Herniated disc and cortisone injection....anyone been down this road?

[trails4u]

Not necessarily a 'Chapel' subject....but seemed like as good a fit as any. I had a hip 'tune up' surgery back in Feb., and then a set back in rehab toward the end of March. It was diagnosed as a bad piriformis muscle...so we treated it as such for a couple more months. No gains....so ordered a MRI. Ended up being a herniated disc at L4-L5, putting pressure on a nerve root.

Just had my first cortisone injection today....went well, no pain, I can still feel and move everything. They said 7-10 days I should see a difference.

Anyone else had this done? Any advice? Success? Failure?


I appreciate any input I can get....I REALLY need to get back on my feet, but trying to manage my optimism. :)

Thanks! Chris.

[jcren]

My wife herniated a disc. Doctors were saying surgery or lifetime pain management. We got her an inversion table and after a few months, she rarely has any pain 6 years later.

[Preacher Jim]

I had problems chiropractor did the strech table and pain gone. Had about 50 folks praying for my healing which I give the credit for the healing.

[2thepoint]

In October of 2012 I experienced a significant herniation of L4/L5 with extensive damage to the nerve root of my right leg. Dragging my right foot resulted in tearing the meniscus in my right knee. The first couple months were no fun. High doses of percocet was the only thing that allowed me to sleep or function. There were times the perc's barely relieved the pain. Prior to this, I wouldn't take an aspirin! Anyway I had three epidural injections under fluoroscope with no relief. Some folks get instant relief, I wasn't that fortunate. Months later, after a spinal manipulation or two the pain started to subside and I weaned myself off the percocet. I went to a couple different physical therapists which sometimes caused more pain than the disc or knee. Not sure whether I would do the PT again...just saying. Stretching exercises, using a strap did help with the nerve pain and a little with the spine. Last year I had an arthroscope clean out of the knee which went well. According to an EMG done about 8 months ago, I still have nerve damage of my right leg. The L4/L5 herniation has improved. I'm not 100% pain free, but it's tolerable. Every once in a while I may take a couple ibuprofen if the back starts nagging.
I guess my advice would be to research your injury as much as you can. Make sure you have open dialogue with your treatment team i.e. ortho doc, physical therapists, etc. Ensure that they're all on the same page as far as your treatment plan. Don't be reluctant to ask questions, challenge, and get 2nd opinions. Especially if you encounter any set-backs!! Listen to your body. If it doesn't feel right, let them know and ask what other options you have. My ex-primary doc got insulted because my ortho doc was calling the shots. My primary was informed, but not involved. He suggested that I consider surgery -a laminectomy(sp). That's one of the reasons he became my EX.
Good Luck Chris! I hope the cortisone shot did the trick and you're heading toward healing. One last thing....when you're feeling better, be careful of overdoing it!!

Phil

[Vopie]

I had the injections in the spine, really helped. Every four months I was back in for the injections. This went on for a couple years until I retired. Funny how taking that duty belt off and getting away from the B.S. greatly improved my back.

[trails4u]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I've been doing a lot of research on my own, as well as getting advice from my primary ortho (hip), my physical therapist, and the anesthesiologist that did the injection today. He recommended inversion therapy, but was reluctant to support chiropractic. I think I'll be looking into an inversion table!

BTW -- Since we're in the Chapel here....I'll take all the prayers I can get. This has been a yearlong saga of pain and inability to perform my duties at work and home to my fullest extent. I'm not wired well for 'failure'....and those thoughts, however misguided, are starting to creep in. I'm not one to ask for much of anything.....but lift me up, if you feel compelled.

God Speed!

Chris.

[Hogtamer]

2the point, I feel your pain brother. Herniated same disc about 8 yrs ago. The old neurosurgeon I saw told me that if I could walk don't do surgery...too many variables. The cortisone worked for me, injected and oral. Not the prednisone type. Gave me a "lifetime pass" out of yard work. I have a breaking point that I had to learn to respect....bending over, lifting and the like, that if I ignore I'm down. Play within those limits and I'm good, just had to learn to tell myself and others sometimes, "no."

[jcren]

Prayers sent

[Moleman-]

I've had the shots and nerve blocks starting back about 2004 for L4-5 herniated disk and have had 4 back surgeries so far. Had no back pain initially, just my leg went left numb. Started hurting a few days later. There was/is several other issues with my back which is why the shots didn't keep me from surgery, but hey did delay it for a while and help keep me moving. My advise to you is to only get the shots from someone who uses a fluoroscope to guide the injection and make sure at no point do they ever use a mesh patch to repair your disk if you ever have surgery.

[bubba.50]

herniated disk, yes. cortisone shots, no. I know too many people who've suffered permanent nerve damage from the shots & I already have enough of that now. they(doctors) say "it's a one-in-a-million chance we nick a nerve when givin' these shots". funny thing that 'tween me & the wife & a couple of her friends we know about 20 millions worth of those people draggin' their off hind leg around from nerve damage. and whenever I expressed my concerns about possible nerve damage, they're a mask not a cure, and the cortisone leaches yer bones over time they were never able to refute my reasonin'. so, I passed on the shots.

the Neurontin I took for nerve pain helped a lot but, when the "pain management specialist" kept uppin' the dosage it got to where it made me sick. after I self regulated it back to around 400 milligrams it was okay again.

luck to ya & have a good'en, bubba.

[bangerjim]

Wife could not even get out of bed or hardly walk. Went to a "pain specialist" and had spinal injections of "something", a series of 3, and after the 1st one she was 80% better. 2nd one back to 95% and she stopped at 2. 3rd one not needed per doctor. VERY expensive but it DOES work! Amazing stuff.....NOT cort! Cort does not last very long....mabe a few months from what friend have told me.....and can cause other related problems as said above.

It has been 5 years since her shots and she is still pain free 99%.

Go to a "pain specialist"........ not an MD.

banger

[trails4u]

Thanks banger;

The guy that did the injection yesterday is just that, a pain specialist. I was referred to him by my hip specialist (ortho). I suppose he is technically an anesthesiologist by training/degree, but he is the head of the pain management group associated with my orthos. Supposedly one of the good ones....I guess we'll see. I've heard of bone marrow/stem cell injections being very successful, but there are no clinics/specialists anywhere near me that offer those treatments. I'm very happy to hear that your wife had success, both for her/you, and me on a more selfish note. :) I'm very much enjoying the success stories here......I do love some hope.

[MaryB]

Been there, done that, ended with a 5 inch long scar in my lower back to remove shredded disc and bone spurs... shots did nothing for me. Doc suggested them for my neck and I flat out said I am not dealing with the cost($50 copay every time + $45 for a driver) and the pain form that hack digging in my spine with a needle. They do not work on me, but everyone reacts different to different meds!

[smokeywolf]

It can always be worse. Was seeing a internist, a pain management doctor and a neurosurgeon for several months after rupturing a lumbar disc. Neurosurgeon said he shies away from the epidurals. Usually don't last long and sometimes cause more problems. He said back surgery will often fix one malady and trigger 2 others. Said as long as I can tolerate the pain without loading up on the opiates, best to avoid the back surgery.
So, I take the 800 mg Ibuprofens; sometimes 3 or 4 in a week, but usually less than that in a month. Alternate with OTC aspirin and Ibuprofen when in less pain. The Mrs. massages my back and left leg at night and sometimes in the morning too.
I'm used to the pain. What's funny is, frequently when I lay down on the bed at night, a lot of the pain that I'd been ignoring all day suddenly flows out of my back and the sensation is so profound I start laughing as though I'd just heard a really funny joke.

I'm thinking that sometime in the not so distant future I might try the spinal decompression.

[rondog]

Main thing to remember about back problems - every single one is different in every person. What's ailing one may seem similar to what's ailing another, and they may be....or they may be two completely different problems, with totally different treatments.

The way I look at it, next time you're butchering a deer or a hog, try to imagine you're looking for a pinched nerve or damaged disc or other problem on that carcass and you're trying to fix it - without causing ANY other damage! Kinda puts things in a different perspective.

And be careful with inversion tables! I have one, and it helps, but it's very easy to freak out your back muscles that are already unhappy and at the ragged edge. You change things around suddenly as far as gravity and the way your body is used to operating, and you can have several muscles go into severe spasms while trying to protect you from damage. And spasms/cramps in back/core muscles are NO fun!

BTDT.

[6bg6ga]

Herniated disk and had surgery as it was my only option.

[w5pv]

Had the same but ended up with surgery any how,my Doc told me it was a case of the insurance co wasting money,This was in 96 and been doing fine since then.

[Pine Baron]

Praying for you, Chris, May God bring you healing and strength. Amen

[Windwalker 45acp]

I have them every 3 months. I have two ruptured (completely gone, vertebrae on vertebrae discs, s1, L4, L5) and several herniated in the mid thoracic. Diagnosed with Disc Degenerative Disease at age 28 and i've had injections since then ( in my 40's now).

So yep, have lot's of experience with them. What do you want to know?

[Blackwater]

Some excellent advice given above, but I think Rondog gave the best overall. I've fought this since '81 when I reinjured old football injuries very badly. Have had 3 sureries on neck and back, and the whole spinal column has been a near constant (and sometimes litereally constant) "challenge." A chiropractor helped me immensely for about 20 years, and this was the least "invasive" treatment I could have had.

But let me tell you about chiropractors! I just lucked into a real savant, apparently, because none since him have really done much to help me after he closed his office here and moved to Atlanta. But while he was here, a friend was having similar problems, and he called me at work one day asking me to take him there for a treatment. I left work, and had to help him to the truck and get him in to take him. There were tears in his eyes, even though he was very stoic, normally. I helped him into the office for treatment, and Ralph helped him back to the treatment room, did his magic, and darned if he didn't strut out like a proud bantam rooster! So, that's what sold me on chiropractors, and my experience with Ralph was much the same. Haven't found another anything like Ralph, though. Many tend to want to get you onto a regular cycle, and that was simply more time and less effective than Ralph had always been, so I quit them. And I think I tried 4 more - all there were in town at the time, but none did anything near what Ralph had done for me. So when it comes to chiropractors, they DO vary very WIDELY in what they do and how they do it. IF you can fine ONE really good one, they can really be a tremendous help. IF you can't find one that works for you, you'll probably conclude they're all "quacks." But it's not necessisarily so. And in my experience, it's hard to find one that "clicks" with whatever condition one has.

Finally, after many told me "You'll know when it's time for surgery," I DID find that true, and had back surgery - a trim job on the disc. That worked for about a year, but the disc was too far gone, and a year later, it completely disintegrated, and put me in the worst pain I could ever bear, I think. Morphine wouldn't touch it!!! So I had another surgery and a great neurosurgeon fused the disc. Believe it or not, I didn't take ANY pain meds after the surgery except a couple of tylenol the afternoon after the surgery!

So that's why I say Rondog gave the best advice. Each case is different, because there are so many ways and degrees these things can be caused by. I had the shots, but they never worked well for me, but that was just one case, and I know others for whom they DID work.

This is just one of those things where there is NO "one cure fixes all" type things available. Only advice I can give, really, is if you get surgery, I'll always trust a neruosurgeon for back operations moreso than I will ever trust orthopoedists. Overall, and through the years, they've just tended to yield the best results overall. Much depends on the patient, too, of course, and whether they follow the docs' recommendations and advice strictly or not. It's a very complex question, with no pat answers, and has to be dealt with on a "one case at a time" basis, in my experience. For over 20 years I questioned everyone I knew about back problems and operations, and this is what I found pretty consistently through all that pre-op investigation years.

I'll be praying for you. Only those who've been through this and suffered can know how debilitating it can be. And one last piece of advice: If it comes to needing surgery, go ahead on and don't keep reinjuring it by putting it off. That can work AGAINST you! And for many years, they were really learning more and more how to do these things, and why, and all the ins and outs and particulars, and now, they're awfully good at it. And when they tell you how to conduct yourself after the surgery, DO IT! I can't emphasize that enough! How you treat yourself while the healing is going on CAN and likely WILL determine how well it works for you. Don't be hard-headed! Just resign yourself to being rather wimpy until it's healed fully, and you'll in all liklihood be grateful to yourself for it. What you do while it's healing up really, really matters!

[Walla2]

One thing about the cortisone. Give it a little time. My first injection gave me almost immediate relief. A year later a second injection for a different area is slower to proceed. It is two weeks now and I can measure steady improvement, but not as fast as the first injection. It is taking a little longer. Don't be impatient, just chill if you can. As long as you can feel improvement you are moving in the right direction. Prayers for you.

[trails4u]

Thanks for all the feedback folks! There's not really relief in knowing so many others have suffered through this, or are still suffering. It's a pain in the...well, back and leg specifically. But I am very happy to hear the successes, and failures, and kind words of encouragement.

As for me and progress....I'm about 24 hrs. out. No major change, although when putting my shoes on just a bit ago, I found I was able to sit on the edge of the bed, bend and pull them on without pain or straining. It's a small win....but I'll take it as a sign of good things to come. Didn't sleep much last night...dang, that stuff has me jacked up. Headache most of today...but not bad. If it continues to improve my back and leg...I can deal with a few mild side effects.

Thank you all again for the kind words and prayers. They do help!!!

[tja6435]

I was also found to have degenerative disc disease at 28 yrs old. I have 5 discs affected and used to be in constant, acute pain. The thing that's helps me more than anything was a product called 'dna force'. It's expensive but it's improved my back so much, some days it's like I don't have any problems at all with my back. My dr says to keep on it and is considering taking it himself.

[Blackwater]

Trails, one of the things I've learned, and pretty much in spades, is that if you don't have patience, a sense of humor, and a good dose of grit in you when you start getting older, and start paying for the mistakes we make in our more youthful years, is you'd better develop all those traits, and the sooner the better. I know I'm a great example of one who abused my body profusely in my earlier years, and now I'm paying for it. As the old saying goes, "too soon old, too late smart!" They may put that on my tombstone!!! But the Good Lord lets us get old so we CAN learn from our past experience. It's tough gittin' old, but .... beats the other options by a mile!!! A sense of humor and humility in recognizing how we got this way kind'a helps us bear it more gracefully ... where that's possible, at least. Good luck, and prayers will continue for you. These things can determine how well our "golden years" go!

[GhostHawk]

We have an inversion table and my wife and I have both used it. Never alone, never without someone standing there wide awake paying attention. First twinge of pain bring it up.

Muscles that have been in a rough way for a period of time can spasm on release of the load.
Think big charlie horse on muscles attached to your back. If one hits you can do nothing, not even scream well.

With the above caveat's, yes we both believe that an inversion table can help. Improperly used can also hurt.
We seldom go more than about a 45 degree downward angle. At that point the strain is off, slow gentle sit ups, torso twists, arch left and right will work and relax muscles that have been holding a strain.

But at the first pain twinge quit. You went too far.

[smokeywolf]

Be sure and study when not to make use of an inversion table.

http://teeter.com/Contraindications/

[MaryB]

Watch the headache, if it gets worse you have a spinal fluid leak...


Thanks for all the feedback folks! There's not really relief in knowing so many others have suffered through this, or are still suffering. It's a pain in the...well, back and leg specifically. But I am very happy to hear the successes, and failures, and kind words of encouragement.

As for me and progress....I'm about 24 hrs. out. No major change, although when putting my shoes on just a bit ago, I found I was able to sit on the edge of the bed, bend and pull them on without pain or straining. It's a small win....but I'll take it as a sign of good things to come. Didn't sleep much last night...dang, that stuff has me jacked up. Headache most of today...but not bad. If it continues to improve my back and leg...I can deal with a few mild side effects.

Thank you all again for the kind words and prayers. They do help!!!

[WFO2]

I had to herniated discs in my neck T6 and T7 . I know have a titanium bracket behind my adams apple . Just got a Radio Frequency Nerve Ablation and still in pain . Hang in there are good days and bad .

[Blackwater]

WFO's right. But thankfully, my neck surgery couldn't have gone better. I still marvel if I get an X-ray of my neck, and see that huge titanium bolt in there! And I can't feel a thing! It's truly a miracle what they can, at least sometimes do these days! So you DO have some real hope of something to really look forward to. My back surgeries went great, too! It's the others that didn't get a fix that bother me now. Seems I'm just falling apart at the seams sometimes! I earned it, though, and I'm just SO thankful they can do what they can now.

And one last thing. Be SURE to ask around and do your due diligence in selecting your doc for any spinal operations! This, I think, is the most crucial element of it all. Docs are just like the rest of us, and some are absolute savants! Try to find one of those, as best you can and know how. I always like to get to know my docs as well as I can so I know how to "interpret" what they're telling me and their motivations. Their essential character has, in my experience, tended to help choose among the better ones, if not in fact finding the best, though there's always some element of luck in that for us non-physicians. Prayer helps in this selection process, I think. Some research into the various docs in your area CAN sometimes make a big difference in how you come out in the end. Lots of trouble, and hard to know how to do, but do all you can, ask everyone you talk to what they know, and it's surprising what you can come up with. I asked everyone I knew about back operations for over 25 years before I just couldn't take it any more and HAD to have the surgery. In that time, they learned an awful lot, and I'm glad I made it as far as I did before finally having to acede to the knife.

I'm a good ol' boy, and don't like being cut on unless I can cut back, and they take care of that little detail by putting you to sleep so you can't fight back! [smilie=l:

Research ahead of time really helped me resign myself to the ops. I recommend it highly.

[MaryB]

The right doc as mentioned is a must! My neurosurgeon is good enough that the hospital dedicated an entire floor in one wing to his use. 2 patients per on duty nurse! Very high quality care!

[djgoings]

My L5/S1 disc was herniated in 2012. I tried PT, acupuncture, ibuprofen, and injection (under an x-ray). Had x-rays and several MRI's. The only thing that helped was ibuprofen. It helped keep the swelling down, thus relieving the pressure on my pinched nerve. I had surgery to remove the "bulge" in August 2015. Surgery was pretty simple and easy. All of the bulge was removed. The surgeon also opened up the passageway where then nerve goes down through the bone. All was heaven until November 2015. I spent less then 10 minutes raking leaves and herniated the same L5/S1 disc again. Had another MRI and this bulge is slightly larger than the original one. However after a few weeks of ibuprofen, about 95% of the pain is gone. The surgeon said the extra space he created where the sciatic nerve goes down through the bone is resulting in less pressure on the nerve. Things have been pretty good since November of 2015. If I have any amount of sciatic pain 1 advil will take care of it. If the sciatic pain ever comes back like before I will not hesitate to get the same surgery again.

[RogerDat]

Main thing to remember about back problems - every single one is different in every person. What's ailing one may seem similar to what's ailing another, and they may be....or they may be two completely different problems, with totally different treatments.

The way I look at it, next time you're butchering a deer or a hog, try to imagine you're looking for a pinched nerve or damaged disc or other problem on that carcass and you're trying to fix it - without causing ANY other damage! Kinda puts things in a different perspective.

And be careful with inversion tables! I have one, and it helps, but it's very easy to freak out your back muscles that are already unhappy and at the ragged edge. You change things around suddenly as far as gravity and the way your body is used to operating, and you can have several muscles go into severe spasms while trying to protect you from damage. And spasms/cramps in back/core muscles are NO fun!

BTDT.

My Physical Therapist said that if you have high blood pressure avoid inversion tables. Check with you MD if you have hypertension. Other than that have heard several people recommend them. I would take it easy on the amount of inversion. Muscle spasm in an already injured back is both more likely (splinting to protect injury) and more painful since already injured.

Reading this with interest. Recovery from herniated disk with some pain/numbness from nerve pressure. Week before getting shots the clinic I was scheduled at started having patients die from contaminated cortisone. Know one or two with good results from surgery, one or two with it from shots. Others the shots were not much help and same amount of risk short and long term listed above. Or surgery just didn't work.

[trails4u]

Continued thanks for all the great feedback. I'm 4 days out from my first injection....first couple of days I thought I was getting some good relief.....today, not so much. They told me don't judge anything for 7-10 days, but dang....today was rough. Any time on my feet at all and the old symptoms have come screaming back today. Feels a bit better this evening now that I'm off my feet....but I have to admit, I'm losing some of my optimism. :(

[Blackwater]

Welcome to back problems, trails! I hate to tell you this, but they DO recur rather unexpectedly and seemingly randomly at times. It's said that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. I think it's pretty much the same with back problems, at least oftentimes. Like I said, a good sense of humor, so you're not focused on the pain as much, and a tough mental attitude, and some really good docs, area all needed in dealing with them, at least if my case is considered typical. Hang in there. You CAN deal with it. It's just not real fun occasionally, but the simple fact that we're here TO feel the occasional pain is a blessing that's easy to forget sometimes. Lots of folks didn't wake up this morning, so we're all blessed, even if also challenged at the same time. Prayers up for you again.

[Boaz]

I truly hope you get relief , got the problem myself . Never had the shots but know many that have . Results are varied , My sister has done well with periodic treatment. I will pray it helps you .

[MaryB]

They do make a device you lay on and strap in that stretches your spine, like a mini medieval torture rack lol I had one, cause me more pain than helped so I got rid f it. Your physical therapist and doctor can prescribe it...

[DLCTEX]

The first spinal shots helped for almost a year. The second session about six months. The second round caused a nose bleed the next day that required a balloon in the nose to get it stopped. The third day I had strong angina pain that sent me to the cardiologist and had a cardio gram. No blockage currently. Doc said probably caused by old bypassed arteries. I asked if the shots could have caused the pain and he said no. I googled side effects and found angina pain can be a side effect. Dr seemed offended when I told him.

[smokeywolf]

They're always offended when you present information that is apparently more current than theirs.

[Windwalker 45acp]

Continued thanks for all the great feedback. I'm 4 days out from my first injection....first couple of days I thought I was getting some good relief.....today, not so much. They told me don't judge anything for 7-10 days, but dang....today was rough. Any time on my feet at all and the old symptoms have come screaming back today. Feels a bit better this evening now that I'm off my feet....but I have to admit, I'm losing some of my optimism. :(

Yep, it sucks.
Back problems will effect your whole body, as I am sure you have learned by now.
Wait until you sneeze hard and almost black-out from the pain... been there and done that, once while driving:shock::shock:

My advice to you is to re-invent your life/body.
Learn your limitations, take things slowly and exercise when you can.

I've tried every gimmick, trick, therapy, procedure known, except surgery and this is what i've learned over the course of living with back problems:

-Lose weight: Any gut you have will pull on your discs, aggravating and causing more pain. Diet and exercise to lose the weight and keep it off. I know, it hurts and it sucks, but you WILL feel better in the long term. Low impact like swimming and exercise bike is what I do.

-Exercise: They're exercises and stretches that Physical Therapy can show you that can keep your spine in alignment, and to allow the discs to stay put. Learn them and apply them.

- Injections: They're various injections and techniques, mostly due to which disc they happen to be trying to hit. I've had half a dozen of different types. If your pain is sciatica and in the lower region, say s1 area, you might want to ask your doc about the Caudill Injection. They go up your tail-bone to administer it.... hurts like a dickens, but this type has given me the most relief of any of the others.
Whatever type you are getting, give it time to work and relieve some of the inflammation. Don't over-do it. In fact, take it as easy as you can for the first week.
-Misc:
Learn to not stand on hard surfaces very long... or walk on them. If sitting for very long, pull your effected leg, by your knee, up to your chest. This is a form of traction and it separates the discs allowing some relief. Sleeping at night on a firm surface with multiple pillows under your knees is also a form of traction that will allow some relief.

Next year will be twenty years of me living with back pain and these are things that i've learned or picked upon that the doctors won't tell you about. HTH

[Blackwater]

One other thought that I just discovered, now that my hips seem to be wore completely out, is that some of the pains and discomforts and strain/fatigue I've been experiencing may well be due to hip problems instead of the back issues I've been thinking it was. Had two surgeries on the back and they were definitely necessary, and one on the neck, likewise, but after reading up on hip replacement and hip problems, it now appears self-diagnosis of further back problems may not in fact be all there is to it. Just a FWIW. The more I learn about back/hip problems, the more I realize how interrelated they really can be and sometimes are. As the old saying goes, too soon old, too late "smart." I think I could be the poster child for that little truism!

[trails4u]

You're spot on BW.....I was mid-rehab from a hip surgery when the disc went in my back. Got to get it healed up before I can do the other hip. Gettin' old ain't for the faint of heart!!!!!! :)

[Blackwater]

Amen to that last! When I was a kid, we'd stop by friends' homes if they were in the yard and yak a bit. We "men" would stand around the load bed of an old pickup, and the old men would sometimes talk about their miseries, and laugh, and you could see the twinkle in their eyes. I thought they were kidding and exaggerating! Such was the dumb kid I was! How was I to know they were only speaking of the tip of the iceberg?

Their sense of humor, and their humility in just being grateful to still be here, kept their perspectives straight. And I never realized it at the time, but it really hadn't been that long when many folks died in thier 40's from stroke and all sorts of things that weren't very well understood back then. How lucky we truly are to still be here in our "Golden Years!"

Comparing the pain and pleasures in my life now, I'm STILL way ahead of the game, and with all the stuff that surgeons and docs can do today, we are truly, deeply and righteously blessed! And we're the first generation on earth to have access to these wonders. Very humbling! Who could complain in the knowledge of all that?

[MaryB]

9 surgeries and I am still going! Part of it is I am to stubborn to quit lol pain lets me know I am alive each morning!

[Mytmousemalibu]

Been down this road......? Not only have I been down this road, I'm one of many that has paved a mile or two with blood, sweat and tears. Boy, where do I start! My problems started in my mid-teens and not too far into my 20's I was diagnosed. I have 3 herniated disks, one in each zone, cervical, thoracic, and lumbar. Diagnosed with degenerative disk disease, moderate severity congenital scoliosis oh and some arthritis too. All found in my early 20's and at the ripe old age of 33, things haven't improved, actually the opposite of improve. My lumbar L4-L5 is the bane of my existence. That disk has ruptured to a small degree and the gel that is in our disks is a nerve irritant which is leaking into my nerve canal. I have tried just about everything short of surgery with some things helping, some are a draw, some I won't dare do again. I have done cortisone epidural injections in the past with some success but only after my anesthesiologist targeted the right area. It reduced my need to buffer with pain meds as much and did reduce my pain level overall. The bad thing is cortisone isn't good for our disks so it's kinda a win-lose deal. Physical therapy helped a small degree but nothing exhilarating. I had an inversion table for a little while and I can't say I really noticed much. The biggest thing for me has been to be considerate to things that piss my back off but stay active without overdoing it. I can't do any one thing for too long before pain really escalates. Standing, sitting, lying down, walking, etc. I'm reliant on pain meds to a degree, it's the only real relief I get until I come to the surgery crossroads. Without, I am in agony. Surgery, that is what it's going to take and for the time being, it's going to have to wait. I am a little hesitant too because it can be a real crapshoot. For everyone that surgery really helps, there seems to be an equal number of people it doesn't or makes worse. For now, I have to suck it up and carry on for more reasons besides my own trepidation.

My advise to you is to retain physicians you trust and try some of the easier things first. Don't go sign up for surgery in a hurry unless you are really advised to. Surgery should be the last option. If you can get by without perscription pain meds, I would do so. If you don't have really, really good self control, it can lead you down a really troubled road. I have done fine going on 12-13yrs of the perscription meds path but have personally witnessed many people crumble. Again, I'll advise not to go that path if you can. We are all different in our causes & effects and what works for us. I certainly wish you the best for recovery and finding relief!

[MaryB]

Low back surgery(lumbar decompression, they removed chewed bits of disc and a lot of bone spurs) helped me for 5 years. That was 5 more years of a relatively pain free lower back. Worthwhile trade off in my opinion.

[trails4u]

I appreciate the continued input on this thread, everyone! After a couple weeks of being disappointed in the first cortisone injection, I have since seen improvement. I'm nowhere near 100%....but at least at a point where the pain is manageable without any meds, and able to sleep at night. HUGE improvement for me...guess it just took longer for me for the cortisone to work. I've since greatly increased my physical activity...walking quite a bit more, on purpose, and just doing more in general. It causes temporary pain and discomfort, but seems to help in the long run. I've hit the 'cautiously optimistic' stage....hope it holds out!

God Speed!

Trails.

[Pine Baron]

Great news, Trails. Praying for continued improvement.

[Windwalker 45acp]

Trails,

Maybe I missed it, but which type of injection was it? Lumbar epidural, Transforaminal, Caudill, etc???

[trails4u]

Trails,

Maybe I missed it, but which type of injection was it? Lumbar epidural, Transforaminal, Caudill, etc???

I believe it was the TF.....as the herniation is directly impacting the nerve root.

[rheagunman]

I'm in the same boat to. Mine started in the spring of 94 while working with root balled trees at a landscape co. The day it happened i did not know anything was wrong with my back until the next morning when it was all i could do to get out of bed. The Dr. they sent me to gave me some muscle relaxers & total bed rest then come back in a week. After a week the Dr. sent me for an MRI then to see an orthopedic surgeon who recommended surgery or risk being paralyzed from the waist down. Disk 5 L1 was out & pressing on the sciatic nerve running down my left leg. I put off surgery, got a 2nd opinion, & about a month later went ahead & had the surgery.
At the time it did help but i would still get a ketch like someone had those nerves in there fist twisting & pushing there knuckels into my left but cheek.

[Blackwater]

Well, don't mean to hijack the thread and make it about me, but the surgeon looked at my x-rays and said it was a combination of arthritis and bursitis. I didn't even know you could get bursitis in the hips, but looking back, I guess I should have guessed? My record on self-diagnosis has traditionally been pretty fair, but when it comes to the vertebrae and joints, I've learned that pain in one place may well be due to a problem somewhere else. So I've learned to at least keep an open mind when it comes to these things.

Complicating matters is the fact that my ins. co. seems to be slanted towards non-surgical stop-gap proceedures. I've got an appt. with my GP tomorrow for some sort of injection to see if it'll help. A friend has indicated that they didn't work for him, but have for some others, but with all the wear and tear I've put on mine, I still think surgery's in my future. It's all about when the ins. co. decides to throw in the towel and approve it, I think. It's been years since I could really walk right, now. I've always been one to put off treatment as long as I could. Refused back surgery and got by with a chiropractor for 30 years, but sooner or later, the piper has to be paid. I've earned every pang I've accumulated I know, but it sure doesn't make it any easier to carry knowing that!

This business of gittin' old ain't for the faint of heart or the pessimists! Anybody had the shots? How'd they work for you?

[MaryB]

Your ins co doesn't have the final say, you and your doctor do. If they get balky report them to your state insurance board and watch how fast they approve it.

[Brandi]

I've been dealing with herniated discs in my L4-L5, L5-S1 and now L3-L4 since I was in my mid 20's. That's been about 25 years now. Doc's said they had never seen a case so bad in someone so young in over forty years of practice. I've done it all...chiropractic, physical therapy, steroid injections, radiofrequency neurotomy, surgery (laminectomy, discectomy, and one other that I can't remember at the time). It's literally been a very, very, very long miserable existence. Currently I'm in a pain management program that I've been in for a total of about 5-6 years I think, maybe a bit longer. It's been the only thing that has worked with any degree of success but it's still far from being "good". So listen to your doc, tell them what works and what doesn't. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Always ask about their experience with a procedure they are recommending, you don't want to be a guinea pig for a new doc. Ensure your doc is qualified and listen to them. I've seen a lot of back patients who never got better because they just didn't do what they were told. Anywho, best of luck!!

That said, if I've learned anything, it's that there are no two cases the same so what one person experiences, good or bad, is likely not going to be the same for you. As for the steroid injections, I would say I found relief extremely quickly and it worked great but the problem was, in my case, it just didn't work great for very long. From what I was told, if it's going to work you will likely know pretty soon after having the procedure. My first spinal injection had me feeling great just a day or two afterwards but the pain was back within a week. The doc said that was the case with some folks and I'm just lucky like that. I'd say listen to your doc and do what he/she says because everyone is different.

Without going into a lot of unnecessary detail I will give everyone who's dealt with a chronic permanent issue like this some advice. Don't go all "I'm not filing for Social Security Disability because I can afford to pay my own medical bills and I'm not going to suck off the government teat yadda yadda yadda" on yourself. That's what I did and I ended up losing my job because of the bad back, spent all my money on medical bills, spent my entire retirement on medical bills and normal life bills, lost everything including my vehicle, ended up still in too bad of shape to work (not that any business will hire you with a bad back medical history) and finally ended up basically destitute.

When I finally lost everything and didn't have any money to live on, as in absolutely nothing, and no possibility for income, I went the Social Security Disability route. I was brought up to pay my own way and if I couldn't afford it then I didn't need it so that's what I did. After hiring a lawyer (one of those we only get paid when we win the case types) who was a very well know and highly recommended we jumped through all the hoops to get started. It took almost a year for them to just get to my application, then it took a year and a half wait to get to the court date. We went to court and all seemed good. After 3 months we got a letter saying they wanted another court date. That was almost another year and a half. Finally we did the second court date where I wasn't asked anything different than the first. After that another 3 months wait for the decision letter from the judge. His decision was that yes, he agreed I was permanently disabled and completely unable to work BUT....by his calculations I waited about a year too long before filing the original request for disability and because of that I was "INELIGIBLE" for qualification. So...he says there's no doubt I'm disabled and completely unable to work to make a living but his hands are tied because there's a time limit set by the government and there's nothing he could do about it.

I never heard about any time limit until I got involved with this whole thing but there is. Of course it didn't help that because they pay you from the time that you were first disabled to the time that you are filing in a lump sum and then start paying you a monthly check. In my case, because I waited so long before filing, that lump sum was going to be somewhere around $250,000 and a young federal disability court judge isn't going to get great reviews from his boss for approving that kind of a settlement.

So, for EVERYONE here that is disabled please learn from me and don't make the same mistakes I did. Trust me when I say it's a pretty horrible feeling to know that you will never have a paying job again, you won't have a single penny to your name, you won't be able to even own a car or have your own place to live and for the rest of your life you will have to depend on someone else to just exist. All that on top of the miserable pain you live with every day of your life from your medical issues. If I wasn't fortunate enough to have a sister who took me in and takes care of me I would have either died on the street or just ended it. It's still no picnic, it's a disgusting feeling to see someone else struggling financially because they have to take care of me.

My parents taught me to work for what I wanted and be responsible for myself. I did that, my father died when I was 13 leaving a single mom with four kids and we worked every job that came around even as kids. As an adult I worked hard. I worked every hour of overtime available and often worked 5 ten hour days, one 4 hour day and then off to a second job after I got off the first. All so I could afford the things I needed and occasionally the things I wanted. My work ethic was as strong as they come, I worked myself silly until I couldn't and after all that, this is where I am. So please don't think that services like SSDI are just government handouts for lazy people because at some point far down the road you may just end up in a bad enough physical condition that you can't work at all, permanently, and now you have nothing left to keep you afloat. Don't make the same mistakes I did because the government doesn't care about your situation. Be proactive, don't be me.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Anybody had the shots? How'd they work for you?

When the injections hit the proper target area, I did feel better. Less pain overall, and I didn't need to crutch off my pain meds quite so much. The injections that weren't really in the right place, I didn't get anything from them relief-wise. I'd certainly say yes to giving it the old college try. I would advise not to take a peek at the injection apparatus if you are squeamish though! The numbing agent administered before the cortisone is more discomforting than the actual injection and overall, quite tolerable.

[Blackwater]

Well, I had the injections today. Don't tell anybody, but I have a phobia of needles. Torture devices? No problem. But needles? Then I lose all my macho! But we got throgh it pretty well. Hurt some, but I've had worse. He poked around to find the bursa to put the shot in, and that was the biggest hurt. I'll try the shots, but I told the doc today that I wasn't too optimistic about their working well. He said it should progressively alleviate over the next 5 days, and hopefully, level off there. But even if I get back to "normal," or what serves for it now, I won't be running races any time soon, to say the least! I'm sure surgery is in my future. Sure wouldn't want to get the surgery done while the bursa is still full of inflamation/infection, though! That may be a factor in the surgeon's decision to do this first, too. This gittin' old ain't for sissies!

[MaryB]

Appeal that!!! There is NO time limit to apply, all you have to prove is you were working when the injury started and paying into social security http://www.nickortizlaw.com/is-there-a-statute-of-limitations-for-social-security-disability-claims/ You can't get back pay past 12 months but you ARE eligible for SSDI! At a minimum you should get SSI which is NOT tied to any earnings record.


I've been dealing with herniated discs in my L4-L5, L5-S1 and now L3-L4 since I was in my mid 20's. That's been about 25 years now. Doc's said they had never seen a case so bad in someone so young in over forty years of practice. I've done it all...chiropractic, physical therapy, steroid injections, radiofrequency neurotomy, surgery (laminectomy, discectomy, and one other that I can't remember at the time). It's literally been a very, very, very long miserable existence. Currently I'm in a pain management program that I've been in for a total of about 5-6 years I think, maybe a bit longer. It's been the only thing that has worked with any degree of success but it's still far from being "good". So listen to your doc, tell them what works and what doesn't. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Always ask about their experience with a procedure they are recommending, you don't want to be a guinea pig for a new doc. Ensure your doc is qualified and listen to them. I've seen a lot of back patients who never got better because they just didn't do what they were told. Anywho, best of luck!!

That said, if I've learned anything, it's that there are no two cases the same so what one person experiences, good or bad, is likely not going to be the same for you. As for the steroid injections, I would say I found relief extremely quickly and it worked great but the problem was, in my case, it just didn't work great for very long. From what I was told, if it's going to work you will likely know pretty soon after having the procedure. My first spinal injection had me feeling great just a day or two afterwards but the pain was back within a week. The doc said that was the case with some folks and I'm just lucky like that. I'd say listen to your doc and do what he/she says because everyone is different.

Without going into a lot of unnecessary detail I will give everyone who's dealt with a chronic permanent issue like this some advice. Don't go all "I'm not filing for Social Security Disability because I can afford to pay my own medical bills and I'm not going to suck off the government teat yadda yadda yadda" on yourself. That's what I did and I ended up losing my job because of the bad back, spent all my money on medical bills, spent my entire retirement on medical bills and normal life bills, lost everything including my vehicle, ended up still in too bad of shape to work (not that any business will hire you with a bad back medical history) and finally ended up basically destitute.

When I finally lost everything and didn't have any money to live on, as in absolutely nothing, and no possibility for income, I went the Social Security Disability route. I was brought up to pay my own way and if I couldn't afford it then I didn't need it so that's what I did. After hiring a lawyer (one of those we only get paid when we win the case types) who was a very well know and highly recommended we jumped through all the hoops to get started. It took almost a year for them to just get to my application, then it took a year and a half wait to get to the court date. We went to court and all seemed good. After 3 months we got a letter saying they wanted another court date. That was almost another year and a half. Finally we did the second court date where I wasn't asked anything different than the first. After that another 3 months wait for the decision letter from the judge. His decision was that yes, he agreed I was permanently disabled and completely unable to work BUT....by his calculations I waited about a year too long before filing the original request for disability and because of that I was "INELIGIBLE" for qualification. So...he says there's no doubt I'm disabled and completely unable to work to make a living but his hands are tied because there's a time limit set by the government and there's nothing he could do about it.

I never heard about any time limit until I got involved with this whole thing but there is. Of course it didn't help that because they pay you from the time that you were first disabled to the time that you are filing in a lump sum and then start paying you a monthly check. In my case, because I waited so long before filing, that lump sum was going to be somewhere around $250,000 and a young federal disability court judge isn't going to get great reviews from his boss for approving that kind of a settlement.

So, for EVERYONE here that is disabled please learn from me and don't make the same mistakes I did. Trust me when I say it's a pretty horrible feeling to know that you will never have a paying job again, you won't have a single penny to your name, you won't be able to even own a car or have your own place to live and for the rest of your life you will have to depend on someone else to just exist. All that on top of the miserable pain you live with every day of your life from your medical issues. If I wasn't fortunate enough to have a sister who took me in and takes care of me I would have either died on the street or just ended it. It's still no picnic, it's a disgusting feeling to see someone else struggling financially because they have to take care of me.

My parents taught me to work for what I wanted and be responsible for myself. I did that, my father died when I was 13 leaving a single mom with four kids and we worked every job that came around even as kids. As an adult I worked hard. I worked every hour of overtime available and often worked 5 ten hour days, one 4 hour day and then off to a second job after I got off the first. All so I could afford the things I needed and occasionally the things I wanted. My work ethic was as strong as they come, I worked myself silly until I couldn't and after all that, this is where I am. So please don't think that services like SSDI are just government handouts for lazy people because at some point far down the road you may just end up in a bad enough physical condition that you can't work at all, permanently, and now you have nothing left to keep you afloat. Don't make the same mistakes I did because the government doesn't care about your situation. Be proactive, don't be me.

[MaryB]

Needles don't bother me, I watched them stick a 8" long large bore needle in from the front up under the collar bone to get a dye injection into the shoulder space for an MRI.



Well, I had the injections today. Don't tell anybody, but I have a phobia of needles. Torture devices? No problem. But needles? Then I lose all my macho! But we got throgh it pretty well. Hurt some, but I've had worse. He poked around to find the bursa to put the shot in, and that was the biggest hurt. I'll try the shots, but I told the doc today that I wasn't too optimistic about their working well. He said it should progressively alleviate over the next 5 days, and hopefully, level off there. But even if I get back to "normal," or what serves for it now, I won't be running races any time soon, to say the least! I'm sure surgery is in my future. Sure wouldn't want to get the surgery done while the bursa is still full of inflamation/infection, though! That may be a factor in the surgeon's decision to do this first, too. This gittin' old ain't for sissies!

[Blackwater]

You're more of a man than I am, then, Mary! ;-) I guess everybody's got some kind of chink in their armor - some soft spot where they're weak? That's just mine, I guess. The shots are taking away much of the pain now, but I still walk kind'a funny. I'm pretty sure hip surgery is in my future, and part of me wants it so I can get out and about so much better, providing of course the surgery goes well, which is never assured, but it getting awfully good now. It's tough for a fella' who used to be a perpetual motion machine to deal with not being able to get out and about like I'll always want to, but my GP doc is now in a wheel chair, and says it's permanent now.

He's always been a near world-class runner, and health nut, and really great all around guy and doc, but he's got something that basically amounts to permanent vertigo. Saw him yesterday and he was just as cheerful as anyone you'd ever want to meet. He'd fallen twice in the prior week, and dislocated one of his fingers, and cracked a couple of ribs, but was still cheerful. Like me, he's looking at it like the wheelchair is proof that he's still here and in the game and making significant contributions. He had to stand to give me the shots, and had to have two pretty strong nurses to help watch that he didn't fall again to do it. He's got great touch skills, even with the vertigo, and did the shots as good as probably could be expected.

He's a real profile in courage and faith, and I'm very glad he's my GP. He looks at his patients as someone he can probably help, not as dollar signs or a "burden" he has to carry. Not that many docs like him left, it seems. Cynicism and pessimism are just not in his heart or vocabulary. He's a real trooper, and an inspiration to many of his patients I'm sure.

We'll see where it all leads. Gary, my doc, is always in my prayers, and I'm sure I and all his other patients are always in his. It really doesn't get much better than that.