Any Pocket Pistol Paper-Punchers Hereabouts?

[jethrow strait]

Don't know how I ever got into doing this, but it sure is challenging and fun---groups at fifty feet standing build character! Thought it was a bit esoteric----or just nuts---but have found that on a 'good day' with the right load I can regularly keep em within a couple inches.

None of my range buds will have anything to do with it. Was feelin like some kinda dewviant til I saw a post over on the Beretta board by none other than Ed Harris himself, half embarrassed, talking about how much he enjoyed shooting groups with lil 32 auto Berettas. Needless to say, he got no response of content, just one sycophant---serves him right for being so honest as to use his given name on a cyberboard. As a no name, I'm hoping to do better.

My toys are 380s(favorite of urban thugs, lil ole ladies, and Euopean cops in the real world. Shoot cast boolits from 90 to 120 grains. Biggest problem was pickin up the cases, what with 9's and 40's everywhere. Built a little screen with 1" PVC and shadecloth. Problem solved.------jethrow

[fourarmed]

I have a Lee 6 banger for the 93 grain rfn, which turned out to be unloved by my 32 mag. I was secretly thinking of trying it in my 1917 Savage, but I was afraid of being shunned in poolite society.

[45 2.1]

Yep, Walther PP in 32 acp with the RCBS 77 gr. RN shoots just fine.

[StarMetal]

I have a Walther PP .32acp that I shoot the Lyman 74 gr RN (weighs closer to 80 grs) out of. The pistol is damn near target grade in accuracy with this bullet. I occassionaly use this bullet in my 7.62 Tokarev and more so in my 30 Luger.

Joe

[Cherokee]

You have lots of company. I have 3 380's, make that 4 now 25 ACP and 32 ACP as well. Lots of fun.

[Bret4207]

25 Beretta, 380 Astra Constable, Smith Perfected 38 S+W, Charter Bull dog, Star PD. All Pocket Pistols of one sort or another.

[MT Gianni]

3" charter arms bulldog in 4 spcl is as close as I come but it is fun. Gianni.

[Shepherd2]

Kel Tec P-3AT in .380. Only weights about 1/2 pound, groups quite well and isn't too unpleasant to shoot. I shoot it so much I'm been looking at moulds so I can shoot cast.

[jethrow strait]

That's how I got into this pocket pistol thing! Got a Lil Keltec 380. It's recoil doesn' seem any stiffer than that of the 32, and it sure is a go-anyhere handgun, for those times when even the 44 Bulldog is too much. But it aint my idea of a recreational gun! Nonetheless I went out and bought dies, etc. cetc...... So now what???

Why a serious " recreational" pocket pistol, or 2, or 3 of course! I really like the old single-action Beretta 70S, but that damned KGB neck-burner, the MAK in .380 seems to edge it out more often than not! -------jethrow

[David R]

Sorry, no cast boolits in this one, but I have a beretta 21 in 22 Lr. I bet people I can hit a can at 50 feet with it. Then show em I can. I have to hold over the can. Nice made little gun. It can be carried with a live round in the chamber, hammer down and even safty on if you want. I have shot groups at 50 feet, stays in the scoring area.

David

[waksupi]

When Deputy Al gets back from his safari, ask him about cast bullets in the .25 ACP. He loves to talk about it.

[floodgate]

Pocket Pistols HA!!! Now here's a REAL pocket pistol....

And yes, I do load cast boolits; just didn't have any handy tonight. Think a center-fire .22 Magnum, using .22 CCM or Extra-Long Maynard cases. I can hit a barn every time - from INSIDE!

[Wayne Smith]

Humm, got me thinking, too. Anybody loading cast in a Makarov? I've just been shooting Wolf, since I have a case. Don't even have dies, yet. Would need to get it set up to reload and cast. Any suggestions for a readily available mold that makes oversize 9mm?

[jethrow strait]

Wayne, been shooting cast in Mak9s for years(separate event from "pocket pistol" just cause I wanna do it that way). In fact, don't mean to boast(heh, heh!), but I placed third in the 2nd Annual Makarov.com National Postal Match(first shot had to be shot DA)a couple of years ago. Course, they were just getting started back then, and there were only five entries!. But, I can assure you I was the only entrant using Cast Boolits. Nice folks, sent me a bunch of Mak related trinkets. ........and the answer to your cast boolit inquiry is, IMHO, the Makarov.com custom 6 banger Lee 95gr/SWC(yes, I said SWC, only such in existence to my knowledge, feeds fine and makes purty holes in the paper too). You can contact them at Makarov.com. Heck, they are in West Virginy now, not too far from you, at least by western standards.

There are others. Never had much luck with the Lee RN offering, but the Lyman variant was ok. As I recall, Deputy Al, thought the RCBS RN was good, but I have yet to try it myself.

Much as I hate to end with a pitch for a commercial cast boolit, especially from a company that recently raised it's prices by fifty per cent, I have had exceptionally good luck with the Meister 93grRN, but I bought my inventory from a local shop(no freight)way back when for $27 a thou.----jethrow

[fourarmed]

That is a nice-looking revolver, floodgate, is that what they call a Velo Cat?

[floodgate]

That is a nice-looking revolver, floodgate, is that what they call a Velo Cat?

Fourarmed:

Ray probably would, but it is better known as a "Velo-DOG" - for bicyclists to zap threatening canines. There was even a version made to fit into the end of the handlebar and look like a hand-grip. It is really the old .22 Extra-Long Center-Fire Maynard from 1882, picked up in Europe around 1900 as the Velo-Dog, and recently revived by Cooper Arms as the .22 Cooper Centerfire Magnum - loaded a LOT hotter, of course. A couple of the "gang" here have these. It has also been necked down into a .17 CCM. This revolaver will be a companion to a Stevens #44 "parts" rifle I hope to finish putting together during our rainy season. (Of course, I've been saying that for the last three or four years.) The current Boxer-primed Fiocchi brass shown in the photo is nearly worthless: it is under-annealed, and cracks when fired, even in a fairly tight chamber - also, it gives about 50% misfires. Older Fiocchi Berdan stuff from the 1970's works fine, but is a pain to reload. I lucked into the last few hundred cases Cooper had in stock, but a couple of the brass suppliers are making them out of .22 Hornets. They are also easy to make from 5/16" brass rod stock, if you have a lathe; a Sinclair small primer pocket uniformer finishes that part of the job. I need to get going on the rifle and report results.

Floodgate

[Ed Barrett]

I confess I'm a PA63 cast shooter. It's the Hungarian light weight clone of the Makarov which is a clone of the Walther PP. With 2.0 Gr of Bullseye and 90 Grain cast it will make tiny groups and doesn't seem to kick at all, I can get it to work the slide reliably at 1.6 Gr. but I want some power. <G>

[crazy mark]

I shoot the 38 S&W and a accutek and eaa 380 auto's. Mark

[imashooter2]

My first pistol was a Walther PP in .32 ACP. I've shot an awful lot of 90 grain SWC out of that thing. Each one lovingly hammered together in a Lee Loader. I haven't shot it for years now...

[9.3X62AL]

Waksupi--

I DO NOT reload--or even shoot--the 25 ACP. The 25 ACP die set's sizer die gets used as a low-rent neck sizer for the 25-20. On another note, during our trip through Canada, horses were referred to as "Waksupi Herefords", and beef cattle as "Alberta Percherons"--in commemoration of your observations on Canadian table fare. You'll be famous in that province in short order--I guarantee it.

I mess around with a Walther PP in 32 ACP quite a bit, using Lyman #313249 at 800-900 FPS for some pretty good target work. My view is that the 32 ACP is a lot more accurate than the 380 ACP overall.

The RCBS 95 grain x .365" RN feeds and functions flawlessly in my East German Makarov, and I just kept adding WW-231 until I got to its design limit of 1100 FPS. Start loads were listed max/380 ACP loads. Any 95 grainer at that speed is a little fierce from a pocket blowback, but the caliber is a real step up from the 380 ACP.

For the esoteric times, I also stuff Lyman #313249's into 7.65 French MAS M-1935 pistols. This is sort of a 32 Super Auto, and the caliber was the French issue sidearm prior to WWII. They resemble a SIG P-210 that shrunk in the wash, and are a locked-breech Browning toggle-link design......so they aren't exactly a pocket pistol, although the Nazis probably thought the pistols were cute and that the French were thoughtful to provide them as gifts in 1940. The pistols were presciently supplied with two magazines and a white flag from the factory. A few original spare mags exist, but the flags were worn threadbare prior to D-Day, and are seldom encountered.

[Scrounger]

Waksupi--

I DO NOT reload--or even shoot--the 25 ACP. The 25 ACP die set's sizer die gets used as a low-rent neck sizer for the 25-20. On another note, during our trip through Canada, horses were referred to as "Waksupi Herefords", and beef cattle as "Alberta Percherons"--in commemoration of your observations on Canadian table fare. You'll be famous in that province in short order--I guarantee it.

And sheep as 'Prarie Wives'?

[9.3X62AL]

I think the term used was "Sagebrush Concubines", not specific to an end user.

[waksupi]

Waksupi--

On another note, during our trip through Canada, horses were referred to as "Waksupi Herefords", and beef cattle as "Alberta Percherons"--in commemoration of your observations on Canadian table fare. You'll be famous in that province in short order--I guarantee it.


Al, I'm glad you enjoyed the horse beef. And you were to late. I was already infamous in Alberta! Good to have you all back!

[jethrow strait]

So Dty. Al. where did you acquire this notion that the 32 ACP is inherently more accurate than the 380ACP????? Is that the ' conventional wisdom', your experience or je ne se pas de qua? Bring me up to speed.

I've alway regard the 32ACP as a pure ********* for purely personal and idiosyncratic reasons. A relative gave me a 'bring-back' Walther PPK or somesuch back in the 1950's in my early teens(different times, doncha know
), which I despised in my youthful exuberance(lousy trigger, expensive amoo and inaccurate)and gave to my brother. Never have quite recovered from that.------jethrow

[9.3X62AL]

Jethro--

All that French from a guy so near the SOUTHERN border was quite a surprise.

I don't know if there's much "conventional wisdom" out there regarding the 32 ACP vs. 380 ACP accuracy-wise. Neither is a very good bad guy stopper, and they are conspiciously absent from Camp Perry in the "any centerfire" category. I've shot a lot of both calibers in a variety of pistols--Beretta, Walther, Colt, SIG-Sauer, H&K, and Mauser. Over all that, the 32 ACP shoots groups about 1/4 to 1/3 smaller than the 380's have. The 9 x 18 Makarov shoots as well as the 32 ACP. I'll use the 32 ACP and the 9Mak on small game, but the 380 is enough worse accuracy-wise to not make the cut for such uses. I currently don't have a 380 on board, but own two 32 ACP's. One 32 I really regret selling was a Beretta M-81, basically a 32 version of the M-84 with two-column magazine. It fit my hand a lot better than most pocket blowbacks do, and shot well. I have some ideas why the 32 ACP might be more accurate, but since they're only half-baked I won't serve them.

Jeff Cooper once said that if you chose to limit yourself to pocket blowbacks, the 22 LR might be the best choice to make. I agreed until I got hold of the Makarov--it would be a good service pistol with JHP's, methinks.

[StarMetal]

jethrow strait,

I don't think you know poop about pocket pistol calibers. The .32 acp is inherently accurate. Look at some of the 32 target revolvers that were made. Anyways Deputy Al and myself have amassed more knowledge with these small bores they you'd ever be able . 380 are sorta hard to reload being the bullets want to cock going into the case during seating. 32's don't have this problem, 25 auto have it though, also. I ran alot of penetration tests of various handgun caliblers, 32 acp being one. It out penetrates a 380. The CIA like the 32 acp over the 380 due to that and the way it, in their words, rattled around inside your ribcage. I have a stiff little load using Bullseye, and a cast bullet to boot, that surely would make your raise your eyebrows.

As far as the Walther you had that you critize, you must have had a lemon, as this is possible in all mechanical devices in the world. All the Walther products are benchmarks that others are judged by and the PP series certainly ranks above most of them. I have a 32 acp PP Wather that I bet will out shoot alot of your handguns.

Whenever someones owns, shoots, and reloads for some oddball smallbore piston calibers such as the 32acp, 30 Mauser, 30 Luger, 7.62x25 Tokarev and others...such has done Deputy Al and myself you are gifted with a vast knowledge of their usefulness superior characteristics.

Yeah you hit a nerve about one of my favorite little rounds, the 32 acp.

Joe

P.S. I see Charger, Swagerman, now myself getting alittle testy here on the forum...has winter blues and cabinfever set in early?

[Bullshop]

Jethrow
I use them little 32 autoes in a couple J frame Smiths and they can shoot perty good. BSM has two, a stainless 4" 32 mag and a much older 2.5 or 3" 32 long. The acp has enough rim that it works just fine in the revolvers. If you check auctions you can get O.F. range brass perty dog gone cheap.
BIC/BS

[fourarmed]

There is a lower limit of .32 caliber on the "any centerfire" category of NRA bullseye, because back in the '30s Charles Askins had Pachmayr Gun Works convert a High Standard .22 to .25 auto, and used it in winning the national pistol championship. Guess it depends on the gun as well as the ammo.

[Scrounger]

There is a lower limit of .32 caliber on the "any centerfire" category of NRA bullseye, because back in the '30s Charles Askins had Pachmayr Gun Works convert a High Standard .22 to .25 auto, and used it in winning the national pistol championship. Guess it depends on the gun as well as the ammo.

Beg pardon, but that was ".22 Velo-Dog", a European caliber popular for bicycle guns a hundred years or so ago, not .25 Auto. I enjoyed Askin's book; he sure was no shrinking violet.

[StarMetal]

I saw a Ruger Mark I converted to 32 acp by Nowlin, one slick pistol. I thought about having that done for quite some time.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Joe continues to win friends and influence people apace. There's not a whole lot of people reloading the 32 ACP either now or in the past, and few of the pistols chambered for it were accuracy-oriented. By default rather than design, the 32 ACP can provide useful accuracy for small game and informal paper punching. The idea advanced above that the guns and their sight systems are the weak link in the chain of accuracy is quite correct in my view. I won't and don't claim any sort of expertise in this venue, just a little more time with the critters than a lot of folks who rightfully concentrated on more viable and flexible calibers and platforms like 38 Specials/357 Magnums in fine wheelguns and 45 ACPs fired in well-tuned 1911A1s. I'm a crank that pursues esoteric questions about how and why certain oddball mid-caliber handgun rounds got left behind, and in the pursuit I've found some utility for the chamberings and the handguns that house them.

The 32 ACP comes from a day when a lot more armed encounters were lawfully settled with fleeing felons--armed or not--by installing one or a series of rounds into the departing miscreant to at minimum identify the involved party. Not too many people get shot each day, even in the crummiest neighborhoods--so when the miscreant showed up at the hospital to get patched up his wounds gave at least circumstantial evidence of involvement with the incident prompting the fusillade in the first place. When the shooting of unarmed fleeing felons fell from legal favor circa 1960's, the cops and armed citizens were handed a new equation of contact with armed goblins that no 32 caliber sidearm is appropriate to address. There are still "scads" of these 32 ACP pistols in circulation (thank you, Frank Barnes), and many can provide cheap shooting entertainment if you're willing to recycle the empties produced by a range session with the little beasts.

[Bret4207]

I don't think it's cabin fever. Take a pill.

[StarMetal]

Is that what you do Tpr Bret?

Joe

[jethrow strait]

Thanks to all! As ole Will Rogers said, "We are all ignorant, just of different things." Some are just a little more loutish than others in expressing theirs.----- But, I'm sure, we are all doing our best.----jethrow

[StarMetal]

Hey Jethro...cool. I just think you may have gotten a bum Walther and/or didn't spend enough really dedicated time with it. They really are fine guns and as Deputy Al pointed out they lack good sights. You have to realize that they were intended for close up personal protection and not target shooting. That's a shame because they do have the inherent accuracy. I've told Al I'd love to see what my 32 acp PP would do with a longer barrel/slide and target sites.

Hey you know if you have a 32 mag Ruger single action (can kick myself in the butt for not buying one of those) that you can shoot 32 acps in it? The 32 acp as you notice has a slight rim and it it will support it in a cylinder. Kinda be like a long rifle and short situation for that niffty 32 revolver.

Joe

[Bret4207]

Yup, Zoloft. Keeps me from beating ignorant morons half to death on the side of the road. Check with your local Doc.

[jethrow strait]

Geeze Joe, you really are a .32 ACP freak(oops, forgot my Zoloft). Seems like sacrilege to me, putting one of them lil pills in my Ruger 32Mag SS. But, I have shot a lot of 32 S&W long in it with better results than with the 32 Mag itself. Just for laughs I'll give the ACP a try in it. Have a friend who has been trying to dump his wimpy .32ACP Kel-Tec, ever since he tried my macho Kel-Tec 3AT....sure he has shells to spare.---jethrow

[9.3X62AL]

I forget which loading manual listed it.....maybe an older Speer Manual--but I recall some text about a Browning "Grande Modele" in 380 ACP caliber with better sights and ergonomics that was more able to exploit accuracy. No time in hand with any such critter myself, though. The Ruger rimfire auto "punched out" to 32 ACP would be an intriguing example, but I suspect its cost might exceed that of a new CZ-550. If it were a little more affordable, I'm enough of a mid-caliber pistol crank to order one. In such ventures, the question "what the hell for?" doesn't often occur to me.

Here goes with my half-baked ideas I balked at earlier. The 32 ACP along with the 38 Auto were Browning's earlier series of self-loading pistol rounds that included a semi-rim design element. The rimless idea came along a few years later, in 1905 with the first 45 ACP ideation and the 380 in 1908. The later 38 Super used the same exterior case dimensions as the older 38 Auto, complete with the semi-rim.

Conventional wisdom has held that the rimless case design/headspace on case mouth regimen is more intrinsically accurate than the semi-rim/headspace on cartridge rim regimen. When 38 Supers were being accurized and developed for IPSC-type competition some years back, much was said about setting headspace on the case mouth rather than the rim of the 38 Super casings being used for these gun games. In the midst of the accuracy mods being made to these guns, the 38 Super was found to be a right accurate round--and the headspacing change was given the nod as the reason for the dramatic accuracy upgrade. I don't know if other mods were factored out of the equation to arrive at that determination, but there it was there--Headspace Is The Reason. That said, Buckshot has a box-stock 38 Super service pistol that drives tacks--so I think the rep for inaccuracy that the 38 Super held is a weak argument.

Whatever. I started playing around with the now-departed Beretta and the still-present Walther PP about this time, thinking about the headspace question from the 38 Super--case mouth, or rim edge? The chambers of both barrels had the abrupt chamber step where the case mouth meets the throat, so there was a potential for setting headspace like a 45 ACP--if the cases were long enough to reach.

They weren't. Even at max length (.680"), cases seated firmly on the rim before getting to the leade edge. What I did notice during this process was the extreme range of case length variance in W-W and R-P cases, both between and within brands in once-fired cases from factory loads. Same story with new brass purchased as components--lengths ranged from .667" to .678".

I tried a test--trimming cases to .675" and rejecting any that didn't "clean up" at that length. It took about 130 cases to get 50 R-P and 50 W-W cases that were all .675" long. I still had about 275 cases of mixed make sitting around, so I loaded the 100 trimmed cases with Rem 71 grain FMJ's to about 800 FPS with WW-231, and 50 more of each brand from the untrimmed pile. This made 25 rounds for each pistol from each of four lots of ammo. Details aside, the trimmed case ammo decisively shot better groups than did the random-case-length ammo in both pistols--on the order of 25%-30% smaller groups. The effect occurred with cast boolits later, using #313249.

The 380 ACP cases showed the same sort of length anomalies, and were treated to the same regimen a few years later. Accuracy improved somewhat, but not to the degree that the 32 ACP ammo showed. The 380 started out worse with factory loads, didn't improve as dramatically, and couldn't catch the 32 ACP. I even used the most accurate of three 380's to give the 32 a real race--the SIG-Sauer P-230--and still no cigar. A very fine pistol, but it couldn't quite keep up.

Why this is the case in my experience is conjectural. I'm satisfied that the 32 ACP shoots better than the 380 ACP overall, and that the 32 ACP shoots well enough for small game and rats to 35-40 yards. My goal was to justify using the 380 over the 32 for these hunting venues, but the opposite of my intentions was the result. I admit that my prejudices favored the 380, and even with that substantial bias the 32 won out.

[jethrow strait]

You guys are beating my newfound .380ACP passion to a pulp-----first I was pummeled by Starman's purple prose and now, even worse, the newfound object of my affection is being dissected by the retired, and seemingly every day brighter, Deputy Al's laboratory exegesis. But, greatness comes only with perseverence!

I may be just tilting at windmills like Don Quixote, but so be it. Sancho, my .380, por favor!!!!------------jethrow

[9.3X62AL]

The last time I contracted an exegesis, it took three weeks of Bancomycin treatment to get rid of it. Nasty stuff.

Not trying to cool your fondness for the 380 here, just trying to add my bit to the discourse and maybe suggest some tweaks that might help get you where you want to be.

I don't necessarily believe the 380 is an absolute loser. Not at all. I didn't do extensive shooting with cast boolits in the caliber, and if there's an accurate load out there for the caliber, it will be had with quality boolits that fit closely and are tailored to the pistol's quirks and dimensions. A truncated cone or round flat nose that fed well--fit the grooves closely--made of relatively hard metal--and lubed with softer stuff--might yield better results than I got with the caliber. Vary the pressures/velocities a bit, try some powders other than "the usual suspects" (Bullseye, WW-231, AA-2). Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot, maybe even Herco might get ya to the Promised Land. I didn't try any of the medium-speed fuels except Unique, so there's a LOT of country I didn't cover on the 380 ACP trip.

[jethrow strait]

Deputy Al, I'm just jesting, of course. Under the pleasantly pernicious in fluence of our rangemaster, I have become a bit of a handgonne guy over the past year and a half, after being a 'rifleman' my whole life. Sometimes I think I would be content to just shoot 3 different versions of 41Mag y nada mas forever, but my battery tells me otherwise.

The .380 a child of the Keltec 3AT, which I found a necessity but no fun to practice with. You see, I'm 'carrying' on a regular basis for the first time in my life since being jumped on my own property by a couple of illegals akin to barrio gang punks, not the gentle latino folk that have been pouring through here for years. Guess an old fart alone on his knees in the dirt with nothing more than a hand trowel was just too easy a target. Yep, as the Border Patrol guys told me, the days of "Vaya te!" are over. It just gets worse and worse and no politicians of any stripe are actually doing a damn thing about it. End of rant!

In the real world, as opposed to cyberspace, no one with a .32 ACP has actually outshot me with either the Bersa or the Mak .380. Of course, around here precious few shoot either. Yes I've had some good luck with Unique and Herco mixed with heavy truncated cone or roundnosed boolits. Oddest thing of all, the Bersa which normally shoots a 102gr RN best, just loves 115gr. FMJ surplus 9mm condoms giving me regular sub-1" five-shot groups at fifty feet from the bench, and under 2'' standing. Probably not the place to say that, but there it is.-----jethrow

[StarMetal]

Why in the hell would you carry a 380? Shoot man, I mean they make 9mm's as small as 380's now, even 45acps.

My one friend in Tulsa but a 380 Astra Constable at the Tulsa Gun Show one time we were there. Boy that little sucker shot pretty good, we both were impressed.

I know my PP Walther will outshoot your Bersa and at 25 yards, no 50 feet.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Sub-1" groups at 50 feet is right fine from any pocket stuttergun, for damn sure.

Joe--my backup guns have ranged from Walther TPH 22 LR through the PP x 32 ACP and SIG-Sauer 380. They are eye socket specials, period. That's why I carried/carry mine. The field and recreational use for the pistols is just icing on the cake.

Jethrow--those "fugitives from oppression" you encountered are definitely a part of the northbound onslaught. A significant percentage of these illegals body-pack marijuana and narcotics to pay the freight for their crossing, and others are just crooks. Bad business, all around.

[StarMetal]

Deputy Al

You said the majic word...backup gun. Now a small gun for that I can see. But the main gun has to be a good big one.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Deputy Al

You said the majic word...backup gun. Now a small gun for that I can see. But the main gun has to be a good big one.

Joe

Joe--yeah, a good big one with sling. A Win 95 in 9.3 x 62, perhaps.

[El Oso]

For fun I break out My S&W Safety Hammerless stoked with a .310 round ball over 1gr. Bulleye. I use my .22 sillouette targets, if you are carefull hitting the ram at15 yards not a problem. I also have a Iver Johnson T/B in 32 S&W same load same fun. I just got a Kel-Tec P3-AT it is a blast to play with I've already ordered reloading dies because I think factory ammo would put me in the poor house. I bought a Makarov a long time ago with adjustable sights that I could not believe how well it shot, you would think that someone from one of the gun magazine would have told the world about these little gems.
WATCH YOUR SIX
El Oso :Fire:

[Bret4207]

Well, I won't claim any "vast knowledge" or that I've "accumulated more knowledge than anyone else would ever be able to do", but I will add a little bit. My "pocket pistol" learning curve has increased a great deal in the past few years. My first little gun was a Bernadelli 22. A PPK knock off, it was a wonder, most of the time. The trigger return spring was a bit weak and it would go full auto from time to time. The stupid little thing would shoot though. I've gone on from there and noew have several in the barn. The little Beretta 25 is a pocket gun. Fits in any pocket I got and always fires and the cases get blow out nicely. I've put down enough animals with the GD 35hp stuff to see it's no more than a 22, and thats how I think of it. With decent sights, (and a shooter with younger eyes), it might actually turn in some respectable groups. 3" at 15 yards is about it for now. My Astra Constable 380 is a big step up. Nice gun, nice sights, nice feel. The thing is a shooter. At 15 yards in good light 1.5" groups can be had. I've done some that were better, but don't know if that was luck or the gun and me having a karma thing at the time. The Charter 44 is so light it qualifies. Monster masher loads aren't needed. Shoots low and left, but under 2" at 25 yards on good days. The Star PD 45acp shoots 3" at 25 day in day out. I don't put much through this becasue I'm just pain afraid of breaking something. Oh, the horror stories of trying to find parts. It may never break, but why risk it? I recently got some buffers that are supposed to fit and maybe then I'll shoot her a little more. I don't carry 24/7. Some guys do, but I'm not in that mode. But when I do I know what I can do with the guns I have. Yeah, the 25 and 380 are mouse guns. But, as I've said before, having been on both ends of the issue I know even the lowly 22 looks pretty deadly when it's pointed at you!

[Bodydoc447]

Who currently makes a good 9 mmMakarov mold? I saw the post above for the Makarov.com SWC. Is the Lee RN any good? I cannot find listings for the Lyman or RCBS molds in the catalogs I have. Please point me in the right direction on those if they are still made.

I have a nice East German Mak and a set of dies I have never used (don't have a mold and the ammo is so damned cheap I wouldn't buy condomed bullets).

BTW I really LOVE the Colt 1903 with cast boolits. Not real good sights but a dream to shoot.

Thanks,
Doc

[Scrounger]

RCBS cleverly hides it under the listing 9MM Makarov :-D The part number is 82248, it is 100grains and round-nosed.

It occurs to me that this link to the RCBS Cast Bullet moulds would be helpful: http://www.rcbs.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=9&s3=83&pg=3

And this link to Castpics, OUR website where a lot of data is stored, as well as links to a lot of manufacturers and sales organizations. If you haven't been there before, you can spend a profitable hour checking it out:
http://www.castpics.net/

[Bodydoc447]

Thanks, Scrounger. Sometimes the obvious eludes me. I was looking at distributors like MidSouth, Midway, Grafs for a mould and couldn't find anything but the Lee.

Doc

[9.3X62AL]

The Mak is one fine blowback pistol, for sure. I have the RCBS mold, and the boolits shoot very well for me from my East German fixed-sight variant. Powder doesn't seem to matter too much--any of the usual suspects (Bullseye, WW-231 in my gun) starting at 380 ACP levels and working up to +10% or a bit more should get you where you want to go. The pistol is designed for 95 grain bullets to 1115 FPS, and having run a couple lots of reloads through it at that level--it becomes The Pocket Pistol From Hell. An accurate little handful of recoil, for sure. Top-end loads really launch the empties, too. I have used only R-P reformed and trimmed 9mm Para cases and Unique powder for these loads, so I don't know what could happen in Mak cases with possibly differing capacities. I've also shot a few jackrabbits with the full-house JHP and cast loads, and they do impressive work--definite impact sound (THA-WHOCK!!) and satisfying target element distribution, far more so than with 9mm Para subsonics.