Lyman Broken Handles

[bouncer50]

Well i broke my spare mold handle. Damm Lyman break handle by the screw in the mold. Is their way to weld them back up. Like to braze them or mig weld them. They are not cheap to replace $$$$$ either. Or are their other handle can be used instead of Lyman that are cheaper and a better design then Lyman weak spot where they break.

[mac60]

I'm not arguing whether they are "better" or not, but the Lee handles for their 6 cavity moulds are cheaper and they can be adapted for use on an awful lot of other mfrs. moulds.

[jeepyj]

I had a set brazed once. They lasted for a while then broke in the same spot.
Jeepyj

[454PB]

I've braze repaired a few, so far, so good.

[rancher1913]

I broke one and then rethought my process that caused it, now I tap in a different spot and so far so good.

[country gent]

I believe I would put a pice of carbon round in the hole and tig weld over that with a soft filler the wall thickness is very thin at this point and any "hard filler is liable to be brittle in this thin cross section. I would start by grinding a U down the handles where it is to be welded. fit a piece of carbon round stock size of screw hole into it and tig weld (Mig weld could be done also but harder to control fill and flows). Once welded pack in sand or other hot medium to slow cool and keep soft. Clean up weld as needed remove carbon and tru hole if required. Gringing the u channel gives a little more thickness to the weld allowing it to be stronger.

[MT Chambers]

The Lees are made of pot metal and break fairly easily, however mold handles should not be used in a manner that causes them to break. I seldom use anything by Lee yet I still have 3 broken sets of Lee handles but have never broke Lyman, RCBS, or Saeco handles.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have a set of SC handles that someone broke (through the mould block screw hole) and repaired by drilling and tapping holes in the outside of the broken ends and bolting a strip of metal along the outside. The metal strip is the same depth as the broken part and so does not interfere with the mould blocks. The bolts are deep enough and the fit of the broken pieces is tight enough so nothing flexes, even when it's hot.

[mac60]

The Lees are made of pot metal and break fairly easily, however mold handles should not be used in a manner that causes them to break. I seldom use anything by Lee yet I still have 3 broken sets of Lee handles but have never broke Lyman, RCBS, or Saeco handles.

Lee mould handles are not made out of "pot metal". They're steel. Apparently, Lee handles are not the only ones that break. The thread is about a set of Lyman handles that broke. Post #1, 3, 4 & 5 were made by people that have broken Lyman handles (one person said he has broken several). Lyman handles are more than twice what Lee handles cost, which is reason enough for many to buy them.

[bouncer50]

Lee mould handles are not made out of "pot metal". They're steel. Apparently, Lee handles are not the only ones that break. The thread is about a set of Lyman handles that broke. Post #1, 3, 4 & 5 were made by people that have broken Lyman handles (one person said he has broken several). Lyman handles are more than twice what Lee handles cost, which is reason enough for many to buy them. Thanks for the kind words. Your right about the cost of Lyman handle around 40 bucks for that price i can buy two new Lee handles and some spare change back. The weak spot is where the hole is drill metal is thin compare to the rest of the metal. The heating and cooling stress the metal in thinner part of the hole which i believe is why they break at the weak point. Instead of redesigning the mold for a larger part of the handle metal is under less stress at the weak point of the handle hole. But they make money selling handles

[MT Chambers]

Lee mould handles are not made out of "pot metal". They're steel. Apparently, Lee handles are not the only ones that break. The thread is about a set of Lyman handles that broke. Post #1, 3, 4 & 5 were made by people that have broken Lyman handles (one person said he has broken several). Lyman handles are more than twice what Lee handles cost, which is reason enough for many to buy them.
I beg to differ, the Lees are "scintered metal" ie: pot metal......I've got some broken ones beside me!!

[mac60]

I beg to differ, the Lees are "scintered metal" ie: pot metal......I've got some broken ones beside me!!

OK - I e-mailed Lee and asked them. They said they are scintered steel - which is pot metal. So I was wrong about that (you were right). Given your irrational hatred for Lee Precision I'm absolutely shocked you have anything on your bench made by Lee. Lee isn't the only mfr. of reloading equipment that makes something that wears out or breaks. Everything doesn't have to be machined out of Swedish tool steel to do a given job.

edit: You keep using the term "pot metal" - more research is needed to find out what the term actually means. Lee is saying scintered steel - is that pot metal? Or is "pot metal" some other alloy? I'm gonna find out.

[bouncer50]

Well i look it up. The primary component of pot-metal is zinc. Sintering steel metal such as iron copper and aluminum is made into Sintering steel. So sintering steel is a higher grade of pot-metal what i understand.

[Dutchman]

Two Lee mold handles. Top mold is Lyman 2 cavity, bottom is RCBS 2 cavity.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqkgwqsqbsgbgtfxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/tdtrwsfxbsgbrssfg/4/28344/9430776/photo-vi.jpg

The RCBS mold requires handles with about .300" arm thickness. You can see where they were milled.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqkgwqswqtwddsfxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/swbggrtrrxkdtfgttdq/4/28344/9430776/photo-vi.jpg


You can see what looks like copper particles in the Lee handles.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqkgwqswqbkrtwtxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/rtkwwfdgsxtsqsrkfs/4/28344/9430776/photo1-vi.jpg

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqkgwqswwddwrqtxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/rqqbkwgdxkfkkgwgqs/4/28344/9430776/photo-vi.jpg

From Wikipedia:

Sintering is the process of compacting and forming a solid mass of material by heat[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering#cite_note-1)and/or pressure[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering#cite_note-2) without melting it to the point of liquefaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering

From Google:

Pot metal—also known as monkey metal, white metal, or die-cast zinc—is a colloquial term that refers to alloys of low-melting point metals that manufacturers use to make fast, inexpensive castings.

Dutch

[MT Chambers]

Bottom line is that it is a cheaper way to make things, instead of using real steel, even the sprue plate is made of "sintered steel" on Lee 6 cav. molds. The use of "die cast" aluminum, sintered steel, etc. reduces cost to manufacture and is the reason Lee is less expensive than other makes.

[MT Gianni]

AS a 25+ year caster with over 30 Lyman molds how are you breaking handles? I have yet to do so or come close.

[mac60]

Well i look it up. The primary component of pot-metal is zinc. Sintering steel metal such as iron copper and aluminum is made into Sintering steel. So sintering steel is a higher grade of pot-metal what i understand.

OK - so I guess to say that the Lee handles are made of "pot metal" would be correct terminology. I did a little research on what other mfrs. handles are made of. This is what I came up with:

Lyman cast iron
RCBS steel
Saeco ductile iron castings

Everything does not need to be machined from a billet of solid steel to be a useful product. I own six sets of Lee handles and have used them extensively. I've never broken a set (I'm NOT saying they can't be broken - just that I've never broken a set).
Bouncer50 - you should be able to have your handles brazed. If the break is close to a screw hole maybe they could build up a little metal and redrill the hole for you.
Dutchman - obviously, you could have Lyman handles on the Lyman mould and RCBS handles on the RCBS mould - just curious as to why both moulds are wearing Lee handles.

edit: I have it on good authority that sintered steel is still steel. It's just formed instead of machined. The term "pot metal" refers to an alloy containing zinc (e.g. zamak).

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Want some good handles ?
contact Red River Rick
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?56554-KAL-Mould-Handles

Also, NOE makes some fines handles as well

[jbutts6785]

Want some good handles ?
contact Red River Rick
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?56554-KAL-Mould-Handles

Also, NOE makes some fines handles as well

Yep. His handles are the best.

[mazo kid]

AS a 25+ year caster with over 30 Lyman molds how are you breaking handles? I have yet to do so or come close.
I was wondering the same thing.....I have been casting balls and boolits since the early 70s, have umpteen different mold makes along with handles and have (knock on wood!) yet to break any. What are you doing to break handles? A light tap with a wooden striker usually gets any sticky boolit to fall from the mold, for me anyway.

[MT Chambers]

OK - so I guess to say that the Lee handles are made of "pot metal" would be correct terminology. I did a little research on what other mfrs. handles are made of. This is what I came up with:

Lyman cast iron
RCBS steel
Saeco ductile iron castings

Everything does not need to be machined from a billet of solid steel to be a useful product. I own six sets of Lee handles and have used them extensively. I've never broken a set (I'm NOT saying they can't be broken - just that I've never broken a set).
Bouncer50 - you should be able to have your handles brazed. If the break is close to a screw hole maybe they could build up a little metal and redrill the hole for you.
Dutchman - obviously, you could have Lyman handles on the Lyman mould and RCBS handles on the RCBS mould - just curious as to why both moulds are wearing Lee handles.

edit: I have it on good authority that sintered steel is still steel. It's just formed instead of machined. The term "pot metal" refers to an alloy containing zinc (e.g. zamak).

ir
You're "good authority" is very wrong........try bending the pot metal handles, they will snap easily....then try it with another make....no way.....I think you are trying to make this into a Lee peeeing match, but I'm not buying it. Lee make the handles like they do because it is cheaper, period, it has nothing to do with strength.

[mac60]

Sintered steel does not have those properties. It would be my guess (and it is just a guess) that Lyman's handles and Saeco's handles would do the same thing. The RCBS handles probably wouldn't. They aren't made to be put in a vice and bent anyway - they are intended to hold a bullet mould so that you can manipulate it to cast bullets. The handles Lee makes are absolutely without a doubt strong enough to do the job as intended. I know this to be fact because I own 6 pair of them and have used them quite a bit without breaking one of them. Choosing materials to manufacture a given item because of their cost is just sound business practice. As far as a "Lee peeeing match" - those are your words, not mine.

[country gent]

Having machined and reworked several manufacturers handles, from broken out small holes to repairing cracks and wear, Here is my observations. Lymans are softer and machine similar to cast iron when cutting filing, RCBS machine and file similar to boiler plate or forgings. The Lee 6 cavity handles are hard, had to open holes up for a mould with bigger screws and they cut with very small chips and very hard they seemed harder ( almost to the point of brittle. he one set I filed in to get better alighnment seemed the same, drawfiling produced very fine dust like chips. not the strings I normally see. While the Lees can be files it is hard on the file and produces more heat when cutting. They are all good handles and do the job.

[TXGunNut]

I have a set of Lyman handles that loosened up early on, never was able to tighten them up. I started buying Lee handles after that and put them on every new mould until NOE started making them. NOE's handles may cost a bit more than Lee's but I'll put them on my favorite moulds and quite likely any new moulds. The wood handles don't come off and they just seem to work better, not sure why. Come to think of it I think I'm out of handles....again! ;-)

[Hardcast416taylor]

I have 2 pair of the `New and Improved` Lyman mold handles. The metal tangs are bent so the handles won`t close without hitting together at the ends. I cut the handles back to the first groove up from the bottom - problem solved! Now I have a broken tang on 1 set and I`m seeing tiny cracks on the other set. I`m thinking that these mold handles might make decent fishing sinkers?Robert

[MT Chambers]

The material Lee uses is the same pot metal that is used on the Sprue plate handle that breaks frequently, luckily some folks have stepped up to make replacements out of steel.

[bouncer50]

I just got my lee mold handle two of them to try out. For my Lyman molds i will see for myself how they hold up compare to Lyman handles. Two Lees for the price of one Lyman handles.

[mac60]

[QUOTE=bouncer50;3759645]I just got my lee mold handle two of them to try out. For my Lyman molds i will see for myself how they hold up compare to Lyman handles. Two Lees for the price of one Lyman handles.[/QUOTE

I'd be very interested to hear your opinion.

[762sultan]

I have had this problem with Lyman handles also. i have broken one by hitting the leg of the handle instead of at the pivot point. This was solved easily by removing the mold, cleaning it, and seasoning it. Then i installed it onto a set of handles made by Red River Rick. Problem was solved and i hit at the pivot point now. It was money well spent.

[Chill Wills]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MT Gianni http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3753792#post3753792)
AS a 25+ year caster with over 30 Lyman molds how are you breaking handles? I have yet to do so or come close.



I was wondering the same thing.....I have been casting balls and boolits since the early 70s, have umpteen different mold makes along with handles and have (knock on wood!) yet to break any. What are you doing to break handles? A light tap with a wooden striker usually gets any sticky boolit to fall from the mold, for me anyway.

BINGO ! There are ways to cast that do not require beating the daylights out of the mold and handles. I have a 'used mold' buying habit. I need to quit but I can't stop 8-):kidding: but the number of mold abusers out there still amaze me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have had this problem with Lyman handles also. i have broken one by hitting the leg of the handle instead of at the pivot point. This was solved easily by removing the mold, cleaning it, and seasoning it. Then i installed it onto a set of handles made by Red River Rick. Problem was solved and i hit at the pivot point now. It was money well spent.


I have 2 pair of the `New and Improved` Lyman mold handles. The metal tangs are bent so the handles won`t close without hitting together at the ends. I cut the handles back to the first groove up from the bottom - problem solved! Now I have a broken tang on 1 set and I`m seeing tiny cracks on the other set. I`m thinking that these mold handles might make decent fishing sinkers?Robert

Is Lyman having these NEW handles imported ?

Photo below is from a recent Facebook post, when questioned, the person posting the photo claims he has arthritic thumbs and doesn't have a death grip.

211944

[Grmps]

I have cast tons of boolits with the Lee 6 and Lyman handles. the only broken handle I have came to me in a trade/deal/? and is saved for parts.
If you have to do more than tap gently on the hinge to release the boolits your mold needs attention/work and/or your temperature (s) are not right. I found that if I put slight pressure in spreading the handles with a light tap on the hinge, the boolits just pop out. rubbing a piece of wood (I use a pencil) along the edges of the mold cavities and lube grooves helps remove burs, occasionally the cavity (ies) need a quick polish with super fine compound.
I found that a 4 oz leather mallet works great for casting and many things gun related.

I would convert a Lee before buying any expensive handles.

[Alstep]

Years ago when I first started casting, I bought a couple of new molds & handles from Lyman. Both handles broke early on. I just tap my molds lightly with a small rawhide hammer to release boolits. I NEVER beat any precision mold or tool. I called Lyman and they replaced both handles. Haven't broken a handle since, they may have just had a bad batch. Don't know if they'll do that today any more.

[john.k]

It should be pointed out that Lyman handles are made from either malleable cast iron(early) or ductile /SG cast iron (late)....and so cannot be welded without ruining the metal in the melt zone........these irons must be brazed with a high test filler ,such as nickel bronze.......IMHO RCBS handles are punched sheet steel,and there fore unbreakable in any possible use...If you flog your molds to death...expect breakages.

[country gent]

In industry "pot" metal is a aluminum zinc alloy that's cast to form. its gummy and not overly strong with out real pressure on the shot tube when casting. It cast around 1400*. Sintered metal is a powdered metal ( steel usually but also carbide or tungsten are also sintered) and formed in a die under high heat and pressure, usually to finished dimensions. It can be hard. Ball joints used to be forged and then for awhile were sintered metals formed. The sintered metal saves a lot of machining time deburring and finishing. I have the lee handles and had to thin the fingers a little. a file cut them regular filing wasn't near as effective as draw filing was. They were very tough. they are also magnetic so some form of steel.
I actually prefer the locking handles until they were changed when sold. Now not as much.
Actually the harder handles may be more of an issue since as hardness goes up so does brittleness. Maybe handles made from d-2 die steel would be best. But would be expensive.

[john.k]

Lee have gone for sinter components in a big way,and i suspect they have invested heavily in the technology,and intend to make maximum use.The small lee molds still have stamped steel handles,though.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lee have gone for sinter components in a big way,and i suspect they have invested heavily in the technology,and intend to make maximum use.The small lee molds still have stamped steel handles,though.

I wonder if the New base for the econo-Turret press and soon to be new base for the Pro-1000 is Sintered metal?

[Mal Paso]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MT Gianni http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3753792#post3753792)
AS a 25+ year caster with over 30 Lyman molds how are you breaking handles? I have yet to do so or come close.




BINGO ! There are ways to cast that do not require beating the daylights out of the mold and handles. I have a 'used mold' buying habit. I need to quit but I can't stop 8-):kidding: but the number of mold abusers out there still amaze me.

Lyman handles are cast. Castings can have hidden voids and flaws. I wouldn't automatically blame the user.

[bob208]

I started casting in 71.was hand dipping from a home made pot in a potbelly stove. friend dropped my handles they broke through the screw hole. sent them back to lyman got a new set two weeks later. never broke another set.