New to me steps in my Cast Boolit process --------

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I have played with the idea of buying a cast boolit/alloy hardness tester for a long time and just never made the plunge.

Well an internet friend commented that he might be persuaded to let go of his Cabin Tree hardness tester and considering that is the one that rang my bell, I took him up on the purchase.

First thing that impressed me when I rec'd the tester was the heft. Well Made and set up to give precision readings.

I did a number of fly by the seat of the pants tests, and found that I desired to have the tester mounted in a stable position during the process, so decided to mount it to the tool plate of my under bench receiver system.

I'll attach some images of the tool attached to the tool plate.

It was easy to make the needed adapter that securely holds the tester in place, and this will be MUCH better then doing something like clamping the tool in a vice where it would be scared up over time.

Plus it allows me to do the tests right at my loading bench.

With the exception of the two larger holes in the tool plate, all the 1/4" drilled and tapped holes in the plate are for attaching various hand loading tools. Some like the RCBS bench mount priming tool are used with frequency while my shot shell loader is seldom used but can still be quickly attached to the tool plate if needed by simply bolting the tool into place in the pre drilled holes.

Presently, I'd give this Cabin Tree tester high marks while there are some testers that would not even make the bottom of the list in this Ol'Coot's opinion.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

173820173821173822

[bangerjim]

I put stick-on rubber feet on mine to prevent any sliding. But I take mine with me to the scrap yards so I want it free as a bird.

Glad you finally moved up to a good tester!

banger

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good idea Banger Jim.

CDOC

[Guesser]

I have a Cabin Tree; sure makes for more precise and repeatable alloy mixing.

[Walter Laich]

Cabin Tree is my go to tester.

I keep mine in an airtight box with Silica Gel in it. Houston garages are never dry. I did find some kitty litter that is pretty much Silica Gel. Easy to find as the bag is transparent and there is no doubt once you see it. Will last for years as it's a big bag compared to how much we use

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Walter,

Lucky here, as we just don't need to deal with that level of moisture.

I have seen things rust if left in a shop or garage that has a lot of temperature changes, but loading tools in the house are just never a problem.

I remember as a kid living in Salem, Oregon and hard candy getting soft in the cupboard.

CDOC

[Dusty Bannister]

I really like my Cabin Tree but had trouble keeping track of the starting point on the hex nut. I took a small tie wrap, snugged it up on the threaded shaft under the brass pointer and clipped and filed it short so it would rotate with the shaft and not contact the brass pointer. This allows me to set the tester, adjust the tie wrap and then give the one complete turn with certainty.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting Dusty!

CDOC

[mold maker]

Being frugal I started with a LEE which I couldn't see. Next was a Saeco which only measured boolits. Finally, I spent the coins to get a Cabin tree. It's mounted on a length of 2X8 cut to fit in a 50 cal ammo can. Now all three are in the safety of the ammo can.

[OS OK]

Well...just because you bought the 'right one', 'right' from the start...doesn't negate my 'rights' to scream and curse at my Lee as I endeavor to become as steely as a statue and develop the eyes of an eagle at age 66...does it?

Sometimes I do things the hard way, not because I intend to...only to get by cheaper. Somebody hit me in the head with a hammer, please!

[bangerjim]

Which size? I have hammers from 1/8oz to 15#!!!! HA....ha!

[OS OK]

You choose Banger...but I'd suggest the 15#'er...you won't have to do it twice!

[bangerjim]

Then that tells me your head is darned near as hard as mine!!!!!!! [smilie=p:

[OS OK]

To heck with the hammers, just put on some 'new age' music and we can 'headbang' for a dance or two. That'll 'geterdone'.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Funny guys!

CDOC

[VHoward]

I really like my Cabin Tree but had trouble keeping track of the starting point on the hex nut. I took a small tie wrap, snugged it up on the threaded shaft under the brass pointer and clipped and filed it short so it would rotate with the shaft and not contact the brass pointer. This allows me to set the tester, adjust the tie wrap and then give the one complete turn with certainty.
How about a dry erase marker. Mark the starting point on the hex head and turn the one turn. Then the mark is easily removed. And fingernail polish remover or acetone will remove most permanent marker ink. Just use a cotton swab like a Q-Tip.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I just completed some hardness tests and the tester mounted of my tool plate is perfect for height.

Easy to see the dial and make the adjustments and place the bullets in the proper place.

Tested 10 bullets cast for my .44 (rifle and handgun) from a mold made for the .444 which my son has. These are cast of just plain Wheel Weights which are quenched as they fall from the hot mold.

The 10 averaged .09375 on the dial giving a hardness (Brinell) of 23 - 24 Low was .095 and the high was .095.

Then ten of my 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead 465gr Wide Flat Nose - also water quenched - surprised me with an average of .0927 with a low of .091 and a high of .0945.

I expected with the use of 50% lead that they would be a bit softer. These also came in at 23 - 24 Brinell.

System working GREAT and easy to use as set up!

I need to test some ingots of lino, mystery metal etc. to see how they compare with the Cabin Tree info.

The quenched WW in the .44/.444 Wide Flat Nose bullets were exactly with the Cabin Tree information with the 23 - 24 Brinell hardness.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ole_270]

Just got mine Friday. Turns out the alloy I've been using for years is softer than I thought. Tested some 38-250 flat point bullets that were cast about a month ago and got 11-12. Tried testing some 88 gr for my 25-20 but the flat was too small. Leary of filing them down past the ogive for fear of work softening the surface.
Question for you guys that have been using them for a while. When testing an ingot, say a 2 lb from a muffin pan, how much softer will the ingot test than the smaller, faster cooling boolit?

[OS OK]

I just completed some hardness tests and the tester mounted of my tool plate is perfect for height.

Easy to see the dial and make the adjustments and place the bullets in the proper place.

Tested 10 bullets cast for my .44 (rifle and handgun) from a mold made for the .444 which my son has. These are cast of just plain Wheel Weights which are quenched as they fall from the hot mold.

The 10 averaged .09375 on the dial giving a hardness (Brinell) of 23 - 24 Low was .095 and the high was .095.

Then ten of my 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead 465gr Wide Flat Nose - also water quenched - surprised me with an average of .0927 with a low of .091 and a high of .0945.

I expected with the use of 50% lead that they would be a bit softer. These also came in at 23 - 24 Brinell.

System working GREAT and easy to use as set up!

I need to test some ingots of lino, mystery metal etc. to see how they compare with the Cabin Tree info.

The quenched WW in the .44/.444 Wide Flat Nose bullets were exactly with the Cabin Tree information with the 23 - 24 Brinell hardness.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I'm only asking, don't take offense.
The plain WW I would expect to see @ about 12.5 before they quenched and increase to 16 or so quenched and increase hardening maybe another point after that making them 18 at highest with age.

The 50/50, I assume those are COWW and SOWW, if so I'd expect to see those at 9 or 10 before quench, 12 or 13 after and 14 at the highest with age.

I don't understand exactly what you did in the operation of that tester but only suspect something went awry since the two were so closely measured.

Can you expound?

charlie

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OS OK,

No offense taken.

The .44/.444 bullet cast of Clip on Wheel Weights and quenched as they fell from the hot mold, show a Brinell hardness on the tester of 23 - 24 which is exactly the same as the info provided with the tester.

With that said, I feel my method of tester operation must be pretty close to correct.

Operation is surprisingly simple, especially mounted to my tool plate as shown in the earlier images.

The 465gr Wide Flat Nose are cast, as said, of a 50/50 alloy of clip on Wheel weights "COWW" but the lead would only be a small portion stick on Wheel weights "SOWW".

Most of my lead is pure lead bought from Roto Metals or other sources.

So, yes I was surprised that the quenched 465gr Wide Flat Nose bullets tested as high as they did.

However, considering I was exactly on the money with the Quenched WFN .44/.444 bullets and using the same process for the testing of the larger bullets, I am confident that I am pretty close to correct.

I tested 10 bullets in each group and the difference between highs and lows was very small in both cases.

ole_270,

I also cast for .30caliber, but the bullet has a flat point so I'll try testing some of those on the small flat point.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[OS OK]

I don't want to start a comparison between your tester and mine, I don't think they are even in the same league...yours being most exact of course, but...believe me when I say this...I have endeavored to persevere in becoming accurate with that dang little pocket measuring scope, so much so that I even color the lead surface with a red marks a lot to reduce shine and held an auxiliary pen light just right to eliminate shadows...I've tried my level best to get the right measurements and though it's been difficult I've become quite handy with this method.

OK after that intro, I want to just say this...I've not experienced such measurements of the material you mention, this is completely new to me and since you have the better of the two instruments...I'm sorta left with my mouth agape and astonished a bit also.

We live and learn, heck that's why I came here....charlie

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Charlie,

I'm willing to send you some samples if you wish to test them.

I'm new to the testing game and sure don't have a degree in it!

CDOC

[OS OK]

Good idea...I send some to you too. I'll pre test the ones I send to you and write it in a separate folded paper, then you test and compare notes.
I'll do the same with yours, lets do the big ones .44 or .45 cal.

PM to follow

[MnSpring]

Many years ago, when I was a Kid, learned casting, (And a Whole Bunch of other stuff), from a, 'old fart', drove my bike about 1 mile out of town to his farm. (Now I am the, 'old fart'). He did a simple test, with 2 bottle caps, a steel bb, Pure lead, his, 'un-known' alloy, (Hardness), and a piece of paper, a pencil, and a caliper.

Below I will link to the page, (It's at the Bottom), that tells how to do this.
And the formula. A Whole lot faster than typing everything. Cost? Your Time.

www.texas-mac.com/Evaluations_and_Recommendations_for_Lead-Alloy_Hardness_Testers.html (http://www.texas-mac.com/Evaluations_and_Recommendations_for_Lead-Alloy_Hardness_Testers.html)



Finally, if price is the overriding factor, you can make a simple low-cost
tester with a single ball bearing and a vice, as long as you have access
to a small amount of lead or lead alloy of known hardness. Knowing the
hardness of the reference material is the key to this technique. The
results will be at least as accurate as using one of the commercially
available testers noted above.

You’ll need two bottle caps, a vise, a ¼” to 3/8” diameter ball bearing
and a sample of lead or lead alloy of known hardness for the reference
material. Pure lead is an excellent reference material since it has a
known hardness. You’ll also need a vernier caliper for measurements.
1. Start with two steel bottle caps. Set the caps on a brick and
heat with a propane torch to burn out the plastic inner seals. Let the
caps cool and dump out any burnt residue.
2. Melt enough lead to completely fill one bottle cap with the
unknown sample, and the other with the known hardness reference lead.
The surfaces should be as smooth and flat as possible when the lead
hardens and cools. You may have to skim off some crud or oxides and
re-melt the samples a couple of times to obtain good surfaces. Allow
the samples to cool by themselves (do not quench with water to speed
the cooling).
3. When the samples are cold, put the ball bearing between the two
lead surfaces and squeeze the "sandwich" in the vise until the ball
bearing is driven partly into both surfaces (just enough to make fair size
indentations, but definitely not past the middle of the ball).
4. Remove the sandwich and, using the vernier caliper, measure
the indentation diameters as accurately as possible. Using the following
formula, calculate the hardness of the unknown sample.

Hu = Hr(Dr)(Dr)/(Du)(Du)

...where Hu is the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN) of the unknown
sample, Dr is the diameter of the indentation formed in the reference
sample, Du is the diameter of the indentation in the unknown
hardness sample and Hr is the BHN of the reference sample

Assuming you know the hardness of the reference sample, this method
is as accurate as your ability to measure the indentation diameters. A
relatively smooth surface is necessary to provide a "clean" diameter to
measure. A rough surface will throw off the answer because you may
not get a true diameter to measure. As noted in the beginning of this
article, the BHN value for “pure” lead can vary. If you're using pure lead
as the reference sample, you’ll have to decide on the BHN value to use.

The measurements should be taken shortly after the samples have
cooled as lead/tin alloys will age soften and lead alloys such as wheel
weights with antimony will age harden.