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View Full Version : More Para USA Woes.. Buyer Beware, Look Carefully Before Carrying



DougGuy
08-06-2016, 06:36 AM
A friend brought a Para Expert .45 ACP by the house, it had ceased to function. He called on the phone and said the trigger would move but nothing else would happen.

Upon arrival, took the slide off and the disconnector was stuck in the down position in the frame and would not pop up. This gun had been fitted together or should I say crammed together with cast parts, as cast, and the disconnector and sear were a collection of burrs and hangnails on every single 90° edge on both pieces. The bottom surfaces of the disconnector were SO rough, it had become stuck, between the trigger and the spring, the spring unable to push it back up into position.

I took a very fine file and dressed every surface and every corner on the disconnector and the bottom of the sear legs, and it works smoothly now like a brand new 1911 SHOULD work. Disconnector is snappy and pops up and down smoothly.

This same gun had ceased firing once before when the slide stop physically fell out of the gun and became lost in the grass at the firing line. There wasn't enough tension on the plunger to provide even the slightest resistance against the slide stop. The thumb safety falls into position loosely and just feels limp. It works, but since the same spring that didn't hold any tension against the slide stop holds an equally lamentable amount of force against the safety, the safety comes right out with the slightest tug.

It gets better.. The barrel on this particular gun accepted a .4445" pin gage halfway from the chamber to the muzzle before it stopped. This is the bore diameter, riding on top of the lands. One member here owns the same Para USA model that the barrel was so tight in, I had to order a .4415" pilot to be able to throat it so it would plunk handloads. .4415" to .4445"? That's a LOT of difference. Most 1911 barrels will take a .4420" .4425" pilot and the older looser WWII era barrels will take a .4430" but there is no excuse for how sloppy the barrel is in a new production 1911. The rifling looked like it had 200,000 rounds shot through it and had less than 500.

Two critical failures that caused the gun to cease fire in less than 500 rounds? Due to poor quality castings and even poorer workmanship cramming these things together before they are sold to the general populace?

I'm not knocking Para USA as much as I am putting this out there as a courteous HEADS UP to Para owners, fellas you MAY want to be taking a close look inside at the innards of the gun you are staking your life on if you are carrying one of these in the box stock as-issued condition. There was really nothing wrong with my friend's Para Expert, nothing that a little time with a file didn't fix. The investment cast parts are fine. They just need to be gone over and smoothed, filed and stoned, so that they do not on their own, create a problem that would cause the gun to quit firing mid string or to drop critical parts of itself out at the firing line.

Just sayin'...

w5pv
08-06-2016, 07:14 AM
Thanks for the info

Mk42gunner
08-06-2016, 07:26 AM
That's sad. I had a Para LDA (Officers size) about a dozen years ago that was a very good pistol, I just didn't like a pivoting trigger on a 1911.

Wonderful carry gun though. It ate everything I fed it with zero malfunctions.

Robert

376Steyr
08-06-2016, 12:58 PM
One of the big surplus dealers is selling "Para" parts that were left over from one of the company's reorganizations. Who knows how many "Para" guns are going to show up that have been cobbled together in somebody's garage. "Para USA" has been absorbed by Remington, the brand killed, and the leftover guns are being liquidated by a wholesaler. I don't think I'd want to buy a gun put together by a factory hand who has just been told he will be let go next week. All-in-all, it's now "Buyer Beware" when it comes to the Para brand.

Der Gebirgsjager
08-06-2016, 03:10 PM
That is indeed sad, and a change that probably came about with the death of one of the original owners and the company changing ownership. I've got two 7:45 LDAs, one P-14, one P-14 LDA, one P-13 and all were properly fitted and function very reliably. All were purchased prior to 2005, so something happened since then.

Tackleberry41
08-06-2016, 06:29 PM
So basically Remington wont be happy until they have sucked the blood out of every brand on the market then sold them off in pieces.

W.R.Buchanan
08-06-2016, 06:44 PM
Doug: I had a Para 16/40 LDA. I took the slide off it at the gun shop to look at the inside before I bought it, and we couldn't get it back on to save our butts!!!!! It took a gunsmith a week to figure out that you MUST have grip safety depressed to cycle the slide on the LDA guns,,, period. You can't put the slide back on with out the grip safety depressed. If you needed to lock the slide back and your hand was out of position you couldn't move the slide! I considered pinning it but decided against it.

Instead I traded it strait across for a new Glock 21 SF, and there is no comparison whatsoever between the two guns,, The Glock just works! The Para will bite you when you need it most. I did like the 16 round capacity on the gun.

I still have two brand new mags for the Para if anyone is interested ?

It's a shame those parts were that bad. Those are not cheap guns and whereas I can see some room for Home Improvement on a $500 gun, I kind of expect an out of the box winner for anything over $800.

To hear they assembled this gun with parts they could have tumble deburred for essentially no extra cost whatsoever is sad.

I have beat the Marlin guys black and blue for not doing this simple process to the internal parts on the Remlins.

I schooled Del Ton for an hour on this same procedure to deburr all their Internal AR parts as they weren't doing anything including breaking drilled hole edges on Triggers, Hammers and Disconnectors that were made from "investment castings" and drilled in little drill jigs on Harbor Freight Bench Top Drill Presses!

They didn't want to spend the money to tool up for MIM parts which everybody and their dogs are using for these guns. I even found them 3 different suppliers that were already making AR Parts! They were behind in 2012 to the tune of 150,000 sets of internal parts, and a recent trip to their website looking for a Rifle Kit showed that they don't have anything in stock for this go round of Panic Buying and it is not even September! They didn't learn from last times mistakes and I won't have anything further to do with a company that has people that stupid running it. It took them 2 years to catch up last time! Now they are right back where they were 4 years ago. [smilie=b:

Attention to Detail and Personal Responsibility are the corner stones of craftsmanship, they are also the corner stones of manufacturing complex assemblies (cars, guns, anything with more than a dozen parts that have to work together) I have seen too many companies go bust over just this kind of either lackadaisical attitude towards product quality, or over zealous Bean Counters micro managing in house processes until they cut out all the finish work entirely which sounds like what you saw.

This is why people ship stuff offshore to be made. Some of our people are the best there is,,,, Others not so much! The ones that are the best there is,,, cost too much,,, and the others just plain suck.

Sad state of affairs.

Randy

DerekP Houston
08-06-2016, 10:00 PM
Dang Doug didn't you just talk me into buying one? Now I gotta tear it down and check it out just to be sure :D, hadn't even made it to the range yet.

DougGuy
08-06-2016, 10:14 PM
Dang Doug didn't you just talk me into buying one? Now I gotta tear it down and check it out just to be sure :D, hadn't even made it to the range yet.

No Derek you got an AO 1911A1 which is a good clip better than the Para even though both use investment cast internals. The two AO 1911s I have are fit pretty dang good inside they weren't crammed together with as-cast parts.

My buddy who has the Para in question just ordered all Wilson Combat parts to replace the internals even the pins. Eventually it will make a decent shooter and maybe truck gun. Probably have to find yet a better barrel for it but there is something to be said for shooting cast through a tapered bore and buddy does it EVER have a tapered bore, so who knows it might surprise me. I haven't shot it yet.

Lloyd Smale
08-07-2016, 05:59 AM
yup I owned on just like that for a while and it never missed a beat. I couldn't get used to the trigger either though
That's sad. I had a Para LDA (Officers size) about a dozen years ago that was a very good pistol, I just didn't like a pivoting trigger on a 1911.

Wonderful carry gun though. It ate everything I fed it with zero malfunctions.

Robert

emorris
08-07-2016, 05:36 PM
My Para GI had the same issues with the slide release lever. Bought mine in 2006.

GONRA
08-07-2016, 06:10 PM
GONRA's .45 ACP Para-Ordnance P14 13 shot steel frame,
.45 ACP Para-Ordnance WARTHOG 10 shot pistols are excellent!
BUT - purchased looong ago....
Sounds like the brand is screwedup / gone? ???
GLAD I got 'em when I did!

robertbank
08-08-2016, 07:14 PM
PARA was iffy when they were being made in Canada and only got worse after the principle owner died and the family sold the company to a US firm. Good concept that brought the double stack 1911 to market and then their improved para extractor but beyond that not much else to say good about the guns. My son has a FS double stack and it was made good after a trip or two to Para in Toronto back in the day. I don't think the gun ever got over the slide stop peening.

Take Care

Bob