How is 22lr ammunition made? Tour of cci and speer [Archive]

Mica_Hiebert

08-04-2016, 12:14 AM

Minutes 3-7 is a production line I turn wrenches on. That's our most advanced line at cci. We load tons more on different, less automated machines as well.

*disclaimer* any information giving is that of my own and is not representation of vista outdoor inc.

Buckshot

08-04-2016, 02:20 AM

............Fantastic automation. Hopefully it quiets down some folks who wonder, "Why don't they just add more ammo making machinery (to keep up with demand). That'd be quite a capital investment (not including new structures to house it if required) to acquire something that produces what will most likely eventually become commonly available again.

............Buckshot

lefty o

08-04-2016, 07:40 AM

alot of the stuff is the same as at federal but a good bit is different, definately different levels of automation. as far as quieting the crybaby's down, wont ever happen. been trying to tell people for years now how much it would cost and how much machinery is involved, but heads are buried in the sand.

Jungle867

08-04-2016, 09:05 AM

Many millions of dollars in machines. I wonder if there is a cheaper setup for those looking to load 1k-5k a day install of 500k.

lefty o

08-04-2016, 11:48 AM

there is just no good way to make it cheaper. well you could make it like remingturd does, but thats no cheaper, and a bunch less reliable.

MrWolf

08-04-2016, 11:08 PM

Thanks for that, very interesting.

Buckshot

08-04-2016, 11:17 PM

............Main issue with increasing production after going to 3 shifts (assuming your suppliers can meet your new material requirements) is that you don't simply call up good ol' Mel at the ACME 22 RF Ammunition Making Machine Co. INC, and ask to have 5 complete new setups delivered by next Tuesday :-) I'm sure there are the original plans/blueprints around for them but it's a very large and BIG $ process. Heck, it might take a couple years to get one new complete line ordered, made and installed? Haven't the foggiest idea, but I'll bet that if any of the manufacturers figured it'd pay, they'd have done it.

Lots of various companies have gone to castings, and MiM (Metal Injection Moulding) as a cost savings, but I understand that a mould can run $70,000. I have no idea if that's a simple mould or not. Nor do I know if that figure is a run of the mill figure. I'd read about it concerning some stuff for which S&W was using MiM parts, and that was the mentioned price for ONE mould. Nor do I know how long a mould will last?

...............Buckshot

Mk42gunner

08-05-2016, 12:43 AM

So how many others thought "Boy, I sure would like to have one day's worth of their lead?"

Interesting tour.

Robert

MrWolf

08-05-2016, 08:28 AM

Hehe pretty close. Was wondering how to roll a 600lb cylinder on my truck (think I heard that weight) except my truck died Wed of terminal rust on the frame.

Hickory

08-05-2016, 08:43 AM

I went through CCI's plant back in 1979, things haven't changed much, as far as process.

jmorris

08-05-2016, 09:55 AM

I really like the bullet flipper at 5:30.

Just think, if you could have had all of that setup and running 100% the day the shortage started, it could have been paid for by now.

PaulG67

08-05-2016, 10:15 AM

How cool is that. Great video.

35remington

08-10-2016, 12:56 PM

Given the very small profit margin on 22s I would guess that it takes a long time to recover capital investments and expenses. If it did not they would be adding machinery faster than they do.

In other words, they look at the long term and don't respond to demand spikes as they don't pay for much. Too unpredictable and short term.

jmorris

08-10-2016, 04:57 PM

Given the very small profit margin on 22s I would guess that it takes a long time to recover capital investments and expenses.

There are still some parts where .22 is still scarce and some of the prices I had seen were completely ridiculous. Unfortunately I think the days of the $8/500 box have passed us for good.

35remington

08-10-2016, 06:38 PM

The scalpers see the profits, not the makers.

lefty o

08-10-2016, 08:07 PM

with the internet, you can order 22rf ammo to anywhere you might reside. a few minutes of searching will find all you want or need.

rondog

08-11-2016, 12:10 AM

Mica_Hiebert

08-11-2016, 12:17 AM

I saw a show once on TV of CCI making .22lr ammo, I thought this might be the same video but I don't think it is. The one I saw was a little different, longer and more detailed I believe.

But still VERY interesting! Visiting various ammo plants for tours is definitely a bucket list item for me!

Shooting usa once did a tour and we still use the machines featured on that tour along with the load line shown by the Plinksters tour I tried to find their footage to post on this thread but it seems to have been deleted from the interwebs...

rondog

08-11-2016, 12:53 AM

Shooting usa once did a tour and we still use the machines featured on that tour along with the load line shown by the Plinksters tour I tried to find their footage to post on this thread but it seems to have been deleted from the interwebs...

That may have been it! That is/was a regular TV show, right?

Do you work for CCI? Do they do tours for us unwashed peons?

Certaindeaf

08-11-2016, 07:01 AM

Well let's hope they have enough capital, forethought and risk aversion to invest in an extra large coffee maker at least. Here's to hoping.

imashooter2

08-11-2016, 07:23 AM

The guy with a rubber squeegee and a table full of high explosive was the surprise for me. I would have thought adding the priming compound to be a bit more... high tech.

Buckshot

08-12-2016, 02:19 AM

The guy with a rubber squeegee and a table full of high explosive was the surprise for me. I would have thought adding the priming compound to be a bit more... high tech.

.............I know that that is the way Winchester still does it for centerfire primers and I'd bet the others do also. Per Winchester (or I suppose it's Olin) they use a time tested employee (old timer?), for the process. In addition to squeegey-ing out the primer dough, which is inert while still pliant, the good ole Mk1 Mod1 eyeball detector is used to ensure each and every hole in the receiver plate is filled, before the plate is moved over the awaiting cups.

............Buckshot

imashooter2

08-12-2016, 07:10 AM

.............I know that that is the way Winchester still does it for centerfire primers and I'd bet the others do also. Per Winchester (or I suppose it's Olin) they use a time tested employee (old timer?), for the process. In addition to squeegey-ing out the primer dough, which is inert while still pliant, the good ole Mk1 Mod1 eyeball detector is used to ensure each and every hole in the receiver plate is filled, before the plate is moved over the awaiting cups.

............Buckshot

I understand it is much more difficult to initiate while wet, but that's still a big pile of boom and a not very sophisticated process.

Mica_Hiebert

08-12-2016, 09:22 AM

That may have been it! That is/was a regular TV show, right?

Do you work for CCI? Do they do tours for us unwashed peons?

I am a machine setup for CCI in the rimfire priming department.

I have not seen any regular joes tour the plant... Troy Landry from swamp people toured a few years ago and 22 plinkster (youtube sensation?) toured when this video was filmed. both of these "celebrity's" have sponserships from CCI for promoting our products.

*disclaimer* any information giving is that of my own and is not representation of vista outdoor inc.

jmort

08-12-2016, 09:38 AM

Very interesting. Far more complicated than I imagined.

GONRA

08-12-2016, 05:50 PM

footpetaljones

08-13-2016, 11:31 AM

I would think sticking tungsten carbide in a thin brass shell would rip up a lot of cases.

AK Caster

08-14-2016, 09:49 AM

Very interesting. Far more complicated than I imagined.

My thoughts exactly. Very enlightening.

Mica_Hiebert

08-14-2016, 10:15 AM

Mike_Hiebert - GONRA wonders if the "Latest & Greatest" production lines
SPIN the priming mix into the hollow rim, OR
they hold THE NONROTATING CARTRIDGE CASE,
insert a rotating Tungsten Carbide shaft that spins the mix into the hollow rim?

I would think sticking tungsten carbide in a thin brass shell would rip up a lot of cases.

My thoughts exactly. Very enlightening.

Case is held stationary and a spinner throws the priming to the rim of the case, our "latest/greatest" uses carbide tooling that lasts up to a month the rest use heat treated steel tooling that we have to change twice a shift.

15meter

02-27-2017, 05:03 PM

The guy with a rubber squeegee and a table full of high explosive was the surprise for me. I would have thought adding the priming compound to be a bit more... high tech.

I was told a number of years ago by a guy that toured one of the MFG plants that the difference between run of the mill primers and "match" primers is that they are done usually on a Saturday by the person who has exhibited the most consistent technique with the squeegee. The reward for doing well was Saturday overtime pay.

buckwheatpaul

02-27-2017, 05:16 PM

John Boy that was fascinating.....only wonder how many rounds they average making a day.....thanks for sharing....Paul

15meter

03-01-2017, 09:57 AM

I am a machine setup for CCI in the rimfire priming department.

I have not seen any regular joes tour the plant... Troy Landry from swamp people toured a few years ago and 22 plinkster (youtube sensation?) toured when this video was filmed. both of these "celebrity's" have sponserships from CCI for promoting our products.

*disclaimer* any information giving is that of my own and is not representation of vista outdoor inc.

Back in the 90's I worked for a data collection company, a co-worker went to an ammunition plant-I think it was Remington-when he entered the plant he had to fill out an ID card with his personal info. Like emergency contact and phone #. This was placed in a concrete re-enforced "vault" outside the plant. It was explained to him all employees put ID's in the vault on entering the plant and retrieved them on the way out. If there was a big KABOOM they knew where to send the flowers....

Beeks

03-08-2019, 03:09 AM

Classic video.

lefty o

03-08-2019, 03:03 PM

Back in the 90's I worked for a data collection company, a co-worker went to an ammunition plant-I think it was Remington-when he entered the plant he had to fill out an ID card with his personal info. Like emergency contact and phone #. This was placed in a concrete re-enforced "vault" outside the plant. It was explained to him all employees put ID's in the vault on entering the plant and retrieved them on the way out. If there was a big KABOOM they knew where to send the flowers....

sounds about right. when i worked at federal, we electronically logged in and out when entering and leaving the plant. it was done so they could figure out who was or was not missing in the event of a mishap.