Needed M1 Carbine Load for the Lyman 311359

[Mr Jim]

I have a National Ordnance M1 Carbine with a Wolfs spring pac installed that functions great with 11.5gr of 2400. My problem is that my local gun shop is having a problem getting in more 2400 in stock. He said there is a nation wide shortage of this powder. I then tried 12gr of IMR4227 and started to have FTE problems. I also tried 6gr SR-4756 and had even more FTEs. My local gun shop does have H110 and WW296, but my Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook has no loads listed for these two powders. Does someone have a load that I can work up on?

[spfd1903]

Most all my Underwood M1 loads are with H110, and VV N110. Never had luck, accuracy wise, with other powders. Use the Lee C309-113-F and the similar NOE mold.

[Mr Jim]

Any suggestions for starting grain weights (Min/Max) not to hold you to it, but it will give me idea were to start.

[avogunner]

Try 12gr of that H110.....you'll be glad you did.
Semper Fi

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[Mr Jim]

Thank you, I will get some H110 Saturday and start loading a few.

[Mr Jim]

When using only 12grs of H110 in a carbine, can this
pose any danger problems like all of the warnings about the min/max of this powder?

[avogunner]

Nope, never had a problem and have been using that load for a few years now. It came from a pretty savvy member that used to post here (which I considered his info to be gospel). He suggested you start at 12 gr and work up to 1850 - 1900 fps - of course stop if psi problems are noticeable. Do you have a chronograph?

[fatelvis]

He suggested you start at 12 gr and work up to 1850 - 1900 fps
According to Quickload, 12.0 grns of H110 under a 311359 in a 18" bbl, will produce 18,895psi (Max is 46,412 psi), and get you 1578fps. It seems as though this load is more than safe, considering pressure.
Just for informational purposes, QL figures 14.3 grns of H110 will produce 33,650psi and 1896fps.

[Mr Jim]

No, I don't have a chronograph, but believe me if the action works at 12.0 grns. That is were I stop. I have 10 rounds load at 12grns of H110 and will be at the range Monday morning. Will give a report when I get back. Thanks for all the input from everyone.

[jimb16]

I've used 12.5 gr of H110 without a problem. 12.0 gr of 4227 is a bit on the light side. My carbines have always worked better with at least 12.5 gr.

[Mr Jim]

Just came back from the range and the 12gr of H110 worked flawlessly. The only thing I noticed is a little primer flatting. I don't know if this is a sign over pressure or normal or if I should back off another 1/2 or 1 grain. What do you think?

[dubber123]

Just came back from the range and the 12gr of H110 worked flawlessly. The only thing I noticed is a little primer flatting. I don't know if this is a sign over pressure or normal or if I should back off another 1/2 or 1 grain. What do you think?


If the Quickload estimation given by fatelvis in post #8 are correct, and you are making less than 20,000 Psi, I would surely look elsewhere for the cause of your flattened primers. Glad it functioned well for you.

[silhouetteshooter]

I have a National Ordnance M1 Carbine with a Wolfs spring pac installed that functions great with 11.5gr of 2400. My problem is that my local gun shop is having a problem getting in more 2400 in stock. He said there is a nation wide shortage of this powder. I then tried 12gr of IMR4227 and started to have FTE problems. I also tried 6gr SR-4756 and had even more FTEs. My local gun shop does have H110 and WW296, but my Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook has no loads listed for these two powders. Does someone have a load that I can work up on?

I have been reloading for 40 years, and especially the carbine....my favorite past time toy.
There are kkkkk's of shooters who use the carbine and you will get a voluminous amount of replies and help, and we all have our own receipt's.
Here's mine:
13.0/grns imr4227/ly#410/ww/wsr. Or, 13.5/1680/ly#311359gc/ww/wsr. If you have the old WW680, that is very close to AA1680. You can substitute the ly#410 for the ly359gc, but the first two loads are my very best. Also, flat primers DO NOT necessarily mean too hot a load. Without going into it, read Lyman's Reloading book on reloading. Another good source of info I feel immensely popular is, Handloader by Wolfe Productions, Prescott, Az. A reasonable subscription at a meager price. Certainly hope this info will have some benefits for your R&D and future pleasures.
A side note: I myself am a displaced N.E. Pennsylvanian!

ww: wheelweights
wsr: Winchester small rifle
175028

[Mr Jim]

I thank all who replied to my question

[runfiverun]

flat primers can be a sign of low pressure too just as a backed out primer can indicate low pressure.
I gave up on trying to read primers long ago, unless I see something silly like an ejector imprint in one of my 92's.
and even then I have to take the primers construction into account.

most carbines need pressure and speed to operate properly when I first started working with them I usually had issues with them not working properly because I was starting waay too low with my load data.
I couldn't tell you how many rounds I fired pulling that little handle back every time.

[Sur-shot]

With cast bullets and the carbine make sure you wipe off the case mouth after you seat and crimp the case mouth to straight. I had one detonate on my son. He was loading the 130gr RN bullet and was scraping a wee bit of lead as he seated. The lead gathered up in the chamber cut and finally allowed the old gun to fire just barely out of battery. Blew the right lug and extractor right off the bolt.
Ed

[GooseGestapo]

You can avoid the previous mentioned problem by seating and crimping in separate steps.
I use a Lee Factory crimp die as it uses pressure on the shell holder and totally avoids lead shaving,and is tolerant of varying case lengths.

[psweigle]

As stated, with cast boolits, it is wise to seat and crimp separate. H110 and win 296 are the only powders I use with both the j-word and cast for my buddies inland m1. It seems to like it better than all the others we have tried.

[avogunner]

I love cast in my carbine. This is Lyman's 311576 over H110 @ 50yds.
182794

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[jimb16]

Your problem most likely isn't the loads, Those Wolf recoil springs are too strong and cause FTF problems in many carbines due to short stroking. Try a decent recoil spring and I'll bet your problems disappear immediately.

[mattw]

I use 10.5 of H110 Data power and 11.5 of H110 consumer powder. The data powder is old, may not be findable now. It is the better of the 2 loads.

[dale2242]

I have shot 1000s of 311395 with H110.
H110/296 was developed for the 30 Carbine.
I am now using WC820...dale

[Bob Busetti]

13.0 grs. of WW296 or H110 is a very good load. The nice thing about this load is all the fired brass lands in one place & it always cycles the rifle properly.

[ncbearman]

Here's mine:
13.0/grns imr4227/ly#410/ww/wsr.


This is exactly the same load I came up with years ago. 4227 is fast and works the action well. Very accurate in my Carbine.
Flat primers could be from not seating well, low pressure, high pressure, I just seat them well and trust the chrono.
The M1 Carbine is one of the most if not THE most fun old MilSurp rifles to shoot. 30+ years of fun in fact! I think I'm gonna shoot it tomorrow. [smilie=s:

[308Jeff]

I've used nothing but AA#9 for my 30 Carbine loads. Last time I checked, it was available at www.powdervalleyinc.com

I can look up my data when I get home, if you're interested.