Copper "Brass"

[galiho]

My brother & I have reloaded ammunition for many years (over 50). Recently, we bought two gallons of brass at a yardsale. It was primarily 38 Special, which is what we were after. However, we found misce in with it more than 800 rounds of 38 S&W, with 500 of them being new primed "brass". The reason I put "Brass" in quatation marks is because these appear to be mad of solid COPPER, not brass. We had never seen copper "brass". We are wondering is someone out there has experience reloading it, if it is in fact reloadable, and what the pitfalls, if any might be.
Thanks. Galiho

[Mk42gunner]

Welcome aboard.

What does the headstamp of the .38S&W brass (copper) say? I haven't heard of any copper cased rounds since the late nineteenth century, when the whole world was trying to figure out self contained cartridges.

As far as I know, copper cases tend to stick in hot chambers due to less springback than brass. The Custer debacle comes to mind.

Maybe take a sample to your local scrapyard to have it identified?

Robert

[runfiverun]

they were making some copper cases later than the start of the 1900's.
I have a pile of copper 22lr cases that are factory new unprimed they are from the 50's or so.

if you do have copper cases I probably wouldn't mess with them unless I really needed some cases [as in a dire emergency]

[Outpost75]

Copper cases were used in making Winchester .38 S&W black powder blank ammunition as an identification feature. These were used both for movie and theatrical purposes, as well as for power loads for construction and mining equipment.

[trails4u]

If they've been cleaned, don't rule out the possibility that they've been in contact with a heavy dose of some acid or another. Long exposure to some acids will strip some of the zinc out of the brass, leaving it with a 'copper' color. H2so4 will do it, heck...even vinegar will do it if you leave it in there long enough.

[Outpost75]

My brother & I have reloaded ammunition for many years (over 50). Recently, we bought two gallons of brass at a yardsale. It was primarily 38 Special, which is what we were after. However, we found misce in with it more than 800 rounds of 38 S&W, with 500 of them being new primed "brass". The reason I put "Brass" in quatation marks is because these appear to be mad of solid COPPER, not brass. We had never seen copper "brass". We are wondering is someone out there has experience reloading it, if it is in fact reloadable, and what the pitfalls, if any might be.
Thanks. Galiho

No problem reloading it with standard pressure .38 S&W loads. Flash hole is probably oversized, as is common with blank ammo. OK to load 2 grains of Bullseye and 148-grain HBWC bullet seated out long to 1.20" overall cartridge length and crimped in top lube groove, rather than crimp groove. Velocity about 600 fps from typical old top-break revolvers.

[17nut]

Start by testing them with a magnet!
Many steel cases are/was copper washed to deter rusting.

If so then load and shoot once then discard.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

galiho,
welcome to the forum.
I've never heard of copper cases...and I probably wouldn't have believed you, if it weren't for the posts from a couple of our smartest and most experienced casters/reloaders.

I've love to see a photo of them, in good light, to best show the correct color. If they were mine, I probably wouldn't load them, I'd probably save them as a conversation piece, or swap them for something more correct for modern reloading.
Good Luck.

[Outpost75]

There were some empty primed Winchester .38 S&W Copper cases for sale recently on GunBroker and the factory packaging identified them as copper cases. These were packaged in the yellow and blue boxes common in the post WW2 era prior to about 1970. From what I could see in the photographs they had large flash holes of about 1/8", which are commonly used with blank and industrial power load cases. I checked GunBroker, but could find no current listing, the ones I saw were for sale within the last 6 months.

[.22-10-45]

Take a file, or knife blade & cut through the surface. I bought a bag of .38 S&W brass at a gunshow that was copper colored..but only a very thin wash over the regular brass. If those are only plated..they would look real authentic in a gunbelt matched with a Colt conversion revolver..right time period for both.

[Battis]

I recently got these copper .45-70 rounds that are head stamped "F 87". Apparently the government stopped using copper for cases in 1888, when they started using tinned brass.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/ammo2_zpsaohqeyo0.jpg

[17nut]

If they are indeed dirt old then the primers might very well be corrosive!

[big bore 99]

I've only seen copper cases in some 22 BB caps. They were loaded with a round ball and had an acorn on the back. I believe they came from Germany.

[John Boy]

...we found misce in with it more than 800 rounds of 38 S&W, with 500 of them being new primed "brass". The reason I put "Brass" in quotation marks is because these appear to be mad of solid COPPER, not brass.What are the head stamps on these cases? Picture would be nice also

[jsizemore]

I've got 47 primed copper cases of 38 S&W R-P in the plastic holder in a red Remington Components box with no end flaps that usually had manufacturing info. The Remington logo is in a white triangle and Components in a green triangle. Dupont's logo is on the back. Maybe another member can date this. Also on the back is the mention of Kleanbore primers.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've got 47 primed copper cases of 38 S&W R-P in the plastic holder in a red Remington Components box with no end flaps that usually had manufacturing info. The Remington logo is in a white triangle and Components in a green triangle. Dupont's logo is on the back. Maybe another member can date this. Also on the back is the mention of Kleanbore primers.


Copper-washed steel or acid cleaning does seem likely. Copper is more expensive than zinc, and I think the .38 Special was developed when brass cases were usual. Some kind of war emergency production seems possible - and the civilian market can have war emergencies too, when strategic materials are in limited supply. It may well be old enough to be corrosive primed.


I think the Little Bighorn extraction problem was due as much to the design of the balloon head case, and perhaps the extractor. But it wasn't the decisive factor some claim. Only about 2% of the Springfield cases found on the battlefield show evidence of extraction difficulties.

[jsizemore]

Cases have zero reaction to magnets. I always thought kleanbore primers were/are non corrosive.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Cases have zero reaction to magnets. I always thought kleanbore primers were/are non corrosive.

Indeed they are, but the OP's may not be.

[Fishman]

"Only about 2% of the Springfield cases found on the battlefield show evidence of extraction difficulties."

Maybe the rest of the problem brass were still stuck in the troopers' guns?

[jsizemore]

I went to the Dixie Gun and Knife show in Raleigh today. Small time dealer I traded with before had a small kid's pool full of reloading components for sale cheap, mostly shotgun. Got 1100 Winchester WAA12R wads for $20. I flipped a box over that had the Remington Components logo with 16ga wads. He said they came from the early to mid 1970s. I think I'm gonna send a case to Barry and get the XRF analysis to see exactly what I got.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

"Only about 2% of the Springfield cases found on the battlefield show evidence of extraction difficulties."

Maybe the rest of the problem brass were still stuck in the troopers' guns?

An obvious possibility. But if it was less than several times the number that had at least one sticking round extracted, that wasn't what lost the battle as some have claimed.

[jsizemore]

I just got the XRF results from BNE about my copper "brass" case. 100% copper. I tried to stick case in 2 S&W revolvers and contender 357 mag barrel to fire the primer. No go. 38 S&W is spec'd at .380 (according to my Speer manual) but wouldn't fit my 38/357's. Mic'ed at .3847". Sized in my RCBS carbide die still didn't get the base small enough to chamber. Appears my "brass" is good for shooting the breeze.

Never did hear from the OP about a sample for comparison.