help! ...need parts for s&w 4th model top break circa 1900+

[mozeppa]

uncle gives me a old 38 top break....wants to get it shooting again.
too much wrong with it.
but i'd like giving it back in one piece.

this appears to be a trigger return spring....its "V" shaped and has a notch in one leg of the "V" (see pix)
i think it goes back into the are that the screw driver is pointing to....and in the orientation in the picture.

do you have to take the trigger out and compress the spring while trying to line up the trigger pin at the same time?
is there an easier way?

any tricks to this problem?

[mozeppa]

p.s. it's a turn of the century s&w model 4 break top double action.

in .38 S&W

[mozeppa]

Wow!

41,606 members.....this forum has!
100+ views this thread has had.
no one has an idea?

no matter ....sit and studied the mechanics of the piece ....and used mechanical logic.

and fixed it myself!

i must be on my 4th or 5th day of my 3 day deodorant .....because this thread musta stunk to to high heaven for any gunsmiths to reply
be they pro's or shade tree smiths.

[Tackleberry41]

You may be on alot of ignore lists. I have asked some questions before and would think I was the only one on earth who has ever thought of it. But if your thought to be a 'liberal' of any kind, your ignored.

[Tackleberry41]

I have a modern copy of that gun, and have taken it apart. Only issue I ever had was trying to get that spring for the latch in place. They must have a special tool at the factory to make it easier.

[mozeppa]

nah...not a lib... i am a conservative
i seldom visit the pit
never reply to political fights.
i think hillary should be tried as a traitor.


only problem i had was with a guy ("A") who had somebody else's (guy "b") boolits....guy "b" was supposed to powdercoat them for guy "a" ...but didn't....much time passed and he wanted his boolits back .....so i said "simple... give him his boolits back" (but had every excuse not to do it right away......car needs gas, have to wax my cat, refrigerator was running , had to catch it.)....so again i said "just give him his boolits back"

he went ballistic !....said i was calling him a thief, reported me, called me names in a P.M....then put me on "ignore list"

i have more fun here and seldom ever rub anyone wrong. not my nature.

mike

[Virginia John]

I have run into that spring arrangement before but my memory is so weak it is pathetic. From what little I can recall (obviously I don't have that gun any more or I would take it apart for you) that spring goes where you indicated. You might find that there is a little shelf that it rides in and it might even go in the opposite direction. Wish I could help you more. If I had it in front of me, I'd figure it out. Good luck.

[rintinglen]

I suspect that not many people have much interest in the old break-tops and even fewer have any knowledge about them. I have a fairly wide range of handguns in my collection, yet I only have one break top, and it is not a Smith and Wesson. I could have helped out if you had asked for advice on a colt or a S&W hand ejector, but when it comes to antique break tops, I couldn't offer anything helpful, not out of meanness, malice or prejudice, but simple ignorance--as the kids say--"I got nothing."

[Plate plinker]

Glad you figured it out as I KNOW NOTHING.

[mozeppa]

it's all good ...i got it.

[Tackleberry41]

When it comes to a new gun that I have no real idea how they work inside. I was a semi auto guy for a long time so didnt really own any wheel guns. And what I do have is a mix, so had to learn to mess with them. Never had one I took apart and couldnt get back together. Get out my cell phone take pics as I go along if need be. But usually even something hard you go 'oh duh I had it backwards or whatever'.

I took my break top apart as it just was not done properly from the factory, would think for the cost they would do it right. The usual thing, get rid of some burrs, polish some stuff, shoots fine now. I just wonder if the parts are really that different between a new one and old one.

[mozeppa]

hey tack,

i looked at many pix of revolvers in various stages of break down seems like everyone tried to reinvent the wheel.

for me it took quite a while drawing the pieces on paper and just plain study of the parts to figure out how the things work together.

in the end ...i got the clock back together , it bongs every quarter hour, chimes every hour and keeps time somewhat.
in a pinch i'd hate to have to rely on it.

[dubber123]

I completely disassembled mine to reblue it. I have effectively blocked all memories of that aggravating incident. :)

[Freischütz]

You'll get good advice at http://smith-wessonforum.com

[KCSO]

The Gunsmithing section might have gotten you a quicker reply as I just happened to see this now. This is one of those jobs that we get the big bucks for... I use a vise and a pin punch and press the spring and tigger guard in as a unit and slip the pin punch into the hole to hold everything with my third hand. It's just a tricky job you eventually get a feel for.

Now if that is a replacement spring I hope it isn't as thick and heavy as most as I usually have to draw file them to get them to the right spring tension.

[quail4jake]

I feel your pain, brother! I'm a big fan of antique S&Ws, especially breaktops, and they are like working on a watch. If I have the misfortune of having to disassemble one I make jigs and use Kocher clamps to hold springs in alignment to drive pins back in etc. Good advice...wear safety goggles! They are notorious for shooting springs out in your face. BTW, did you discover yet that some of the pins are tapered and only drive out in one direction? Not all, only some models...we just have to guess which ones!

[Tackleberry41]

Guess I was lucky, mine did not seem that hard to take apart and put back together, except for the spring for the latch.