Let's talk....LUGERS!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

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I bought this one when I was 16. You could do that back then. The exterior finish is pretty worn and there are smooth spots on the walnut grips, but it was always well cared for and looks just the way it did when it became the 2nd pistol I owned. No exterior or internal rust, good bore. One of its former owners added an unusual front sight which is a big improvement over the issue sight. It's been stored away for years and hasn't seen the light of day except for maintenance every couple of years. I don't know why, but lately I've gotten a bit lonely for it and thought I might shoot it. I dug it out of the vault and then realized that I only have the one magazine for it. Have you seen what good condition original mags sell for? Ghastly! So I checked around for what might be available and found that Mec-Gar makes the one shown on the right. I purchased it from Midway USA and it seems to be stainless. I'm not too happy about the base pad, follower, and loading button seeming to be something akin to plastic, so I'll have to see how it holds up. The original aluminum mag says: Haenel Schmeisser Patent. How cool is that? Anyway, the price on the Mec-Gar mag wasn't that bad, so I ordered two more. This P-08 is a DWM made in 1916. Man--if it could talk! Made during WW I, and might have been brought home to the US at the end of the Great War, but might have stayed "over there" and been brought to the US after WW II. I acquired it in 1959. Who brought it home, what were the circumstances of it's acquisition...we'll never know. As time went by I acquired six more of these jewels, four more 9's and two .30s. If this thread generates enough interest I'll try to add some more photos of the remaining pistols.
All of mine are pretty much in this configuration. I always admired the naval and artillery models, but they were always pretty expensive and seemed somewhat impractical to pack around. Oh--the ammunition in the Mec-Gar mag is Remington 124 gr. Golden Saber that I borrowed from a more modern pistol. It eyeballed as being too long, but I was pleasantly surprised when it fit right into the magazine and the top round fed into the chamber without a hitch. The box doesn't say +P, but I'll probably find some standard velocity hardball when I take it to the range. What's in your safe?

[WebMonkey]

Sweet!

[Thumbcocker]

Boolits?

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have loved the Luger pistol since I was a boy during WWII and saw them in all the spy movies being made at the time. during THE 1950s Lugers became very cheap, as did all pistols. A Colt 1911 was less than a "C" note. A run of the mill Luger in excellent condition was less than $40 while an Artillery would set you back $69. My first Luger was a Simson & Son bought in 1959 for $42 in a sporting goods store. I took the Luger to Missouri on a vacation trip. I, along with my father and brother were shooting the pistol in one of the abandoned limestone quarries that are found around Cape Girardeau. While the pistol was accurate, it frequently jammed. I was shooting current American ammo. I became furious with the weapon and traded it off while still in Missouri. About two weeks after we returned to California I was reading a gun magazine and an article stated that American ammo was loaded down and was too week to properly function the stiff lock work of the Luger. That made me sick to my stomach. I find it hard to believe the prices that Lugers are bringing today. They are beginning to rival old Colt SAs in price. I think I still have some of the old magazines from the 1950s showing ads from Ye Old Hunter in Alexander, Va. selling Lugers at the aforementioned prices.

[dubber123]

Mine was a freebie totally disassembled in a cigar box. Those are fun to put back together with no instructions.. ;) I also got to see what happens when the sear spring is bent incorrectly. The cyclic rate is surprisingly high :)

[Dutchman]

Bought at Southern Ohio Guns in about 1998. No magazine, broken VOPO plastic grips.
Bore has some pitting. Installed Vintage Industries plastic black grip panels and two
new magazines: Triple K and Meggar. Both function perfect. Mostly matching. Trigger
and extractor still strawed.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,sbgbdgtttrbfgdkxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/sqktwdfrfxrdgsqskwd/4/28344/10914174/DSCF0008-vi.jpg

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,sbgbdgttddrsdrgxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/gkbrfgwkxrgfdwwqgg/4/28344/10914174/DSCF0009-vi.jpg


Hole at bottom right of photo... Little .052" pin was broken. What it did was retail the middle
toggle. At some time it had become dislodged and smacked the frame putting a ding in the
frame. I made a new pin and stoned out the dinged frame. Shoots like a bat outta H*LL.
Only negative is the magazine runs out of ammo too soon. Truly one of the great pistols made
by man. This old boy will always be desirable because its a *shooter* and not a pristine
safe queen. True, lousy sights but a lot of fun to shoot.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,sbgbdgttwddgrqdxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/sttgfqdbtxbkkwskfb/4/28344/10914174/DSCF0002-vi.jpg

[Expat74]

Nice ones gentlemen.. mine's from 1918/1920. So-called double-date. An Erfurt Luger. Unfortunately, the unit markings have been eliminated.. guess it could tell a story too. I'm using Mecgar mags for range time, and keep the original aside. Mecgar works great. AFAIK the original weight bullet was 115grs, TC, however boolits from RCBS 09-124-CN work great. Not so sure about the Golden Sabers ;)

Funny, a lot of the WWI issues have the grip machined for the shoulder stock attachment, even the "normal" ones. A lot, not all, some had it ground off after the war.

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[rintinglen]

Mine looks very much like the Dutchman's, save that mine is a 1938 Mauser. I was told that Century Arms brought it in from Estonia, when I bought it, but I have no way of knowing for sures. I have several of the Meg-car mags and have had it out quite a few times. Mine is all matching, save for the extractor.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Mine is a `39 made DWM with matching holster number with both mags and take down tool. My brother sent it home a piece at a time to our Dad, it was re-assembled after brother came home from Europe. Still have the original ammo that was in both mags. Hasn`t been fired since late 1960`s with Remington ammo and it didn`t like to function well with that stuff, not hot enough load I`m told. Brother said guys in his tank company would cut the top flap off a luger holster and wrap a G.I. hankerchief over the grip for easier fast getting at. They also found out that Lugers don`t take kindly to dust and grit for functioning. On the troop ship coming home he saw lots of Lugers changing hands as the G.I.`s played cards and the pistols took the place of money for broke soliders. He said at wars end in small streams with foot bridges over them the waters would be almost damned back with all the SS gear thrown off the bridges, which was lots of firearms and uniform gear.Robert

[Char-Gar]

I got my first Luger at age 12. I was taken off a German officer by my Uncle who was with Patton's 3rd. Army. It was a BYF 42 (Black Widow) pistol. When I was 25, I foolishly sold it and regretted it ever thereafter.

About 15 years ago a retired soldier gave me the one he brought back from WWII. This one won't go anywhere. It is a DWM 1913 and all number match. It is in good condition and shoots like a house-a-fire.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Wonderful pistols, all. Thank you all for sharing them with us. That's a really great feature of Lugers, so many come with a capture or "brought it home" story. Char-Gar, I see that yours has the stock lug removed. Interesting because so does the one pictured below. It is my understanding that Lugers without the stock lug were police issue between the World Wars in the Weimar Republic era when the Germans were forbidden to have pistols with shoulder stocks by the Treaty of Versailles. There may or may not be validity to this, as obviously the German Army retained them with the lug intact. But, on the other hand, once Hitler came into power the conditions of the Treaty were largely ignored and new production continued to have the lugs...so I don't know. This one is a DWM manufactured in 1911, and was made without a device to hold the toggle open after the last shot. It had an interesting history, because in addition to possible police use it has this marking on the front of the grip frame: B.2.T.S.2.62. I was told that indicates issue to a Hospital Train. Somewhere along the line it got a so-so reblue job, but some of the pits are visible beneath the finish. The magazine is also of interest as it is apparently a WW II vintage wartime production with an eagle/37 inspection mark, FXC (maybe FXO) maker's mark, and has a much simplified base, plastic instead of wood or aluminum, and looks a little odd when compared to the usual magazine when seated. I acquired it around 1980 from a fellow gunnut who had found something else he liked better, which was not an uncommon situation for him, and it's the one I've shot the most. The bore is good but shows some wear. It's still quite accurate and the gun never jams.


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These photos should get larger if you click on them.

[Plastikosmd]

ooo nice, my favorite since I was a kid. I leaned toward the artillery. Here are my 3.

my numbers matching and stock matching, mag matchinng along with my number match/nonmatch stock and magazine and aftermarket leather (shooter)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/luger/f39dce5f99b9822edf619246b9e6a506_zps14698dea.png
then my customized one built by Dewey (of dewey cleaning rods etc) Great shooter, note the rear site on the toggle, a bunch was done even trigger work on a luger!

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/luger/44e3305cfe7aa4d01e0720230d278fb3.jpg_zpsqgx7ctrt.p ng
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/luger/23a4a4ab8e69a09d9cf8a891fd5dcee7.jpg_zpsyxqvvcq5.p ng
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/luger/2015-10-03%2014.24.45_zpsxw7saqgf.jpg

[Char-Gar]

Der Geb....I drug my Luger out of the safe and took a good look at it with a strong life and a magnifying glass. I can see no signs of a lug ever having been there, nor any kind of refinish.

[Drm50]

My dad got a Artillery model for partial payment on wiring a house in 1956. Over the years he
made some astounding shots with it. He never shot anything but Winchester ammo in it, and
had no jam problems. The weirdest Luger story I have took place in Vietnam, a buddy of mine
got a 6" Portugese Lugar off a dead gook, guy had no magazine or ammo on him. Grips were
gone also, frame wrapped with tape. Best we cold figure he was using it as single shot, the shape
it was in a magazine wouldn't have helped.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Der Geb....I drug my Luger out of the safe and took a good look at it with a strong life and a magnifying glass. I can see no signs of a lug ever having been there, nor any kind of refinish.

I would have to say the say the same thing about mine--except like I said it has been refinished. But it sure looks like it was made without a lug. I figure if this thread goes on long enough we'll get a real expert to chime in with some answers.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Plastikosmd--those are sooooo nice! The artilleries look like they left the factory last week. And your custom pistol is truly a thing of beauty. Bet it really shoots great.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

My dad got a Artillery model for partial payment on wiring a house in 1956. Over the years he
made some astounding shots with it. He never shot anything but Winchester ammo in it, and
had no jam problems. The weirdest Luger story I have took place in Vietnam, a buddy of mine
got a 6" Portugese Lugar off a dead gook, guy had no magazine or ammo on him. Grips were
gone also, frame wrapped with tape. Best we cold figure he was using it as single shot, the shape
it was in a magazine wouldn't have helped.

Thanks for this story. I think I might shed some light on it, or give you a "maybe" for how that came to be. The one thing that I don't understand is why it would be a Portuguese variation, but in WW II the Germans were getting any serviceable pistols they could from many sources, and since the Luger was one of their official pistols they might have gotten some from Portugal. Well, then, here's a tale for you. When I was in gunsmithing school one of my fellow students was a retired Green Beret who had served a couple of tours in Viet Nam. He had a war trophy, which was an 8mm K98k rifle with a completely shot out bore. He told me a story about how late every afternoon a VC would take a shot at their compound and how they could hear the bullet tumbling as it went past. Although the guy never hit anyone they figured that someday he might get lucky, so they set up several ambushes on the hillside where the shots originated and took the guy out. He was an old man. So my friend became curious as to how a Nazi-marked K98k ended up in Viet Nam, like your Luger did, and after some research found out that at the end of WW II several Waffen SS units surrendered to the French. The French threatened to try them all as war criminals, but offered them a way out if they would enlist in the Foreign Legion for what had been Indo China. Many of these soldiers couldn't go home again for various reasons. Some of them had lost their entire families and homes in the Allied bombing campaign, and some of them were from what rapidly became East Germany and would be sent off to prison camps in Siberia by the Soviets. So some units enlisted in the Legion en masse and, retaining all of their German issued weapons and equipment, off they went to the jungle. Most never returned, and their weapons that were picked up by the Viet Minh continued in use, first against the French and later against the Americans. I have looked into this story, and it seems to be true. As for the K98k, my classmate had intended to re-barrel it and turn it into a hunting rifle, but hit a spot where he needed to raise some money and sold it to another student. Had I known that he was selling it I would have bought it and kept it as it was, and had him write a statement to keep with the rifle as to how he obtained it. So much history gets lost........

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Can you imagine the number of Luger and Walther pistols that fell into Russian hands at Stalingrad alone? It would be great to walk thru some of their old arsenals. When the Swiss made their version of the Luger they left off the stock lug as well and made the grip frame straight in the front without the swell at the bottom.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've never claimed to be a Luger expert, just picked up a thing or two here and there because I had acquired some and was curious about their history. I do remember that although there are many variations, just about the rarest of the rare is the Russian model. The Czar purchased some, and they are marked with crossed Mosin-Nagant rifles on the top. When Kruschev visited the U.S. his wristwatch broke and it was repaired for him by a U.S. watchmaker who happened to be an avid gun collector. Kruschev was grateful and asked how he could repay him. The watchmaker asked him to send him a Russian Luger pistol. Sure enough, when Kruschev returned to the Soviet Union he sent one. Apparently they had to scour the arsenals to find it, and then nicely reblued it. There was an article about the incident in one of the gun magazines many years ago, and it's possible that I have it somewhere. At the time there were only two of them known to exist in western collections, so not only was it priceless, but doubly priceless because of the Kruschev association with it. It wasn't that long ago that the Russians were selling off the P-38s they captured.

[JWT]

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[Plastikosmd]

thx ger, the dewey shoots great, quite a gun
I am not a luger expert. I suspect my top gun is all original. that was a bit more pricy when I got it for all matching numbers, blue looked correct etc. the lower gun was from a gunshop. I thought it looked great but now I am not sure. the grips have clearly been cleaned. The blue doesn't look right to me now. It doesn't appear to have been polished but the blue is much "darker" or not as polished as the upper gun. Almost a cold blue look? I cant imagine there would have been a different process year to year(one is a 14 other is a 17 if I remember.) I suspect that my lower gun, even though matching, except magazine, is a bit 'gone over.' Well, who cares? For under 1k it is a great shooter

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks for this story. I think I might shed some light on it, or give you a "maybe" for how that came to be. The one thing that I don't understand is why it would be a Portuguese variation, but in WW II the Germans were getting any serviceable pistols they could from many sources, and since the Luger was one of their official pistols they might have gotten some from Portugal. Well, then, here's a tale for you. When I was in gunsmithing school one of my fellow students was a retired Green Beret who had served a couple of tours in Viet Nam. He had a war trophy, which was an 8mm K98k rifle with a completely shot out bore. He told me a story about how late every afternoon a VC would take a shot at their compound and how they could hear the bullet tumbling as it went past. Although the guy never hit anyone they figured that someday he might get lucky, so they set up several ambushes on the hillside where the shots originated and took the guy out. He was an old man. So my friend became curious as to how a Nazi-marked K98k ended up in Viet Nam, like your Luger did, and after some research found out that at the end of WW II several Waffen SS units surrendered to the French. The French threatened to try them all as war criminals, but offered them a way out if they would enlist in the Foreign Legion for what had been Indo China. Many of these soldiers couldn't go home again for various reasons. Some of them had lost their entire families and homes in the Allied bombing campaign, and some of them were from what rapidly became East Germany and would be sent off to prison camps in Siberia by the Soviets. So some units enlisted in the Legion en masse and, retaining all of their German issued weapons and equipment, off they went to the jungle. Most never returned, and their weapons that were picked up by the Viet Minh continued in use, first against the French and later against the Americans. I have looked into this story, and it seems to be true. As for the K98k, my classmate had intended to re-barrel it and turn it into a hunting rifle, but hit a spot where he needed to raise some money and sold it to another student. Had I known that he was selling it I would have bought it and kept it as it was, and had him write a statement to keep with the rifle as to how he obtained it. So much history gets lost........

I think it is more likely that the French used captured German weapons to arm pro-French militias. They did indeed recruit many former Wehrmacht soldiers, some but not all of whom were Alsatian conscripts, from territory which had been annexed by Germany from 1871 to 1919. But the Foreign Legion had a policy of excluding SS members, and checking for either the SS blood group tattoo or a scar which might conceal it. No doubt a few slipped through, but not many, and certainly not enough to supply with non-standard ammunition.

I'm no Luger expert either. My sole trophy from Bisley was for the use of a borrowed artillery Luger with shoulder stock at 300 yards, but it wasn't a hotly contested event. Jeff Cooper said the Luger gives an extremely good grip if you hold it the wrong way, but it seems fine to me, and an engineering achievement far more revolutionary than Colt's rework of its cap and ball revolvers into the SAA. Just look at what other automatic pistols were in 1900, or my example of the pistol which preceded the German P08 contract, and is basically as sophisticated as a double scale North American Arms mini-revolver:

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The rarest of the rare, and perhaps the most valuable of all modern pistols, is the .45 Luger which was made for the US military trials which led to the Colt 1911. It was larger than the standard Luger, but apparently worked well. I have read an article on its use a few years back, but although I don't believe the design was in any way inadequate, they only risked the use of reduced .45ACP loads.

Sergeant York's use of a Luger in the movie is inaccurate, and he might not have fared as well against multiple opponents with FMJ 9mm. He really used a Colt 1911, but they didn't have a blank firing attachment for one.

[opos]

In the mid 50's I worked in a gun shop in Fort Collins, Co. while going to college and picked up a really nice little .30 Luger...I wish I still had it!! The only thing I have to remember it is that I am nearly deaf..used to shoot it in a long narrow concrete hallway that was the indoor police range in the basement of the police building...I used cotton balls for ear plugs...not so good. Think the pistol set me back something like $30

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ahhh....BIS ..... poking holes in one of my favorite historical tales. Well, I hope at least that you believe my part of the story about my friend and his war trophy 98k. He was the one who was over there and who's curiosity was aroused as to why it was there in the first place. He asked around while still there and came up with the Foreign Legion connection. I looked into a bit and you are correct that the story is a wobbler between truth and fiction. BUT, with the passage of 70 years since the end of the war and the murky goings-on of that period it can not be discounted with certainty. Here are some that lend support to the tale:
Indochine: la legion des inconnus de la Wehrmacht
L'ennemi utile, Pierre Thoumelin
Indochine: l'histore meccnflue de ces Allemandes pour la France

Then, in the London Review of Books, Short Cuts, Jeremy Harding: The Last Valley (2004) Martin Windrow reckons that the Legion fielded nearly 20,000 men at peak strength in Indochina. "The belief," he writes, 'that their ranks were largely filled with German ex-Whermacht and Waffen-SS veterans recruited straight from French prison camps with few questions asked lent them a sinister glamour in the eyes of journalist. That belief was largely justified, he feels, until around 1950. By the time of the fall of Dien Bien Phu in 1954 'it was only among senior NCOs that Whermacht veterans were found in any concentrated numbers.'

Certainly something was going on there, but not worthy of argument. I wasn't there.

You appear to have a primo example of an 1879 Ordonnanzrevolver, 10.6x25mmR. From the very few that come up on the auction sites I'd say it's worth the value of a good Luger, and harder to find. Very nice indeed.

Yes, the US Army Trials Lugers with the American Eagle emblem on the receiver ring are scarce and valuable, but they are around and I've actually held one. Not to be confused with those imported by A.F. Stoeger Co. which had the emblem stamped on them, which are also valuable but much less so than the originals, or the later imports made by Mauser with the emblem that were beautiful guns in every way with a high polish blue finish. But, I think that the Russian Lugers are still scarcer, perhaps originally produced in a larger number but with a much higher attrition rate and very few to be found outside Russia.

Well, here's my offering for today. Soon I'll run out of pistols and photos to post in this thread. Opos, I do have two very nice .30 Lugers, but they have the same barrel length as my other pistols, and except for the bore being smaller, look the same as well. The only unusual feature of one of them is that it is serial no. 12. Uncommon to find one or two digit serial number Lugers, but as it was pointed out to me once they were numbered in series starting with a0001 through a9999 and then starting over again with b0001, etc., and production went through the entire alphabet at least twice, so there are in theory 50 or 60 number 12s out there somewhere. Not so easy to find ammo for them anymore. As for the hearing...
huh?

O.K.--here are today's photos and my hopefully entertaining story of how I acquired them:

174329174330174331174332

Back around 1980 I found myself in possession of an overtime check in the amount of $350. I stopped into a local auto parts store to buy some spark plugs, etc. for a tune-up and had a conversation with the owner who was fellow shooter and with whom I used to shoot in PPC matches. He knew that I was a haphazard collector and that I had a couple of Lugers, so he pulled the top one in the photos, an S/42, out from under the counter and asked if I was interested in buying it. It was a bit rusty and pitted here and there and of a condition that normally I would have walked away from, but I didn't have an S/42 and this one had a good bore, so I let him talk me into it for $125. He cashed my check and handed me the Luger, the tune-up parts, and then said, "How would you like to buy another one? I think I can get you another for the same price." I was a bit dubious, but he told me to stop and "see the Portugee." The Portugee was a nice fellow who had originally owned the store and for whom the fellow I had just done business with had been an employee and who subsequently purchased the business. I'd had met him a couple of times when he was still "the boss", and he lived almost exactly half-way between the store and my house, and since I was on the way home I stopped by to see what he had. Although retired from the parts business he still worked on cars as a hobby in his garage, and that's where I found him, greasy hands and coveralls. He went to a workbench drawer and pulled out a Luger, the bottom one in the photos, which was wrapped in a greasy shop rag. Obviously his former employee had called and alerted him to my arrival, as he announced the asking price to be $125. If anything this one was is worse condition than the S/42. It was (is) an Erfurt with a left grip panel that was completely cracked in half, very little finish remain and some surface pitting, but had the mandatory good bore. I pointed out that I'd have to buy a new pair of grips, so he settled out for $100. I actually got home with a few dollars left. A couple of years later I went off to gunsmithing school, leaving my family at home, and occupied most of my evenings after school working on what projects I could without the school's machinery. I had taken the two Lugers in question along, and spent many an hour preparing them for rebluing by using progressively finer grits of w&d sandpaper and small wooden blocks of various shapes. I probably put in almost a month of evenings on each pistol, and when I finished there wasn't a tooling mark or pit to be found. All of the corners remained sharp, the lettering clearly visible, etc. All in all, some of the best work I ever did. The photos don't really do them justice. Since it's hard for me to get rid of things in which I've invested a part of myself I still have them and they will likely be in my estate. So, since I worked so hard on them, some 35 years ago, please don't give me the old "you greatly reduced their value by refinishing them and destroyed history" lecture! Believe me, I did nothing but improve them.

[Plastikosmd]

They look great to me

[Hardcast416taylor]

Back in the late `70`s a shooting buddy of mine worked the sporting section of his family owned Gamble`s store. An elderly lady came in one day and knowing that my buddy was a shooter offered to sell him her late Husbands war bring back pistol. She had a paper shopping bag that she placed on his store counter. He opened it and began bringing item after item out and spread out on the counter. It was a .30 luger with matching numbered holster with all clips and cleaning tools and a loading tool. He said there was 6 boxes of commercial ammo as well as 2 packages of German war ammo. She was very firm about what she wanted for this stuff, $150! He convinced her to accept $200 from him, she felt guilty for taking the extra $50.Robert

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ahhh....BIS ..... poking holes in one of my favorite historical tales. Well, I hope at least that you believe my part of the story about my friend and his war trophy 98k. He was the one who was over there and who's curiosity was aroused as to why it was there in the first place. He asked around while still there and came up with the Foreign Legion connection. I looked into a bit and you are correct that the story is a wobbler between truth and fiction. BUT, with the passage of 70 years since the end of the war and the murky goings-on of that period it can not be discounted with certainty. Here are some that lend support to the tale:
Indochine: la legion des inconnus de la Wehrmacht
L'ennemi utile, Pierre Thoumelin
Indochine: l'histore meccnflue de ces Allemandes pour la France

Then, in the London Review of Books, Short Cuts, Jeremy Harding: The Last Valley (2004) Martin Windrow reckons that the Legion fielded nearly 20,000 men at peak strength in Indochina. "The belief," he writes, 'that their ranks were largely filled with German ex-Whermacht and Waffen-SS veterans recruited straight from French prison camps with few questions asked lent them a sinister glamour in the eyes of journalist. That belief was largely justified, he feels, until around 1950. By the time of the fall of Dien Bien Phu in 1954 'it was only among senior NCOs that Whermacht veterans were found in any concentrated numbers.'

Certainly something was going on there, but not worthy of argument. I wasn't there.

You appear to have a primo example of an 1879 Ordonnanzrevolver, 10.6x25mmR. From the very few that come up on the auction sites I'd say it's worth the value of a good Luger, and harder to find. Very nice indeed.

Yes, the US Army Trials Lugers with the American Eagle emblem on the receiver ring are scarce and valuable, but they are around and I've actually held one. Not to be confused with those imported by A.F. Stoeger Co. which had the emblem stamped on them, which are also valuable but much less so than the originals, or the later imports made by Mauser with the emblem that were beautiful guns in every way with a high polish blue finish. But, I think that the Russian Lugers are still scarcer, perhaps originally produced in a larger number but with a much higher attrition rate and very few to be found outside Russia.

Well, here's my offering for today. Soon I'll run out of pistols and photos to post in this thread. Opos, I do have two very nice .30 Lugers, but they have the same barrel length as my other pistols, and except for the bore being smaller, look the same as well. The only unusual feature of one of them is that it is serial no. 12. Uncommon to find one or two digit serial number Lugers, but as it was pointed out to me once they were numbered in series starting with a0001 through a9999 and then starting over again with b0001, etc., and production went through the entire alphabet at least twice, so there are in theory 50 or 60 number 12s out there somewhere. Not so easy to find ammo for them anymore. As for the hearing...
huh?

O.K.--here are today's photos and my hopefully entertaining story of how I acquired them:

174329174330174331174332

Back around 1980 I found myself in possession of an overtime check in the amount of $350. I stopped into a local auto parts store to buy some spark plugs, etc. for a tune-up and had a conversation with the owner who was fellow shooter and with whom I used to shoot in PPC matches. He knew that I was a haphazard collector and that I had a couple of Lugers, so he pulled the top one in the photos, an S/42, out from under the counter and asked if I was interested in buying it. It was a bit rusty and pitted here and there and of a condition that normally I would have walked away from, but I didn't have an S/42 and this one had a good bore, so I let him talk me into it for $125. He cashed my check and handed me the Luger, the tune-up parts, and then said, "How would you like to buy another one? I think I can get you another for the same price." I was a bit dubious, but he told me to stop and "see the Portugee." The Portugee was a nice fellow who had originally owned the store and for whom the fellow I had just done business with had been an employee and who subsequently purchased the business. I'd had met him a couple of times when he was still "the boss", and he lived almost exactly half-way between the store and my house, and since I was on the way home I stopped by to see what he had. Although retired from the parts business he still worked on cars as a hobby in his garage, and that's where I found him, greasy hands and coveralls. He went to a workbench drawer and pulled out a Luger, the bottom one in the photos, which was wrapped in a greasy shop rag. Obviously his former employee had called and alerted him to my arrival, as he announced the asking price to be $125. If anything this one was is worse condition than the S/42. It was (is) an Erfurt with a left grip panel that was completely cracked in half, very little finish remain and some surface pitting, but had the mandatory good bore. I pointed out that I'd have to buy a new pair of grips, so he settled out for $100. I actually got home with a few dollars left. A couple of years later I went off to gunsmithing school, leaving my family at home, and occupied most of my evenings after school working on what projects I could without the school's machinery. I had taken the two Lugers in question along, and spent many an hour preparing them for rebluing by using progressively finer grits of w&d sandpaper and small wooden blocks of various shapes. I probably put in almost a month of evenings on each pistol, and when I finished there wasn't a tooling mark or pit to be found. All of the corners remained sharp, the lettering clearly visible, etc. All in all, some of the best work I ever did. The photos don't really do them justice. Since it's hard for me to get rid of things in which I've invested a part of myself I still have them and they will likely be in my estate. So, since I worked so hard on them, some 35 years ago, please don't give me the old "you greatly reduced their value by refinishing them and destroyed history" lecture! Believe me, I did nothing but improve them.


Well, I hope I left a sound structure joining up the holes, for I believe the bit about him finding a Mauser that has been and has seen. A lot of them have, of course, but that is one you know about.

What's a good Luger? My German ordnance revolver should be cheaper than any except extremely tired or mixed-parts Lugers, for besides collector value, the Luger is notoriously a pistol that can leave you chasing hard to solve function failures in such cases.

Former non-Alsatian Wehrmacht soldiers undoubtedly were common in the Legion, which in the early years of the century had been regarded by the French as "mostly German", and therefore a logical candidate for drawing the short straw in imperial conflicts. Nowadays they have a policy of not allowing any nationality to become predominant.

Maurice Papon, the Paris police chief, ordered a massacre of peaceful Algerian demonstrators in Paris in 1961, which even now constitutes the majority of those massacred there since the Liberation. Even worse, he fooled General de Gaulle, who for all his faults wouldn't have countenanced that sort of thing, into giving him the Legion of Honour. Much later he was found to have collaborated with the Nazis in the deportation of Jews and "dejudaising" of assets. So yes, it is possible that there was a route into the Legion for some SS fugitives. But I am sure they were never numerous.

[bob208]

I remember in the mid 60's seeing them for sale like $50-69 at Klein's. I tried to talk my father into letting me get some. but his answer was probably wore out junk.

I do have one a Finn. contract. it was .30 when new but now 9mm rebarreled by tikka.

[Thumbcocker]

$50 to $69 in the 60"s was a weeks paycheck for some folks.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

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Those are nice ones, JWT. What's the story on the 2nd one? Are the grips black plastic? Is it a VOPO Luger?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

$50 to $69 in the 60"s was a weeks paycheck for some folks.

You can say that again! My first regular civilian job in 1964 paid $1.50 per hour X 40 hr. = $60 less deductions was $40 take home pay.
The Luger in my first post at the start of this thread cost me $65 in 1958. I know that seems high for the times, but at that particular time they had suddenly become scarce. I visited many shops and was told, "We used to have them in quantity, but I haven't seen one for a year or two." That included the San Francisco Gun Exchange, now a long gone part of history, which was a very large shop. There was a space on the wall about 4 ft. x 8 ft. that was covered with Nambu pistols, perhaps 50 of them, and a sign in the middle that said "Take Your Pick. $28." The owner told me the same thing about Lugers being scarce and indicated the Nambu display and said, "How's about one of these? They're almost the same thing." I declined the offer, and finally a dealer in Grass Valley, CA, located the one shown in the post and saved it for me, but warned me it was going to cost extra.

[gwpercle]

In 1961 my Dad felt the need for a 9mm handgun and decided to mail order an army surplus one from Klein's Sporting Goods, I tried my best to get him to order a P-08 , but he and his buddy , both WWII vet's , felt the P-38 to be superior (the P-38 was also a little cheaper) and so my words fell on deaf ears.

Well Dad is gone and I'm left with his P-38....but I still wish he had gotten the
P-08 ....it has to be the coolest looking handgun ever made!
Enjoyed the photo's guys !

Gary

[Char-Gar]

The moral to this story is, buy guns when you can. If you wait, they will cost much more and might not be available. The price that today will make you grab your chest today, twenty years from now will seem cheap. I don't have a firearm in the house I could not sell for 2 to 10 times more than I paid for it.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Agreed! Firearms have traditionally been a good investment. I recall reading an article once about how the value of a good Colt SSA, the best quality men's suit, and the price of gold have remained consistent in their value relationship among themselves for about 150 years. But, of course, today we face the ever-stronger anti-gun movement that may make owing your investment illegal. Oddly, the same may become true about the ownership of gold. But it will be o.k. to be well dressed.........

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Gary--
Hold on to that thought about P-38s, because I'm going to start a thread on them soon. That gives you time to take a photo of yours. Look for it in a couple of days.
DG

[Combat Diver]

All great looking pistols and histories. All mine were free in either Germany or Iraq. My first I got in Germany was a all matching early 1939 dated P08 with standard 4" bbl. This pistol was passed from one team member to the next. ATF denied my Form 6 importation at the time stating "war surplus and not importable" (90') Later in Iraq had a DWM 1915 dated P08 in 05' and later a 1941 dated one in 08'. Both again with 4" bbls.

byf coded 1941 dated Luger
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P3200181_bfy_41_P08_Luger_rz.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P3200180_bfy_41_P08_Luger_rz.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P3200183_bfy_41_P08_Luger_rz.JPG


DWM 1915 dated Luger
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/P08_Luger_rz.jpg


Had a Stoeger .22LR for almost 20 years to. Got that when I was in high school in San Antonio. Always enjoyed the Luger but never had one on the other side of the Atlantic. Would like to have another and a C96 again.



CD

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Wow.. that's the story of not one, but two great personal tragedies! Things sure change. Back in the early 60s when I rotated home for discharge I shipped one Luger and one P-38 home in my hold baggage. I checked them out of the arms room, had to stop by the MPs office and they checked them off their list, packed them, shipped them, and they showed up at my house in the States about 30 days later. Couldn't you bring yours home as captured war trophies--or don't they even do that anymore? I think half the guys I know that were in Viet Nam brought home a Tokarev pistol or SKS rifle. Seems to be less and less incentive to serve now days.

[Combat Diver]

VietNam was the last time you could bring something back. Zero from Iraq and only black powder or pre 1898 from Afghanistan. Leaving Iraq next month after 2 yrs, home for couple of weeks and then another year in Astan. Gotta love retirement!


CD

[Thumbcocker]

We had a female intern in our office one summer who is an Iraq veteran. She was operating the M2 on a vehicle in a convoy that got hit and when she returner fire got some nice secondary explosions. She is a statuesque blond and was written up in Stars ad Stripes. She wanted to bring back a .50 cal. casing for a souvenir but was refused. Rules suck sometimes.

[JWT]

Those are nice ones, JWT. What's the story on the 2nd one? Are the grips black plastic? Is it a VOPO Luger?

The Artillery is a 1917 DMW in 99+% condition all matched with holster and snail drum magazine. I bought this one from Rock Island Auctions back before I got married. I figured that one day I could sell it and pay for a cape buffalo hunt. With the latest ant-hunter stupidity in Africa I think I will just hold on to it.


The Army model is a 1941 Mauser byf. This is my shooter (toggle pin number is a mismatch). The byf's were made for the SS. The toggle is marked byf and the grips are black bakelite.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ahhh...well, I learned something there. I brought home a VOPO Luger with black bakelite/plastic grips that looked much like yours, but they had the German roundel (bullseye) on them. I thought they were ugly and best replaced with walnut, and I gave the originals to a fellow who was going into the grip making business as a pattern. That may have been a mistake, although I like the current appearance of the pistol better. The reason that I asked is Dutchman's Luger has the same grips as yours, and his is a VOPO Luger.

[JWT]

Before I was married I was into collecting Lugers as well as quite a few specialist books on them. Since I have been married, Luger collecting has not fit in the budget.

[Speedo66]

I had an S-42 marked BYF with a 4 digit serial number. All # matching parts except for the magazine, which had German markings on it, with an alum. base. Except for some very slight holster wear at the very tip of the barrel on either side, the original finish was exceptional. Even had Geco '42 marked ammo with it.

Wonder what it would be worth today?

[Baja_Traveler]

I always wanted one but could never stand to pay the high prices being asked for them. Bummer is, my dad said he brought a whole footlocker full of them home from the war - and not just ordinary run of the mill Lugers, but only the best picked from the pile of confiscated arms. After WWII they were dime a dozen, and he ended up giving all of them away...

[bob208]

one time we were in the navy arms where house in West Virginia. I saw a stack of baskets with unfinished luger frames in them must have been a thousand or more. I wonder what ever happened to them.

[Texas by God]

I traded a Remington XP100 7mmBR even for a 1923Commercial Loaded/Safe .30 cal with 3-3/4" barrel, stock lug, and a broken takedown lever. My oh my I wish I still had both! Regrets from the 80's came back to haunt me....Best,Thomas.