casting for pratice with my hunting rifle

[formernuke]

I just got a modern muzzleloader for hunting. I got some hunting bullets as well. What I'm wondering is will I be able to case lead practice bullets which will fly about like the hunting ones to practice with since the hunting ones are so expensive?

Thanks in advance.

[mooman76]

Probably not. If they are close to the same, you may get close enough for practice but you still need to shoot some of what you want to hunt with so you know where you will be at. What bullets are you talking about, cast and what you bought?

[formernuke]

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/bullets/barnes-expander-mz-fb-bullets.html

hollow points

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/130069/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-50-250-real-50-caliber-517-diameter-250-grain-real

I was thinking this mold for casting but havn't bought it yet.

[Edward]

If you are able to cast,use the store bought up and use what you made to hunt it"s more fun and works better :cbpour:

[triggerhappy243]

koger is going to love me for this one. hunt with what you practice with and practice with what you will hunt with.

[mooman76]

You might want to check out the sticky above on paper patching bullets. It would probably work better in that tight twist modern shooter.

[bubba.50]

why cast just to practice with? practice & hunt with the same bullets.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/bullets/barnes-expander-mz-fb-bullets.html

hollow points

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/130069/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-50-250-real-50-caliber-517-diameter-250-grain-real

I was thinking this mold for casting but havn't bought it yet.
formernuke, welcome to the website.

Do you "have to" use copper, or do you just "want to"?
Copper and plastic are obviously less dense than Lead, So if you have the same weight bullets, but one is copper and the other is lead, then the Copper one will be longer. So, Depending on the barrel's twist rate, one may stabilize and the other may not.

The easy answer is to cast your own, as others have suggested...and forget about using Copper bullets, unless you live in the land of the condor?

[725]

I hate to pile on here, but I will also note that cast boolits do a great job of putting meat in the freezer. Not knowing what your modern ML has for a rate of twist in the barrel, I kind of assume that it's a fast twist and was designed to launch sabot projectiles (or the like). If so, you can buy mass lots of sabots from (? mind blank, here ?) and put your cast in their sabots. Voila ! you can practice and hunt with your cast. Bulk sabots end up being far cheaper than grabbing a box of prepackaged bullets off the Wal-Mart shelf and you can regulate your choice of alloy. Pure lead / wheel weights / or some other hard alloy will all fly out of your front stuffer just fine.

Somebody kick in here and help me out with the sabot company's name. :)

[triggerhappy243]

725, excellent point. T/c used to sell bulk sabots, look around at midsouth shooters supply. I just looked and they have a wide selection.

[formernuke]

I thought hunting with pure lead ones would be like using FMJ's ie small exit hole and small amount of damage to the organs if this is not the case then I would be more than happy to use lead ones. Any mold suggestions for a good hunting bullet?

triggerhappy243, I grew up in las cruces and have lots of family in rio rancho.

[rfd]

for hunting what? deer, hogs, elk, bear, moose, whatever? what caliber ml?

for some game, a patched ball is all that's required, for others a heavier minie or maxi *might* be better.

lots depends on the ball's weight and diameter, and the amount of powder used to reach a good projectile speed with accuracy.

it makes logical sense to practice with the same gear and components used for hunting.

anything less is a waste of time and a recipe for failure. ymmv.

[gtgeorge]

I will add that I am in the woods at the moment with a full bore cast bullet. I started with all the fancy " hunting" bullets but got tired of what they cost.

Tried the "real" by Lee and had no success so I was shooting 255 gr hp lead in a sabot and shot deer, hogs and turkey with good results but ended up with a Great Plains copy by NOE and found good accuracy with powder coat and sized to .510. so far just hogs with excellent results.

This is in a CVA Wolf.

[nagantguy]

it took some tinkering a few years ago but the lee REAL pcd and and kurled lightly with a set of rasps shoot as good or better than anything I've tried in my front stuffers, I cast them very soft and they are a bezel to load, hit hard, hold tight groups, 12 to 1t shots between swabbing the bore and deer don't seem to know they are not expensive store bought sabots!
member Johnson1942 was and is a great guy who's forgotten more on this subject than I'll ever know!

[725]

formernuke: To use either pistol or rifle boolits in a sabot, you have to get the sabot that conforms to the boolit chosen. They (the sabot)come in different pairings. Some are made for a common .44 mag bullet and some for the .45 Colt bullet (although I never really saw much difference). Some you can shoot a .44 bullet in a .54 caliber ML. Don't know if they are still available, but you used to be able to get sabots to shoot a .22 bullet out of a .30 cal rifle. I bet a good search would reveal somebody making just exactly what you want. I'd think a sabot suitable for a 240 Keith or anything from the 215 grain to ? 300 grain ? boolit would be a game getter, for sure.

Also, a soft boolit at ML velocities carries more than enough energy to the game to provide a quick, clean, ethical kill. The only other thing I can think of that you will need is BBQ sauce.

[OnHoPr]

There are a lot of variables to consider. You say you just acquired a modern mzldr. Does this mean an inline with a faster twist like 1:28 or so? Is it have a scope on top of it? Are you going to be sitting in the woods or possibly farm fields or wider hardwood ridges where shots can be 200 yds? If you are keeping it within the 100 yd range the PRB is deadly, but you might have problems with the fast twist being a noob. The full bore conicals types can shoot very good, put a good thumpum on a deer, don't use as much powder, and are easier on the shoulder. If your ranges are possibly going to be pass 125 yds go to the sabot. All the sabots will work with what you might put in them for 5 or 6" @ 100 yd. Your own rifle, experience, powder, and components will tell you when you get to 1 MOA. I like the Harvesters sabots. I will have to sound like a scratched record and agree with the posters above with shooting a projectile boolit that came from the silver stream. I have used Speer GDs, Knights, Noslers, TCs, etc. and the cast boolit in this scenario has put the deer down quicker even with marginal non perfect hits. Now, if you are considering pass 200 to 300 or more then the TC 200 gr Shock Wave and 150 gr of powder will get you there. I can't think of the link at the time, but they have made cast boattails for the sabot and 50 cal for the longer range shooting. If you cast for the sabot and go over the 90 or 100 gr powder mark then start casting them at least 25 - 33/75 - 66 respectively WW/Pb. Loose powder will give you better accuracy instead of 2 pellets or the 3 pellets choice. The 44 or 45 sabot will work with cast, but make sure you get a flat base or non GC mold or you will have to put a GC on it or mill off that bottom part of the boolit. In the pic below I use the Lee 240 RN most of the time. It is a PRB on steroids. The one on the left is the Lee 310 gr.

174802

PS Shooting the round ball is fun for plinking and shooting. When you start trying to squeeze down your groups with the sabot or the conical you should be swabbing after every shot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I thought hunting with pure lead ones would be like using FMJ's ie small exit hole and small amount of damage to the organs if this is not the case then I would be more than happy to use lead ones. Any mold suggestions for a good hunting bullet?

triggerhappy243, I grew up in las cruces and have lots of family in rio rancho.
The home cast boolit can be quite destructive...sometimes too destructive.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?172689-I-believe-the-cast-lead-rifle-boolit-is-the-most-effective-projectile-in-the-world

[izzyjoe]

Try 75 gr of 2f, and the Lee real 250. That combo worked in my friends wolf years ago, and more that enough for deer to 100yds. To many folk get caught up in this magnum craze, less is more in the world of muzzleloaders.

[Tatume]

People who are telling you to use cast bullets for practice and hunting are giving you good advice. Good cast bullets are very effective on game, accurate, and inexpensive. My recommendation is orange MMP sabots and bullets intended for the 45-70. Hard or soft doesn't matter much; either way they will kill like lightening.

[johnson1942]

kroger hunted up here in nebraska last dec with me. on the second day he got his mule deer buck at 140 yards with one shot right where he aimed. hope he comes up here this year again as it was fun.

[gtgeorge]

And here is the thread with the details for the first successful hunt with the CVA with the Great Plains bullet.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?306665-Weekend-Hog-with-NOE-510-380-HB-(Great-Plains)

[OnHoPr]

It is not so much about the MAGNUM craze its about where you might hunt. A lot of states requires restricted rifle, shotgun, or mzldr. Just take for example the southern lower of MI (zone 3) which has these restrictions. There is very little PL in the with the most hunters. The state has a few programs probably like a lot of other states in the mid west and east. One is called HAP or hunter access program where hunters can hunt on leased farmlands or properties. There are only so many hunters that can hunt on these at a given time. These properties can consist of many types of terrain from a 40 acre grass field or swamp to a 500 acre farm. So, if all you have to hunt is a 100 acre field whether it is cut or hasn't been worked in 25 years like the golden rod field below the long range magnum stuff comes into play. Where as the PRB or conical is fine for the swamp or woods like below, but is quite lacking in the field.

[725]

Thanks, Tatume. MMP is what I couldn't remember. Good sabots.

[formernuke]

The rifle is a CVA optima v2 1:28 twist 50 cal with a scope. For hunting it will be short range but just to challenge myself I do want to take it out to 300 yards. Targets are hogs and deer right now but in the future I would like to try for bear, elk and moose as well.

I'm pretty sure this takes me into sabots which is fine.

Do they need to be hollow points for hunting? What is a good mold to fit this purpose?

Thanks for the inputs so far.

[Tatume]

You neither need nor want hollow point bullets for your ML rifle. Any cast bullet intended for the 45-70 cartridge will be good. Bullets can be hard or soft, as either will work just fine. Weight should be in the range of 300 - 350 grains. MMP orange sabots are ideal.

[Squeeze]

I shoot this in wheel weight with sabot in several different modern muzzleloaders and get MOA. http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-300S-D.png I tried pure lead, but it was just too destructive. I like the 300 grn, but there are several similar options in different weights

[Tatume]

Hi Squeeze,

Excellent choice. I use a very similar bullet designed by Veral Smith of LBT. One of my motivations was the destruction caused by commercial jacketed bullets. I needed an accurate bullet that wouldn't cause people to complain that I hunted with hand grenades.

Take care, Tom

[Squeeze]

174943Thats what I got with soft lead. Exit hole looked like you threw a softball through. I have been using Clip on wheel weight for 12 ga slug for years. Dunno why I even tried the pure first for this mold. Pretty much ruined the exit shoulder on a doe few years back. I have learned to pick shots better (IF i can control myself at the right time) and shoot behind the shoulder.