing point of balance. It looks as if someone has deliberately polished it bright, for it is too even to be handling wear. There is no accounting for taste, but it looks unpitted.

Yes, it is worth trying with the bore you have, First clean the bore really well, for heavy lead fouling can sometimes make the rifling seem fainter than it really is. Sometimes cast bullets will work better after some shooting with jacketed than they did before.

If it is unsatisfactory there are two ways you could treat it. One is reboring and rerifling to a larger calibre. I would rather go for .38-40 or .44-40 than .38 Special, as they are original cartridges for the rifle. This may require other replacement parts, such as the bolt, cartridge carrier etc. I don't know how easy gunsmith modification of the original parts would be. The chances are that a .38 Special conversion would need these parts as well, the only difference being that they don't exist.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Winchester-33573/Rifles-42602/1892-40288.htm?page=1

The other is to have the bore relined, probably as a .32-20. The tubes available from TJ's are listed in detail on www.trackofthewolf.com (http://www.trackofthewolf.com) , although you can buy them direct from Mike Sayers on sayersms@fuse.net . John Taylor, who posts on this board, has a high reputation for doing this kind of work, and I would be surprised to find others doing as good work cheaper. He claims to be able to make the join invisible at the muzzle. Reboring to a larger size may work out fine, but what do you do if it doesn't? Lining the bore certainly does work out as well as the rifle ever was.

You can pay a lot of money for a bluing job, and in my view modern bright caustic bluing doesn't look right on a rifle like this. Cold blues are of little use, but I have had good results with Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, which you wipe onto metal just hot enough to splutter. After numerous applications and boiling in clean water, you can turn the metal a warm, slightly satin black which looks very appropriate for a rifle like this.

[beezapilot]

It photographs better than it looks, the "polish job" didn't include a block, so the surface is not all that flat, not consistant, with "ripples". So I've block sanded the receiver and lever with 220-400-600 to make it all flat and even, used a dowel on the inside radiuses. The hammer cleaned up well and will be doing the lower tang and trigger today. I like the idea of an older looking finish on this rather than something to try to make it look new. The barrel will get a try before I send it off, but I've scrubbed it well, then (as there was not blueing to worry about) filled the barrel with Evaporust and let it sit over night, made a big difference-lots of brown sludge ran out of it. I don't think this was a leading issue, or a "shot out" issue, but rather a black powder and poor cleaning issue. I've some scrap steel kicking aroud, so may try couple of home done bluing items to see how they look.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Personally I would slow rust blue or brown the exterior and leave the internals in the white. A nice rust blue finish would look nicer and more appropriate than a modern hot blue job.

Here is a picture of a S&W I slow rust blued a while back.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160829/d9135fc9a6d496bf3846b34fd9033585.jpg

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't think this was a leading issue, or a "shot out" issue, but rather a black powder and poor cleaning issue.

That is a common situation. It is very hard to shoot out one of these barrels in only a century or so, with the loads (even smokeless) normally used in them. If you did, you would see it clearly much worse near the chamber, and getting better towards the muzzle.

[reivertom]

Contact these folks and ask them if they can do a re-bore. If they don't do this caliber, they may know somebody who does. I see only good results from this company on different forums. The website name is a bit odd, but I think they are called JES Barrel boring, or something like that.
http://www.35caliber.com/2.html

[John 242]

Personally I would slow rust blue or brown the exterior and leave the internals in the white. A nice rust blue finish would look nicer and more appropriate than a modern hot blue job.

Slow or Express (fast) rust blue on these older guns looks very nice, so I have to +1 your suggestion.
There are many gunsmiths that would do a great rust blue job on that rifle. I wouldn't suggest that the OP do it himself. It's definitely possible, but there's a little bit of a learning curve and a rifle is a bit harder to do than a pistol or smaller gun. Still, it's his gun so if he want to give it a shot, more power to him.

I would also look into the barrel lining option if the bore is rusted out.

To the OP: I personally prefer a customer leave the gun alone and not try to polish it out himself. I have a certain methodology I use to try to keep rounds round, flats flat and sharp edges intact. I'm not criticizing your work, you may be a fantastic metal finisher, but not everyone is. Sometimes corners get rounded, lettering gets removed, etc. and 600-grit is a little too fine for rust bluing, but others will likely have a contrary opinion on that.

On a slightly different note, there's a difference between restoring and refinishing.
In restoring, your trying to return the gun to it's factory original condition, or as close as possible. A true restoration can be very expensive. Doug Turnbull's name was mentioned and he can definitely do the job if that's what the OP wants. Doug's guys will get the gun as close to factory specs as possible, including the proper metal and stock finish. In some cases he can even restore the lettering. His services aren't 'cheap' but they are exceptional in quality. Of course there are others that do that sort of work, but a true restoration is not simply a rust blue job and refinishing the stock. Most people don't want a true restoration because of the expense and not all guns are worth the money. Turnbull's color case work is beautiful.

Turnbull Winchester 92-
176408
http://www.turnbullmfg.com/gun-category/gun-gallery/rifles-winchester/

(http://www.turnbullmfg.com/gun-category/gun-gallery/rifles-winchester/)

[Texas by God]

I'd like to peek in that safe! Clean it, shoot it, if all's well brown it. It's easy and will look right. Good luck,