Graf & Sons BP?

[Kevin Rohrer]

I am finding out that if I want to use real BP I need to go mail order. The Graf & Sons house brand is the cheapest at $15 a pound; has anyone tried it and can comment on it?

[Maven]

I've used 13 lb. of it (made by Wano for Graf & Sons) and found it a tad cleaner than Goex. However, I've also been using Diamondback and find it to be more energetic than Graf's and cheaper as well. Here's the guy I purchase it from: Jon Blackert, Crater Fireworks/Addicted to Black Powder.

[country gent]

I have never tried the Graff& Sons powders. I suspect it may be packaged under thier house brand by one of the black powder manufaturers though. I have used Goex in 1 1/2F, 2F. Olde ensford in 1 1/2 F and 2F. Swiss in 1 F, 1 1/2 F and 2F with good results. Im using quite a bit of the olde ensford right now, I believe it was $18.00 a lb when I ordered it from buffalo arms.The thing to do is order a mixed case of powder Graff and Sons, goex,olde ensforde, and swiss in the granulations you want and test them in your rifle and conditions. From my experience Goex needs a little more compression and fouling is a little heavier. But when proper compression and lube is found it does shoot well. Olde Ensford lighter compression and less fouling seems to shoot very well for me in my rifles. Swiss almost no or very little compression needed light fouling and consistant. I shoot 38-55 with either a 335 grn lyman bullet or 365 grn Old west NASA bullet. 40-65 I am shooting 400 grn Old West Nasa bullets or 400 lyman snoover. 45-70 is 510 grn lyman roundnose or 535 postell. The 45-90 sees mostly 535 grn postells or 550 grn Old West shilouette bullets. In the 50 I also shoot a baco 420 grn PP bullet and the 45s do see a PP bullet from an adjustable brooks mould. I find heavy for caliber bullets tend to give more consistant extreme spreads and also seem to lower fouling levels some also. With these rifles and the calibers especially 45-70 and 45-90 it takes a pretty healthy tip of the powder bottle for each round. ( in the 90 theres only about 70 rounds in each 1lb can LOL). So a mixed 25lb case dosnt go very far or long. You didnt say what caliber your working with here, That info might be helpfull also

[Kevin Rohrer]

Am shooting it in a 45-70 and 50-70, but only informal shooting.

[John Boy]

I suspect it may be packaged under thier house brand by one of the black powder manufaturers though.
http://www.grafs.com/uploads/product-picture/preview/5403.jpgA new formulation of black powder developed by Wano Schwarzpulver of Germany for Graf & Sons utilizing premium grade Alder Charcoal. Alder is one of the most preferred bases for sporting black powder due to it's low residue/fouling characteristics as well as shot to shot, lot to lot consistency.

http://www.grafs.com/uploads/vendor-logo/192/40.jpg
Wano BP sold in the US (other than under a Graf's label) is Schuetzen. The powder for Graf's is not "New". Wano has always used Alder wood for their charcoal that they subcontract. It is not Alder Buckthron wood that only Swiss and KIK use to make their in house charcoal. Why Buckthron? Because of the fiber composition of the branches which holds the glucose (sugar) in the Spring
(http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/vendor/vendorId/40)

[Don McDowell]

It's repackaged and sometimes labeled Schuetzen brand powder. It is a good powder if a person doesn't want to shoot Olde Eynsford.

[Geezer in NH]

I buy American. Old Enesford is good power. I still shoot Goex regular powder a few foot per second and so called cleaner? BP in ML I wipe at the range. Hunting is how many shots a day? More than 3 I would just wipe and CM.

[BrentD]

If you like to make smoke and some noise, any powder will do, but if you want the best accuracy.... Swiss. When it comes to accuracy, the sun rises and sets on Swiss and nothing else.

[aspangler]

I bought 10 pounds of the Graf's. Have had NO trouble with it in ignition or accuracy.

[pugjunga123]

I'm going to order some from Graf and Son's.
Thanks for the info

[freedom475]

Olde E 1 1/2 took more matches this year than Swiss.. Olde E 1 1/2 also won the biggest BPCR match in the world last year!!

Winners win because they are better shots period! And more of those winning shooters are making the switch to Olde E everyday....God Bless America!!

So please support our LAST American blackpowder Co. and buy Olde E..

I have shot 50-75lbs of the Grafs powder and it works well...... but it won't hydrate near as well as Olde E when shooting BPCR!!!.... Grafs is nice for muzzle loaders and C&B revolvers.

BPCR = Olde E 1 1/2:Fire:

[Chill Wills]

Am shooting it in a 45-70 and 50-70, but only informal shooting.

I think based on the few lbs I have shot, that it will be fine for informal shooting and to have fun with your rifles. Hunting accuracy as well.

It lacks what I need for match accuracy but that does not make it useless. If the price point is the key for you it would be a good choice to get you going.
Have fun with it; it won't be the last powder you buy.

[Bodine]

Gents please refrain from personal attacks, I would hate to have to delete an otherwise productive thread.

[Don McDowell]

Kevin I found that the Grafs/Schuetzen doesn't like much compression. 65 gr of 2f under a .030 fiber wad and a 535 postel bullet shot real well in the 45-70. It doesn't seem to be real particular about primers, but BR-2's are seldom a bad choice.

[BrentD]

Gents please refrain from personal attacks, I would hate to have to delete an otherwise productive thread.

wish you had posted that back on the 30th.

No doubt, Goes Olde E is the second best powder out there. It is pretty darn fast too, but lots of us have shot it and we have consistently not found it to stand up to Swiss. I had hoped that it's rep for less fouling would make it a better choice for my lever guns, but it didn't pan out there either, and I used 1.5 f Swiss at Nationals, and 3f Swiss on a pronghorn last Thursday.

Back in The Day, the Brit's Curtiss and Harvey #6 powder was the benchmark for all other powders. Today, Swiss is the new C&H.

[rfd]

having loaded and shot only goex, oe, wano and kik, i find that swiss is just better with regards to consistency and horsepower with less fouling. swiss works Very well for me with a fair amount of compression, even lots of it. i dunno where the no or low swiss compression thing started. ymmv.

[bob15]

A little late to respond, but in case someone else is looking for BP, I found this place to be the cheapest for a case (cheaper than Powder, Inc): http://www.deercreekproducts.net/black-powder.html

[Klaus]

There are a lot of different Grades of the Wano Stuff exist here in Germany

for your interrest i copy in a list with Grades and Sizes also the actual price

179978

I have had used some Brands of Black Powder which are available in Germany but for any reason i come always back to Wano Jagdschwarzpulver Nr. 1 ,
Powder Kernels are 0,6 - 1,2 mm like 1 1/5 FFg

70 grs Nr 1 in Winchester Brass,Pistol Primer, Lyman Postel with one Grease Grove exposed
no wiping between ,10 shoots at 100 m

179980179979

Klaus