BE-86, Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot .38 Snubby Chrono Data

[Low Budget Shooter]

Here are the initial results of an experiment I ran recently. I hope it helps everybody figure out how to use the new BE-86.

Summary:
At standard pressure, BE-86 edges out Unique in velocity, and is less susceptible than Unique to change in velocity with change in powder position, but all powders give only pitifully slow velocity.

With 158 grain bullet, BE-86 and Unique are almost perfect equals at 5.0 grains charge weight.

BE-86 makes impressive velocity jump at max +P load of 5.7 grains to reach about 850 fps.

Procedure: 35Remington documented how typical .38 Special loads are slower when the powder is forward, as when a concealed gun is drawn to fire, than when powder is rearward, nearer the primer. So I shot the rounds in pairs. The gun was pointed downward for loading, then drawn to level for firing the first shot. The second shot was then fired without lowering the gun.

Load Data: Most of what I tested were the max standard pressure and +P loads from the current, 2016 Alliant manual.

Powder: Red Dot, Bullseye, Unique, and BE-86 were all purchased new within the last year (2015-2016).

Load Equipment: Red Dot was dispensed with Dillon powder measure on 550. All other powders dispensed with Lee pro disk measure. Weights of powder were verified against check weights and were all measured on the same old Ohaus scale in the same session.

Crimp: Very firm roll crimp in crimping groove.

Test Gun: Old Charter Arms Police Bulldog 1 7/8" barrel

Temperature: 100 degrees at least

Results:

130 grain FMJ
Winchester Factory Ammo
Shot 1 697 709 average 703
Shot 2 726 732 average 729

158 grain lead bullet at standard pressure
(Bullet was 360640 weighing 156 grains, made of soft range scrap, lubed with Red Carnauba, sized .359)

3.4 gr Red Dot
Shot 1 619 617 637 avg 624
Shot 2 628 667 653 avg 649

3.5 gr Bullseye
Shot 1 661 632 680 656 628 avg 651
Shot 2 657 648 635 671 646 avg 651

4.7 gr Unique
Shot 1 613 615 609 635 618 avg 618
Shot 2 675 673 690 699 673 avg 682

4.6 gr BE-86
Shot 1 663 686 689 698 701 672 avg 684
Shot 2 691 680 702 708 702 avg 697

158 grain lead bullet at +P pressure

3.8 gr Red Dot
Shot 1 654 694 625 667 682 avg 664
Shot 2 678 713 638 646 683 avg 671

3.9 gr Bullseye
Shot 1 708 689 685 708 703 avg 699
Shot 2 720 700 719 730 713 avg 716

5.0 gr Unique
Shot 1 693 729 724 680 735 avg 712
Shot 2 716 724 734 724 767 avg 733

5.0 gr BE-86
Shot 1 755 721 695 719 736 739 687 avg 721
Shot 2 729 704 709 746 726 716 735 avg 723

5.4 gr BE-86
Shot 1 766 770 752 avg 762
Shot 2 742 794 786 avg 774

5.7 gr BE-86 (Bullet change to 360640 HP 150 grains)
Shot 1 855 861 802 avg 839
Shot 2 884 850 avg 867

163 grain 358429 HP at +P pressure
(MP mold that has bullet seated .03 more deeply than standard Lyman bullet.)

4.7 gr Unique
Shot 1 766 743 avg 750
Shot 2 713 737 avg 727

4.6 gr BE-86
Shot 1 697 710 718 avg 708
Shot 2 730 733 758 avg 740

5.0 gr Unique
Shot 1 796 813 753 avg 787
Shot 2 804 775 812 avg 797

5.0 gr BE-86
Shot 1 737 757 789 767 762 avg 762
Shot 2 757 758 779 759 727 avg 756

[Certaindeaf]

It looks like those'll all poke a hole pretty deep.

[Pablo 5959]

Thanks for the good work. This is very informative.
It's good to see someone else is working with BE-86. I have about 12 lbs of it an have worked with it in 9mm- .44 mag.
There's not much info, so I will take the closest published data and drop it by 15% and work down until I get dirty cases. Noting accuracy until I find a good load.

[JeffG]

I have used BE-86 in 45 Colt, 9x19 and 7.62x25 Tok and love it in all of them. The velocity does seem to run higher. I haven't tried it yet in 9x18 Makarov or 38 Special only because I am using up other powders. Below are chrono results with 9x19.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?273165-9mm-and-Alliant-BE-86-Chronograph-Results

[FergusonTO35]

Nice work. Interestingly, my chrono work with a 158 grain slug and 3.4 grains Bullseye in my little S&W 637 with 1-7/8 barrel is around 80 fps faster. I find wadcutters really shine in this gun. They require less powder to achieve the same velocity and are of course quite accurate.

[Low Budget Shooter]

If the chrono I'm using reads 80fps slow, I'll sure be glad!

[35remington]

Good testing regimen, very real world.

Interesting that my revolvers also near 100 fps faster depending upon load. My medium price Rossi which is a bit under 1/4 inch longer than my 17/8 inch Smiths is only 12 to 17 fps faster. Bought the Rossi in my poor post college days and it's been a decent piece. Not plus P rated but if you handload 850 fps is possible at supposed standard pressures with a 158.

That will do in plenty. Trouble is that is with the powder backward. Reliable front to back has a little less top end but still enough for my purposes.

How's the b/c gap and cylinder throat dimensions of that Charter? End shake?

[35remington]

In looking at the other data some of the velocities are respectable. A 158 at near 800 fps slowest velocity scenario is not gonna do anyone any good.

The full charge wadcutter is a good idea I will second. I get around 780 fps in my Smiths with 3.5 Bullseye ( as has been predicted) and a bit more velocity with the same amount of Titegroup but in no way enough to matter. I have 8 lb'ers of both but forced to choose for sensible reasons and an unexplained one I would pick Bullseye.

I would think the wadcutter seating depth would bring about better potential from Unique if run at full standard pressure. Have no experience here with BE-86 but would guess the same might apply there. Flash difference if present might dictate choices.

[runfiverun]

86 is flash suppressed.

[LouisianaMan]

Very useful testing! Would like to know chamber throats vs. groove size, as well as barrel-cylinder gap, to estimate influence of the revolver's mechanical condition on your velocities.

[Boogieman]

BE 85 in 45acp. all loads are under Alliant's max. 200gr. Lee SWC (H&G style) 1.240 oal. CCI LP 6.5gr. BE86 5" Colt 885 fps. 7.8 sd. 16 es. 3.6" Colt O.M. 798 fps. 7.2 sd. 12 es. 230 gr. Lyman RN. 452374 1.270 oal. 6 gr. BE86 CCI LP. 5" Colt 828 fps. 15.7 sd. 40 es. These were in well used cases, probably the cause of the large extreme spreads.

[johniv]

Good info sir, Thank you.

[gwpercle]

What was the accuracy like ?

[Boogieman]

5 shot groups were 2" at 50 ft. 2 handed standing out of the 5" Colt ,

[osteodoc08]

This confirms my like for BE-86

[Oyeboten]

So...how bulky is the Alliant "BE 86" Propellant?

[osteodoc08]

So...how bulky is the Alliant "BE 86" Propellant?

the 6gr of powder I use behind a 230 LRN 45 boolit gives me more
than enough fill making double charges
noticeable and not load able.

[Low Budget Shooter]

BE-86 is noticeably more dense than Unique. The max charge of BE-86 in .38 Special left plenty of room for double charge.

[Boogieman]

6 gr. of BE86 under a Lyman 230gr. RN equals factory hardball in my Colts

[Chev. William]

On a similar Note:
50 grain FMJ-RN (Rem.); GFI Ni Brass; CCI SP primer Propellant compare:

A. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains:”Bullseye”; 1188; FTF; error; 1179; 1278.
Max. = 1278; Min. = 1179; Average = 1215.0, or ~ 1215fps.

B. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains: “BE-86”: 1107; 1381; 996.2; 1147, error.
Max. = 1381; Min. =996.2; Average = 1157.8, or ~ 1158fps.
Conclusion: for the Same Charge Weight BE-86 Generates a lower Peak Pressure than Bullseye under the same conditions.

This is at about 1680 Feet above mean Sea Level and about 100 Degree F. Day using a Custom Ruger New Model Convertible Single Eight Center fire and 10-5/8" Barrel and 1.415" Cylinder length at Chamber Center Lines.

A series of Factory Loaded Privi Partisan (PPU) .25ACP; Same Conditions and firearm:
Comparison run employing “Privi Partisan” (PPU) Factory Loaded (Made in Serbia) .25ACP 50Grain FMJ-RN ammunition manufactured under CIP Regulations and Controls.

Technical Information
· Caliber: 25 ACP
· Bullet Weight: 50 Grains
· Bullet Style: Full Metal Jacket
· Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
· Muzzle Velocity: 771 fps
· Muzzle Energy: 66 ft. lbs.

Raw results(fps)
874.8; 771.8; 788.3; 913.1; 711.7; 725.1;778.3; 733.7;
742.3; 791.8; 706.4; 618.0; 691.1; 733.2; 745.7.
Max. = 913.1; Min. = 618.0; Average = 755.02, or ~755fps.

755/771 = 97.9% of stated Factory Performance (out of a 2” test Barrel) when fired from a Revolver with a 10-58” barrel. (-2.1% From the Factory Spec.)

Another Round I fired had 3.0 grains of BE-86 behind a 63 grain Lead FP bullet (no velocity data) gave a more robust Report and Muzzle rise was about twice that of the Factory loads.
Accuracy is subjective but it seemed to hit in the same point of Impact area as the Factory loads.
Not enough fired to establish a group size nor center for this load. This Charge appeared to be either 100% fil or a slightly compressed Load. Separately, a 0.3cc Lee dipper appears to hold 3.0 grains of BE-86 as checked on a Beam Type scale.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[35remington]

I think somebody's chronograph is on the fritz.

[fecmech]

So...how bulky is the Alliant "BE 86" Propellant?
Appears identical to Power pistol as are the velocities in my .38 rifles and pistols. The bushings on my CH Auto Champ throw identical charges of BE86 and PP. I think BE86 is flash suppressed PP.

[Low Budget Shooter]

fecmech, that sounds right. Why, then, do you think, does Alliant publish lower charges of BE-86 than of PP?

[Chev. William]

I think somebody's chronograph is on the fritz.

Whose?

[35remington]

380+ fps spreads with weighed charges of powder certainly make that apparent.