Which Commander size, Colt or S&W PD?

[.45Cole]

I'm in the market for a 4"ish length full size frame. I'm narrowed down to a lightweight Commander or a 4" 1911PD (scandium), 45acp. They're about the same as far as setup but what do you guys think? The Commander is a Colt and S&W is really well made. I was also considering a Kimber CDP, but I'd like to know what you guys think on these two.

[DougGuy]

I think the Colt LW Commander has a little better recoil system than some of the compacts, it can live happily with one recoil spring and no guide rod where you start getting shorter things get more complicated, slide velocities are higher, recoil is a bit sharper, and the recoil spring REALLY takes beating.

The Commander would get my vote for reliability and long life span as long as it hasn't had 200k rounds already put through it, you should be fine.

If I was in the market for a new 1911 format edc, I would choose the Ruger lightweight commander in .45 ACP and may just replace my Kahr CW45 with it sometime this year.

The 4" may be good too, I had several Colt Officer's 1911 models and they were more or less stiff to rack the slide, recoil spring plugs failed often, the springs didn't last long, they ran but a Commander length 1911, the parts themselves sufferd a LOT less than the compact guns did.

Can you post a link to the 4" PD you are thinking about?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I'm with DougGuy take a look at the Ruger's I don't have there lightweight but i do have the nightwatchman CMD and like it a lot

[Preacher Jim]

Cole I carried and used a commander for many years. It never failed me in a bad situation.45 acp is the best solution to a bad situation I have ever used.
Smith 39 failed me.

[tygar]

Of the 2, I vote Colt, of the 3, I think the Kimber is the best all around for the dollar today.

I don't know if you have seen the pics of my 45s, 25 or more but 15 are Colts, but older Colts. I havn't bought a new one in 15 or more years.

Best bang for the bucks is Kimber. FWIW

[MGD]

Get the Colt. You will have no regrets. My Commander is always near.

[Petrol & Powder]

Back in my 1911 days I had a few Lightweight Commander types.
The best one was an old (early production) Colt LW commander. I had a chance to trade it and some cash for a new stainless LW Commander from the Colt Custom Shop and thought that would be an improvement. I regretted that move from day one. The Custom Shop model was a terrible pistol. in fact it was one of the worst Colts I ever owned. I eventually traded that paperweight for a new Commander length Kimber and that was a pretty good pistol.
Based on that, and some other 1911's I owned, I would say that the Colt name is no guarantee of quality. I had several Colts and some were good and some were not.


The Kimber was a very good pistol for the money and mine would shoot as well and an acquaintances Les Baer (much to his chagrin).

The Ruger 1911 style pistols look very good and if I was in the market I would strongly consider one of those. For the money, the Ruger appears to be a good deal.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

All my 1911's are Colt's. I hope you can shoot the lightweight Commander before you buy. I hated the way mine felt when I shot it. I have a lightweight Colt's 1911 5" that I just love, but I sold my lightweight Colt's Commander. It felt foreign in my hand when I shot it. My lightweight 5" feels just as good as my steel 5" guns when I shoot them. I've never owned a steel Commander.

[Lloyd Smale]

I had 3 cdps and still have one and its a gun that will argue the experts who claim a officers sized gun cant be reliable and accurate. It outshoots a lot of the 5 inch guns ive had. My buddy who owns more 1911s then anyone I know has a smith commander and its his favorite carry gun. Ive had a few lightweight colt commanders through the years and found for the most part they were very loose guns that were reliable but not very accurate. In my opinion over priced for what you get and that comes from a guy that loves his gold cups. If I had a grand to spend on another commander my choise would hands down be another cdp. ALOT more gun for the money.

[Bigslug]

Smith site somewhat hard to navigate for some reason, but I prefer the 4.25" approach of a true Commander to the 4" guns simply because the Commander disassembles just like a full size 1911. A lot of the smaller ones have goofy bushing arrangements and a disassembly process involving bent paperclips or spring-holding widgets - screw that!

I'm also a bit of a purist when it comes to what a 1911 is. A Colt Series 80 makes a few departures, but they're at least pretty well established departures. When you get into external, pinned, coil-spring powered extractors. . .there's nothing inherently wrong with the concept, but you're off the 1911 reservation AFAIC.

[pietro]

.

I vote for the 3 ponies brand..........................

The S&W may be prettier & more appealing, but it won't pry me away from my Colt .45 Lightweight Commander, which has stood the test of time with me (45 years w/o issue one).


.

[.45Cole]

S&W 1911PD (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764908_-1_757754_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) I really want a Colt because it's a Colt. I have a Detective Special that's really well made but I do hear quite a bit about Colt 1911's being entirely different than their wheelguns. I do have a problem with the aluminum frame of the Colt, but also the 4" length of the S&W. I know Colt took some time in coming up with the Commander and making it work well, hence the 4.25" barrel, but I don't think S&W would slack inn the design area.

They cost about the same, I can have a used one for ~900.

[DougGuy]

Actually the S&W is a 4.25" barrel just like the Commander, says so right on the end of the box of the one I looked at on Gunbroker which btw is NEW, for $899.

I would probably pick the S&W over the Colt for fit and finish, plus scandium is quite a bit stronger than aluminum.

Colt Commanders can be hit or miss whether you got one that works good or just barely. And with a lot of other 1911s there is also the mediocre factor which causes parts to end up in the parts bin and money to fly out of one's paypal account to makers of quality parts like Wilson, Ed Brown, etc, for upgrades. I would think the S&W would be a lot less prone to need upgraded parts than most run of the mill Colts.

[Char-Gar]

OK...I hang with some pretty gunny types and the new Ruger LW Commander gets the nod for the best of the litter. It has everything you want and nothing you don't want. One of the problems with the Colt and other alloy frame 1911 was hollow point ammo scoring the feed ramp after a few thousand rounds giving feeding problems. Ruger solved this with a titanium feed ramp.

On that advise of many friends I bought one of the new Ruger LW Commanders. This pistol has taken any kind of ammo I could put in it without a bobble. It shoots to the sights and is quite accurate. It is my main carry weapon these days.

Here is a pic of the pistol and the ammo I fired the first time out. I just grabbed a variety of factory and reloads from my stash and went to the range. None of this ammo was loaded for this pistol. Feeding was 100% for all 300 or so rounds. This pistol is a goodun!

Glen Fryxell just bought a new full sized Ruger 1911 to celebrate a new job and he is highly enthusiastic with his as I am with my LW Commander. Ruger has made all of these pistol right. They may not be costly and elegant, but they are accurate and stone cold reliable.

Over the years, I have owned three Colt LW Commanders and never got the reliability I wanted. With a Colt you get a logo and a name, but that does not necessarily translate into shooting quality.

[B. Lumpkin]

Odd, of the 6 Colt lightweight commanders I own, I've never had a malfunction in any of them Feed rams look fine, and no broken parts.

I believe a Colt Lightweight Commander will serve you well, as will the S&W. Also, Colt's small parts are of high quality, even the MIM parts.

[historicfirearms]

I bought a brand new Colt commander all stainless a couple years ago. I put over 500 rounds through it trying to get it to be reliable. It would usually jam at least one round per magazine and a couple empties would hit me In the forehead. I sent it back to Colt for a tune up and it came back unchanged. I will not waste my money on another new Colt. Now, the older ones were nice pistols but it's hard to find a lightweight commander that isn't shot loose. If I were in the market for another lightweight I would get the Ruger.

[Lloyd Smale]

The last colt I had was a *** too. It was a 5 inch 9mm and its shot about a 4 inch average group at 25 yards and I don't think it made it through a full mag 10percent of the time. I sold it and bought a sti Trojan in 9mm and it shoots inch groups and NEVER misses a beat. Sorry pony fans but colts quality control is all over the place. Yes you can get a good one and yes you can get **** too. I personally think in quality control they lag behind Kimber, springfield, and even ruger and smith. To many people its a status symbol to have a colt. Be it a ar or a 1911. I have owned them and still own a couple colts but personally think for what I got I paid to much for them. Ive seen just to many of them that were so loosely fit that theyd pass for a baby rattle. Id say the same about springfield if this was 15 years ago but they've got there act back together and make a good gun now. Colt rides way to much on the back of that pony on the grips.
I bought a brand new Colt commander all stainless a couple years ago. I put over 500 rounds through it trying to get it to be reliable. It would usually jam at least one round per magazine and a couple empties would hit me In the forehead. I sent it back to Colt for a tune up and it came back unchanged. I will not waste my money on another new Colt. Now, the older ones were nice pistols but it's hard to find a lightweight commander that isn't shot loose. If I were in the market for another lightweight I would get the Ruger.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not in the market for a 1911 at this time but I've examined a lot of the current crop of 1911 style pistols and must say I agree with Char-Gar - The Ruger is very impressive.

If I was going to purchase a new Lightweight Commander 1911 pistol, the Ruger would be very high on my short list.

Ruger has done their homework and produced a very good pistol for the money. Details such as the integral plunger tube, titanium feed ramp and firing pin, excellent Novak sights and lots of stainless parts in the right places; make the Ruger a solid pistol.

[Char-Gar]

To prove that I am not anti-Colt here is my Government Model that I bought new in 2005. I fitted an arched mainspring housing and a longer target trigger, other than that it is box stock. Ivory grips complete the package. It is a good reliable and accurate pistol. I have quite a few old Colt revolvers and think highly of them, but their auto-pistols are hit and miss. If you have a good one, then you have a fine pistol.

Colt has had union problems, management problems and quality problems for decades now. There have been periods when they have their stuff together and others periods when they were in dire straits. The only thing keeping their nose above water these days, is the logo and government contracts. Colt still has some brand loyalty and sometimes that is not warranted by their product.

[.45Cole]

I'm thinking S&W now and will have to look closer at the Ruger Commander now that so many people like them.

[376Steyr]

If you get the S&W, make sure it doesn't have a firing pin safety. The ones they made a few years ago used a grip safety-activated design (versus the trigger-activated style of the Colt) and I found out you could depress the grip safety just enough to let the hammer drop, but the gun not fire. S&W evidently figured this out too, as they seemed to have quietly phased them out without the decency to do a recall. Cue R. Lee Emery's rant in "Full Metal Jacket" to express how I feel about that. I converted mine to the Ruger-style titanium firing pin system.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I own several 1911's Colt's brand. Never had a malfunction issue. I carried the 1911 on duty as peace officer for years, never had a problem with the Colt's. I could have chosen any brand, I chose the Colt's. I have been shooting competition for years and never had a problem with Colt's 1911's. I cast wheel weight lead and load in previously fired brass. Never had a problem. My agency of 50 plus commissioned officers purchased AR's and bought the Colt's brand. We never had a problem with any of them. A neighbouring agency that serves a population of 500,000 bought 1911's as a duty gun. Nothing but problems and they had to get rid of them. Those were not Colt's. We had an active shooter that went in for 8 minutes. Every weapon deployed was a Colt's and it was a Colt's 1911 that brought the situation to a halt with a hit from 80 yards away.

the earlier post with a pic of a 1911 isn't real definitive, but the Colt's economy model, the 1991 costs less than the Ruger Commander. There are cheap 1911's and more expensive 1911's, there are 1911's which are factory manufactured 1911's and 1911's that are hand fitted. A blanket statement that Colt's are junk, and you might get one that works if your lucky are statements which are in conflict with my observations in over 30 years of law enforcement experience which included firearms instructor, patrol, SWAT, investigations plus competition in law enforcement and non law enforcement competition.

[osteodoc08]

I have had and have colt, Kimber, sig, smith (E series), and RIA 1911's. The colts are a
mix of ages. My newer Colt is one of my favorites. It is a LW
Commander. It has fed and cycled anything I can throw at it. All of them are reliable. The Sig is the STX model. It's a looker and has adjustable night sights which I really like.

[B. Lumpkin]

I own several 1911's Colt's brand. Never had a malfunction issue. I carried the 1911 on duty as peace officer for years, never had a problem with the Colt's. I could have chosen any brand, I chose the Colt's. I have been shooting competition for years and never had a problem with Colt's 1911's. I cast wheel weight lead and load in previously fired brass. Never had a problem. My agency of 50 plus commissioned officers purchased AR's and bought the Colt's brand. We never had a problem with any of them. A neighbouring agency that serves a population of 500,000 bought 1911's as a duty gun. Nothing but problems and they had to get rid of them. Those were not Colt's. We had an active shooter that went in for 8 minutes. Every weapon deployed was a Colt's and it was a Colt's 1911 that brought the situation to a halt with a hit from 80 yards away.

the earlier post with a pic of a 1911 isn't real definitive, but the Colt's economy model, the 1991 costs less than the Ruger Commander. There are cheap 1911's and more expensive 1911's, there are 1911's which are factory manufactured 1911's and 1911's that are hand fitted. A blanket statement that Colt's are junk, and you might get one that works if your lucky are statements which are in conflict with my observations in over 30 years of law enforcement experience which included firearms instructor, patrol, SWAT, investigations plus competition in law enforcement and non law enforcement competition.

I've owned many Colt's over the years both handgun and rifle. My experiences mirror yours. Where Colt dropped the ball for awhile with 1911s was in the fit and finish category. Reliability has never been an issue for me. Today, with a 1991 for under $700, I don't need to look anywhere else. I've owned many other maker's clones over the years, but Colt and Les Baer are the only ones that stay with me. Now that Colt actually shows an interest in the civilian market, there are many new models out with good features and attractive prices.

[Premod70]

No better time to buy a Colt than now. Smith makes pretty good revolvers and such but nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt, it's a no brainer.

[OS OK]

175057 Colt...eats whatever you give it...feels natural in the hand...shoots better than you do...Colt.

[B. Lumpkin]

OS- I like those grips. What material are they?

[OS OK]

OS- I like those grips. What material are they?

Rams Horn...better yet, they are from a member of our site...Jake70, a fine grip maker of many different materials. He's a pleasure to do business with. Shoot him a PM for a quote.

[B. Lumpkin]

They sure do look mighty fine. Ivory is my preferred grip material, but with the new regulations I don't see me buying any more once I find guns to put my remaining sets on. That rams horn is nice, and I much prefer natural materials for grips. Does the rams horn provide a good grip surface like the smooth ivory does or is it slick?

[OS OK]

They are smooth all around the edges but the center where the colored area is textured. Jake is into finding really nice blanks to give the detail.
Now, they feel fine, not slick but...with sweaty paws that would change, so far I like them. They are a good color scheme with the brushed Stainless.
They are a lot less smooth than my Ivory on the Colt SAA.

[B. Lumpkin]

Thanks for the info. I have highly polished ivory on a few Colt's, and they provide solid grip even with sweaty hands.

Sorry for the off topic drift.

[Petrol & Powder]

No better time to buy a Colt than now. Smith makes pretty good revolvers and such but nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt, it's a no brainer.
Can't say I agree with that.
While the current crop of Colt's may be fine, they haven't always been good just because they had the word "Colt" stamped on them. In fact some of them have been decidedly bad.
I don't agree with the notion, "nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt....".
There's no mystery to the 1911 and other companies can make copies. Sometimes they make improved copies.

[Char-Gar]

Can't say I agree with that.
While the current crop of Colt's may be fine, they haven't always been good just because they had the word "Colt" stamped on them. In fact some of them have been decidedly bad.
I don't agree with the notion, "nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt....".
There's no mystery to the 1911 and other companies can make copies. Sometimes they make improved copies.

Agreed, "nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt..." is blind faith in a brand/logo. The brilliance is in Browning's design not the logo. There are many people that make or have made 1911, both on shore and off shore. Some of them have more bells and whistles than others and within the brand, whatever it is, quality has undulated over the years. Even Kimber has had it's ups and downs.

There are plenty of pistols fully equal to the best Colt in every regards. There are also plenty of pistols fully equal to the worse Colt in every regard.

My favorite full size, full weight 1911 these days in a Norinco 1911A1 and yes I have a good Colt and a good Ruger as well. The Norinco is a basic pistol that cost me $280.00 in a Corpus Christi, Tx pawn shop. It does what we buy these pistols to do, i.e. deliver rounds on target, where you want them to be, in a reliable fashion.

So everybody is entitled to their own favorite band, but nobody makes a 1911 as good as Colt, is pretty much nonsense.

[Markbo]

I recently picked up the new Ruger lightweight commander size in 9mm. Just always wanted a 1911 in 9mm and this one suit me. Let me be clear - there is no better 1911 for the money than the Ruger. My long time carry has been a Kimber Pro CDP. It has a couple of things the Ruger doesn't that I really appreciate like ambi safeties and front strap checkering. With a lighter/alloy gun that front strap checkering helps a lot. I love it.

Frankly I havent missed it on the Ruger, but if need be I will add skate board tape. I have done that on several other smaller/lightweight handguns and it works great. My Kimber has been 100% reliable and is extremely accurate. Not for a smaller/lignter gun but period. So far the Ruger is not 100% reliable, failing to go into battery every time (a simple thumb push sets it) but I think a stiffer recoil spring will fix that. It has been addressed in several reviews I trust. Accuracy has been first rate.

The Kimber is still my favorite carry gun, but the Ruger may take its place IF reliability gets 100% with a new spring and a little more break in.

Note: I have only limited experience with S&W but I noticed one important thing shooting a friends: Holding his gun like every other 1911 I have ever shot, his did not point where aimed. A normal point/aim the POA was consistently low. I have no explanation for this. It was a normal flat mainspring housing and not bobbed so frankly I dont understand. But it was consistent enough to disinterest me in S&W 1911s

[Lloyd Smale]

yup brand loyalty makes me laugh. You even find some that think a ruger gun is a premium brand. There for the most part inexpensive entry level guns. I don't think ive ever owned a ruger hand or rifle that I didn't at least have to do trigger work to. But if it makes some of you feel superior because you were intelligent enough to spend 50 percent more to get a little picture of a horse on your gun then who am I to argue! Do yourself a big favor next time your purchasing a 1911. Sit a Kimber cdp, a springfield trp and a sti trojan next to the colt you can buy for the same money (entry level). Youll find better fit and finish, a lot more options that come without a trip to the gun smith and if my years of buying MANY 1911s counts your going to also end up with a better shooting gun that is just as reliable if not more. No horsey though. Whats a guy to do!!!
Agreed, "nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt..." is blind faith in a brand/logo. The brilliance is in Browning's design not the logo. There are many people that make or have made 1911, both on shore and off shore. Some of them have more bells and whistles than others and within the brand, whatever it is, quality has undulated over the years. Even Kimber has had it's ups and downs.

There are plenty of pistols fully equal to the best Colt in every regards. There are also plenty of pistols fully equal to the worse Colt in every regard.

My favorite full size, full weight 1911 these days in a Norinco 1911A1 and yes I have a good Colt and a good Ruger as well. The Norinco is a basic pistol that cost me $280.00 in a Corpus Christi, Tx pawn shop. It does what we buy these pistols to do, i.e. deliver rounds on target, where you want them to be, in a reliable fashion.

So everybody is entitled to their own favorite band, but nobody makes a 1911 as good as Colt, is pretty much nonsense.

[B. Lumpkin]

Your pricing 3 years behind, Lloyd. A Colt 1991 is sub $700. A Colt series 70 reintroduction is Sub $900.

The CDP, TRP, and Trojan compete at a higher price point. In the price range those compete at, Colt Offers the Wiley Clapp Government, commanders, and CCO all with Novak sights, Pete Single 25 LPI checkering, Match barrel (for less than the cost of the CDP, STI, and TRP). You can also get a Colt CCU in that price range, and are nipping at the heels of a M45A1. Let's keep the perspective fair here.

In the $700-$900 range, your options from the 3 you mentioned above are also more utilitarian and less optioned.

If you are going to throw out numbers and options, please keep them in line so as not to present inaccuracies.

[Premod70]

Can't say I agree with that.
While the current crop of Colt's may be fine, they haven't always been good just because they had the word "Colt" stamped on them. In fact some of them have been decidedly bad.
I don't agree with the notion, "nobody makes a better 1911 than Colt....".
There's no mystery to the 1911 and other companies can make copies. Sometimes they make improved copies.

Sorry but my post said now, not since the beginning. Today's Colt will match any 1911 for the money and the threat of the 1911 being the same as the Python's demise puts money in your pocket if the event ever happens.