RCBS primer pocket swager, working or not - I'm not even sure

[Lug1]

Good evening everyone. I've been reading on this forum-site many times when searching on Google. I guess now it's time to ask a question.

I've run a search on this one and called RCBS, too. But I can't get to the bottom of this, mostly due to contradicting information.

I have .223 brass lying around that I'm sure has a crimped pocket. I'm not at all an expert on crimped primer pockets but the give away is the extra ring visible.
The tiny black line is pointing at that ring.

1. Can anyone confirm this is actually (still) a crimped pocket. ("Still" because it was run through the swager die.)

https://s3.postimg.org/50puszd0j/swage.jpg

2. I called RCBS, they told me the ring is not supposed to come out when using their swager, but running the case through that process will "take care of the crimp", and that's what left me confused.

Any information from folks more experienced with this is greatly appreciated,
Thank you.

[Tonto]

Great tool that RCBS swager. Hard to tell with just an "after" photo, I'd ask did you feel resistance when you lowered the case onto the tool? Did it take a little extra push to kick the case off the tool? Compare the before and after and if it looks like you've moved some brass, try and seat a primer and see how it goes, safely too. Once the tool is adjusted, it goes pretty quick. Often you can see some shine on the pocket edge where the brass was moved. I don't see it in the photo. Good luck.

[imashooter2]

The swage ring will remain on your brass. The tool just moves the brass that was displaced by that swage back out of the pocket. Your picture could show decrimped brass or crimped brass. Visually, they will be identical.

[Lug1]

Great tool that RCBS swager. Hard to tell with just an "after" photo, I'd ask did you feel resistance when you lowered the case onto the tool? Did it take a little extra push to kick the case off the tool? Compare the before and after and if it looks like you've moved some brass, try and seat a primer and see how it goes, safely too. Once the tool is adjusted, it goes pretty quick. Often you can see some shine on the pocket edge where the brass was moved. I don't see it in the photo. Good luck.


The swage ring will remain on your brass. The tool just moves the brass that was displaced by that swage back out of the pocket. Your picture could show decrimped brass or crimped brass. Visually, they will be identical.

Oh, I see. So the ring stays.

Yes, when following the instructions and using the "quarter turn at a time" method, there comes a point where in order to remove the casing from the swagger head - there's quite a bit of resistance, and then the casing pops off the head as if it was spring loaded.

That's very helpful, thank you.

I already know how it feels to seat a new primer in those casings (don't ask me how). I'll go ahead and try to seat primers onto the swaged cases, to see If I fell a difference.

[VHoward]

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/swage-gage-primer-pocket-gauge-prod71030.aspx
I bought one of these primer pocket swage gages. It will tell you if the primer pocket is crimped, not crimped or too loose. It has 2 ends. If neither end will go into the pocket, then you have a crimped pocket. If one end goes in but the other end does not, then the pocket is not crimped and good to go. If both ends go in the pocket, then the pocket is definitely not crimped and is too large for a good fit of the primer.

[jmorris]

I have the RCBS die/mandrel swage that is used with a single stage top left.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20150120_102721_411-1_zps5ce96744.jpg

It will take a crimped case like the one on the right and make it look like the one on the left.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/swage.jpg

That said, it really doesn't matter what it looks like as long as you don't have any problems seating a primer.

[Greg S]

One thig to take note while using the RCBS unit is you should sort brass by headstamp. The thickness on the brass at the bottom of the case is sometimes thicker or thiner by manufacturer and if you have the die adjusted for thinner brass and put in a thicker one you can bend the back up rod that goes into the case. A friend borrowed mine who is a notorious range scrounge and bent mine. When returning it, told me the story and said don't worry, you'll be getting a package from RCBS with the new part in a day or two.

[Hick]

I put my .223 brass in my hand drill (mouth in the drill chuck) and give it a few turns with the Lee primer pocket reamer held in my hand. It takes out the crimp really well and even gives the entry a slight bevel. It's fast and easy with the drill (holding the reamer still and turning the case) and very uniform. You can do one case every few seconds with this method.

[Boolit_Head]

I've been using the RCBS swager but I find that if I use the forester crimp cutter in a drill to just ease the corner I get less issues seating primers.

[jmorris]

I put my .223 brass in my hand drill (mouth in the drill chuck) and give it a few turns with the Lee primer pocket reamer held in my hand.

you can also get 1/4" hex reamers like the bottom left of the first photo in #6 that can chuck up or fit in various powered devices.

[jsizemore]

In a pinch a case neck chamfer tool will ease the edge of the primer pocket for easier primer insertion. The handheld Lyman tool in post #6 works more better and the bit can be chucked in a drill to speed things up.

[cheese1566]

Make sure the rod is screwed in all the way up in the die. Adjust by turning the die body up or down. Make adjustments small as it doesn't take much to bend the rod.

adjust until the primer pocket edge is rounded to your preference to insert a new primer.
like others said, sort brass to head stamp

its not a set and forget, you have to keep an eye on it and keep it properly adjusted. That's why there is no setscrew on the large locknut

[jmorris]

In a pinch a case neck chamfer tool will ease the edge of the primer pocket for easier primer insertion.

More than once I have used my pocket knife to remove a crimp from a case. Just use a better tool if I set out to remove crimps.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have a Herters and an RCBS primer pocket swager but use the little Lee caser chamfer tool to remove crimp. I just like the result better.

[Lug1]

I primed a few cases that I ran threw the swager and there is indeed a noticeable decrease in the resistance when seating the primer. So I guess that answers my question.
Thank you very much, everyone.



Make sure the rod is screwed in all the way up in the die. Adjust by turning the die body up or down. Make adjustments small as it doesn't take much to bend the rod.



I think something may have changed between the original and the "2" model. This model's instructions and illustration show the rod inserted only part way up, not all the way.

The RCBS video on YouTube also notes to insert the rod all the way up then tighten the lug nut, but the provided-with-package document states otherwise.

[Bayou52]

I've been using a RCBS swaging die for several years. Works on most cases, but some still have significant resistance when inserting primers. I hit those with a couple of twists from the chamfer tool to complete the crimp removal. I'm going to put more pressure on the press ram next swaging session to see if that helps open them up a little more.

One more tip with this tool. The swaging die stud can really geat stuck hard in the primer pocket. To keep from having to slam the ram down too hard to dislodge it, I apply a little case lube to the stud. It pops out much, much easier. I do this before wet tumbling, so the tumbling removes any residual case lube from the primer pocket.

[Bayou52]

The RCBS video on YouTube also notes to insert the rod all the way up then tighten the lug nut, but the provided-with-package document states otherwise.

This is an important point. I have the same beef: my swager die is older and those instructions also say raise the rod up into the die and then lock it. That's the way not to use this die. By following these directions, my press was camming over, and hard, before the stud was completely into the primer pocket. The rod must be lowered until the stud completely enters the pocket.

I called RCBS to tell them about this insert error, and the rep agreed the directions were misleading. But these were old directions, and I haven't seen or read the directions that come with the newer swage die sets.

[Geezer in NH]

I've been using the RCBS swager but I find that if I use the forester crimp cutter in a drill to just ease the corner I get less issues seating primers.
I use a standard countersink in a drill after swaging makes seating better and no problems I have been doing this for 30 + years.

I think I got this from a guns and ammo editors book George Nonte. I lent the book to some "friend" 20 years ago and have not seen it since.

[BucketBack]

Oh, I see. So the ring stays.

Yes, when following the instructions and using the "quarter turn at a time" method, there comes a point where in order to remove the casing from the swagger head - there's quite a bit of resistance, and then the casing pops off the head as if it was spring loaded.

That's very helpful, thank you.

I already know how it feels to seat a new primer in those casings (don't ask me how). I'll go ahead and try to seat primers onto the swaged cases, to see If I fell a difference.

I have the press mounted version. I know I shouldn't , but I will lightly lube every 5th primer pocket with a q tip.The swaged cases come off without much resistance.
Then I tumble before sizing and trimming , then tumble again, so the lube is long gone. I hope anyway.
No issues contaminating the powder/primer in over 10K 556 cases, 500 30 carbine,1000 9mm's
I'm using 10% castor oil and 90% Methanol ( alcohol) mix

[gwpercle]

If you are still having trouble seating primers after swaging the pocket , brass will spring back sometimes, use a hand held primer pocket reaming tool to finish up with. A few turns will uniform up the pockets. I also follow that with a primer pocket uniformer tool to correct the depth of the pocket , just because it came in the little set from Lyman.
Gary

[Leaker11]

I know we're talking about RCBS but what about the Dillon tool from post #6? How does that tool perform for you? Just asking cause I haven't had luck with rcbs myself. From hearing you all maybe I just had it set wrong

[Mk42gunner]

The Dillon works much, much easier than the RCBS. Faster too. I sold my RCBS set after getting the Dillon.

Robert

[EDG]

You might want to buy an eye loupe or a magnifying glass. With a little help you will easily be able to see the edge radius ironed on to the primer pocket.
Once you have something that helps you see a little better try oscillating the pressure 3 or 4 times at peak pressure and the brass will flow better.
Do not get carried away with that tool on any given day or you can injure your elbow. I ran through a 5 gallon bucket full of 5.56 one day and got a nasty case of tendinitis (tennis elbow) that took nearly a year to clear up.


Good evening everyone. I've been reading on this forum-site many times when searching on Google. I guess now it's time to ask a question.

I've run a search on this one and called RCBS, too. But I can't get to the bottom of this, mostly due to contradicting information.

I have .223 brass lying around that I'm sure has a crimped pocket. I'm not at all an expert on crimped primer pockets but the give away is the extra ring visible.
The tiny black line is pointing at that ring.

1. Can anyone confirm this is actually (still) a crimped pocket. ("Still" because it was run through the swager die.)

https://s3.postimg.org/50puszd0j/swage.jpg

2. I called RCBS, they told me the ring is not supposed to come out when using their swager, but running the case through that process will "take care of the crimp", and that's what left me confused.

Any information from folks more experienced with this is greatly appreciated,
Thank you.

[buckshotshoey]

In a pinch a case neck chamfer tool will ease the edge of the primer pocket for easier primer insertion. The handheld Lyman tool in post #6 works more better and the bit can be chucked in a drill to speed things up.

Works for me. No need to buy more stuff. A light turn or two is all it takes and bevels the pocket edge a slight bit.

[No Blue]

I use a standard countersink in a drill after swaging makes seating better and no problems I have been doing this for 30 + years.

I think I got this from a guns and ammo editors book George Nonte. I lent the book to some "friend" 20 years ago and have not seen it since.

Try it without the swaging bit; it works just as well. And cheaper. And faster. And you can spend the money you save on something you can't make like primers or brass. It's the secret of making your money go a loooong ways.

[RogerDat]

I use a standard countersink in a drill after swaging makes seating better and no problems I have been doing this for 30 + years.

I think I got this from a guns and ammo editors book George Nonte. I lent the book to some "friend" 20 years ago and have not seen it since.

Not nearly as many years but same approach counter sink from harbor freight, comes with a handle but I'll also use it with cordless drill on slow. That and an NOE pocket swager die seem to cover the situation. I generally do a moderate swage on the press with the die then counter sink.

Someplace there is a video of using the RCBS with a rubber band wrapped under the rod to flip the brass off against a backstop padded with a towel so it doesn't bounce and drops into a bin. Neatest thing since pull top beer cans. One pushes the rod loaded with brass down against the rubber band so after you press the pocket you just let go of the arm and wheeee! The brass sails into the waiting bin and the arm is up ready for the next case.

[four70nitro]

https://ballistictools.com/store/exclusive/three-gage-pack - a second vote for the Ballistic Tools swage gages. High quality, well made, easy to use, fast.