moly coating bullets

[copdills]

what does everyone think about moly coating bullets, does it work well on all cast bullets , if so whats he best type to get and how do you put it on the bullet

Thanks

[rockrat]

I use some stuff called Bullet Master Lube. I am sure it is no longer available. It is moly in a solvent carrier. Put about 200 boolits in an empty coffee can and add about 3 tsp and tumble to coat. Drop on a screen to dry (outside only--- part of the carrier is not too good for you)

edit---I still lube and size with regular lube, figure it gives it a little more protection

[felix]

Moly works best when pressure is extreme, and frictional movement is on the slow side. Motor Mica works best with much lower pressure. Our cast boolit application is much closer to the latter, but still on the slower side of things. However, neither are really needed, either for condoms or for boolits because the frictional movement is extremely fast for both. ... felix

[h1tdk00]

Hi, I'm new here and don't have alot to add, but I have tried moly coating my 9mm bullets. I cast the bullets and then sized them dry, then I tumbled them in a tumbler with powdered Lyman moly and loaded them. They leaded the barrel something terrible and I lost any accuracy after about 20 rounds.

For my second try I took the moly coated bullets and tumbled them in Rooster jacket liquid lube. This worked much better but I still got some leading.

If I skip the moly and use the Lee Liquid Alox, then use the Rooster jacket on top of that, I get almost no leading and the bullets aren't as messy as using staight LLA.

So my conclusion is, at least for me, the moly doesn't help much on my 9mm cast bullets loads.

[Boomer Mikey]

I shoot allot of moly coated cast bullets... some of them don't have lube grooves.

I use Speer swaged bulk bullets for CAS matches as fine accuracy isn't necessary. They're very soft at BHN 8 reducing splash back from steel targets and obturate easily at CAS load velocity levels (750 - 1100 fps.) The coating on these appears to be dry moly mixed with a thin lube leaving a coating on the bullet and me after handling them. These are my favorite boolits for 357 Magnum CAS loads ahead of 4 grains of TiteGroup.

I really like Bear Creek Bullets for casual shooting; I'll weigh and select the best boolits in a box for use in low pressure applications for silhouette and use the rest for CAS matches. At BHN 11 these bullets work surprisingly well; even beyond 1500 fps. There's a proprietary dry coating on the bullets that contains moly and what appears to be a Teflon wax or Teflon and wax. You can take a torch to a bullet and the lead will melt leaving an empty shell of the bullet, the moly&wax coating. If the bore's condition is smooth these bullets won't lead with full power 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum loads in my rifles. These are my favorite general purpose boolits for 9MM, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP, 38-55, 375 Winchester and 45-70 loads. At $40.00 per 500 count box for use in my 9MM, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 45 ACP loads I can't afford to cast them. The 240 grain 0.430" 44 SWC boolit has been accurate in every gun I've tried it in.

http://www.pandorasfunbox.com/bearcreekbullets.htm

Kroll oil is one of your best friends if you shoot moly; run a wet patch or two of Kroll oil through the bores during the cleaning process to easily remove the moly from the bore. You'll need 5-10 fouling shots to get a clean bore working right again. I clean my CB moly guns once a year at best… the same as my other CB guns (stainless steel is another friend of mine.)



Boomer :Fire:

Prices on the thumbnails are old... before lead went to $1.75 a pound.

[jhalcott]

Being the LAZY sort, I tried moly for both cast and J words. I did NOT see enough benefit from it to continue it's use. Nor justify the additional expense. Plus the fact that you have to recondition the bore after each cleaning session. I tried it waxed and unwaxed on several calibers. The wax version leaves less on the shooter than the plain one.

[garandsrus]

I moly coat a lot of .223 bullets for an AR-15 but haven't done any cast.

With the bullets I coat, I also tumble them in sawdust for about 5 minutes to remove the excess moly and "buff" the bullets. They come out very nice looking and not much moly is transferred to my hand when loading.

I did purchase a bunch of "dry lube" boolits before I started casting. They have what looks like a lot of moly on them. They probably used 10 times the moly needed, with the remaining powder still in the box. They are a mess to handle and load! I am going to try the sawdust trick the next time I load them.

John

[Doc Highwall]

I moly my jacketed bullets because when I shoot a long range match that lasts 2-3 days, I do not want to have to clean my gun and then have to worry where my first shot is going when you only have two sighters and you are on the 1000yd mound and I have enough trying to read the wind. The mistake I see people make using moly is they get in what I call the American mode, Bigger is Better. They think if a little is good, more has got to be better. Now you end up with moly fouling and carnuba wax if you use it to. What I do to moly my bullets is I tumble 500 of them in ground corncob, then with rubber gloves I put them in about a 3lb plastic peanut butter jar that has been cleaned as good as I can get it with not even a 22lr case of moly. This is still to much moly, enough for 500 80gr sierra's or 155gr sierra's. When they are done tumbling while wearing the rubber gloves, I dump them on paper towels and rub the extra moly off and put them back in the 500 count boxes. This works good enough that I can fire up to 300+ rounds with out cleaning the bore, remember less is more. Now on to your question I think you could put moly in with Johnson"s past wax or LLA as the carrier, Just remember ( LESS IS MORE ) you can always add more but you cannot take it out. I am going to do this when I get a chance. I hope this helps.

[mike in co]

Being the LAZY sort, I tried moly for both cast and J words. I did NOT see enough benefit from it to continue it's use. Nor justify the additional expense. Plus the fact that you have to recondition the bore after each cleaning session. I tried it waxed and unwaxed on several calibers. The wax version leaves less on the shooter than the plain one.


this typical of doing half the work, with half the information and wondering why it did not work.

moly does exactly one thing..it allows one to shoot the same, longer PERIOD

it requires that one work up ne loads, it requires a new/different cleaning procedure( no brushes, patches only)

with correct cleaning one does not recondition the bore; wax provides aprox 25% OF THE TOTAL BENEFIT.

yes one can moly cast boolits but why ? properly sized, lubed and hardness, they shoot clean...

"Hi, I'm new here and don't have alot to add, but I have tried moly coating my 9mm bullets. I cast the bullets and then sized them dry, then I tumbled them in a tumbler with powdered Lyman moly and loaded them. They leaded the barrel something terrible and I lost any accuracy after about 20 rounds.

For my second try I took the moly coated bullets and tumbled them in Rooster jacket liquid lube. This worked much better but I still got some leading.

If I skip the moly and use the Lee Liquid Alox, then use the Rooster jacket on top of that, I get almost no leading and the bullets aren't as messy as using staight LLA."

before trying multiple lubes, and moly, why not correct the leading problem first ? since you get some leading with your basic process...fix it first...hardness, size and just one lube.....when you have a basic process that works , then you can evaluate changes...honestly your "data" means nothing as you did not start with a WORKING process.

moly works on condoms.....but one must use the entire process not just one part.

mike in co

[h1tdk00]

Mike, maybe you can help me out with my process. I get no leading with my bullets lubed in the traditional manner with a Lyman lubrisizer and Thompson blue angel lube. The same bullet at the same size moly coated leads something terrible. Do you have some suggestions for me to try.

Thanks,
Tim

[leftiye]

It may be that Doc Highwall is on to something. I can see where a little moly that ends up deposited on the bore should do the job. I can also see where too much could be a problem, as Harrison said 50 years ago. It also seems that some form of wax would be the "bee's knees" to help out in coating the bore. Does anyone have any experience in mixing moly into a lube, and not having it unevenly distributed, or settle out?

[Doc Highwall]

If you go to the corbin swaging site and look under chemicals, under Liquid Jacket he mentions about mixing moly with it to achieve high velocities. From what I have learned here about using Johnson's Paste Wax, I wonder how good it would work with JPW after it had been left to dry. Remember just enough to say you put some in not enough to make the bullets look black.

[mike in co]

Mike, maybe you can help me out with my process. I get no leading with my bullets lubed in the traditional manner with a Lyman lubrisizer and Thompson blue angel lube. The same bullet at the same size moly coated leads something terrible. Do you have some suggestions for me to try.

Thanks,
Tim

my first guess would be based on..."every thing is the same, just added moly" would be the velocity has dropped, so try bumping the powder up a littl at a time to get back to the original(non moly) velocity.

are the bullets lubed before or after moly coating ?
sized when all coating is done ?
case prepped so not scrapping moly off ??
you sure its lead, not moly plating the bbl( ok thats a strech)
mike

[Boomer Mikey]

The advocates of Moly coating are claiming five wonderful things: 1) Longer barrel life, 2) Improved accuracy, 3) First shot accuracy, no fouling shots, 4) Longer times between cleaning with no loss of accuracy and 5) Cleaning of the bore is by far faster and easier.

From the article: Lubricating Cast Bullets By: Glen E. Fryxell

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm

"E. H. Harrison explored the use of molybdenum disulfide (aka "moly") as a bullet lube back in the 1950s. He found that dry moly was inadequate as a bullet lubricant for .30-06 loads at 2000 fps, but that when it was incorporated into a more traditional grease/wax lube formulation, that it worked quite nicely indeed. By incorporating moly into a soft lube, the desirable flow properties of the lube are maintained, as is the ability to leave behind a moly coating on the barrel. This moly coating serves to protect the bore from oxidation, in addition to serving as a lubricant, preventing adhesion of leading deposits...

By incorporating moly into the mix, the lube delivered to the barrel surface can serve to prevent adhesion of future leading deposits by the passivated steel surface."

Shooting moly coated cast boolits leaves the bore passivated with a coating of moly just the same as Jword moly coated bullets do... protecting the bore from oxidation, adhesion of lead deposits and carbon fouling. In addition, the coating will provide a smoother sliding surface reducing friction and heat providing longer barrel life and extending the lubrication properties of the boolits grease or wax lubricant.

A bullet - coating process developed by (NECO) Nostal-gia Enterprises Company involves tumbling bullets to "impact plate" them with Molybdenum Disulfide, then following up with a coat of carnauba wax. The result: greater accuracy, reduced friction, reduced bore - fouling and, in some cases, reduced bullet - drop - - with the same velocity. Walt Berger, president of Berger Bullets, said his bench rest rifle has more than 800 Moly-coated rounds through it without having seen a brush - he cleans with only a wet patch and a dry patch.

From MidwayUSA:
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/charts/moly_use_instructions.htm
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/charts/moly_faq.htm

MidwayUSA's instructions:

"Cast Bullets: Cast lead bullets should be moly coated before being lubed. The Moly coating does not replace cast bullet lube. Add 1/4 tsp of Technical Grade Moly per 5 pounds (35,000 grains) of bullets. Do not tumble for more than 30 minutes. Clean bowl after coating 50 pounds of bullets."

The fastest, easiest, least messy and least expensive way to moly coat your bullets: Get a pill bottle (One that holds 500 Ibuprofen). This bottle is the perfect size for a 1200 size tumbler; use 2 or 4 pill bottles for small to medium boolits; place them in your tumbler with your media. After pouring the clean, dry, un-lubed, un-sized bullets into the bottles without touching them, simply put in the Moly... less is more - too much is bad, use a tiny amount at first, maybe 1/20th of a teaspoon and adjust the amount until you get an even coat. Put just a tiny bit on the tip of a teaspoon. Close the cap and place in the tumbler. If you have the bottle with a screw on cap, place the cap to the right. If you place the cap to the left, it will unscrew and the bullets will fall out. Tumble the bottle for two hours. Take a shop rag and lay it on the bench. Pour the boolits onto the rag and fold it over and roll the boolits around. The rag will soak up the excess Moly. Dump the boolits onto a second clean shop rag and repeat the process. The second rag will soak up the remaining excess. Now size and lube your boolits. If you shoot large calibers, Jiff plastic Peanut Butter jars work fine too.

Warning: The use of moly doesn't preclude the use of a rust preventative oil or coating in your barrel; pure moly isn't hygroscopic but it doesn't displace moisture. Some industrial grades of moly contain sulfuric acid, technical grade does not. Be careful to obtain a grade of moly suitable for this purpose.

Glen uses moly the easy way... in using his homemade moly lube (1:1 moly grease and beeswax).


Boomer :Fire:

[mike in co]

The advocates of Moly coating are claiming five wonderful things: 1) Longer barrel life, 2) Improved accuracy, 3) First shot accuracy, no fouling shots, 4) Longer times between cleaning with no loss of accuracy and 5) Cleaning of the bore is by far faster and easier.

Boomer :Fire:

boomer...those claims(1-3,5) are advertising hype by non-shooters. bbl cleaning is the results of the original condition of the bbl........good bbls clean easier, great bbl's clean even eiasier. moly does require a different process to clean.
moly does one and only one thing....shoot the same, longer........
if you believe advertising hype, i own a bridge with a great view i need to sell.......

mike in co

[h1tdk00]

I think I see what my problem is, I was trying to use the dry moly coat as the lubracant, but in Boomers post it states that "The Moly coating does not replace cast bullet lube."

If that is the case, I wonder what type of coating they are using on the black bullets that some companies are selling. I really like the Precision bullets that have what they call a "unique dry-lube formula".

[Doc Highwall]

I agree with Mike in CO. The only thing that moly does for shure is allow you to shoot longer, more shots between cleaning with no loss of accuracy. As far as longer barrel life this might be true, only time will tell when some body who has only fired moly bullets can document how many rounds they have fired. I don't think this will take that long with jacketed bullets, but with cast boolits it might take awhile. If I could find somebody to give me the ammunition I would be willing to do it even if you had to twist my arm a little.

[Scrounger]

Moly really made the .17 caliber feasible. It didn't take very much copper fouling to take some accuracy that tiny bore. But moly coating the bullets greatly extended the accuracy life between cleanings.

[Boomer Mikey]

If I was shooting long range or highpower matches I would be using moly like everyone else in those disciplines, I don't.

I use cast bullets for about 90% of my shooting. I enjoy tinkering with things and I value the ability to be self sufficient in providing myself with a reliable source of bullets.

I like the moly coated cast bullets I'm buying from a local bullet maker and the Speer or Hornaday swaged bulk bullets with a moly coating because they work great for CAS and general plinking with very low cost.

I agree with Doc Highwall that JPW or LLA would be great with moly but I can't stand LLA coated bullets (sticky.)

The Bear Creek bullets I'm using feel like they have a carnauba wax coating as they are slippery but dry. I haven't used any Precision Bullets (AKA - the "black bullet") but I plan to order some, their pricing looks good and the coating they use looks similar to what I'm using; however, they only market bullets for 9mm, 40, and 45ACP. Of those, I shoot cast only in 45 ACP.

http://precisionbullets.com/index.html

An article about loading and using Precision Bullets: http://precisionbullets.com/articles/fs0202pg62.htm

I'm satisfied with my experiences using moly coatings on cast bullets; however, that doesn't mean you're on my evil list if you don't care for them and I hope I'm not on your deadbeat list because I don't like LLA.


Boomer :Fire:

[azduke]

Would moly coated bullets work with black powder

[leftiye]

I'd say yes, why not? (Just a WAG). Try it and see. It should provide a moly coating on the bore, but as others here have said, the moly needs wax to work well. Your Black powder fouling might prevent the coating or intrerfere with the process though. The guy who made the MS Moly spray suggested wetting a patch with the spray and coating your bore with it after cleaning. Due to the cleaning requirements for the BP, the coating might have to be renewed after each cleaning.

[Doc Highwall]

I would not suggest using only moly with black powder, You have to use a lube that will keep the fouling soft. I would try your regular lube of a known accuracy with a (SMALL) amount of moly added to it and see if helps. I would weigh out enough lube to lube, say 500 bullets and then add a known percentage of moly, then go up in Known percentages. The only way I can think of doing this is to pan lube. First weigh the pan empty for a starting weight, then add lube with your percentage of moly and lube say 50 bullets and shoot them and compare how they group to the bullets with out moly added. Now weigh the pan to find out how much lube is still in the pan and add another percentage of moly and repeat the group test until you find out if it is better or worse. Remember to only change one thing at a time. They are several makers of black powder lube that have moly in them, Lee Shaver is one of them. The biggest thing I think will happen is you will prevent leading and possibly have to increase the powder charge, ( REMEMBER TO USE SMALL AMMOUNTS OF MOLY ) I hope this helps.

[kamikaze1a]

How would you say Precision coats their bullets? Mixed with lube or apply powder before lube sets?

[Doc Highwall]

I think you would be more consistent if the moly was mixed with the lube then size and lube. Also when you shoot these boolits you are going to be coating the bore. When I get around to it I am going to make a small batch of a known weight of lube mixed with a small volume or weight of moly powder by percentages. USE VERY LITTLE, YOU DO NOT NEED AS MUCH AS YOU THINK. Your second batch you can always increase the amount. Lyman makes a moly lube.

[looseprojectile]

did not have a lot of success. Paper patching is better, I probably didn't do it right. [with moly].
Need to know more about the bridge with a view.
Just think ; A bridge over a salt marsh in Colorado.:drinks:
LIfe is good

[jhalcott]

I'm STILL mulling over Mike reply and wondering WHAT I did wrong! Read ALL the directions , even made a few calls to people who DID use it (moly). I tumbled the bullets AFTER cleaning any residual oils off. After molying ,I heated them to the required 115 degrees and put a dab of Carnuba in with them and tumbled them again. When I shot the bullets in MY 25-06, I noted that it took more shots for the barrel to get hot to the touch. It took 3 to 5 shots to get it to settle in. I had to add about 2 or 3 grains of powder to get back to the pre treated velocity. Premoly groups were sub inch (bags and 20x scope). Post moly groups were roughly the same (after the "settling in shots). What this means is ,I had 3 hours invested in the process BEFORE I loaded one round. I tried cleaning with Shooters choice, Shooters Choice/Kroil (50/50) And Wipe out foaming bore cleaner. NO BRUSHES! This SAME thing was repeated in several calibers . Since I do NOT shoot competively , this seems like a LOT of unneccessary labor to kill a few ground hogs and deer!
Loose projectile MAY have some thing there! Paper patching certainly takes LESS time and works almost as good!

[Westerman]

How would you say Precision coats their bullets? Mixed with lube or apply powder before lube sets?
They use Sandstrom 27A. Liquid. Dipped. Standstrom also sells 27A in aerosol spray cans.
www.sandstromproducts.com/pdfs/e736.pdf (http://www.sandstromproducts.com/pdfs/e736.pdf)

Great product if you are a high volume USPSA, IDPA, etc shooter. Not nearly a smoky as traditional lubes. 27A has approx one year shelf life.

No online ordering. Call 1-800-747-1084 or 1-309-523-2121, ask for Susan Mikles ext. 361

[HamGunner]

Unless you shoot a lot at one time or sessions over a few days, Moly is probably a waste of your time with jacketed bullets. I did find it to stop the copper fouling in a .22 K-Hornet so that I could shoot more than one box of shells through it before it needed cleaning. Moly lets me shoot all I want before cleaning.

I use tupperware containers the size of baby food jars to tumble my bullets in. The lids just snap on and they don't come off. Like Doc Highwall said, a little dab will do ya.

I have not used it for cast. That is something I will have to check out. I plan on trying paper patching also. The prices of store bought bullets is getting out of hand.

[Bass Ackward]

I like molly on a few bullets to put into the bore if I want to shoot long strings with a new gun. You betchya. Once in the bore or after the gun breaks in, normal lubes are enough.

I simply put it in my LLA and then paint the front band with a Q-Tip. If in a clean wheelgun, I might paint the forcing cone too just to stop that begining leading. Lead can't smooth if it ain't polishing steel. Especially if my bullets are way over bore diameter (oLder 625-2) or the gun is fairly new. (less than 5000 rounds)

Paint it anyplace leading is a problem. But I don't use it by itself or for every shot. As Felix says, the mica works too. But I am usually pushing with too soft of bullets for hunting. So every trick helps.