Which mags for a Sub2000?

[Tackleberry41]

Local shop has had one in the case for a while, usually move pretty quick, being 40 cal probably kept plenty away. My 8yo likes it as its not very heavy and a bit more ooomph than his cricket rifle. I know from my Mechtech upper that 40s get a considerable boost in power out of that 16in barrel.

They seem to come 2 ways either they use glock mags, or they use several others. This one comes w the Beretta mag catch, but can easily buy a catch for S&W, and Sig mags. I know Sig thinks their mags are made out of moon rocks so only economical ones are aftermarket. I have no mags for this never having owned a Beretta, so wide open on which way to go. Am I better off w M&P series mags, Beretta 96 mags, or aftermarket Sig mags?

I do have an old Beretta 92 mag I had left over from the marines that I ground new holes in and got to work in my Browning HP. So would imagine I could mod others. What cheap and easy to find mags should I be looking for on my next trip to the gun show? Preferably ones that can be gotten in higher capacities. And how well do 9mm mags work in a 40?

[bpatterson84]

I'd hold out for a 9mm in Glock format, but if I was stuck on .40, I'd still go Glock. More/cheaper/better mags are available. High capacity is also available.

[dkf]

I agree with getting the Glock version. The Glock mags work well. I like the Glock 22rd .40 mags, which I often add the +2 Glock base plate to. Other companies make Glock magazines too. I have seen new Glock mags on sale for $22 this a month or so ago. You can also get used mags for around half of what new mags costs.

[Artful]

The lips on the Beretta 96 .40 mag tapered from 0.345" to 0.418"
on the M9 9mmmag, they tapered from 0.354" to 0.380"

.40 mags are a bit longer, however they do have a thicker base plate on them. 92 mag's hold only 11 rounds of .40 S&W ammo.

Mag thickness between the two were about the same (w/in 0.003") they both dropped free and locked the slide back regardless of which slide was installed.

Some 92 mags work just fine - a few seem to have issues in the 96 not wanting to feed 100%.

[EMC45]

I have the Sub2K in .40 and the kids love it. Glock mags.

[Digger]

I agree with getting the Glock version. The Glock mags work well. I like the Glock 22rd .40 mags, which I often add the +2 Glock base plate to. Other companies make Glock magazines too. I have seen new Glock mags on sale for $22 this a month or so ago. You can also get used mags for around half of what new mags costs.

A big 10-4 on that .... also have a 40 version in glock , picked up two of the aftermarket 22rd mags and it is a lot of fun !.
keep everything in a backpack , go to the range , people see me pull out the keltec and unfold ... been accused of being a James Bond fan.
Been using Miha's 135 gr hp in it and it has proved accurate , very enjoyable.

[Tackleberry41]

The glock version is not going to happen, this is the only one the shop has or has had in a while. I have not seen ANY of these at recent gun shows. So its this one or not have one. My son likes it, the mags are not a huge issue. I do not own a glock where I would have mags, nor M&P, or Sig so will have to buy mags no matter what. Was just trying to find out if one mag format was better than the others, price and availability.

The old military 92 mag goes in it fine. No idea how well it would work with 40, not like I paid for it, been in my bin for 30 yrs since I got out. If I can get the cheap surplus 92 mags to work, fine. Maybe file the feeds lips a little.

Seems the S&W M&P mags might be the way to go. The factory beretta 96 mags are only 11rds, mec gar can be had in 15rd, the pro mags are always questionable. The factory 40 cal M&P mags are 15 rds and easy to find, you can also get extended floor plates for them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tackleberry: STOP!!! Unless that gun is a Gen 2 Glock and they want less than $400 for it,,, stay away. There are plenty of them around if you know where to look. Also don't bother with a non Glock version as the magazine choices are too restricted and the resale value of non Glock Versions are much lower. Really!!!,,,, been there done this. The reason why that gun is still there is either because it is not a Glock version or it is priced too high. KT makes 98% of those guns for Glock Mags for a reason.

You really want the Glock magazine option as there are many Magazines available for the gun. I have 10,15,22,and 31 round mags for mine. The gun is pointless without a long mag in it.

There is one really good place to get these guns. B&H Gunrack in Florida. Google them! You will get a Glock version for MSRP. Not MSRP +++. They are one of the few places that doesn't gouge on Kel-Tec guns and they are located near the factory and get what ever they want. I got mine from them at Christmas right after Obana was reelected. It took 3 days for them to get the gun after I ordered it,,, on a Friday. $30 to ship it to my FFL in CA.

I would hate to see you not like the gun because of your mag choice and because you think this is the only gun available. IT ISN'T!

Call B&H and ask what they have, or can get.

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

I know where B&H gun rack is, shopped there many times, but they are now 13 hrs away. So a bit out of the way for a quick trip to see what they have. And if I was gonna order something, I will do it thru the local place, they charge all of 10% over dealer cost. I can buy guns cheaper thru this place than thru a friend who works in a gunshop.

I know everybody loves glock. But I would have to buy mags no matter what I do. I do not own a glock to have mags or a Beretta, or an M&P or a Sig. So which mag is really not an issue to me.

[EMC45]

I got mine for $250 OTD with a 30 round South Korean mag. My buddy at the pawnshop also had 3 15 round factory I traded him some ammo for. I went on to buy 3 more 30 round mags for it. The fun factor is present with these guns. I cast the Lee 175gr TC bullet unsized and Lee tumble lubed for it.

[Tackleberry41]

I have the NOE 200gr HP mold I use in my other 40s. But imagine the Sub 2000 will need to be throated like most everything else does.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tackle Berry: It is entirely your choice. All I wanted to do was to show you the best place to buy the guns, and try to convince you of the best version to buy. I live in CA and it is about a 4-5 day drive for me to go to Florida. Surprisingly the phone is much quicker, and they will send anything they sell to any FFL,,, anywhere.

The problem with your local guy is that he has to buy from a distributor, and those distributors seldom have very much in the way of Kel Tec guns in stock because Kel-Tec is not a big producer and the demand for their guns far outstrips the supply.

B&H is a Distributor for KT and they buy directly from the factory. Just call them and they will tell you what they have in stock, or how long it would take to get what you want. That way you can get whatever you want instead of taking something because it is the only one available to you locally. You can also get different colors than just black, and some are made to order for a few $ extra. You'll also pay a fair price from these guys as opposed to ?

Go here for more info on Sub 2000's http://www.thektog.org/forum/ Pretty much any and everything you could want to know about the guns.

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

Maybe B&H is easier to deal with over the phone. I grew up less than 30 min drive from B&H, they were an...ok place to shop. Typical large gun shop, very opinionated as to whats good and whats not, basically what they sell. Always steered you away from anything that had to be ordered. Place near me may not be very big, but have always been very fair, as I said, I can walk in off the street and get better deals than thru my friends employee discount. Will order anything I want. Didnt screw everybody over during the panic. It was an impulse thing, they had it, my son likes it. The mags are no big deal, never been overly fond of glock plastic mags. I dont own a glock, so am going to have to buy mags no matter what.

[Speedo66]

No European Glock? Why, that's un-American!

Love my 9mm S2K. Glock version, of course. lol

[Tackleberry41]

I had some glocks, just didnt like them. Yea they are the small block chevy of the pistol world. Just couldn't get past the grip angle compared to everything else I had. Friend of mine loves them, but thats all he has. And seems to avoid shooting anything else.

[Tackleberry41]

Finally got to pick it up. Shop asked "you want a mag" all they had was several promags, 1 and Ill try it. Well needless to say, it doesnt work. Odd since I could get a 9mm surplus mag to work. At first it was tearing up the side of the case on the edge of the chamber. Theres a feed ramp, but nothing more than a bevel on the actual chamber. I cut and polished a ramp in the barrel to line up with the one on the frame. That 9mm mag works fine, the promag still tears up the case and jams. So guess it goes back. Maybe they will exchange it and find one that works. .

[Combat Diver]

Check CDNN for mags.


CD

[EMC45]

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have had nothing but failures with Promag Magazines. They will never work for a Mini 14 and the one I have fails to feed the last round every single time I load it. Which is kind of bad,,, thus it has been permanently retired, but when I sell the gun it will go with it as it was the mag the gun came with, and it didn't work then either.

Also the Promags I had for my Para 16/40 didn't function reliably either. There was 4 of them and they all went down the road with the gun. Complete Junk!

S2K's generally aren't too picky about either magazines or ammo as far as reliability goes. Obviously the mag you have is bad but generally the gun will swallow pretty much anything it is fed as long as it resembles some kind of factory ammo.

My S2K .40 Glock has never mis-fed or malfunctioned, and it has only had my Reloads fired in it using X-Treme 165gr RNFP Plated bullets ran thru it.

Good luck with your gun, it is one of the most fun plinkers there is and you can burn up a lot of ammo with one, Especially when you learn to double tap every target!

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

I generally avoid promag. The local shop thats all they had, was 4 of the promags. I told him, Ill try it, took it back not long after my son got home from school. Makes you wonder how do they stay in business, seems like you would run out of customers. But century arms has managed to stay open. Guess some are willing to tweak the mags. I wasnt going to void the warranty on a new mag messing with it. No great loss if I messed up a 30 yo surplus mag I got for free.

It was odd I could get a 9mm mag to work, but not the promag. It did the same thing as the promag at first, jammed them into the edge of the chamber, big dent in the side of the case. But it really didnt have much of a feed ramp, just a bevel and a sharp edge. I filed it down a little, polished it, the 9mm mag is fine. The promag still jammed them up, the edge gone just didnt ruin the case as bad.

Im trying to figure out what wakes one mag different than the other. Both look exactly the same on the outside. The surplus mag is 15rd of 9mm, holds 11 of 40. The factory mag is 10rds. The spring in the factory is much longer, swapped em out, still only fit 10rds. Even the followers I swapped, didnt make any difference. Nor did it reduce the cap of the one mag.

Sure are alot of different mags for a 96 model. 10rd, 11rd, 13rd, 15rd. Weird the Mec Gar mags hold more ammo. Only higher cap mag sold for the 40 is promag. So bought a 30rd 9mm to try, supposed to be a factory mag. Will see I guess.

Messed with some reloads today, wanted to see if I could keep a round subsonic in that long barrel. A clays load I use w 180gr is subsonic, but questionable about cycling 100%. Min Unique load w a 200gr works. But a full power load you add 200fps easy to any load. That thing really needs something for that stock/buffer tube. Beats up your cheek trying to aim it. I have a red dot not being used, but needs a riser, hopefully will be a little better. Going to try messing with the trigger before I go spend money on any aftermarket parts, $29 seems a bit steep for 3 springs, and another $29 for a trigger.

[woodsxdragon]

I've got a gen 1 sub2k that takes s&w 9mm mags. I used promags and mecgars. Mecs worked feed great. The promags I was able to tinker with and they'd run ok. Biggest issue I have with mine is that it's super picky with ammo.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Meh.

Please
Remember
Our
Mags
Are
Garbage

Check around, several places locally are selling M9 mags dirt cheap, which to me means someone is wholesaling them cheap. Avoid Checkmate, though, I had no end of problems with them.

Mec-Gar has never done me wrong. They make the OEM mags for Sig, CZ, and several others.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tackleberry. There are a bunch of cheap things you can buy to make your gun a little more friendly. There is a Soft Rubber tube that goes on the buffer tube, and also a sleeve for the charging handle which makes it a lot better.

Both are from an outfit named "Tacticool." And we are talking $10-12 for both.

As far as the Red Dot Sight Mount, there are several ways to do it. if you want the gun to fold in half,,, (which is kind of a primary feature of the gun in the first place,) then you need to mount the sight off to the right side.

Here's some pics of mine which has the Kel Tec fore end added to it. Mine is a Gen 1 gun, you didn't say if yours was a Gen 1 or 2?

Also you should go over to the KTOG site http://www.thektog.org/forum/f85/ and any info you want on how to do anything to the gun,,, or where to buy anything for the gun,,, is there.

Randy

[Combat Diver]

Meh.

Please
Remember
Our
Mags
Are
Garbage

Check around, several places locally are selling M9 mags dirt cheap, which to me means someone is wholesaling them cheap. Avoid Checkmate, though, I had no end of problems with them.

Mec-Gar has never done me wrong. They make the OEM mags for Sig, CZ, and several others.

On the Checkmate just avoid the older ruff finish on the inside ones. Thats how the Army bean counters spec'd and decided to save money by having the same finished applied to the mag body. Newer ones with the smooth inside so sand isn't trapped are GTG. Been using them for over a decade in the box.

CD

[mcdaniel.mac]

On the Checkmate just avoid the older ruff finish on the inside ones. Thats how the Army bean counters spec'd and decided to save money by having the same finished applied to the mag body. Newer ones with the smooth inside so sand isn't trapped are GTG. Been using them for over a decade in the box.

CD
The ones I had came in brown paper and were marked 2008-2010 manufacture, and had bad feed lips. I've used ASC Colt SMG-pattern mags and Turkish import MP5 mags that had the rough finish. I usually brush them over with a brass brush and some CLP and they run okay. Eventually I want to experiment with getting a real smooth Polish on them and then having them melonited.

[Tackleberry41]

If it needs a cocking handle, I will just make one on the lathe.

I will just go with not being able to fold the thing completely. Its a gen 2 but the issue that comes up with mounting offset. Im a lefty, my son is a righty. It wont work for both. Just see how it works out.

The thing is brutal on your cheek....using the iron sights. If they were a little higher, you can get some meat between the bone and the tube. I bought 2 red dot risers, 1/2 might be same as the irons, next step up should make a difference.

I have learned my lesson with promag, gets real old wasting ammo tweaking them or finding out which ones work. I have 3 of the 15rd for a hi point, 2 work. Send them back maybe you get a working one, maybe not. Now if they were considerably cheaper be a different story. $10 for a promag and it doesnt work not such a big deal as $25.

[Speedo66]

If it needs a cocking handle, I will just make one on the lathe.
The thing is brutal on your cheek....using the iron sights. If they were a little higher, you can get some meat between the bone and the tube. I bought 2 red dot risers, 1/2 might be same as the irons, next step up should make a difference.


The rubber tube cover from Tacticool will help with the face impact. Also a lot nicer when it's cold. No need to buy or make the operating handle cover, a piece of rubber tubing slipped over it works fine. They mention a buffer, but I haven't tried it. Here's their site: http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/sub-2000bolttubecover/

[W.R.Buchanan]

The problem with their Buffers they don't allow full bolt travel so You can't lock the bolt open. The gun will still run just fine you just can't lock the bolt open.

The Buffer tube cover is a no brainer. it really makes the gun more friendly to shoot. the charging handle cover is no big deal and I think they are about $2, but it does make the gun easier to rack the bolt..

If you are trying for a left/ right solution to the red dot mounting the only way to go is on top, and if you try to take it off and put it back on it won't repeat. I was working on a "Flip to the Side Mount" that would position the sight on top and allow you to fold the gun, but I decided to just hang mine on the side. It works good that way and I can still use my Iron sights as well.

The gun really needs the Red Dot on it, as Target Acquisition Speed with one of these guns is one of the most critical parts. Being able to move from target to target and get hits is what the gun is all about. The original idea behind the gun was so that LE could have a carbine that used the same mags and ammo as their duty guns. It worked well for that, but was not that well received, now there are 100 times more of them in Civilian Hands and the cops have M16's and M4's so they don't need them anymore.

However it is one of Kel-Tec's best selling guns and especially right now when there are so many States that are trying to shut down any kind of tactical weapons. they will be selling a bunch before the election and everyone better stock if Hildegard gets in she'll be knocking on your doors looking to confiscate everything you own. Best to have lots of guns and ammo hidden before that happens.

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

It wont fold, no big deal, I will take that trade for being easier to aim. I have a laptop bag it still fits in fine. Im not real sure who they used to design the sights. One would think somewhere along the line somebody would have said 'you know if these were 1/4 in higher it would make a world of difference'.

Being able to lock the bolt is an important feature, I dont think the recoil is that bad. I have some cream puff loads that dont recoil much anyways.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I hear guys whining about the recoil on even the 9mm versions but I have dismissed them all as Wusses. These guns just don't kick hardly at all, and I don't see the problem.

Just don't feed the thing a steady diet of Hot .40's as it will break the hinge eventually. They will run normal .40 S&W ammo just fine but + P is not a good idea for extended use.

The sights are what they are and yours has the new versions. The Gen One sights were real **** and it opened the door for an outfit named Red Lion to make a replacement which is pretty good. See pic.

There is also a replacement rear sight made by a guy on Gunbroker. His info is on the KTOG site as well. Unfortunately both of these are the same height as the stock sights they are just made from metal.

Randy

[Tackleberry41]

The factory sights are just a little to low. You gotta get the bone of your cheek on that tube to use em, little higher and you can get some meat in there and its fine. its not that the recoil is bad, its just your bone on that metal.

Had mine apart today, messing with the trigger. Thought for sure I would have to order another sear spring, it was booby trapped. Fiddle with something else, bing across the garage. But got lucky and managed to find it.

[Tackleberry41]

Well my new mags showed up jut before we left. An unmodifed 30 9mm mag worked fine in the 40 cal. Tho loading it has been an issue. It would only take 15rds at first, wouldn't even take 30 9mm. But it will hold 20 40 so far. Will have to get a couple more.