Sub for 2400

[gunauthor]

I use 2400 for several rifle cartridges (16 grains for 308, etc) and find it to be fairly accurate. I am nearly out and having trouble finding it locally. Any suggestions on a substitute? What is up with Alliant, I have a great LGS and they haven't had any of their powders for a long time. Thanks for your help.

[tja6435]

Accurate No. 7 and No. 9 do well for substituting for 2400. 300-MP is a lot slower than 2400 but works well for full house loads.

[dverna]

The Lyman cast bullet reference lists "accuracy" loads. Depending on your calibers and bullets, it may be one source for determining a good powder for your needs.

[sghart3578]

I shoot 16 gr of 2400 under my cast bullets in a '03 Springfield. When I was running short of 2400 I found that 15 gr of A #9 was actually a little more accurate in my rifle.

Also, 14 gr of Unique was a good one. And 13 gr of Red Dot. All were very good but the A #9 load is definitely a keeper.

[MarkP]

IMR4227 would be close as well.

[MT Gianni]

Accurate No. 7 and No. 9 do well for substituting for 2400. 300-MP is a lot slower than 2400 but works well for full house loads.
In a pistol, OP is looking for rifle loads. I would not substitute any of these for 2400 rifle loads. I do use AA9 in 30-30 but at a different rate than 2400.

[RU shooter]

Unique in the 14 gr range

4227 is a tic slower than 2400 and does well in rifle in the 17-20 range

Accurate 9 , I've tried it with only Ok results

Reloader 7 never used it but a lot of guys have great results in the 20-25 gr range

4198 is similar to the RE7

4895 28-32 gr range

there are tons of powders that can be used to get an accurate load just have to find the sweet spot for each and which ones best for your application , if your just 50 yd paper punching 6 gr of bullseye will shoot as well as any of the above .

[wiljen]

I've had good luck with blue dot in rifle loads. It is a good bit faster than 2400 so not a grain for grain substitute. I have used 13.5gr of Blue Dot behind a 185gr cast bullet in the 303 brit with good results as well as in the 30-06 for my 1917s and 03s. Both of those loads generate about 1600fps.

[runfiverun]

accurate 4100
western powder also makes enforcer which is 4100 in a different bottle.
in many loads they are within 1/2gr of 2400 for super similar velocity's and pressures.
it also meters just as good.

I don't usually say nuthin about it.
I have about 25 lbs of it put up [plus some commercial branded same stuff] so I don't care who buy's it now.

[Lloyd Smale]

accurate 9 on the slow side of 2400 and hs6 on the fast side. Both will work for reduced rifle loads but to be honest nothing works as well as 2400

[jonp]

Vectan BA 6.5 might get you there. Grafs has a deal on it with no hazmat.

[fatelvis]

accurate 4100
western powder also makes enforcer which is 4100 in a different bottle.
in many loads they are within 1/2gr of 2400 for super similar velocity's and pressures.
it also meters just as good.
Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like I'll be looking for Enforcer soon if I can't find any 2400. Thanks River.

[robg]

Unique is OK but I'd hunt down 2400 its my favourite in my 308.

[runfiverun]

no problem.
I traded Dick Casull some Unique for a big batch of the commercial stuff about 2-3 years back and started working with it in my 300 BO.
when I got to where I was happy with the velocity and accuracy I wanted I just happened to notice the data coincided with 2400 in the Hornady book [when I was looking for some sub-sonic data] so I started investigating further.

[Elkins45]

Vectan BA 6.5 might get you there. Grafs has a deal on it with no hazmat.

Naturally it's among the most expensive of the Vectan powders.

[quail4jake]

I trust Ed Harris who really stresses the use of 2400...but I can't find it either. So my question would be what is a safe range to use IMR 4227 in military rifle loads. (advice please). OK now the big question...Hodgdon now owns DuPont brand (IMR) and Winchester brand smokeless powders but publishes very little cast boolit data, why? It seems like we have to resort to Ken Waters and old Hercules data to find safe ranges for our homebrew galenetic wonders, someone tell me...WHAT"S THE BIG PICTURE HERE? (LOL)

[beechbum444]

I cannot find 2400 anywhere either. Glad I found this thread, Ive been looking for alternatives too.

[runfiverun]

4227 takes more, about 22 grs is in the ball park.
that's also how much AA-1680 it takes to duplicate the 2400 loads I use in my 0-6.

Ed switched to 2400 after seeing the pressure data from red-dot shot on a piezo transducer.
it really contradicts everything Richard lee said about pressure X whatever but 2400 gets you the same velocity with about 10-k psi lower on the peak pressure scale.
you just have to watch for it being position and primer sensitive in the bigger cases.

[crowbuster]

Got 6 lbs in tenn a month or so ago. Cabelas I think. It is starting to show up. Keep a look out gents

[leebuilder]

In the same boat, can't find 2400 anywhere. I have been using Longshot, so far I have had good results in milsurps, using up to 19grs
Be safe

[Edward]

Anyone know if Accurate 4100/Enforcer position sensitive like 2400 ?

[Wis. Tom]

Judging by this post, I have been blessed to have 2400 on the shelves around here lately, so the next time I see it, I will be picking up a couple more pounds, just for storage, as if things go south again in Nov., we might all be in need. I have stocked other powders, but 2400 I am lacking.

[leadman]

I have found SR4759, no longer made, but still around to work very well at a little heavier charges than 2400. Alliant 300MP is a very good powder for boo lit loads, but again at heavier loads than 2400. Blue Dotted is faster than 2400 and builds pressure faster also.

[Rustyleee]

Isn't H110 considered a sub for 2400 ?

[rintinglen]

Another good cast boolit powder is 5744. Much slower than 2400 but very useful and accurate in 30 caliber rifles. If you find some 4759 snap it up.

[RogerDat]

ADI powder equivalent chart list 4100 or Vihtavuori N110 as equal to 2400 +/- 5% I seem to recall that H110 requires full pressure to burn well. In .357 or .44 mag it can work well but not so well as 2400 in reduced loads. Full power it can be good in those two, not sure how this translates out to your needs.

[izzyjoe]

Another good cast boolit powder is 5744. Much slower than 2400 but very useful and accurate in 30 caliber rifles. If you find some 4759 snap it up.
I bought several pounds of 4759 a few years ago when it was available, but I've looking for 5744 for awhile and never found it locally. When I see 2400, I grab it! Bought one pound at a gunshow for $20 two week ago, so now I have two LB's of it.

[dragon813gt]

Isn't H110 considered a sub for 2400 ?

No, it is not. 2400 is a very versatile powder w/ a lot of applications. W296/H110 is for full power magnum loads only. It does not take well to load reduction. It will become real erratic at lower pressures. W296/H110 is a great powder for it's specific application.

[sandman228]

its funny ive been following this sight for a while now and have seen how popular 2400 is . over the past couple years with the powder shortage ive been grabbing what I could when I could and a few years back when I owned a Taurus judge I started loading 410 shot shells with 2400 . I also tried it in 357 magnum , I know allot like it but I don't ive since moved on to others for 410 and never used it again in 357 . so recently I decided to clean out a few lbs of powder ,stuff I still had full unopened containers and don't use anymore or stuff that I had way to much of, among them was a full sealed jug of 2400 plus I have an open container of it maybe a little less than half full . I advertised my powder on a local classified for 25$ a pound . I know for some that might seem steep but I know how the game works I advertised 25 expecting to get 20 . I had a few low ball idiots offering me 10 or 12 a pound for my powder (unique and blue dot to boot) I told them to pound sand . in a day or 2 it all went but the 2400 I figured if someone wanted it for 20 they could have it and I would offer them the partial jug for free if they wanted it . I didn't have allot to sell just 1 lb of unique 1 lb of blue dot 2 lb 700x and the 2400 . I thought the 2400 would be 1st to go but its still here .seems you cant even give it away around here

[pinztrek]

After much searching for 2400 and reading to try to determine what to substitute for it, I've bought both unique and AA#9 to try.

I use 2400 extensively in two applications: 16g in 7x57 Spanish Cavalry Carbine for fun and also 16g in .41 mag blackhawk with cast bullets. Even setup a "Lil Dandy" measure to throw exactly 16g, which makes it super convenient.

Dealing with the 41 is easy, there are many published AA#9 loads and results. And it's a full load, so no worries.

But it's not clear to me in all the discussions that AA#9 can be downloaded to duplicate the classic milsurp 16g of 2400 without position/SEE concerns. It does appear folks are using it in that application, so hopefully it is.

Is AA#9 position independent like 2400 is? Or would it be safer to go the 10g of Unique route for the 7x57, 7mm08, and 308 milsurp type loadings?

If it makes a difference, I'll probably be shifting from 170-175g 7mm bullets down to 150g just based on availability. I've mostly been shooting some crusty 175g RN my brother gave me from a neighbor shed clean out. I've shot them up, so will be chasing CB alternatives and also shooting 150g bulk Jacketed until I find some CB's.

Any suggestions welcome. I'm hoping the AA#9 can be used similar to 2400 in reduced loads as it's widely available locally and cheap. ($19/lb yesterday at LGS)

[fatelvis]

Click here for 2400 in stock in 1 and 8lbers.
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,17.html

[runfiverun]

AA-9 does take downloading pretty well.
as far as your 7mm goes just get the rcbs 145gr silhouette mold.

[pinztrek]

Click here for 2400 in stock in 1 and 8lbers.
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,17.html

Appreciate the tip and was excited to see it in stock. But at $42/lb shipped (2 1lb limit apparently) I'm going to have to hope local stores get some in. The 8lb'er gets above my interest level.

the 7x57 milsurp is supposed to be my cheap shooter! :-)

[pinztrek]

AA-9 does take downloading pretty well.

Thanks, so position independent, no SEE or ignition concerns then? Just like 2400 in that aspect? That's fantastic!

There are probably 4:1 more inconsistent posts on AA#9 from pistols ("Love it", "Hate it, squibs", etc) than for the AA#9 reduced rifle loadings. So just had to ask!

It appears my Lil Dandy rotor that throws 16-16.2g of 2400 should throw 18.5g +- of AA#9. Which appears to be in the zone many are using for 30/06 & 8x57 sized cases. Hopefully won't be to warm for the slightly smaller 7x57. Would not mind a bit more steam as I'm shooting from a shorter (17.5") barrel and have seen some slight primer movement with lighter (150g) bullets. I'll work up to confirm.

Hmm, also appears the same rotor will throw 10.5g of unique, so may have to give that a try as well.

I do want to get into casting, just have to find a lead source. All my local tire places either are already selling it under a contract or have a policy to not sell. But will keep looking.

Thanks much!

[pinztrek]

And of course as soon as I buy AA#9 and unique to use as 2400 alternatives I find 2lbs of 2400 in stock locally. (Yay)

I think I'll try the AA9 for the 41mag and save my 2400 for blooper 7x57 loads

[40sand9s]

Cabelas has it on sale for 26/lb free standard shipping over $100 but you still have to pay hazmat. There is no limit as well so I just bought 8 lbs. There is a Cabelas in my state so I also had to pay tax. Hope this helps

[rockrat]

I tried #9 once. Downloaded it too much in a 44mag. Took the top of the cylinder off and bent the topstrap up at a 90 degree angle.

[runfiverun]

if you go too low with many powders you'll experience issues.
I wouldn't try 4 grs of unique in a 44 mag or 454 casull either.
4350 is also one of them which kinda sucks since it's in a good burn range for reduced rifle loads that are still moving along at 21-2200 fps.
AA's 4350 is still more stable at lower loads than the other 2.

noting the see type event.
I have been able to make it happen with green dot and some shot shells with no shot in them by using paper hulls and rolling the crimp down around the wad fingers.
you get the familiar pop then a kafoom when the powder gets going again enough to unfurl the paper crimp.
it's pretty easily repeatable, but scary when you know what's going on.