.358 Winchester

[300blk]

I'm considering rebuilding a Mauser action into .358 Winchester.
its velocities seem in the ideal range for cast, with the mass to make a helluva hunting rifle.

talk me into/ out of this

what twist rate would you recommend?

any specific mold for hunting?

[35 shooter]

Would be an absolutely awesome hunting rifle and cast boolit shooter.
Noe 360200, or the noe 360230 should work well in a .358 and are super accurate in my 35 whelen.

Even with the shorter neck of the .358, i would just "have to try" the noe 360009(358009 clone). The check might wind up a bit below the neck, but if it sized on good and tight, i wouldn't be concerned about it...but that's just me.
The 35's are awesome hunting rifles and darned accurate to boot.

Btw, my 1/14 twist whelen handles all three of those boolit weights easily and accurately.
So a 1/12 or 1/14 twist would be my choice on twist rate.

[Mk42gunner]

If I had been casting rifle boolits when I built my Whelen, it would have been a .358.

1:14" works for just about any sane load in a .35 caliber rifle.

Robert

[300blk]

Thanks!

I'm thinking of setting it up in a "semi-scout" configuration.
keeping the original stripper clip guide for use, aperture rear and "winged" front sight post
18-20" med contour barrel, along with an appropriate thread pitch for a muzzle break/form 1 can down the line, the break may prove unnecessary. But I'm hoping to keep this under about 7-6.5# in total.
Might have to hunt down a 1:12 blank somewhere. (Just in case I'd wanna run subs)

Any other opinions are certainly welcome!

This is a far cry from the usual fare for me.

[300blk]

Any recommendations for powder selection?
any experience forming from 308 win?
New brass seems difficult to come by, if an exceptionally difficult process, I may just buy from GRUMPA. Seems like with in the neck lube it could be done in one pass.

[RPRNY]

I like 4895 and 4227 for the 35 Krag, which has a grain or two more case capacity- and a lovely long neck - but loads very similar to the 358 Win.

[Reverend Al]

I only have a small quantity of factory brass for the .358 Winchester I built recently and I need to reform a bunch of .308 brass to fit it. I have tapered neck expanders that I can use to "taper" the necks from .30 up to .35, but I could also fire-form them with cornmeal loads too. Has anyone here had any better success with one method over the other? Some people claim that the tapered neck expanders can leave the necks a little bit off kilter and not true to the rest of the case. Anyone care to comment on that? Personally I kind of like the idea of the tapered expanders and have used them in the past on other cartridges I've reformed since I can expand the original necks to oversize for the application and then size them back down to "crush fit" on the newly created "false" shoulder to headspace the reformed cases correctly in my rifles. What are your thoughts?

[Piedmont]

Reforming .358s from .308s is exceptionally easy, just run a lubed case (including inside the neck) through the sizer die. On this Mauser conversion you may want to take into account its original chambering. It might be a 7x57 or 8x57 and you might want to make your rifle a 9x57 so nothing gets changed with the feed geometry.

[GRUMPA]

Any recommendations for powder selection?
any experience forming from 308 win?
New brass seems difficult to come by, if an exceptionally difficult process, I may just buy from GRUMPA. Seems like with in the neck lube it could be done in one pass.

It's easier to do than you may think. The biggest issue is holding the shoulder (AKA Gauge Dimension) and sometimes dies need to be altered in order to hold it in the right location.

This is how I check the (SHOULDER) gauge dimension.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134544&d=1426859682

[Texas by God]

Do it! You' ll love the .358 Win. Best, Thomas.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Hornady brass has been available recently. I really like Accurate 2015 for 200 grain, used to use 4895 for 225's, now TAC under a 225 Partition will be my elk load. 1-12 would be fine. Feeding in a 98 Mauser may need 'tinkering/adjusting' of the feed rails VERY CAREFULLY. I've fireformed military 7.62, neck expanding works OK. I lubricate cases when fire forming or on first firing to get shoulder in 'right' place. My Savage 99's have 'generous headspace. When rebarreling, an absolute minimum headspace chamber will help when using resized 308 or 7.62. The RCBS 200 Flatnose or the NOE clone work well. The NOE 35XCB works better in the wind, but the flat point is better for hunting with cast. The .358 is just a very fine cartridge, it is far more than a brush buster (whatever that is).

[Bjornb]

Reforming .358s from .308s is exceptionally easy, just run a lubed case (including inside the neck) through the sizer die. On this Mauser conversion you may want to take into account its original chambering. It might be a 7x57 or 8x57 and you might want to make your rifle a 9x57 so nothing gets changed with the feed geometry.

This is very good advice. The .358 Win could be a tad short for perfect feed in a Mauser 98 action. Goodsteel (now unjustly banned) developed the 35 XCB (35x57) which is formed from either 7 or 8 mm Mauser cases (the easy way), or from 30-06/Win 270 cases (the cheap way). The cartridge feeds perfectly, has a little more powder capacity than the 358 Win, and has the longer neck of the 7x57 for better seating of cast bullets.

[NoAngel]

My biggest gripe with the .358 Win is that it took so long to find it's way to me.

It may be the finest cast bullet cartridge ever. It's certainly the finest 'I' have ever loaded.

I use a 230g thor over 3031
Chronographs 1880 fps and it will group under an inch at 100 yards ALL day.

I would LOVE to have a Mauser. My 358 is built from a 357 mag handi rifle barrel on an sb2 frame. A manson reamer and bam, .358 Handi Rifle

You will not regret it.

[Smoke4320]

wonderful cast bullet rifle ..
1-14 3 groove bored by JES . Its as accurate as YOU can hold it still

I will second the 2nd post recommendation "Noe 360200, or the noe 360230 should work well in a .358 and are super accurate"

the NOE copy of the RCBS 35-200 in HP is my favorite (and my rifles) :)

[Smoke4320]

174804

This is the third group fired after developing the load .. all were comparable sizes..
If you notice its slightly left of center
next is the very next group fired at 200 yds .. fired 4 rds... all hit left.. then I reset/zeroed scope for a center shot and called it good

174806

[white eagle]

I built a 358 on a model 70 action
so far have used it to harvest elk and whitetail deer
2015 is the powder I like best
I believe mine is a 1/10 or 1/12 twist but all I know is
it is very accurate
I also use a 260 gr.cast from mountain molds
tone it down with a lesser charge of 2400 with exceptional accuracy
a fine cartridge indeed

[300blk]

On this Mauser conversion you may want to take into account its original chambering. It might be a 7x57 or 8x57 and you might want to make your rifle a 9x57 so nothing gets changed with the feed geometry.

That's correct, there will have to be some minor changes to properly feed, but this action was salvaged from a trainwreck of an Israeli 7.62 capture/conversion, all I'm worried about now is the nose width/length, should be fairly straightforward.

Thanks to all for the powder and boolit recommendations!

GRUMPA: thats very informative, I just won a set of .358 Redding dies on eBay, when I get a little closer I will shoot you a pm with specific questions if I encounter any (if that's alright with you)

Smoke: that's some fine shooting, what does 35-200 weigh, once hollow pointed?
i hadn't thought about reboring, I think I've got a 7mm Mauser barrel take off around somewhere... Think that would be a good candidate?

Edit: maybe a good option, but not a the cost of a new barrel, or twice the cost of a blank.

[GRUMPA]

GRUMPA: thats every informative, I just won a set of .358 Redding dies on eBay, when I get a little closer I will shoot you a pm with specific questions if I encounter any (if that's alright with you)

Not a problem, I get more than a few PM's with questions attached.....

And for your sake.....I hope you didn't get LEE dies for that project..

[300blk]

Nope, Redding dies. Have there been issues with the Lee dies in that caliber?

[GRUMPA]

With all the case forming I do the LEE dies are the worst out there. For regular loading for the most part they do just fine, but for forming.....don't go down that road.

[300blk]

That's a new one on me, but I'm gonna take you as a credible source on the matter.

[Smoke4320]

That's correct, there will have to be some minor changes to properly feed, but this action was salvaged from a trainwreck of an Israeli 7.62 capture/conversion, all I'm worried about now is the nose width/length, should be fairly straightforward.

Thanks to all for the powder and boolit recommendations!

GRUMPA: thats very informative, I just won a set of .358 Redding dies on eBay, when I get a little closer I will shoot you a pm with specific questions if I encounter any (if that's alright with you)

Smoke: that's some fine shooting, what does 35-200 weigh, once hollow pointed?
i hadn't thought about reboring, I think I've got a 7mm Mauser barrel take off around somewhere... Think that would be a good candidate?

Edit: maybe a good option, but not a the cost of a new barrel, or twice the cost of a blank.

Wow I just noticed the mold description Its actually the NOE copy of the RCBS 200 HP
NOE-360-200-FN RG4 (HP)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_311&products_id=356

Mine actually weigh right at 200 after gas check and Pc'ing

[Texas by God]

My powder of choice so far is IMR4895, I use CH dies I won on EBay; they form .308s into .358s perfectly. My Rem700/JES rebore is sub MOA with Sierra 200gr RN at 2300 fps. I haven't got a proper Rifle mould yet but it shoots 158gr RN cast very well with IMR4198 @50yds. Fun Gun. Best, Thomas.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

the 358 Winchester would get my vote for the best cast bullet cartridge ever made. I would have voted 30-30 other than feeding issues in a bolt rifle.
Regular Mauser 98 box will let you seat even the old 358009 with the base even with the neck shoulder junction. If I did not have a super accurate 9,3x62 M98 that shot cast in the 1 moa range out to 200yds, a 358 would be my next project.

[300blk]

Thanks for your input Texas and Idaho, respectively.
I was thinking of a pun involving states... But, I got nothin'
I lost an auction today, that had every part I needed for the Mauser build on eBay.
Climbed 200% in the last 5 minutes.
So this project is gonna take a little longer than I had anticipated.
Gonna need to turn up a .358 win finishing reamer too, that's gonna be a hard one.
Please continue with the input and experience! It's been very helpful so far.

[RPRNY]

I just want to reiterate a point made above in case it sneaked by you. The 8x57 chamber is a quarter inch longer than the 358 Win, so it's not just a case of finishing up the 8x57 chamber. It really wants a new barrel and there may still be feeding issues.

On the other hand, a 9x57, which will be in between the 358 Win and the 35 Whelen would require nothing more than a trip to JES rebore. 1:14 Twist. Jesse might be able to make a nice long slow taper throat perfect for the longest boolit you can fit in the magazine. 8x57 will neck to 358 just as easily as 308 will, in fact, just a little bit easier.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[300blk]

Thanks, a new barrel is definitely going to happen.
A chamber reamer rental and barrel blank are still cheaper than the reboring service.
I'm sure he does great work, but I don't have a donor barrel for it anyway.

[CptnBarney]

With all the case forming I do the LEE dies are the worst out there. For regular loading for the most part they do just fine, but for forming.....don't go down that road.

Mind elaborating some more please? I have Lee 358Win dies and have reformed once-fired 308Win and 243Win to 358Win with no issue whatsoever.

[HandgunHTR]

I did exactly what you are talking about a few years ago. Mine was a Turk Mauser that I sent to ER Shaw for a rebarrel. Put a Bold trigger with safety, a new bolt shroud and a Tubb's Speedlock firing pin in it. Laid it all in a Boyds laminated stock. It is a shooter for sure. Haven't shot cast out of it, but mine (1-12" twist) is right at MOA with 180-250 grain bullets. It really isn't that finicky either.

As for feeding, I have not had a problem (no mods). With those fat bullets and almost no shoulder, the bullets slide up pretty well as long as I don't "limp wrist" my bolt work.

[Sur-shot]

Years ago I hunted with a WWII vet that had a 358 Win Pre 64 feather weight rifle and it was a deadly deer rifle, fast to handle and very accurate. So I always wanted one but got side tracked many times by many cartridges. Shot a 357 Herrett for several years while moving steel. I had an old set of Redding Dies and a spare AR-15 set so decided to put together a 357 Herrett AR just for fun. Well in the process I found a guy that is building 358 barrels for the AR-15 for a cartridge based on the 6.8 SPC necked up. I bought one barrel, a 20 twist then another barrel, a 12 twist and have been playing with them for over a year now. The NOE copy of the 200 PB RCBS that is PCed is very accurate and the 2,400 fps load stout enough to make you like a recoil pad. When loaded with 1680 will produce 358 Win factory book stats for 24 inch barrel with a jacketed bullet out of a 16 inch carbine barrel without leading. The barrels and dies are sold by MGP Custom. The .5 inch group is a fireform load out of a little light weight carbine pictured.
Ed

PS: This makes one hell of a truck gun. Gives a new meaning to Found On the Road Dead.

[NoAngel]

I am of the opinion that had the .358 came out at another point in time, it would be a household name. Alas, it came along when all the big magnums were stomping around new and it died. Sad. It really is just about as fine a short action centerfire cartridge as you could ever ask for.


Sur-shot, that is SO very tempting! I have been seeing buckets of 6.8 brass at my range. No one wants the stuff. Hmmmm..........