38 Short Colt vs. 9mm Federal Rimmed. Anyone knows specs and difference?

[AJG]

Hi ya all;

38 Short Colt vs. 9mm Federal Rimmed. Anyone knows specs and difference?

I am reloading now regularly 9mm Federal Rimmed for my SAA 357 Magnum Revolver. I savage shotshells for powder and lead for reloading because here in Southamerica we can not get powder nor bullet molds. As it seems swaging Equipment is allowed.

So I can not find any specs on 9mm Federal Rimmed nor 38 Short Colt since both calibers do not Show up in any modern reloading Manual nor in the old ones.
Specially both max pressures in PSI I am interested in tho know and OAL and case length as well as bullet Diameter and if the case is tapered or straight wall and the Diameter of the case.

I ordered an set of Lee 38 short and Long Cold 3 die set for reloading These homemade 9mm Federal Rimmed for my Revolver.

As well specify what I can do if I go into swaging 9mm and 38 bullets from wheelweights. Equipment, dies, if it will work or not, etc.

[victorfox]

No way they are very different. The first if I recall is a black powder caliber and as such very low in pressure and in its case lacks power.. What you're trying to load exceed its specifications (I believe it runs around 13000psi max).

Just check this site.

www.castpics.net


I think the Ideal handbook has loads for this caliber. Will check my materials tomorrow and tell you what I have.
But no again, they are very different. But there's no restriction in using the dies I think, just shoot what you load hotter in your 357 and pay attention to pressure signs. Start low and work up...

[smkummer]

If you can come across and empty 38 S&W brass, it should be able to size for your needs. At one time, it was found it would chamber and fire in a 9mm federal. The problem being that the 9mm federal would also chamber in a 38 s&W.

[AJG]

smkummer,

I am located in Southamerica.

Just want to know specs for 9mm Federal Rimmed since for 38 Short Colt specs are more readily availlable. For 9mm Federal Rimmed I can nowhere find specs on the Internet.

[Multigunner]

38 Short Colt Dimensions

Bullet diameter
.375 for original heeled bullets, .358 for some modern loads

Neck diameter
.379 in (9.6 mm)

Base diameter
.379 in (9.6 mm)

Rim diameter
.445 in (11.3 mm)

Rim thickness
.060 in (1.5 mm)

Case length
.765 in (19.4 mm )


9mm Federal rimmed cartridge dimensions

Bullet diameter
9.02mm (.355")

Case Length
19.15mm (.754")

Rim diameter
11.02mm (.434")

Base diameter
9.93mm (.391")

Neck diameter
9.65mm (.380")

Cartridge Overall Length (COAL)
29.69mm (1.169")

[dannyd]

I shoot 38 short colt. Trim 38 special cases to .750. HP-38 2.6 and 125 grain cast bullet. Never waste a cracked 357 or 38 special case that way.

[AJG]

Thank You,

So 9mm Federal Rimmed is NOT am straight wall case. But 38 short Colt yes.

So I make and reload a mix of 9mm Federal Rimmed and 38 short Colt.
My case and cartridge is then an powered up (+P+) 38 Short Colt since the case is an cut down 357 mag case to 19mm length and loaded with an 9mm 115 grain FMJ bullet.
Today I got an Group of about 2.5" from about 25 Yards. But this cartridge loaded with 4.3 grains of type Unique/Universal has more power than a regular 9mm Luger.

[hollywood63]

I used38 S&W cases with a LFN 130 gr boolit with 3.8 gr of CFE and a OAL of 1.025. Know here is my question without meaning to hijack the OP. But I have a Taurus 905 that I'm going to try these on. With that said I started the OAL at 1.125 per the manual now this put the bullet way out away from the crimp groove and it wouldn't chamber. Now taking what most people say when loading for a revolver seat to the crimp groove and call it good. Now taking away that this is a 9mm but in a revolver wouldn't couldn't you do the same?

[AJG]

I do not quiet understand your question hollywood63.

With These 9mm federal Rimmed/38 Short Colt +P+ I was not particularly picky with trimm length. I actually do not have an case trimmer yet. So I measured the cases with an 9mm Luger case and marked them. Then I cut them down to "about 19mm length" with an electric (Black and Decker) cutter. After that I realised the 9mm expanding die will roll over the case mouth of those cases who are longer than 19mm and then I cut them down further the "rolled over part". After that all was fine besides the case mouth is not cut evenly. For an Revolver that does not matter since it headspaces on the rim.

I DO ONLY TAPER CRIMP all of my bullets. I do not roll crimp. The 9mm Federal Rimmed/38 Short Colt has an FMJ 9mm 115 grain bullet with no crimp grove. Seating depth I just took "as was/is" adjusted my 9mm Luger die set. I do not particularly care for seating depth since I found cases are shrinking over time and those factory bullets are not measuring the same length. Actually there can be a considerable difference in bullet length of those Winchester 115 grain FMJ 9mm bullets. So I stopped worrying about seating depth and Over all case and cartridge length (it just varies too much). Crimping I judge rather "by feel" as by masuring since as well that has much variables after each firing/reload so that as well varies every time. I just make sure the bullet can not be squeezed into the case and is not Spinning (that I control by Hand every time if bullet is loose). In an 357 mag These short 38 Short Colt will chamber allways (dunno which caliber is Taurus 905).
If it is too Long cut 'em down further. The important Thing is the case is about full of powder and has almost no empty airspace and the bullet is about seating rigth over the powder (that is all about physics and that gives you the pressure).
For 9mm Federal Rimmed/38 Short Colt +P+ use first die the 38 Special/357 mag decap and resize die. Second die use the 9mm Luger expanding die and third die use the 9mm Luger seating and crimping die. Or have the Lee 38 Short and Long Colt 3 die set (believe it is taper crimp).

[AJG]

Checked it up. Taurus 905 seems to be an 9mm Luger Revolver.

As I reloaded my 357 mag Revolver and cases with 9mm Luger bullets I went over max OAL by .050" at least and the cylinder turned just fine but any further it would have blocked the cylinder (OAL too Long). Just see if there is free space in the cylinder when you loaded a normal 9mm Luger round and if there is you can go as much longer as there is free room in the cylinder.
you have to judge by observing desribed above.

[dannyd]

that's all I use is a taper crimp on all my rounds

[AJG]

Sorry hollywood63. I got it.

Seems to be your Revolver has a tapered or stepped down cylinder. The 9mm Luger has to be exact the same specs as for an semi Auto pistol. Since it is headspacing as it seems on the mouth. Any longer OAL and it does not get in all the way.
Since I never experienced case stretching, but only case shortening, I never had that Problem and by my 300+ reloads now I never had an missfire or any Trouble whatsoever with 9mm Luger in my pistol.

[AJG]

Hollywood63,

I just saw a Video on Youtube.

Your revolover has a step inside the cylinder. So it headspaces on the mouth and could be the step down is tapered towards the forcing cone so if the bullet is to Long it just does not enter all. Besides that if you load 'em rigth same as semi Auto you should not have Problems whatsoever.
If the bullet is the Problem try an trucated cone instead of an Round nose.

[Earlwb]

If it helps any, the 9mm Federal Auto Rim uses the same load data that the 9x19mm Parabellum (9mm Luger) uses. it is a rimmed version of the 9mm Luger round.

The .38 Short Colt round goes way back to the early days in the 1870's when they started converting .36 cap and ball revolvers to use cartridges. Originally it used black powder. They basically figured out how much black powder the case would hold with a heeled conical bullet of that time period. They basically just filled it up to the max with black powder under the bullet. The bullets used weighed from 115 grains to 135 grains. The early ones used externally lubed bullets and later they used internally lubed bullets. Internal lubed means the lube grooves in the bullet are inside of the case with just the rounder head of the bullet sticking out. The early heeled bullets had a step on them to fit into the case with the larger diamter portion of the bullet on the outside of the case. The .38 Short Colt cartridge is sort of the parent for the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special cartridges. You can shoot the .38 short Colt in the .38 specials or .357 magnums.

They appear to have used and maybe still use the .38 Short Colt in ICORE competition matches. They use a chronograph and start with a mild load and slowly increase the powder charge until they get the velocity up to make a 125 power factor and then they stop and use that particular load they worked up. They are a little heavy on the bullets using 150 to 160 grain bullets. They start with a two grain powder charge and work up towards three grains in .1 to .2 increments, until they reach a 125 power factor. They use Vihta Vouri N310, Clays, VV N320, Titegroup, etc. Using shotgun powders would not be a problem either. It appears everyone was using their own custom load so no two fellows used the same reload data. It was all individual for each.

The original factory load data has it firing a 93 grain conical at about 800 fps and a 130 grain bullet at about 780 fps. So one can just use the minimal load to reach those numbers without trying to increase its performance. That might simply be using a 2.0 grain powder charge to reach these numbers right at the start.